Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:April:20 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2007/4/20-21 [Reference/Military] UID:46380 Activity:low
4/19    Kind of nice to see the level of detail in the second amendment
        discussion. Thanks to all who contributed. Makes me feel
        hopeful for democracy and the better angels of our nature.
        \_ In US the there can never be a gun control because that is
           the way the society has developed. You and me and many
           others understands the invalidity of the second amendment
           but to make it through the head of these lunatics will take
           ages or may be many such tragedies. What irks me most where
           is the PROPER BACK GROUND CHECK. If they had a process of
           checking the back ground thoroughly then any person with
           little sense would have known that this guy does not deserve
           to have even a spoon in his hand, forget a gun. There is no
           shortage of resources to dig out every bit of information of
           a gun holder and YES if a person wants to have a gun they
           cannot argue for the right to privacy. Nobody should be able
           to go to a store and buy a gun, the people who are
           interested to possess a gun should enroll themselves and a
           thorough check should be done and even then I am sure
           incidents will happen but may reduce a lot.  The general
           apathy to everything which is not your own among the people
           of this country has to change. This guy was crying out loud
           that he needed help and yet not enough was done to really
           help him. His parents were ignorant so they could not fathom
           the extend of his cruel mind but what about the rest of the
           society?  This general lack of compassion among the people
           of this country often makes us (I mean my family) wonder
           whether we should continue to live in this country or go
           back to our own land. This rush, always to do something or
           get something done all the time where nobody has time to
           look around and reach out for others is really missing.  You
           know we have a guy from certain country in our research
           lab. Believe me nobody talks to him, nobody asks him for
           lunch out, he comes and goes at his own time mostly avoiding
           the vibrant time in the lab. Last Christmas I remember him
           telling me that he is feeling very lonely because the only
           thing he would be doing during the holidays is work. I felt
           bad for him then but I did not really call him to my place
           even though I had several get togethers. This tendency of us
           to be always with the Best and seen around with the Best has
           made us forget that we should not leave anybody behind.  I
           am sorry for this long note but someway I was unburdening my self.
          \_ In US the there can never be a abolition because that is the
             way society has developed...
             But, really, OP, you were really asking for it by congratulating
             the motd crowd on civility and sense.
             \_ It is kind of tough to respond to you, especially with
                this kind of a format. But as I could understand from
                your response, you are of the opinion that we are in
                need of sophisticated weapons to defend
                ourselves. When you carry that argument too far, ther
                only way we can be safe is if we barricade our homes,
                lay mines outside, arm ourselves with rocket launchers
                and machine guns, because we can be invaded anytime.
                And I agree, that notion would not be too absurd, but
                that is exactly why we humans organized as a society
                and founded cities and eventually countries, so that
                they could get on with life and hand off their
                security to a professional military and police force
                funded by part of what they earn (as tax). If you feel
                that the government you elected cannot fulfil the duty
                assigned to them of protecting your life and property,
                it is then probably time for you to think about
                changing the government.
                If you do not empower that regulating force to control
                the possession of items which are beyond the reason of
                self-defence, then I guess it is kind of tough to
                entrust anyone with any job. I am not going to take
                the argument much further, seeing that you have a view
                that is completely orthogonal to mine and one that is
                kind of tough for me to comprehend.
                I see securing people as a job that we let someone
                else do. I pay people to write software for me, I pay
                people to protect me. Yes, I could do it all myself,
                but then I would not be able to do things that I am
                good at. I say this in the context of your argument
                that students should and would be well trained in the
                responsible use of these weapons. Contrary to what you
                might believe, military school might not be the best
                place to be.
                I refuse to fire a gun, and in your world, I would not
                survive too many days, maybe mothers are a breed that
                is undesirable in that scheme of things.
2007/4/20-21 [Uncategorized] UID:46381 Activity:nil
4/19    Where is the wall_log?
