Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:February:05 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2007/2/5-7 [Computer/HW/Drives, Consumer/TV] UID:45652 Activity:nil
2/4     http://cinderella3dvd.com
        Evil step mom travels back in time to change history.
        Now you'll find out-- What if the shoe didn't fit?
2007/2/5-7 [Recreation/Sports] UID:45653 Activity:nil
2/4     I hate football.
        \_ Each year you watch SuperBowl your IQ goes down by 2 points.
           Each year you watch football and drink beer your IQ goes down
           by 5 points.
        \_ What about football?  Is it football season or something?
2007/2/5-7 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:45654 Activity:nil
2/4     Help UNIX experts. I setup a crontab and it keeps outputing
        crap. The cron is as follows:
        0 4 * * * /bin/sh -c "cd mydir; tryit.pl 2>&1 > /dev/null"
        The error/email I keep getting is as follows, what does this mean?
        "stdin: is not a tty"
        \_ Check to see if "mesg y" is set anywhere. Disable that.
        \_ Instead of mushing about running /bin/sh to get a 'cd', I would
           put the 'cd' as part of the perl script and run that directly
           with a full path: 0 4 * * * /myhome/tryit.pl 2>&1 > /dev/null.
           Also, since this appears to be new code you might want to let
           cron mail you any output instead of devnulling it, at least for
           the first few runs.
        \_ This suggests your script is doing something that looks at stdin.
           Normally when you run the script from commandline, you are on a tty.
           Things run from cron arent.  One way to test the different operating
           environment is to ssh into soda without a tty, and test.  Try
           'ssh soda /bin/csh -i' and try running your command.  That will
           start a tty-less shell. -ERic
2007/2/5-7 [Uncategorized] UID:45655 Activity:nil
2/5     George Will on Global Warming
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16960409/site/newsweek
        \- this is why newsweek costs $15/year.
           \_ Wow! Stellar rebuttal!
              \- it's an insult, not a rebuttal.
                 \_ Yeah I noticed that you're an idiot.
2007/2/5-7 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:45656 Activity:nil
2/5     I told you the PS3 was too expensive and they'd have to cut prices.
        http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/technology/16589429.htm?source=rss&channel=siliconvalley_technology
        My follow-up prediction was that Sony could price themselves entirely
        out of the game console market pulling off a major crash'n'burn with
        the PS3 debacle.  You heard it here first.
        \_ No no no. *I* predicted on motd that the PS3 would be a
           complete debacle before *you* did. Shut up.
        \_ Let me guess, you also shorted google.
           \_ No, I'd never short a company that won't reveal what they do or
              how they do it.  I don't believe in magic or secret IT rituals.
2007/2/5-7 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:45657 Activity:nil
2/5     Do fluorescent tubes and the energy efficient compact fluorescent
        light bulbs go bad quickly if I turn them on and off frequently?  I
        think incandescent bulbs don't have this problem.  Thanks.
        \_ In general florescent bulb lasts longer, but it takes a few
           minutes for it to reach full brightness, especially used
           ones. It also doesn't work well with dimmers, it flicks. So
           just leave it on if you'll be in/out often. It is more
           impact resistent. I was down in the craw space and a little
           bit of knocking, the regular bulb goes bad. Florescent has
           no problem.
        \_ Mythbusters checked this.  The answer is no.
           \_ Thanks!  Now I'll turn off my fluorescent lights more often.
              Here's the page if anyone is interetsted:
              http://www.csua.org/u/hzv (Scroll down to "Bulb Longevity".)
              --- OP
              \- you should use THE BERKELEY LAMP
2007/2/5-7 [Computer/Networking] UID:45658 Activity:nil
2/5     Any recommendations on local (bay area) used cisco vendors? I'm looking
        for a top of rack gigabit switch...
        \_ 1 switch?  Ebay.
        \_ Northbay Networks in Emeryville
2007/2/5-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45659 Activity:kinda low
2/5     Boredcast Message from 'psb': Sun Feb  4 17:16:42 2007
        as brad delong might say:
        run over krauthhammer now:
        http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTFhZGJiNWZjNzk2Zjg3N2YzODhmZDY0YWI3N2RiMmE=
                (btw, i didnt put this in the motd. although i do think
                krauthhammer is a human cockroach --psb)
        \_ Okay, I've read the article--don't see much of a problem. Any other
           opinions you recommend killing people over?
           \_ I think fuckwits who take things too literally should be forced
              to swallow drano.
              \- there is at least one sloda user who has consumed drano.
