Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:March:13 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2007/3/13-14 [Uncategorized] UID:45946 Activity:nil
        Nice butt? ;-)
2007/3/13-17 [Reference/History, Reference/History/WW2] UID:45947 Activity:kinda low
3/13    A historical perspective on the '300':
        \_ Update - The Mercury News also had a nice graphic re the
           difference between the movie and reality:
        \_ Update - The Mercury News had a nice graphic yesterday
           re the difference between the movie and reality:
  ( [PDF]
           NOTE: I just think the differences are interesting; I
           don't mean to imply that the movie/comic was bad b/c it
           is not historical accurate.
           Those interested in the history might want to netflix/buy
           the PBS series "The Greeks: Crucible of Civilization":
        \_ Miller and fans on the comic:
           \- i thought it was kinda funny they bothered to get some details
              like the lambda on the spartan sheilds [for Lakedaimon, which
              is also what is used instad of Sparta in the famous couplet
              by Symonides], as well some matters with the long spear and
              the short sword, the storm that destroyed part of the fleet
              [although there some chronology and location issues there],
              but they put them in those creepy black briefs instead of armor.
              Was that a decision to appeal to women and gaylords or what?
              BTW, was the dood who loses an eye and then appears at the end
              at the Battle of Plataea supposed to be Pausanias or just
              some random? I also thought Leonidas' Scottish accent was
              hilarious. I was hoping Sean Connery would have made a cameo...
              maybe as Darius ... or as Xerxes ... they could have had a
              Highlander-style Immortal showdown. The also basically turned
              Ephialtes into Gollum ... he was a local, not a Spartan, and
              I cannot recall any mention that he was a hunchback. I was
              also disappointed with the famous well-scene.
                 \- except in sparta, if you didnt have enough $$$,
                    you lost your "right" to "hold the line" in battle,
                    where as in the us today, hardly any reasonably welloff
                    people are on the battle line. well i guess exept for
                    their slaves they dragged into battle and used for
                    fodder ... oh maybe we do have something in common with
                    the Lakedaimonians.
              \_ The movie is an adaptation of the comic book 300, not the
                 historical incident as recorded by Herodotus or Thucydides.
                 It is a very faithful adaptation of the comic, in much the
                 same way that Sin City was faithful. For the most part, it's
                 an excercise in style. Miller's a fascinating study in
                 both good and bad research, liberal and libertarian and
                 even conservative values, and the occasional good story.
                 Comparing 300 to the actual history is much like comparing
                 Hamlet to actual Danish history (with apologies to Mr.
                 Shakespeare re: comparing 300 to Hamlet). --erikred
                 \- you're making a rather obvious point. it's still an
                    interesting exercise to look at what is and what is
                    not accurate. just like it is reasonable to tell
                    somebody "there really is an elsinore (kronborg)
                    castle." also, in my opinion, there is a "yeah whatever"
                    type of hollywood license [like suggesting william
                    wallace slept with the queen of england ... something
                    nobody watching braveheart probably really believed],
                    and sort of "irresponsible revisionism" [like suggesting
                    the americans did the heavy lifting in breaking the
                    enigma cipher ... didnt u-571 suggest some such thing?].
                    this movie was so trivial, comments like "the spartans
                    championed freedom and reason against the despotic,
                    decadent persians, while the atheians didnt do anything
                    because they were busily engaged in juvenile gaylordism"
                    are more risble ["and we laughed and laughed"] than
                    offensive ... unless maybe you are an athenian or
                    iranian. how many people even realized that WAS
                    a lambda on the shield, and not just a chevron or
                    some other design.
                    \_ I'm pointing out that the lack of armor is due to there
                       not being armor on the characters in Miller's comic.
                       Ditto for elements of grotesquery. I enjoy the pointing
                       out of historical deviations as much as the next geek,
                       but I thought I'd point out that your quibbles are with
                       the comic the movie is based on, not some sort of
                       historical recreation on the part of the movie.
2007/3/13 [Recreation/Dating, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:45948 Activity:nil
3/13    MOTD poll, should I delete all my porn or not
        I will abide by the opinion of the majority by the end of the day.
        Yes: ...................................
        \_ That was a lot of voters for so early in the morning.
