2/14 A few days ago there was a brief discussion about socialized health
care. Walter Williams has a column today that addresses existing
problems of Canada and UK health care. -emarkp
http://csua.org/u/i1p
\_ The Canadian statistics there are interesting. They give numbers
like "the median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.3 weeks,
but in Prince Edward Island, it's 9 weeks". PEI is the smallest
and poorest province in Canada, though, so that's not really
surprising. All the above-the-median examples they give are from
the small, poor provinces -- this suggests that wait times in the
major provinces (Ontario, Quebec, BC) are significantly lower than
the numbers in the article, which fits with what my friends and
relatives have experienced. --mconst
\_ Wrong--not "significantly lower" than the median. A little
googling turned up the publication:
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=863
"Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, and Nova Scotia had the shortest wait
for computed tomography (4.0 weeks)" -emarkp
\_ Oh, and here's the Observer article from 2002:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/nhs/story/0,,661090,00.html
"The number waiting a dangerously long time has doubled in two
years, says a devastating official study obtained by The
Observer." -emarkp
\_ BORRRRRING
\_ Not necessarily. If the population on PEI and other poor regions
is low than their numbers won't have a dramatic impact on the
average across the country. I don't have numbers for these
places and honestly don't care enough to look them up but your
basic logic is flawed.
\_ I'd rather wait 9 weeks for a govt paid CT scan than 2 days for
one that costs $15,000 out of pocket.
\_ What if your condition becomes terminal in that 9 weeks?
\_ There's no question that there's a trade off. But in the
end I believe that more people would benefit from the service
who don't have healthcare than those who would suffer because
of wait times.
\_ So, it seems like the obvious solution here would be to
allow people to pay for fast service if they wish. (I
haven't read the article yet.) -jrleek
\_ Which is explicitly disallowed, at least in Canada.
-emarkp
\_ There is a lot of room for debate on whether we should move to
socialized medicine. However, I find http://TownHall.com to be distress-
ingly partisan. Thank you for the article; please let us know if a
more reliable source has something to say. --erikred
\_ You attack the messenger because you don't like the message?
How about we examine the message itself. Is there a flaw in
their data or reporting?
\_ http://TownHall.com is a collection for opinions on the right. If you
reject a source of debate that you don't like, how can you have a
debate? Williams is an economist and from reading his columns, I
think he's clearly libertarian (in philosophy if not in party
registration). I'm perfectly happy reading opinions from the
left on (say) http://moveon.org, etc. and opinions from the right on a
different site. Why do you object to that? -emarkp
\_ Of course, anytime you ration the use of something, you are going
to cause a wait for it. In the US, we just ration by ability to
pay, in Canada they do it by the severity of your problem. People
die all the time in the US because they can't afford treatment,
and Dr. Williams is being disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
\_ Ah, but the difference is that when people bid up the cost of
something, there is financial incentive to bring more players
into the market. The US system, while deeply flawed, does allow
government (or charities) to subsidize the cost of care for
people who can't afford it, and those who can afford it can get
it by paying cash. -emarkp
\_ Where do the blood sucking parasites, I mean, insurance
companies fit into this equation?
\_ Insurance simply spreads risk. We pay them to manage risk
for us. However, the current insurance/medical regime is
the problem with the system. To some extent we *do* have
socialized care, since medical essentially determines
reimbursment amounts, and mandates care at emergency rooms.
-emarkp
\_ Tell me again how "no one dies" due to lack of
medical care in America:
http://www.csua.org/u/i26
But yes, in many ways we have both the worst of
socialism and the worst of capitalism all rolled up
in our terrible medical delivery system.
\_ I never said it in the first place. Can't you read?
-emarkp
\_ "I challenge anyone to show me people dying on
the streets because they don't have health
insurance." So you didn't say it, but your
source did. |