Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:November:06 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2006/11/6 [Uncategorized] UID:45177 Activity:nil 77%like:45181
11/7    The motd.public will be frozen for 48 hours beginning at 3pm on
        Electionn Day as a "Colling Off Period."
2006/11/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:45178 Activity:low
11/6    On the timing of the Saddam verdict.  Hmm ... what to think?
        "The idea's preposterous. This is one of these tinfoil hat sort of
        things." -WH press sec Snow
         - http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1781719.htm
        "Only the naive believe it's a coincidence."
         - http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1940534,00.html
        \_ What to think?  Think for yourself.
        \_ Its all part of a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, you know the
           one that is run by the Bush BrownShirts and is responsible
           for the "hundreds" of warcrimes against dissidents across
           the country. The Cabal will do anything to keep itself in
           power. We are just cattle to them. They are preping us for
           colonization. Trust No One. -fmulder
           \- i really do think the Cockroach Republicans are only limited
              by imagination and are not at all ethics. now if some "crypto-
              anarchist" would get a job at diebold and put in a virus to
              cause mass failure on election day, instead of cracking DMA
              technology, that would be interesting. you have to wonder
              what the aftermath would look like if there simply was no
              result to a large fraction of the elections in the country.
              [i think this is a really tricky area to come up with remedies.
              it's one when when basically the election is solid with a few
              one off problems, but mass problems would be unprecidented].
              \_ yes all corruption is republican.  democrats are all squeaky
                 clean and golden.  you are brilliant.  your solution to your
                 false sense of republican-only corruption is voter machine
                 anarchy.  great.  all that will happen is setting a new date
                 and doing them on paper followed by lawsuits about how the
                 ballot format disenfranchised stupid people.
                 \- i didnt say the democrats were clean. i did say the new
                    breed of cockroach republicans have charted new terrain
                    in corruption and sleaze. sure it's possible some Dems
                    have it in them, but until they do it, it's a thought
                    crime. here i include things like inter-census
                        \_ $90k in your fridge isn't a thought crime.  and
                           he's still in office and has his committe position
                           too, btw.
                    gerrymandering, signing statements, something like the
                        \_ gerrymandering is a cooperative two party effort.
                    cheney energy tast force is vastly more secretive than
                    the hillary health care one. i thought Billhary had plenty
                        \_ secrets are not corruption nor a sign of it in and
                           of themselves.
                    of sleazy with filegate and travelgate and such or
                    rostenkowsky stealing postage stamps but delay, brownie,
                    are all taking it to a new level. this is a far cry from
                        \_ not really. same old, same old.  i see no real
                           difference.  they just have different sub-
                           specialties of corruption and an equal share of
                           the generic stuff.
                    the part of people like warren rudman, for example ... or
                    even alan simpson or o hatch. at least mccain is
                    apologetic over the keating five episode.
                        \_ mccain is a scum bag.  i dont want his apology.
                           i want his head on a pike with all the rest of
                           the corrupt scum bags in DC.  his apology has
                           no value.  apologise for a joke gone bad? sure.
                           apologise for criminal activity?  sorry, pal, try
                           prison instead.
                           \_ So McCain gets the death sentence for bribery
                              but Cheney gets a pass for colluding to offer
                              no-competition contracts to Halliburton? If it's
                              death for the goose, it's at least prison for the
                              gander.
                              \_ Pike em all but I'd settle for prison.  And
                                 I do mean *all* regardless of party.  The
                                 Congress would be mighty close to empty if
                                 we really took corruption seriously.
                                 \_ Agreed. --erikred
                                    \- if you think mccain and cheney are
                                       comparable, i dont think we can
                                       really have a conversation [speaking
                                       personally]. mccain has done some
                                       fucked up things [agan keating 5],
                                       but he's also done some thing waaaaay
                                       beyond almost all others and they are
                                       things you cant make up or posture.
                                       i mean not only was he tortured but
                                       was super connected and could have
                                       gotten himself out of it. he adopted
                                       child from bangladesh ... that probably
                                       wasnt motived by it being good press,
                                       his son is in the marines etc.
                                    \_ So do you guys believe that the
                                       politicians presently in power are
                                       somehow born bad, and we just need
                                       to replace them with Good(TM) people?
                                       This makes no sense to me.  The problem
                                       is not that we happen to have bad
                                       people in Washington, but rather
                                       that we have a culture in Washington
                                       that brings out the worst in people.
                                       I have no idea how to fix this culture,
                                       and I'm not convinced it will ever
                                       be fixed, but I'm positive that just
                                       changing the face of the corruption
                                       won't do it.
                                       \_ I can't speak for pp, but I don't
                                          think they're all bad people. I think
                                          we have a system in place now that
                                          encourages corruption and moral
                                          ambiguity (i.e., a disincentive to
                                          avoid conflicts interest). There are
                                          tools that could be used to fix this
                                          (or at least make it unattractive),
                                          but there's a culture of back-
                                          scratching and mutual-benefit cover-
                                          ups that makes real reform unlikely.