        \_ As of yesterday, I think everything is back where it used to be:
           the current week's logs are in /var/log/wall.log*, and older ones
           get archived in /csua/lib/wall.  --mconst
           \_ Thanks mconst!
2007/4/20-24 [Recreation/Media] UID:46382 Activity:nil
4/20    Darth Vader Hot Air Ballon:
        http://www.darthvaderballoon.be/en/index.html
        \- ObThisBattleBalloonIsNowFullyOperational
2007/4/20-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:46383 Activity:nil
4/20    Double your gas milage by adding pure acetone to your gas?
        http://urltea.com/ehy (techeblog.com)
        \_ I can't watch the video on my linux box at work.  What does it show?
           That acetone doesn't increase your gas milage, but does melt your
           paint and seals?
           \_ Well the video claims that if you add acetone to your gas you
              can double your gas milage
              \_ Ah.  I've seen this debunked a few places, and acetone will
                 melt rubber, so I'd be careful with it.  Try it out and tell
                 me how it goes.
                 \_ Mythbusters busted this one.
        \_ Yes and did you know if you inject cocaine in a horse it'll ALWAYS
           win the race? Of course you can only do this once per its lifetime.
2007/4/20-24 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46384 Activity:nil
4/20    Yee-haw! 25 murder-free years in 'Gun Town USA'
        http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288
        \_ There are a cases in Africa where certain people with certain
           genes are immune to AIDS/HIV infections. This example proves
           that there is no correlation between HIV and infections!!!
           PS. Sarcasm tone used above, in case you don't "get it"
        \_ Wikipedia, which is arguably more accurate in the long run than
           WND, on the same town:
           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia
2007/4/20-24 [Reference/Military] UID:46385 Activity:moderate
4/20    Penn & Teller on 2nd Amendment
        http://www.washingtonceasefire.com/content/view/47/45
        \_ Glenn Beck will be talking about gun control tonight on HNN, and
           Penn will be on.
        \_ Its a cute argument and fairly well presented, but every gun
           control advocate would argue that taking guns away from everyone
           will decrease gun posession percentage all around.  They say that
           criminals will get guns regardless, while that may be true, making
           supply illegal would severely limit the availibility. One could see
           parallels between this and drug laws.  Making supply (of any sort)
           illegal makes prosecution and enforcement much easier.  Not that
           I support all drug policy, just using its effects as an example.
           -mrauser
           \_ I'm sorry but the right to bear arms was not penned to
              wage war against furry creatures, it was to defend the
              person against militia men and any standing army (foreign
              and domestic)
              \_ And you feel that having a handgun will protect you against
                 a tank, cruise missles, and f14 planes?  You have no ability
                 to protect yourself against a military.  If thats really
                 what you want you should be lobbying for the ability for
                 citizens to purchase tanks (should they have the money).  A
                 citizen militia is never going to face a modern army.-mrauser
                 \_ no. but those soldiers wont be coming back home to loved
                    ones. it's not like the army would be fighting a war
                    in a foriegn country.. they have to come back and live
                    with the people they killed..
                    ... so the best resistance is destroy the homes and
                    business of those in the military trying to destroy our
                    freedom. If they use F15s , tanks they run the risk
                    of killing their own family members..
                    \_ it's much more likely that you'd have more localized
                       conflict (more like the Civil War) where this would
                       not be much of an issue for the fed military. A bunch
                       of yahoos with civilian guns is pretty much going to
                       get "pwned", even by just normal infantry. A terrorist
                       campaign is also not going to have much effect; by
                       nature it would be limited in scope and lose the
                       propaganda war. Either the gov't wins or you get some
                       form of anarchy. In any case it's unclear that handguns
                       are needed for this.
                       \_ the gov't loses and the US Constitution will be
                        restored (i guess libs call that anarchy)
                        There is no propaganda war to win.. it would be
                        a fight for freedom...
                        \_ Hahahahahahaha. Everyone loved that guy who
                           bombed the OK building right?
                       \_ Tell the Iraqis this.
                          \_ Why?
