Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:January:30 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2007/1/30-2/1 [Computer/Networking] UID:45613 Activity:nil
1/29    I really don't get the new Cisco human network commercial where
        "Anyone can be famous anywhere [on the network]" Why the hell
        would people of different ethnicity (Indians, Chinese, etc) be
        interested at a boy dancing stupidily to a dumb ass music?
        \_ "Ya, uh huh, uh huh uh huh,
            Ya, uh huh, uh huh uh huh,"
            Are you annoyed yet? Are you? Are you? "uh huh uh huh."
            Fuck Cisco.
2007/1/30-2/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:45614 Activity:nil
1/29    This is wickedly fucked up (dead man's sperm to impregnate a woman
        he never met):
        http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/29/israel.deadmansperm.ap
2007/1/30 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:45615 Activity:nil
1/29    Motd boob guy go to china: http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=2qxuded
2007/1/30-2/1 [Uncategorized] UID:45616 Activity:nil
1/30    Out of curiousity, and since dans has made himself irrelevant
        in the discussion on http://csua.org/motd has the source(s) of the
        breakins (the last two, specifically) been isolated?  And what
        proactive steps are being taken to mitigate the problems?  I'm
        sure campus security has asked as well..
2007/1/30-2/1 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:45617 Activity:high
1/30    You know what will stop global warming? Energy shortage.
        Refinery fubars. Oil peak. Things of that sort. I pray
        our oil fields get sabotaged so that our energy costs would be
        10X it is now. Then, there would be no more wasteful lifestyles.
        No more SUVs and less traffic jams, and most importantly
        no more irresposible suburban sprawl.   -sierra club urbanite hippy
           \- do you understand that a large increase in energy prices
              hurts poor people as well/even more than the person
              who how has to spend $50 instead of $40 to fill up gas,
              but still only see a 1% of income increase in cost of living?
              it's the same thing with global warming ... it's not like
              the main consequence will be on rich people's beach houses.
              or teaching evolution instead of biology ... the people who
              can opt out of these crazy school boards are the one's who
              get shafted.
        \_ your opinion does not matter.
           \- do you understand that a large increase in energy prices
              hurts poor people as well/even more than the person
              who how has to spend $50 instead of $40 to fill up gas,
              but still only see a 1% of income increase in cost of living?
              it's the same thing with global warming ... it's not like
              the main consequence will be on rich people's beach houses.
              or teaching evolution instead of biology ... the people who
              can opt out of these crazy school boards are the one's who
              get shafted.
              \_ I'm not filthy rich but I don't mind paying extra for
                 gas if that extra cost comes in the form of a tax that
                 goes to pay for infrastructure. Our public roads cost
                 an arm and a leg and someone has to pay for all that
                 road maintenance, emergency service, and environmental
                 cleanup. If I use those roads as a luxury (which I do),
                 then I should pay for my fair share of that road usage.
                 How much gasoline you consume is a better correlation
                 than how much money you make in a year. Joe Shmo who
                 drives his 2500 lbs Honda 5 miles a day probably damages
                 the road less than soccer mom who drives her 5000 lbs
                 SUV 20 miles a day.
                 \- i'm talking about about actual poor people ... which
                    is relevant if we're talking about "global energy/oil
                    prices" ... like people who dont have electricty and
                    only have kerosene lanterns. if we're just talking
                    about say califnornia slightly more expensive gas
                    blend for pollution purposes, then those people dont
                    really factor in, but they do when considering "the
                    big picture". does your life really change at all
                    whether gas is $2.25/gal or $2.75/gal? [i'm more
                    irritated the bay bridge toll is going to $4].
                 \_ You know all the infrastructure we have came from somewhere
                    and it wasn't paid for with criminally high levels of
                    taxation.  Ask yourself how the state brings in more money
                    than ever yet falls further into debt every year while
                    doing very little to improve infrastructure or even really
                    maintain what we have now.  There is plenty of money, it
                    is just spent poorly.
                    \_ I am not so sure that there is plenty of money.
                       Inflation has made everything so expensive.
                       Additionally, as the standard of living has risen
                       so have expectations. One example is that longer
                       lives have resulted in more medical costs. We never
                       spent money on lots of expensive procedures and
                       medications before, because they did not exist. I
                       think it is obvious that the current standard of
                       living is not sustainable long-term and will have
                       to decline to meet the rising standard of living
                       in the Third World at some less-than-current level.
                       There really isn't enough money to live like we
                       have been, hence the national debt.
                       \_ You were talking about things like public roads and
                          other infrastructure.  Did you know there are 42
                          levees in CA that are considered New Orleans quality
                          unsafe?  Anyone can see the roads are crap.
                          Emegency rooms are packed.  Follow the money.