           \_ You throw yourself at the mercy of the motd, you take your
Here's what I am thinking of deleting
./Monsters of cock - Gianna the nympho.wmv
./Monsters of cock - hot russian chick and preston.wmv
./Best Blow Job In The World+Big Willys - Massive Cock Deepthroat Blowjob.mpg
./ bignaturals Big Naturals Jerri Monet Feb 2007.wmv
./Jerri Monet youtube clip #1 March 2007.flv
./Jerri Monet youtube clip #2 March 2007.flv
./Bea Flora - Ride me - full movie.mpeg
./Monsters Of Cock - Paloma.wmv
./Monsters Of Cock - Wendy.wmv
./Overdeveloped Amateurs March 2007 ODA update - tina32EE.mpg
./Overdeveloped Amateurs March 2007 ODA update - natasha34DDD.mpg
2007/3/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:45949 Activity:nil
3/13    OpenBSD 4.1 preorder is up:
2007/3/13-14 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:45950 Activity:nil
3/13    OpenSSH 4.6 is out:
        Portable Version:
        OpenBSD Version:
2007/3/13-14 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:45951 Activity:nil
3/13    Anyways to improve our current spam assassin?
2007/3/13-17 [Industry/Jobs] UID:45952 Activity:low
3/13    Slide is hiring!  See:
        for details.  We have smart people.  We have plans for total world
        domination including orbital lasers and robot monkey armies.  We
        have interesting problems.  Email me if interested. -dans
        \_ Are the orbital lasers mounted on sharks?
           \_ No, the sharks kept exploding in a vacuum, and they kept
              eviscerating the handlers when we tried to put them into
              spacesuits so we had to scrub that plan. -dans
                \_ I'll suit up yer sharks.. fer a million bucks
                   \_ We're pretty flush, but, given that this isn't key to
                      our world domination plans, this would be a poor use of
                      a million bucks.  That said, we do pay well for
                      developers. -dans
                      \_ There's no way this is going to work until you solve
                         the exploding shark problem.  Sorry.  I think you guys
                         can do it though.
                         \_ A valid point, but don't hold your breath.  It's
                            just not that high on our priority list. -dans
                            \_ Your interest in sharks actually reveals
                               something about your personality.  Since you
                               are afraid of being outed by my diagnosis,
                               I wont elaborate.  Are you planning to
                               provide the JPG of your hand?
                               -Soda's Board Certified Shrink
                            \_ No sharks?  Doooooooomed!  Everyone just *knows*
                               you can't have lasers without sharks.
        \_ Hey who wiped out the discussion of world domination plans and
           flaming? -dans
2007/3/13-17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45953 Activity:moderate
3/13    Victor Hanson loves '300', unsurprisingly:
        I still don't think the Spartans were that 'free',
        perhaps driven, disciplined, manly, into men,
        very manly manly manly, but 'free'?  nah.
        \_ I thoroughly enjoyed the movie and still agree with you. It was a
           Spartan tale told by a Spartan to Spartans.
           \_ Yeah I find the movie fun on a gruesome, fun, manly
              men doing manly things level.  People who read deep
              political themes into the movie make me sad.
        \_ Gayest. Movie. Ever.
              \- on a contemporary note, worth reading the "putatively
                 about the Persians, but not really" play "The Persians"
                 [n.b. the wikipedia article about this play is not good].
                 but once again, for a really amazing work of politcs and
                 history, with great bearing on contemporary events, rush
                 forward to events 150yrs laterm and read Thucydides "great
                 work for all time", History of the Peloponnesian War.
                 The story of the "fall of Athens" is interesting ... how
                 do the "enlightened" athenians alienate their neighbors and
                 allies when their enemies are led by a bunch of freakish,
                 fascist. Hmm, it's almost like "what does the US have to
                 for there to be any competition in a paropaganda war
                 with a bunch of crazies who behead people on tv".
                 \_ It's more complicated than that and pre-dates the Bush
                    admin by a few decades or more.  If you'd like to discuss
                    we can start a new thread starting with European colonial
                    activity in the Middle East and India/Pakistan/Afghanistan
                    over the last few hundred years, the decline of European
                    powers as world powers post WWII/during the Cold War, the
                    West's greatly increasing need for energy out-pacing supply
                    growth and the recategorization of terrorists as freedom
                    fighters in various places over time.  Then again,
                    nevermind, even the cliff notes of the cliff notes are too
                    long for the motd.
                    \- your comments dont make any sense as a response or
                       reaction to mine. or really on their own. i was making
                       \_ I was responding to your last sentence or two.
                       a specific narrow point: athens, the enlightened side
                       in the "judgement of history", were in some sense the
                       bad guys because of the "arrogance of power" ...
                       [do you know what happened "after" the pel war?]
                       john dryden wrote:
                       "When the chosen people grew too strong
                       "The rightful cause at length became the wrong.
