2/25 Oops. Gore the hypocrite.
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm
\_ On the one hand, if this surprises you, you're naive. On the other\
hand, DANG that's a lot of juice. (And gas too)
\_ We all know he's a hypocrit and that global warming is a myth.
This is exactly why I'm going to keep driving my H2 and
keep going to my church. God bless.
\_ This is the exact same strawman as people who quote fake
"liburals". It isn't funny, clever, or rhetorically useful.
Of course the irony is that this sort of intellectual dishonesty
makes you no better than the people you're ad homineming.
\_ While I don't think all this hullabaloo about global warming is
without merit I just don't can't take it seriously without real
proposals about effective ways to handle it. Scrimping and
Conserving and reducing buy only a few years, as the 10-20% you
save gets quickly made irrelevant 5% population and economic
growth. Zero carbon footprint? Shyeah, right. It won't happen
until you stop breathing, and even then you'll release some carbon
gases in the process of dying and decaying.
gases in the process of dying and decomposing.
\_ Nobody says there is a silver bullet to the problem. We already
know that.
\_ It isn't about his house or his zillions of plane flights or his
multiple SUVs or the rest of his lifestyle, per se. Yes, he's a
hypocrite but that's no big deal. The problem is that he wants to
inflict life style changes on everyone else that he's not willing
to live with for himself and his family. Paying some sort of bogus
"carbon footprint credit" doesn't make him any less wasteful, yet
he can afford to pay it for the feel good effect. 99% of the
rest of the world can't afford that so his answer for them is to
change their lifestyle. He's worth at least $50 million so a few
extra bucks for him is no big deal. Now then, if he actually
truly changed his life style in the way he advocates for everyone
else I'd be impressed. As far as Drudge goes, I don't see why
anyone gives a rat's ass what he has to say or why Gore bothered
to respond at all. The guy has a business to run. He's run it
the same way for years and it's no big deal. All his links are
either taken directly from other news sources or unsourced and
thus dismissable.
\_ A nice example of Right Wing "politics": You have lost on the
facts and lost on the message, time to smear the messenger.
Sorry guys, Karl Rove style politics doesn't work very well
anymore. America has developed immunity to your tactics.
\_ Woah! Holy crap. I'm shocked. But now, thanks to Drudges hard
hittin' journalism, I'm forced to realize that global warming is
a liberal conspiracy to subvert my precious bodily fluids, and to
give all my money to the Enterprise Institute. Thank you for saving
me, amen, and fuck you.
\_ Okay, he has a larger than average house. It uses more than
average electricity. How does it compare to comparably sized
houses? What does he use the space for? As usual, drudge runs
the gotcha without the journalism..
Gore responds:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/26/gore-responds-to-drudge
\_ That's not much of a response (too short). I was hoping that he
explains how many people live there and what goes on in the
mansion that uses so much energy. For example, I suppose a 24hr
security system for such a big mansion uses quite a bit of
energy.
\_ His answer is sufficient to demolish the claim of hypocrisy,
and is really more than a spuurious charge from drudge
deserves. Unfortunately, people still think drudge has
some amount of value. Ergo, the "short" response.
\_ No it isn't. The more "green" energy he buys, the less
there is for others.
\_ Just... wow...
\_ What, all you greenies believe everything is zero
sum, don't you?
\_ All of you assholes think a single data point
makes for the end of the debate, don't you?
\_ Ha ha ha. No, I just like to point out
hypocrisy and idiocy when it presents itself.
\_ And in outing yourself thus, you've out-
done yourself.
\_ On the one hand, if this surprises you, you're naive. On the other
hand, DANG that's a lot of juice. (And gas too)
\_ I did know that most environmental spokesholes were hypocrites,
but I didn't know about Gore in particular. -op
\_ You didn't realize that most politicians are hypocrites???
\_ Anyone who got to State office level or higher has to be.
\_ "There's no law against being a hypocrite a few times in your
life and this industry is built on hypocrisy." -Matt Drudge
\_ The latest PG&E bill for my 4bd 2ba house with 6 people was $67.
I have electric stove.
\- I think the "i pay to reduce my carbon footprint to
zero" is sort of a bogus reply. That's basically the
"ultrarich liberal" response that "as long as i am
willing to pay higher taxes, i should be able to not
change my lifestyle".
change my lifestyle". i believe in internalizing costs
but it's understood that that is a complicated matter
given it's regressive nature. i'll leave it at that.