                          Inflation has not eaten the budget.  The CA state
                          budget has ballooned up to gigantic proportions in
                          the last 15 years while inflation has remained low
                          and we still keep adding to the debt, selling bonds
                          and doing very little about our state's failing
                          infrastructure.
                          \_ I really don't think that is true. What is
                             the state spending, per person and adjusted
                             for inflation and how does it compare with past
                             years? I am sure we spent more per person back
                             in the Pat Brown "golden years" when California
                             was able to make the desert bloom, build a
                             great transportation network and a world class
                             university system. Nowadays, since Prop 13,
                             no one wants to pay for new schools, so we
                             are just living off stuff built and paid
                             university system. Nowadays, with things like
                             Prop 13, no one wants to pay for new schools,
                             so we are just living off stuff built and paid
                             for by our parents. That, compounded with the
                             sprawling McMansion problem, gives us a need
                             for more roads and less money to pay for them.
                             All the illegals don't help.
                             \_ I am the person who mentioned emergency
                                rooms. I wasn't saying that inflation per
                                se is the cause. We spend 2x the money per
                                capita now than we did 40 years ago, even
                                adjusting for inflation. When I say
                                'inflation' what I am saying is that costs
                                have risen because of increased standards.
                                That is, we are getting more for our
                                money. My example was medical treatment.
                                        \_ So you think the MediCal program
                                           is the cause of limited infrastruct-
                                           ure spending?
                                Health care costs a lot more now than it
                                did then, even adjusted for inflation, but
                                we received more for it. More regulations
                                we receive more for it. More regulations
                                (e.g. environment), longer lifespans, and
                                illegal immigration are all things that
                                are costing the State money that were not
                                really big issues in the 1950s. Add to
                                        \_ How does longer living people cost
                                           the state money?  Same question for
                                           environmental regulation.
                                that the growing population (growing
                                faster than high-paying jobs which
                                contribute to the tax base) which contributes
                                        \_ Low paying jobs don't cost the state
                                           money.
                                to the high prices of, for example, real estate
                                and utilities. This effects the State and
                                        \_ High incomes are inflationary, so
                                           you get higher real estate prices
                                           but no more real income from them.
                                           Low paying jobs don't cost the
                                           state money.
                                employers both. There is no way the State
                                can return to business as it was in the
                                1950s and 1960s, when untreated sewage
                                drained into the ocean, people died at
                                70, ESL classes were unheard of, land was
                                plentiful, and crime was low. I read that
                                        \_ Thank God, no, it can't.  But boy
                                           we sure had good roads!
                                Santa Ana spends 50% of its budget on
                                police now. I doubt that was the case
                                in 1960. Prop 13 is a red herring. LA
                                County just had a huge surplus in budget
                                because of windfall property tax generated
                                by the rising real estate market. Look at
                                        \_ Fake money.
                                           \_ Unlike pieces of paper, backed
                                              by nothing? Is that "real" money?
                                the State budget and you'll see that
                                there's almost nothing to cut except for
                                perhaps the penal system, where we spend
                                much more money than ever before.
                                \_ Nonsense.  The education budget is a
                                   ridiculous mess.
                                \- people who follow these kinds of things
                                   are well aware the real issue on the
                                   horizon is medical spending not the
                                   social security. there was an excellent
                                   article on this some months back in the
                                   ny rev books. i can dig it up, but you
                                   have to email me. --psb
                                \_ Prop 13 is *not* a Red Herring. Overall
                                   per person tax revenue plummeted after
                                   it was enacted. True, other taxes eventually
                                        \_ Because it was criminally high and
                                           forcing people from their homes.
                                           \_ Obviously you prefer shitty roads,
                                              overcrowded emergency rooms and
                                              declining schools to paying a
                                              few more percentage points of
                                              GDP to taxes. I respectfully
                                              disagree.
                                   took the place of property taxes, but they
                                   are much more cyclical, causing weird
                                   booms in tax revenue and then inconvenient
                                   busts, during recessions, right when
                                   government spending needs to be higher.
                                        \_ Gosh, you mean the people we elect
                                           to manage the state will have to
                                           take that into account and have
                                           a rainy day fund and not spend every
                                           penny plus the future with bonds?
                                   Furthermore, the decade or so of under-
                                   investment in infrastructure post-13 has
                                   put us in a rut we still haven't dug
                                   ourselves out of. I am not even going to
                                   get into the regressive effect of things
                                   like sales taxes, which replaced prop-13.
                                   \_ Yes, it's a red herring because - as
                                      you say - other taxes replaced it.
                                      We spend 2x the tax dollars per capita
                                      now than we did 40 years ago. The
                                      solution here is not to repeal Prop
                                      13, too. Infrastructure is not
                                      failing because of Prop 13. The
                                      State funds most of that anyway
                                      and the State doesn't collect
                                      property taxes.