                 (i am not kidding)
        \_ What about it?  He's stuck on drawing artificial lines between
           groups, as if all Shia should be on the same side and give him a
           nice little easy to write article about the Sunni/Shia war with
           some nice sound bites thrown in about what other countries support
           which side.  He's only an article writer.  He doesn't actually
           know (or have to) know anything.
           \_ Should he be killed?
              \_ Of course not.  He's just an opinion writer.  He gets paid
                 to write stuff other people will re-post elsewhere to increase
                 hit counts and ad revenues.  He is doing his job and harming
                 no one.
                 \_ Peddling hate hurts no one? Tell that to all the Iraqis
                    dead by sectarian violence.
                    \_ Please quote a few lines of "hate" with context.  And
                       generally, yes, even if he was a hate peddler, it hurts
                       no one because he has no power or influence.
        \_ Many of us warned his ilk that civil war would be the inevitable
           outcome of breaking up the "strong center" in Iraq. The arrogant
           neocons ignored us, as they ignored most of the world's warnings.
           Now blood is on their hands and they want to deny responsibility
           for it. Bullshit. These guys are just as responsible for the
           upcoming deaths of millions as Stalin was for starving the Kulaks.
           \_ I believe the problem wasn't taking out Saddam but having no
              real post-Saddam plan.  I became very concerned when the invasion
              part was over and they didn't declare martial law and mop up.
              I'm not sure what they did for those first few precious weeks but
              I think everything was lost right there.
              \_ Considering the very long history of Sunni-Shi'ite violence
                 I don't think it would have mattered. Just maybe we could
                 have replaced one strongman with another. In any case, hubris
                 led to the neocons and those in power to not have a contingency
                 plan.
                 \_ The Sunni and Shia live in neighboring countries and as
                    neighbors within countries all over the middle east without
                    killing each other on a daily basis.  There is no reason
                    to believe that only a mass murderer like Hussein could
                    keep that in check.  Or actually, no, he didn't try, he
                    was Sunni and was butching about 5,000 Sunni a month for
                    decades.
2007/2/5-6 [Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:45660 Activity:low
2/5     how did that guy from years ago forget BART cards?  I think he went
        to jail?
        \_ hOw did subject parse article.  OP does not make sense.  Stupid
           I think he is. -dans
           \_ Check that, he may be a cross or self-referential post-modern
              genius jumping between soda's motd and http://csua.org's motd. -dans
2007/2/5-7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Finance/Investment] UID:45661 Activity:kinda low
2/5     Fuck Bush, R congress, Microsoft, Redhat <=AS2.1, et. al..  The
        DST change is going to make my life hell.
        \_ I actually like it. I think it is overdue. I want evening
           daylight, not daylight at 5:00am.
        \_ What are you talking about?
           \_ IYHTAYDW
              \_ If You Have To Ask You Don't... Whoah?
        \_ Time zone change?  Did you mean the start and end of Daylight
           Savings time instead?
           \_ Yes.  To your OS, there is no difference between the two.
           \_ The change of law that has moved the dates to start DST.
              \_ I thought M$ has downloads to update Windozes for this.
        \_ What about all the money/resources wasted to make new
           'gadgets' that are aware of this stupid new DST? Have to
           replace your damned alarm clock for crying out loud!
           \_ Nah.. That's not "waste"!  That's "reducing inventory"!
        \_ Hello ignorant person.  This is hardly the first time DST has
           been changed.  In about 8 seconds of searching you'll find the
           history of day light savings and see just how far back and how
           many times this has happened.  I suggest searching for "History
           of day light savings".  BTW, when you blame Bush and R's for
           every trivial thing you sound like Chicken Little.  No one wants
           to hear the real complaints when you moan and cry and finger
           point about everything from DST changes to the ocean not being
           quite the right shade of pink in the mornings.
           \_ Wow, someone's hyperbole detector is on the fritz.  Fuck off,
              little man.
2007/2/5-6 [Uncategorized] UID:45662 Activity:nil
2/5     Can someone install the tin news reader? Thanks!
        \_ Done. -- darch
2007/2/5-7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:45663 Activity:nil
2/5     Hillary: All your profits are belong to us!
        http://csua.org/u/hzu
2007/2/5-11 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:45664 Activity:moderate
2/5     http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/05/edwards.2008.ap/index.html
        "Edwards: Raise taxes to provide universal health care"
        Edwards will lose. Most Americans hate immigrants and social
        programs and thus don't want universal anything. It's the
        era of corporations and privitazition baby!