\_ Is it still bogus if you first lower your footprint as
much as is practicable? This sounds like the converse
of the "liberals are pro-choice cuz they like killing
babies" talking point.
\_ If you're generating co2, you're generating co2. Saying,
"I reduced my waste a bit and spend more on green stuff
because I'm rich and can easily afford it" doesn't cut
it, no.
\_ Do you know what carbon-offset means?
\_ Yes, I do. Planting 5 trees in Kenya does not
offset each of Gore's trans continental private
flights to pick up an award. It is feel goodism.
Besides, exactly what has he and his family actually
done to 'carbon-offset' their life style?
\_ You're making up numbers. 5 trees in Kenya? What
if it were 50 trees? 500? At what point would
you not call it feel-goodism any more? Gore says
he's carbon neutral. You have no evidence to the
contrary. For now, I'm gonna go with... him.
\_ I'm not making up anything. Here's all the
numbers, with prices included. And you get to
calculate your 'carbon footprint' along the
way so you know exactly how many trees you need
to plant in Kenya: http://www.carbonfootprint.com
Now then, as I said, what exactly has Gore or
his family done to offset their carbon foot-
print? The weight is on their shoulders to
prove it, not on mine to prove they aren't.
They are the ones making the claims. I'm just
some dude who doesn't spend $30k a year to
heat my house or fly around the world on
private jets all the time. The answer is easy
to figure out: they do nothing but talk about
it a lot. And fly private jets around the
world to tell other people how to live and
collect little statues on TV.
\- the issue isnt is he spending enough $ to
offset the "carbon footprint". the point is
the rich can pay their way out while the
poorer people have to make lifestyle changes.
say we had a draft, do you think it is defensible
to pay your way out of it? well then it really
isnt a draft then is it. or say you could pay
your way out of jail terms. or say you could
buy your way into a college. yes i know all of
these things happen, but it is a little
disturbing and we should be aware of the
disparate impact. mccain could hve gotten out
of vietnam service via a legitimate and legal
channel. we respect the fact that he served
never the less.
never the less. maybe we should not expect that
gore or bush wont use political connections to
get thir kinds INTO harvard and yale, but i do
respect that mccain didnt use his political
connection to get OUT of the hanoi hilton.
say we had a draft, do you think it is
defensible to pay your way out of it? well
then it really isnt a draft then is it. or say
you could pay your way out of jail terms. or
say you could buy your way into a college. yes
i know all of these things happen, but it is a
little disturbing and we should be aware of
the disparate impact. mccain could hve gotten
out of vietnam service via a legitimate and
legal channel. we respect the fact that he
served never the less. maybe we should not
expect that gore or bush wont use political
connections to get thir kinds INTO harvard and
yale, but i do respect that mccain didnt use
his political connection to get OUT of the
hanoi hilton. similarly i respect how people
like WBUFFET live.
\_ Great point. However, this is why countries
are expected to buy into carbon credit
programs as well. I'm not so disgusted
by Haves taking positive action unavailable
to Have nots...
The parallels you cite all have either a
direct benefit or direct exculpation to
the Have in question. As carbon costs are
not currently monetarily/legally realized,
I think the lead by example is noteworthy.
\- i'm trying to cut down on my motd cycles
but this is a matter i am kind of
interested in. the international analog
is the us vs china, india, and brazil.
it will be an interesting question
how the costs of dealing with enviro
issues are distributed. it may not be
unreasonable that the us pays and india
and china and brazil change behavior
but i have a feeling this negotiation
wont go very smoothly.
\_ How do you manage this? Mine is over $150 and I don't even
have air/heat or any appliances running other than 1
computer (iMac) and 2 (relatively new) refrigerators. I am
calling bullshit unless you live somewhere like Washington
state where power is cheap.
\_ No, I live in Fremont. The energy rate in my last bill was
$1.13 per therm of gas and $0.11 per kWh of electricity. Do
you have an electric cloths dryer? I have a gas dryer and I
line-dry my cloths on sunny days. I also wrapped an
insulation blanket on my water heater, and set its thermostat
such that the water is just hot enough but not any hotter. I
completely power off (not energy- saving mode) my PC and
monitor when not in use. I have only one 7yr old fridge. I
use mostly fluorescent blubs and tubes, and we turn lights
off when not in use. I have double-pane windows and we wear
jackets at home when it's cold, so we use the gas furnace
only occasionally.