                                      \_ I don't believe you. What is your
                                         source for your "2x" figure? We spend
                                         13% more than we did in 1990:
                                         http://www.csua.org/u/hz3
                                         Are you saying it almost doubled
                                         from 1970 to 1990? Show me your
                                         statistics.
                                         link:www.csua.org/u/hz4
                                         It also fell from 1978 to 1995.
        \_ So you're praying for global economic collapse and the deaths of
           billions.  Ok, I guess one way to save the environment is to just
           kill off humanity.  Of course your life style will be impacted in
           ways you can't even imagine but I'm figuring you're much more
           likely to be a troll than believe what you're saying.  Now I know
           soda is back in action.  Welcome, first motd troll of 2007!
           \_ I don't think a gradual ratcheting up of gasoline prices will
              cause global famine. If it goes up 10-20%/year, we will adapt.
              There will be fewer sprawling suburbs and smaller cars and yes,
              probably a slowing in global growth, but this is better than
              runaway global warming, imho.
        \_ Why do you hate America?
        \_ As the total cost of fossil fuels rises, other energy sources will
           be competitive and we'll shift to somehitng else.  The end.
           \- it's not that simple because of externalities. although it is
              true that all of a sudden were not going to have 0 oil because
              it all ran out. [so the easter island tree analogy doesnt
              quite work].
              \_ which externalities?
                 \- risk, pollution, tax policy, govt subsidy etc.
                    but i do agree [i think we're agreeing] that correcting
                    the mkt forces and moving toward a level playing field
                    between oil and other fuels is what is most likely to
                    bring about change. frankly things like preaching about
                    conservation is stupid. that just keeps things cheaper
                    for the people who dont conserve. and minor investments
                    such as smal tax credits for solar or small r&d isnt
                    going to make that much of a difference. the biggest
                    problem in teh global wamring area [as opposed to
                    "energy security"] i feel will be the "big fuck you"
                    from china, india ... i cannot see what an agreement
                    between them and the us over how to share the costs
                    of dealing with global warming will work ... it's going
                    to be even more stark than the doha round collapse.
                    \_ In what way is there not a "level playing field"
                       between oil and other fuels?  What are these other
                       fuels you're talking about?  Then you mention solar
                       but *no one* is talking about solar as a fuel source.
                       \- when the govt sells drilling rights to an oil
                          company [or spectrum rights, or western grazing
                          rights, or water rights etc] those are all
                          subsidies. when the govt [us army corps of
                                \_ How is it a subs. if they paid for it?
                                   Do you want to have food, radio, tv, and
                                   transportation?  To not sell rights to some
                                   corporation means these will all be govt
                                   provided.  No thank you.
                                   \- i am not saying the govt shouldnt
                                      sell these. but the way you sell them
                                      affects the prices you get. e.g.
                                      an auction vs the govt setting an
                                      aritificially low price for western
                                      grazing lands, giving the networks
                                      free spectrum in retun for public
                                      service messages etc. do you know about
                                      say "water farming"? ... where a famers
                                      real asset is his right to artifically
                                      cheep water which he can resell? that is
                                      bullshit ... it is just welfare for some
                                      rich farmer.
                                      \_ There are no rich farmers.  Just ADM.
                                         Anyway, you/someone mentioned a level
                                         playing field between alternative
                                         fuels but no one said what fuels.
                                         Like bio diesel?  Like ethanol?  Like
                                         what?  For many reasons these are
                                         worse than oil for fuel and make for
                                         a giant boondoggle to the farm states.
                                         Which alternative fuels were we
                                         talking about?
                          engineers?] dreges channels differently for
                          oil transportation, that is a subsidy. i am not
                          sure if costs are internalized for say pipeline
                          construction. also in cases of oil spills and
                          such, it is unclear full costs are paid.
                                \_ probably not, but that's a minor cost
                                   on the scales we're talking about.
                          note: it is quite possible other industries
                          receive efective/indirect subsidies as well,
                          such as nuclear. some of these subsidies may make
                          senes, but they exist and people should be cognizant
                          of them.
                          \_ So you'd prefer the oil companies dredge the
                             channels themselves or that they pay for the
                             USACoE to do it for them?  Let's say all of the
                             govt provided infrastructure you mentioned was
                             taken away.  Either we wouldn't have an oil
                             industry or it would just pass the costs on to
                             all of us at the pump.  So rich people are mobile
                             and empowered while the poor are screwed and the
                             middle class lags as usual picking up the bulk of
                             any tab.  Taxes won't be any lower if all these
                             services are not provided to corporations, they'll
                             just be spent on some other pork project that
                             doesn't help the average citizen.
                             \_ If the tax dollars were returned to you
                                then you could choose whether to give it
                                to the oil companies to dredge (via
                                gasoline purchases) or to do something
                                else with it. When it's a subsidy the cost
                                is hidden. It's more more useful when
                                people realize what it is that they are
                                paying for. Costs don't get "passed on" to
                                consumers. Consumers choose to absorb
                                them - or not.