        \_ 60-70% polled say universal helth care is the fed's responsibility:
        \_ Christ this discussion is fucking stupid. -dans
        \_ 60-70% polled say health coverage is the fed's responsibility:
           http://pollingreport.com/health3.htm
           62% want universal health insurance:
           http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/US/healthcare031020_poll.html
           \_ Move to Canada.
              \_ No I intend to stay and fight. Where are you going to run
                 to after you lose?
           \_ Sure, I want someone else to pay my bills, too, but I'm not
              willing to pay the taxes for it.  I'll pay more to get less.
              Any cash that goes through government hands before turning into
              a service that you could otherwise buy yourself is always going
              to cost more and yield less.  Government, by its very nature,
              is inefficient and has costs.  No one really believes Edwards
              "tax the rich" thing.  That sort of thing always turns into a
              universal tax.  AMT is the perfect example of sticking it to the
              rich but nailing the middle class (as always).
              \_ And who has been in the position to "fix" the AMT for the
                 past 12 years, and did nothing?  You spew a lot of talking
                 points, but you're not saying anything.
                 \_ AMT was created decades ago.  During the absolute iron
                    fisted rule of both parties during that time and during
                    the creation process itself, no one thought to consider
                    that the numbers didn't scale with inflation.  Or didn't
                    care.  The "GOP is evuuuul!" meme is tired.  Let it rest.
                    If you had something to say on the topic, please join in,
                    but don't waste precious bits with partisan nonsense.
                    Neither party will do jack shit for the middle classes
                    that are already starting to get nailed by this, starting
                    in more expensive states like CA.  --gpp
                 \_ This is funny. The pp criticized "government", not a party.
                    "Government" has been in charge for the last 12 yrs.
                    \_ This is a bullshit point.  As is "Government ==
                       inefficient".  And it's a point formed and fed by
                       one party in particular.  Ergo my reply.
                       "Government is incompetent, and by God, we're going
                       to prove it."
                       \_ Yes, gov't == inefficient and incompetent is true in
                          general, simply because there's no driving force to
                          fix those problems.  See, I can counter your
                          assertion with mine!
                          \_ Yes, Enron did a much better job of supplying
                             California with power than the regulated utilities
                             and the City of Los Angeles.
                             \_ Ah, but it was because of the government's
                             \_ But it was because of the government's
                                handling of energy contracts that Enron was
                                able to screw us.
        \_ On average, we pay 2x as much for poorer health care than in the
           socialized medicine countries.  The elite can get very good care,
           but most of the rest of us are screwed.  Further, efficiencies will
           accrue.  Preventative care is a lot cheaper.  Prescribing diet
           change, quitting smoking, and exercise costs less than
           triple bypass surgery.
           \_ You're insane.  Efficiencies do not _ever_ accrue in government
              services.  You can prescribe all you want, no one is going to do
              it and then you'll need triple by pass surgery.  That surgery
              will be denied by some government flunky because you didn't
              excercise like the nice government doctor told you so you are
              not allowed the surgery and die horribly.  Good call.
              \_ Look it's the "you are insane" guy! Welcome back to the
                 guy who thinks that anyone who disagrees with him is
                 literally crazy!
                 \_ Ad hominem.  Try again if you like.
                     \_ The "you are insane" guy is complaining about
                        ad hominem attacks? Or is that intended to be
                        a compliment???
                        \_ If you skip the first two words you're obsessing
                           over and try to respond to the points made you'd
                           be on firmer ground.
                           \_ If you'd skip the ad hominem attacks, you'd
                              have a better chance of convincing people
                              that you had a reasonable point worth
                              thinking about.
              \_ Are you saying that a road system built by corporations
                 would be more efficient?  How about a national defense?
                 Those are two areas where Gov't is more efficient at
                 serving the people.  There's a lot of inequity and waste
                        \_ Health care is not a public service and does not
                           need to be.  It worked just fine before HMO's were
                           allowed to monopolise and destroy the system so the
                           answer is to create an even bigger monopoly but at
                           the federal government level.  Oh great, yeah that
                           will be wonderful.  A service that requires skill
                           and personal service being provided by government
                           robots.  That you can even consider compare the
                           road system to personal health care says volumes.
                           There are zero similiarities.  The closest gov't
                           provided personal service I can think of to health
                           care is housing.  Oh yeah, The Projects.  Section
                           8 housing has been so uplifting for so many.
                 in the current health system due to insurance overhead.
                 Having Gov't as single-payer (with revenue taxed out of us)
                 would eliminate the insurance nightmare.  It would *also*
                 allow for much more safely regulated hospitals.  The NTSB
                        \_ So you think your hospitals are unregulated?  What?
                 has made commercial aviation the safest mode of travel.