                       At least in the case of the trojan war, there were
                       good an bad guys on both sides. while in the case
                       of the pel war, the leaders of the other side,
                       the spartans, was kind of a freakish society.
                       today, none of these people who say thinks like
                       "the us is the greatest threat to world peace"
                       actually are pro-north korea or the the islamic
                       fundamentalists, but the they are more likely to
                       be affected by us actions ... not belgian style
                       harsh colonialism, but control of the free trade
                       agenda, framing the debate on many other issue etc.
                       and dramatic events like abu graib have accelerated
                       \_ I don't think abu graib was dramatic.  I think it
                          was overly hyped to be much more dramatic than it
                          was and was used as a proxy for the secret prisons
                          the more hard core sorts are taken to but no one has
                          real information about but which may (or may not)
                          have 'dramatic events' taking place inside.
                       this and have eroded some of the good will from
                       us work in the green revolution, medical science
                       etc. yes, the selective choice of labels such as
                       who is a freedom fighter and a terrorist, who are
                       friendly and unaccetable dictators, who can have nukes
                       etc is an example of this agenda control.
                       \_ That sort of agenda control goes both ways.  If you
                          look at the EU press and what a number of their
                          politicos are saying you'd think Hamas was an
                          oppressed movement of farmers having their figs
                          stolen in the night while Hezbollah were a bunch of
                          pacifist nuns doing the good works of The Peoples,
                          while the US and allies are world wide villains
                          and the worst sort of evil imaginable.  It's naively
                          laughable stuff but plenty believe it.  This change
                          in perception is relatively new dating back to only
                          the early 90s.  Prior to that groups like the PLO
                          were always described as terrorist organizations.
                          The PLO hasn't changed.  Only the names.  Overall,
                          though, I agree with what you're saying.  There's
                          just so much more to it and really the motd isn't
                          a great place for a discussion that would do the
                          topic justice.
                          \- BTW, by agenda control i dont mean (just)
                             how you spin things [the freedom fighter vs
                             terroist issue]. i mean literally agenda
                             control at meetings for say the doha trade
                             round ... "the most important trade problem
                             today is software and dvd piracy and the pro-
                             death forces who want to remove longer terms
                             for medical patents and micky mouse copyright".
                             \_ Ah, I see.  I'll buy that.  No one likes when
                                someone bigger pushes their agenda.  And that's
                                \- not to mention double standards.
                                   \_ That's the whole point of being bigger.
                                      When you are that much more powerful,
                                      the negotiations are not among equals
                                      but more about how much the little guy
                                      is _allowed_ to have.  It is the nature
                                      of power, especially in international
                                      affairs.  No one likes being the little
                                      guy and doubly so if they were once the
                                      big time colonial power who owned and
                                      stripped a large chunk of the planet at
                                      the tip of a sword or rifle barrel.
                                      \- yes, i have read the melian dialog
                                         too. and i also know what happened
                                         to athens in the coming decades.
                                         some of the countries being dealt
                                         with high-handedly are not "little
                                         guys", e.g. china. they us
                                         expendiently switches between "we're
                                         right because we are good" and "might
                                         makes right". so start getting ready
                                         for more "fuck yous" from the
                                         international community. it will
                                         be interesting to see how the us
                                         deals with negotiations about cost
                                         bearing on global warming, how they
                                         react to things like china setting
                                         up bilateral deal rather than the
                                         "unversalist" approach of GATT/WTO
                                         \_ I wasn't really going for the
                                            melian dialogs but they did have
                                            a point.  As far as the non-little
                                            guys go, if they get big enough,
                                            such as the USSR during the cold
                                            war, you just get bi-lateral talks
                                            among equals, as expected.  If they
                                            are small, then the US is back to
                                            melian style dialog, as expected.
                                            There's no such thing as a unified
                                            international community.  There are
                                            nations that have shared goals, but
                                            no further than that.  It is always
                                            possible to pick off member states
                                            of a larger coalition, setting up
                                            favorable side deals, etc.  I see
                                            no problem.  At worst, as I said,
                                            you deal with other large entities
                                            with the respect they've earned as
                                            equals or nearly so.  What is so
                                            horrible about that?  Are you
                                            predicting some sort of Great Down
                                            Fall of the Evil US when we have to
                                            deal with others as equals?  US
                                            power is relatively new to the
                                            planet.  Pre-WW2 the US was a joke
                                            on the world stage.  We didn't have
                                            a military of any note, any serious
                                            industrial capacity, or much of
                                            anything else going on.  What we
                                            did have was a whole lot of
                                            potential which was seen in WW2 to
                                The Mickey Mouse Copyright Act to you, pal!
                                We're now at what?  75 years after the death
                                of the author?  100?  How long ago did Walt
                                \_ Geez, he died in 12/1966: 40 years.
        \_ "The Persians bring with them exotic beasts like a rhinoceros and
            elephant, and the leader of the Immortals fights Leonidas in a
            duel (which the Greeks knew as monomachia)."