                                \_ But the tax dollars won't be returned to me.
                                   They will be spent elsewhere and I'll still
                                   have to pay more for fuel.  If there was a
                                   direct link between cutting these corp.
                                   subsidies and lower taxes I'd agree with
                                   you on the rest of it, but the world does
                                   not work like that.
2007/1/30-2/1 [Uncategorized] UID:45618 Activity:nil
1/30    How do you get the wall log again?
2007/1/30 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45619 Activity:nil 76%like:45624
1/30    I can't get mutt to read my maildir dir.  What am I doing wrong?
        \_ mine works just fine with MAIL set to /var/mail/user
        Also does anyone know the correct settings to get Mail.app to play
        nice with IMAP and soda mail?
        \_  Advanced: IMAP Path Prefix: "mail"; Port: "993"; "check" Use SSL;
                      Authentication: Password.  Haven't tried using CSUA's
                      SMTP server since the *last* time soda came back up.
            \_ any idea what the path prefix would be for Thunderbird IMAP?
               (haven't been able to get anything to work for IMAP server
               directory)
2007/1/30-2/1 [Uncategorized] UID:45620 Activity:nil
1/30    If I remember correctly, there was some lost mail from around April
               \_ as far as I know, it should be "mail" as well.  You may
                  want to google for "imap path prefix" and read some
                  of the discussion/hints...
        that was recovered and that was going to be eventually delivered.
        Did this ever happen?  If not, will it?
2007/1/30-2/6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:45621 Activity:nil
1/30    Note that exim invokes pipes in .forward files directly rather than
        starting a subshell; it'll break on IFS= and similar stuff.  See
        the update to /csua/soda-changes.2007.01. -- darch
2007/1/30-2/1 [Consumer/Camera, Science/Space] UID:45622 Activity:nil
1/30    Hubble's main camera might be failing:
        http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/print?id=2832926
        \_ I thought we already knew it was completely dead?
2007/1/30-2/1 [Recreation/Dating] UID:45623 Activity:nil
1/30    http://tinyurl.com/3d7qt2
        \_ You gave us the link, why did you need to quote the whole post?
2007/1/30-2/3 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:45624 Activity:nil 76%like:45619
1/30    I can't get mutt to read my maildir dir.  What am I doing wrong?
        set mbox_type=Maildir
        \_ mine works just fine with MAIL set to /var/mail/user
        Also does anyone know the correct settings to get Mail.app to play
        nice with IMAP and soda mail?
        \_  Advanced: IMAP Path Prefix: "mail"; Port: "993"; "check" Use SSL;
                      Authentication: Password.  Haven't tried using CSUA's
                      SMTP server since the *last* time soda came back up.
            \_ any idea what the path prefix would be for Thunderbird IMAP?
               (haven't been able to get anything to work for IMAP server
               directory)
2007/1/30-31 [Recreation/Dating] UID:45625 Activity:high
1/31    Apparently this woman, claiming a 32DDD bust, has written a book
        about... having big boobs.
        There is NO WAY those are triple-D's. NONE. I doubt she's even a full
        D but... maybe. If we up her band-size to a 34 (because she's also NOT
        a 32) then we might have accurately labeled her boobs: 34-D.
        Whereas myself, on the other hand, really IS a 32-DDD (triple in some
        bras, I will confess) and these things are HUGE. If I wore a tight
        (ugly) v-neck sweater like Ms. Seligson in the picture, then my
        cleavage would be spilling out of that v-neck.
        Let's use some fruit analogies, just for the hell of it. Ms. Seligson's
        boobs look like small apples. You know, the green ones that tend to run
        tiny. Apples do not get you past a D-cup (again, IF THAT).
        My boobs? Melons. Seriously. Or grapefruits. One of my boobs is two
        (yeah, TWO) handfuls of flesh for my lucky boyfriends.
        They would need four hands just to cover all of my boobage.
        And Ms. Seligson's don't even look like a handful! If you were to
        grab those apple, there wouldn't be any over-spillage of flesh.
        Your hand would cover that boob JUST FINE.
        Which is another reason why they ain't that big. If you're grabbing
        a DDD-cup boob, you know it because it doesn't even begin to fit into
        your hand. Ugh. This is another thing that bothers me. Women talking
        about how big their racks are, how guys never look them in the
        face, etc. and the reality is that their RACKS AREN'T THAT BIG.
        When you're no longer able to sleep on your stomach because your
        incredibly huge rack would suffocate you, THEN you can talk about
        your massive mammaries.  Oh yeah, God gave me my rack, too.
        God must really, really like boobs.
        \_ Does reposting this crap really turn you on or something?
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/24    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:January:30 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>