                 You're quite likely to die in hospitals due to medical
                 fuckups which are endemic to the healthcare system, and
                 with gov't regulation could be fixed across the whole
                 system, as the NTSB has done for commercial aviation.

                                                \_ Because healing a sick person\
 is just like flying
                           an airplane or running an airport.  Uhm, yeah.
                          \_ Because healing a sick person is just like
                             flying an airplane or running an airport.
                             Uhm, yeah.
                             \_ Does no one here understand the distinction
                                between "health care" and "paying for health
                                care"?  The answer becomes increasingly clear..
                                \_ Who ever has the bucks has the power.  You
                                   are not going to get quality health care
                                   from Doctor A when Government or HMO Flunky
                                   B says you don't need that procedure.  Once
                                   you figure that out you'll see why so many
                                   scream about government healthcare.  Whoever
                                   has the bucks has the power and makes the
                                   decisions.  In a government/hmo system that
                                   isn't you or your doctor.
                                   \_ Actually, you're right about the bucks.
                                      Nobody can pay their own medical bills,
                                      So we buy health insurance, and the
                                      insurance company pays the bills.  So the
                                      insurance company has the power.  Their
                                      interest is profit, so they make it hard
                                      for doctors to collect.  This makes it
                                      expensive for doctors to collect.  Which
                                      gets passed onto us--to the point where
                                      many of us can't afford health insurance
                                      anymore.  However, hospitals cannot just
                                      refuse someone care because they're poor.
                                      (By law.)  So doctors have to increase the
                                      prices on those of us who do have insurance.
                                      This situation is spiralling out of control,
                                      and is wasteful.  We *could* simply not offer
                                      any medical care at all to the poor (poor
                                      meaning "not rich", so fuck the middle class
                                      as well as the true poor.)  *Better* is for
                                      prices on those of us who do have
                                      insurance. This situation is spiralling
                                      out of control, and is wasteful.  We
                                      *could* simply not offer any medical care
                                      at all to the poor (poor meaning "not
                                      rich", so fuck the middle class as well as
                                      the true poor.)  *Better* is for
                                      the government to get involved, kick out
                                      the insurance companies, reduce the overall
                                      cost of health care, and make the poor pay
                                      for health care again via taxation.  And
                                      health care *better* be a public service,
                                      because Joe Contageous with intractable
                                      TB who isn't being treated because he's
                                      poor is going to give it to *you*.
                 Right now hospital A kills people with the same damn
                 fuckups that hospitals C, D, E, F, G, H....-->Z have
                        \_ Yes, the federal government is the driving force
                           for innovation in this country.  Not even God can
                           save us if that ever becomes true.
                 killed people with because they refuse (and can refuse)
                 to learn best-practices learned elsewhere the hard way,
                 by people dying.
                 \_ I used to believe that about roads and military, but I
                    don't any longer. Do you know how many private security
                    contractors are in Iraq?  Nearly 50,000.  I'm fairly
                    confident that if the government employed a few companies
                    to perform military functions, it would be cheaper and more
                    efficient.  And the gov't might actually attempt to obey
                    the constitution as well (since it wouldn't have the
                    biggest guns).
                    \_ This is, quite possibly, the most uninformed post
                       evah.
                       \_ If you have something to say, say it.  All you've
                          done is stick your tongue out and go, "NYAH! YOU ARE
                          A DUM POOPYHEAD!"
                          \_ Because that's all you deserve.  Never argue with
                             fools.  They'll pull you down to their level and
                             beat you with experience.
                             \_ You still said nothing.  Here's the best
                                response you can get from what you've said,
                                "NYAH!  YOU ARE A DUM POOPYHED TOO!"  Now
                                we're at the same level of discourse at least.
                                Or the adult version, "I'm soooo smart and you
                                are soooo dumb I can't even begin to explain
                                it!" which is known as, "I have no clue what
                                I'm talking about but I'm going to tell you
                                you're an idiot for not thinking like me,
                                anyway".
                    \_ Iraq has been by far the most expensive war the US
                       has ever fought (yes accounting for inflation).  Those
                       50,000 private security contractors have a lot to do
                       it costing so damn much.
                       \_ Where's your data for this?  How much are they
                          costing compared to US uniformed troops in comparable
                          positions?
                          \_ I'm curious as to where your "Nearly 50k" number
                             came from.  As the pentagon has claimed they
                             don't have any numbers on contractors in Iraq,
                             they may be interested in your powers of
                             divination.
                             As for the cost overruns, Henry Waxman just
                             started his hearings.  After almost 4 years of
                             R delay, he may just be able to get you an answer
                             on that.