           No, he doesn't. Was Hanson actually paying attention?
           \- in a bit of a coincidence, professor delong has blurb on
              the peloponnesian war (where the melian dialog comes from):
              the parts quoting thucydides are worth readings [remind
              you of anything? ... bushco, darth cheney, john kerry],
              the stuff on kagan is probably not so interesting if you
              are not familar with him or his 4vol "standard" work on
              the pel war, it's leadup and aftermath.
              kagan is kinda crazy .. he's an ultra rightwinger at yale
              and was considered sort of a hazard and loose canon ...
              who had to be removed form various committees etc.
               harvard:harvey mansfield::yale:donald kagan.
              if you are interested in international politics, thucydides
              is well-worth reading. inspite of being 2400 yrs old ... before
              nukes, before even nation states, before global reach of
              nations ... but still many deep lessons about might and right,
              bandwagoning vs balancing [if you are a minor power, do you
              ally with #1 or #2], alliance management, preventative war,
              relative vs absolute gains, balance of threat theory, the
              importance of individuals vs "historical forces", fog of war,
              hawks and doves and domestic politics, ideology and the enemy
              law in war ... and the writing is amazing [thuycidides is
              supposed ot be one of the absolute hardest to read in the
              original tho ... very difficult greek ... it's even "greek"
              to a lot of people who know some greek.] it's also an amazing
              story at just a plot level ... the tide keeps turning as things
              go wrong, leaders die at the wrong time etc.
              \_ new post about kagan:
2007/3/13-17 [Recreation/Travel/LasVegas] UID:45954 Activity:nil
3/13    Blowing up things in Las Vegas:
2007/3/13-15 [Science/Disaster, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:45955 Activity:low
3/13    "I don't want to pick on Al Gore," Don J. Easterbrook, an emeritus
        professor of geology at Western Washington University, told hundreds of
        experts at the annual meeting of the Geological Society of America.
        "But there are a lot of inaccuracies in the statements we are seeing,
        and we have to temper that with real data."
        \_ Did Easterbrook actually point to Gore's use of info on hurricanes
           as an "'imperfection' and 'technical flaw'"?  Saying "this year
           didn't meet the predictions" doesn't disprove Gore's claims in the
           movie, nor the fundamental basis for the predictions.
           \_ the hurricane criticism was weak.  gore said that hurricanes
              would become more powerful as ocean water got warmer -- he made
              no statement as to the frequency.
        \_ This guy needs his tenure and funding pulled and a few death threats
           to set him straight.  Then he'll "get it".
           \_ actually, he just needs to publish convincing evidence that there
              is no global warming.  if the evidence were irrefutable, he'd win
              a nobel prize.  as it is, we have 90% certainty that humans are
              causing an increase in global temperatures.
              \_ He's a Denier!  Why are you defending him?  Are you a Denier,
        \_ "If you rake him over the coals, you're going to find people who
           disagree. But in terms of the big picture, he got it right."
2007/3/13-16 [Uncategorized] UID:45956 Activity:nil
3/13    Hi is there chat, with webcam support, that works in Windows
        and Linux?
        \_ Isn't Yahoo Messenger capable of this?
           \_ And Skype too.
2007/3/13-17 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:45957 Activity:nil
3/13    Looks like foreclosures are slowing. Is the housing slump coming to a
        soft landing?
        \_ don't worry, default notices will convert into foreclosures
        \_ if so, why is there so much distress in the subprime lenders
2007/3/13-16 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Women] UID:45958 Activity:nil
3/13    Want to get your woman on the pill? Show her CNN's link:
        \_ About #2: Low-dose pills are actually better than high-dose pills
           in preventing ovarian cancer:
           About #9: My wife's dentist told her that antibiotics also
           decreases the effectiveness of the pill.
2007/3/13-17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:45959 Activity:nil
3/13    Anyone want to move to Seattle and take a job as a Linux System
        Administrator?  Take a look at, then email tsang@soda
        for more details.  We need exactly those skills that were so
        roundly labeled as "irrelevant" while soda was down... and they've
        become harder to find, apparently.  -- tsang
        \_ for company claiming to be a 'search' company, having 0 results
           come up from a simple keyword search for Linux under the careers
           section doesn't bode well.
           \_ Careers -> Current Open Positions -> Job Title = Linux Systems
              Administrator... then email me!  (I'll try to find out why
              the search doesn't work.)  --tsang
2007/3/13-17 [Computer/Companies/Yahoo] UID:45960 Activity:nil
3/13    Nikkei 225 down faster than Yahoo! chart can draw
2007/3/13-15 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:45961 Activity:nil
3/13    More on the BUSHCO US attorney fiasco: (
2018/08/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:March:13 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>