\_ No, I live in Fremont. Do you have an electric cloths dryer?
I have a gas dryer and I line-dry my cloths on sunny days.
I also wrapped an insulation blanket on my water heater, and
I set its thermostat such that the water is just hot enough
but not any hotter. I completely power off (not energy-
saving mode) my PC and monitor when not in use. I have only
one 7yr old fridge. I use mostly fluorescent blubs and
tubes, and we turn lights off when not in use. I have
double-pane windows and we wear jackets at home when it's
cold, so we use the gas furnace only occasionally.
only occasionally. -- PP
p.s. I also turn off the tap when applying soap or shampoo and
when I'm brushing my teeth. This is more for conserving water
than gas energy, though.
\_ Your 7 year old fridge is 90% of your bill, wastrel!
\_ It was an energy efficient model when I bought it in
2000.
2000. -- PP
\_ Welcome to 2007. My Buick was energy efficient in
1963 when it was made but not when I drove it in
1986.
\_ I have a gas dryer. I use 20-30 kWh per day, depending
on the season. My last bill was for $178.68 and 903
kWh, which is more than usual. That is for two people
who both work and are gone from 9-8pm every day. How
the hell can 6 people have a $67 bill? My taxes are
$13, which means you are using ~$54 of electricity
at $.11 kWh, which means you use half the energy
I do. For six people?! I don't even watch TV, use
a microwave, etc. I do like to turn lights on at night
from 8pm until midnight. Crazy me. Do you use candles?
\_ I don't understand your electric bill then. My family
(me, wife, 2 kids) have an electric dryer, and a gas
heater. Our last PG&E bill was ~$80, which is HUGE for
us. Mostly due to not being able to dry our clothes
outside, and heating the house to a toasty 65 degrees.
Are you heating the house all day and night, even when
you aren't there? We only heat when we're home and
not in bed. This is in Livermore, CA. -jrleek (!pp)
\_ "I don't even have air/heat". I have a gravity
(gas) furnace which doesn't use electricity
at all. How many kWHs did you use for that $80 bill?
BTW, I read that the average US household uses
934 kWh/month, which is less than I use (usually
700-900).
\_ Ok, the $88 bill was both gas and electric.
Electric: 170 kWh, $19.48, $.1146 per kWh
Gas: 58 Therms, $69.30, $1.948 per Therm -jrleek
\_ 170 kwH?! A refrigerator by itself uses
100 kWh. You mean to say that you use 70
kWh for all of your other electricity
needs with 4 of you and an electric dryer?
Do you go to bed at sundown?
\_ New Poster: I am one person, I cook at home
every day, I leave a laptop on pretty much
24/7, I am more nocturnal than most and
yet my last gas+electricity bill was < $10.
\_ Er? Are you getting some sort of
discounted bill on some special program?
Just your laptop and some light cooking
would cost more than that. Are you
messing with the meter?
\_ A guy here at work only pays $5 a mo.
-jrleek
\_ I think that this is impossible
with taxes.
\_ I have no idea how many kWh my fridge uses
but I am not living a bizarrely ascetic life.
I go to bed at about 10pm. We are careful
with electricty usage, turn off the computer,
unplug the entertainment stuff when we aren't
using it, etc. But that stuff is chicken
feed compared to how much more you're using.
From the replies here it seems like you're
using a lot of electricity and not getting a
lot out of it. Your bill is similar to what
my dad pays, and he has a well for his water
(electric water pump), and runs 6 computers
all the time. You're using a LOT of juice.
You're the odd one here. Maybe your wife has
a secret server farm in the basement. -jrleek
\_ You'd think I'm the odd one, except
that stats show that ~900 kWh is
pretty typical household usage.
\_ Yes, but the typical household doesn't
claim to have no heat/AC, a gas dryer,
no TV, and no one home most of the
day. Also, CA has much lower per captia
energy useage, just over half. -jrleek
CFL bulbs, and no one home most of the
day. Also, CA has significanly lower
per captia energy useage-jrleek
http://www.energy.ca.gov/electricity/us_percapita_electricity_2003.html
\_ Well, I guess I need to invest
in a kill-a-watt, then, because
there's very little running.
\_ That sounds like a good idea. I'd
be really interested in what you
figure out. You could also check
your meter to see total useage.
Also, do you use incandecent
bulbs? Just curious. |
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