                       \_ how many Millions died in the civil war?
                        Besides , this time the south will be on the side
                        of the Pro gunners because they love their guns
                          \_ What?
                 \_ THat's what the redcoats thought.  Of course, no one in a
                    tank would ever sympathize with a revolutionary.
                    \_ And there again is a fine argument for not bothering to
                       let the citizenry own guns.
                        \_ perhaps u prefer to stand next to a ditch and
                         get gunned down? Wait a minute!! you want to be
                         the one that guns down pro gunners and conservatives!
                         that's what this is all really about...
                         only way liberals can win is to take away all the
                         guns.. get control of the army and then kill off
                         all the conservatives... that's your plan.. we know..
                 \_ the 2nd amendment describes the state govt fighting against
                    the federal government.  i concede the federal government
                    probably has control of launch codes and can nuke a state,
                    but i feel stupid for participating in this discussion.
              \_ I think everyone should be allowed to have a gun as long
                 as they regularily fire it against representatives of
                 the goverment.
2007/4/20-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:46386 Activity:nil
4/20    Offensive Chinese translation results in another stupid lawsuit.
        http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/04/19/canada.couch.ap/index.html
        \_ So what kind of dark shade of brown is "nigger brown"? They
           never explained it further in the article.
2007/4/20-24 [Science/GlobalWarming, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:46387 Activity:nil
4/20    Is there some reason why the apache logs are not world readable?
        \_ Because what other people are surfing is no one's business?
           \_ They used to be world readable.  Among other things, this was
              useful because it allowed users to view the error log so they
              could debug cgi scripts. -dans
              \_ The undergrads surely made a conscious and well thought out
                 decision to do things this way. Why don't you make a
                 constructive suggestion instead of whining that things are
                 done differently than they were in your day.
2007/4/20-24 [Reference/Military] UID:46388 Activity:nil
4/20    Bad numbers on both sides of the gun debate. -emarkp
        http://csua.org/u/iio
        \_ Hey, great, we have a lower gun death rate than El Salvador and
           Albania!  Good thing we have all those guns for self-defense! -tom
           \_ I think a more informative way to look at gun deaths in the US
              is to treat suburbs, for instance, differently from gang-infested
              inner cities.  Generally if you leave the inner cities, gun rates
              in the US are comparable to Europe.  It is true that gangs and
              inner cities are a big problem in the states, but I don't think
              the cultural issues involve are mainly (or at all) caused by guns.
           \_ If only we could live in a soft-gloved police state like the UK
              all would be well!
              \_ Woo Hoo!  USA!  USA!  USA!  New national slogan: "It's better
                 than civil war"  -tom
2007/4/20-24 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:46389 Activity:nil
4/20    Why cars suck, reason #48:
        http://sfgate.com/columnists/lloyd
        \_ Hello libUral!
           \_ Hello moron(z - haven't read the article, OP may be a moron too).
        \_ Yeah, I really liked living in "mixed-use" areas in Korea.  I
           never really understood why Americans wanted to like in giant
           residential areas.  Boring.  -jrleek
           \_ Americans like a lot of space so they can load up their
              big SUVs with tons of supplies they buy from Costco.
              They need a lot of space to park their big SUVs. And
              finally they need a lot of space so they can listen to
              hip-hop without their neighbors complaining. Why live in
              the dirty, crammed noisy city when you can have exquisite
              country living?
              \_ The city is also fucking expensive, unless it's a shitty
                 slummy area full of violent people.
        \_ People with long journeys to and from work are systematically worse
           off and report significantly lower subjective well-being,. Stutzer
           told me. According to the economic concept of equilibrium, people
           will move or change jobs to make up for imbalances in compensation.