                             \_ Well, you are wrong and he is wrong, but just
                                read this and see:
                                http://www.csua.org/u/i08
                                (Washington Post)
                                \_ An external organization giving an estimate
                                   does not negate my claim that the pentagon
                                   has said they don't know how many contractors
                                   are in iraq.
                                \_ The GAO giving an estimate does not negate
                                   my claim that the pentagon has said they
                                   don't know how many contractors are in iraq.
                                   \_ That wasn't the question.
                                      \_ The question was "Do you know
                                         how many private security
                                         contractors are in Iraq?"
                                         The answer is "By necessity, no."
                                         \_ What is wrong with the GAO
                                            estimate?  Why does it matter if
                                            the Pentagon knows or not when
                                            we're discussing if random motd
                                            poster whos or not from another
                                            source?
                                   Ah, I see.  P has blessed the results of
                                   the external survey.
                                   the external survey.  So you're taking them
                                   as the Pentagon claim.  So.. the auditiors
                                   have to tell the P just how many contracts
                                   they've given out... You don't see a problem
                                   here?
                                   \_ I see no problem with working with the
                                      best numbers available, instead of
                                      throwing up my hands and claiming
                                      that since I can't get perfect
                                      information, there is no point in
                                      even trying to understand the situation.
                                      \_ It doesn't concern you that the P
                                         is spending $Bs on contracts, and
                                         doesn't know where it's going?
                    \_ You're comfortable with the idea of corporations
                       having bigger guns than the government?  Seriously?
                       Our government may be incompetent and wasteful, but
                       corporations are psychopaths.
                       \_ Yes, I'm comfortable with that. Corporations are no
                          more than aggregates of people, with a corporate aim.
                          Sounds like the gov't to me.  Since the gov't doesn't
                          care what the voters think, how precisely is that
                          different?
                          \_ The main difference between corporations and
                             the government is that corporations compete
                             against each other. The government, through
                             legislation, does not have to compete with
                             industry and can control markets. The
                             government is a form of dictatorship and
                             monopoly rolled into one. Sometimes it's
                             a benevolent dictatorship, but it's still a
                             dictatorship. Smaller government is better.
                             \_ Mega corps that have legal rights as people is
                                just as bad as having an over bearing uncarin
                                gigantic federal system.
                       \_ Actually, technically, corporations are sociopaths,
                          but otherwise I agree with you.  What the person
                          above me doesn't understand is that corps are
                          different from government due to profit motive.  If
                          that can make a buck by killing you horribly, the
                          corp won't hesitate a second.  To get the government
                          to kill someone means making a bunch of slack
                          government employees fill out paperwork, attend
                          meeting, record metrics, and general interfere with
                          other things they'd rather be doing.
           \_ Ha ha!  Talking with people who have lived in countries with
              socialized medicine has made it clear you're full of crap.  Do
              you really want hospitals to turn into the DMV?
              \_ Actually this was from news stories in the US.
                 \_ Which news stories?
              \_ Six years of living with socialized medicine in Japan made it
                 clear to me that hospitals can be efficient, competent, and
                 cheap. Where's your personal experience to the contrary?
                 \_ Canada.
                    \_ How long were you there, and what did they screw up?
                       \_ A friend, and he needed an MRI and found out the
                          waiting list was 18 months long--people dying before
                          they could get an MRI, etc.
                          \_ Anecdotal hearsay evidence isn't very strong.
                             \_ http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba369
                                http://www.cato.org/dailys/9-23-96.html
                                http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?id=855
                                etc. etc. etc.
2007/2/5 [Uncategorized] UID:45665 Activity:moderate 71%like:45668
2/5     Christ.  Politics discussionss on the motd are fucking stupid. -dans
2007/2/5-7 [Computer/SW/Mail, Recreation/Woodworking] UID:45666 Activity:nil
2/5     Can someone install Elm? Thanks!
2007/2/5-7 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45667 Activity:low
2/5     How do I check my soda mail? mail, pine, both returns error.
        mail: .... is a directory
        pine: error...
        \_ mailx has been replaced with a Maildir-aware version; it should
           work correctly now.  Pine should work using the default config as
           of last week; look at /csua/soda-changes.2007.01 for a detailed
           discussion.  Short answer: set your inbox-path to /var/mail/$USER.
           -- darch
           \_ Mailx finds my old mail in /var/mail/$USER/cur but the new mail
              is spooling to /var/mail/$USER.
        \_ mutt.
        \_ mh
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/21    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:February:05 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>