           Commute time should be offset by higher pay or lower living costs,
           or a better standard of living. It is this last category that people
           apparently have trouble measuring. They tend to overvalue the
           material fruits of their commute.money, house, prestige.and to
           undervalue what they.re giving up: sleep, exercise, fun.
           http://www.csua.org/u/ij3 (New Yorker)
2007/4/20-24 [Uncategorized] UID:46390 Activity:nil
4/20    A whole Green section in today's SF Chronicle:
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/living/green/main
2007/4/20-24 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:46391 Activity:kinda low
4/20    Any Toyota hybrid owners here?  What's the real-world gas mileage that
        you're getting (not the advertised one) for
        Highlander hybrid:
        Camry hybrid:
        Prius: 47.5 (80% highway, 20% local)
        (On a related note the gas mileage reported on the Multi-Function
        Display on my 2004 Sienna (not a hybrid, obviously) is consistently
        2-3mpg higher than my hand-calculated value.)
        \_ Hybrids are stupid, clean diesel is where it's at. Diesel gives
           great mileage in all driving patterns and doesn't require expensive
           heavy batteries.
           \_ Hybrid and diesel are not mutually exclusive technologies,
              stupid.
              \_ And? Shithead.
                 \_ Diesel hybrid will give better gas mileage than diesel-
                    only.
                    \_ Where do I buy that? Yes.
                       \_ I said "will".
                       \_ Europe.
2007/4/20-23 [Uncategorized] UID:46392 Activity:low
4/21    Instructions for achoi
        http://coffeepot.org/photos/sex.jpg
        \_ psb, you're achoi's bitch now?
        \_ tom, you're achoi's bitch now?
2007/4/20-24 [Recreation/Sports] UID:46393 Activity:nil
4/20    To soccer fans: what website do you read to keep up with world soccer
        news? I currently use FOX Soccer Channel (foxsoccer.com), but I'm
        wondering if there's better out there. Thanks.
2007/4/20-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:46394 Activity:nil
4/20    Here's someone's forum post with a story where his gun seems to have
        prevented violence.
        http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2439819
        \_ You mean, another story where a minor altercation could have
           turned deadly due to the presence of guns?
2007/4/20-24 [Health, Health/Sleeping] UID:46395 Activity:nil
4/20    http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3722.html
        Affluent *suburban* kids report 3X depression rates. I am not at
        all surprised. Suburbia->isolation->depression. I grew up in the
        cities and when I moved to the suburbs everyone in the family
        became isolated, depressed, gay and suicidal. I HATE SUBURBS.
                                                -intellectual urbanite
2007/4/20-24 [Uncategorized] UID:46396 Activity:nil
4/20    Welcome back ilyas! Where have you been?
        \_ Trying to graduate. -- ilyas
2007/4/20-24 [Uncategorized] UID:46397 Activity:nil
4/20   http://www.metacafe.com/watch/283497/jennifer_aniston_topless_on_the_beach
        Authentic Jennifer Aniston naked video. Is she on a diet? So bony...
        \_ Her implants aren't.
2007/4/20-24 [Politics/Domestic] UID:46398 Activity:nil
4/21    Latest sign that reality is becoming an Onion headline:
        "When you're president of the United States and you have this many
        folks that you are employing, it's a pretty small number that he's had
        to express full confidence in."
        --White House Deputy Press Secretary Dana Perino
        \- Bhutan to hold fake election:
           http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6578421.stm
2007/4/20-24 [Reference/Military] UID:46399 Activity:moderate
4/21    from all these postings on gun control.
        I agree that only 1 group of psychos who can't control
        themselves should not be allowed to own guns .. that group is..
        Critical Mass ... they are psychos..
        I think that's why some bicyclist on here are for gun control
        because they are psychos in themselves and can't control
        themselves, yet at the same time are elitist ... - duck
        \_ Lot of vested interest in keeping the gun lobby .both pro
           and cons say i have a middle instead of licensing/regulating
           why t we license bullets on a very strict basis, guns without
           bullets are a piece of metal, if we can regulate bullets, say
           one bullet only per gun only, wont that be a good control, gun
           makers , NRA will be happy, while killing will come down as
           bullets will be in short ..just a thought
           \_ ARMS = GUN + AMMO (BULLETS)
              \_ I am yet to hear a pro-gun argument that makes sense
                 except its fun (for deer hunters & man-child navy
                 seal worshippers) and its allowed by the
                 constitution. Anybody who thinks that an army
                 that breaches US defenses can be held back by the
                 militia must be watching too much of Military Raj and
                 Independence Day sort of movies.In the book
                 Freakonomics, the author argues that swimming pools
                 are more fatal than guns, drowning accidents being
                 more common statistically. Fair enough, but the key
                 difference I think is that it is difficult to drown
                 39 other people along with yourself.I am sure
                 mountaineering would be even more fatal but that is
                 hardly the issue, for the same reason of zero impact
                 on those who do not take the plunge. On the issue of
                 the sting of others having it better, unfortunately
                 it is part of the mental makeup of most people. We do
                 know of certain doctrines whose mass appeal kind of
                 rests on this instinct to pull down others rather
                 than uplift oneself. Mobs are built out of negative
                 energies and not positive intent. No one can be as
                 blind and devastating as a self righteous man as he
                 sees no wrong in his actions, has a unipolar
                 worldview and has taken uncertainty out of his life.
                 At least in the US this s views are treated as an
                 absurdity. In certain other countries, if this guy
                 reigns himself back a little bit, he can go
                 mainstream with his views if not his actions.
                 (Who????????????) that breaches US defenses can be
                 held back by the militia must be watching too much of
                 Military Raj and Independence Day sort of movies.In
                 the book Freakonomics, the author argues that
                 swimming pools are more fatal than guns ,drowning
                 accidents being more common statistically. Fair
                 enough, but the key difference I think is that it is
                 difficult to drown 39 other people along with
                 yourself.I am sure mountaineering would be even more
                 fatal but that is hardly the issue, for the same
                 reason of zero impact on those who do not take the
                 plunge. On the issue of the sting of others having it
                 better, unfortunately it is part of the mental makeup
                 of most people. We do know of certain doctrines whose
                 mass appeal kind of rests on this instinct to pull
                 down others rather than uplift oneself. Mobs are
                 built out of negative energies and not positive
                 intent. No one can be as blind and devastating as a
                 self righteous man as he sees no wrong in his
                 actions, has a unipolar worldview and has taken
                 uncertainty out of his life.

At least in the US this s views are treated as an absurdity. In
certain other countries, if this guy reigns himself back a little bit,
he can go mainstream with his views if not his actions.man
                 \_ No wonder people think that Stanford is better
                 \_ gungrabbers should look in the mirror
                    \_ "You talkin' to ME?"
                 \_ Militias are very powerful. Look at Iraq and Vietnam.
                    One not only has to conquer a country, but occupy it.
                    However, the primary entity you are protecting
                    yourself from is the US government. It is a powerful
                    deterrent to, say, a military coup when a substantial
                    portion of law abiding citizens own a weapon. I am
                    in favor of controls on handguns, but not rifles.
                    It is much harder to conceal a rifle.
                    \- are you referring to the NVA as a "militia"?
                       what does that make say al queda? a club?
                       \_ The Viet Cong. Al Qaeda is a terrorist
                          organization, but the Iraqi insurgency is
                          very much made up of former military organized
                          militia-style. Same with Afghanistan for that
                          matter.
                    \_ Militias are most powerful in the face of an absence
                       of a militarily strong, unified, and at least apparently
                       legitimate central government. When the central gov.
                       has a strong military and local/national support,
                       militias are usually either dispersed or marginalized to
                       the point of non-effectiveness. (Cf. Ruby Ridge, Waco.)
                       In Iraq, a lot of the same groups that get lumped in
                       with the insurgency spend a lot of time maintaining
                       order within their own local areas or repelling attacks
                       from other militias; there are a lot of folks more
                       divided by tribal affiliations than religious factions.
                       Also see:
                       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_insurgency
2017/09/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/25    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:April:20 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>