                                          Campaing finance reform would be an
                                          excellent step in the right direction
                                          but a non-partisan, independent body
                                          to investigate corruption might be a
                                          better idea. The problem is that even
                                          a "Grand Inquisitor" office is
                                          vulnerable to corruption and
                                          political stacking, and so the entire
                                          cycle keeps rolling. --erikred
                                       \_ I don't know.  My current working
                                          theory is that, for the most part,
                                          only power-hungry megalomaniacs
                                          are willing to go into politics.
                                          Normal honest people would quit
                                          before they ever got to even the
                                          state level.
                                       \_ I believe that line about power
                                          corrupting and absolute power, etc.
                                          Term limits and none of this merry-
                                          go-round stuff to a different
                                          district stuff.  Serve your time as
                                          a *public service* and get the hell
                                          out.  It sickens me everytime some
                                          senator retires after 6+ terms in
                                          office and they have him voting from
                                          his death bed wheeled into the
                                          chamber.
              \_ Non-event. The media would bluster about it for a week or
                 so, until some juicy sex scandal popped up. Most people
                 would just say let's do it over w/ paper ballots and the
                 country would go about its business. I'm all for this plan
                 b/c it would surely return us to paper ballots and delayed
                 election results. Delayed results means the media would
                 have nearly nothing to pontificate about and we would have
                 to be subjected to endless drivel about red-blue state
                 "seismic" shifts on election day.
2006/11/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:45179 Activity:moderate
11/5    wtf is this?
        http://www.pollingreport.com/2006.htm
        Can someone explain the rapid turn in polls?  Don't tell me it's
        GOP TV advertising; but it would be the only principal reason.
        \_ In case you haven't noticed for many polls out there you need to
           add +10-15 points in favor of the R. This is because conservatives
           in general are very hushed about their intentions and they don't
           like to take polls or talk to pollsters.
           \_ The same reason why you never hear anyone claiming to be R
              in SF even though 1/5 are registered R. They'd get beat up
              or ridiculed if their friends find out. It's worse being R
              in SF than being a gay man in Tennessee.
           \_ The same reason why you never hear anyone claiming to be R
              in SF even though 1/5 are registered R. They'd get beat up
              or ridiculed if their friends find out.
              \_ So you think the open minded liberal and friendly folks in
                 the SF area would physically assault someone for being R?
                 \_ Absolutely. SF is tolerant to anyone liberal. That's
                    why you never hear the other 1/5 of the voice. They're
                    scared of liberals.
                 \_ No just SF. Many parts of the south bay as well.
           \_ That goes for exit polling too, apparently.  In most countries
              exit polls are used to see if the election was fair.  For some
              reason, in the United States conservatives don't like admitting
              they voted for their candidates.  Either that or the election
              is not fair, which can't be possible, right?
              \_ Elections have been rigged in this country before either
                 of the current parties existed.  That goes without saying.
                 As far as exit polls go, yes, I believe there is a difference
                 between some small third world country doing exit polls and
                 the US spanning 3 time zones with exit poll reports coming
                 out from the east coast before the west coast polls have
                 closed.  It isn't that hard to tweak the numbers and there
                 is a very partisan reason for doing so (to make late voters
                 not bother).  As far as talking to exit poll people, no, I
                 absolutely don't have the time to waste talking to some exit
                 poll taker for whatever media outlet.  There is no value or
                 requirement to do so in order to support my candidate so I
                 wouldn't do it.  I don't 'admit' to having voted for my
                 candidate(s).  I just 1) don't care to spend my time telling
                 you and 2) don't think it's any of your business anyway.
        \_ Yes.  Because polls are a measure of who is being polled.  In
           tight races with small samples it only takes a small change in
           the pollees to shift the final numbers a significant amount.
           The pollees to shift the final numbers a significant  amount.
           That's why I've said for years that polls are useless. In a wide
           margin race you don't need one and in small margins everything
           falls within the margin of error so there's no point to it.
2006/11/6-7 [Academia/GradSchool/MBA, Academia/GradSchool] UID:45180 Activity:moderate
11/5    Anyone here get an MS in CS? Did it help your career advancement
        or earnings? Do you wish you would've gotten a different MS
        degree instead? Was it worth the time and expense?
        \_ I was working on a MS in EECS when I went to a law school open
           house for the free pizza. Switching to ls has been the best
           decision I have ever made. My starting salary (w/o bonus) is
           1.5-2x what I could have made as an engineer w/ a MS. [ I know
           that you asked wrt another MS degree, but if you are considering
           grad school, I think you should keep an open mind re the subject ]
           \_ Well, assuming you could make $150K with the MS, are you
              saying you are *starting* at $200+K, because I find that hard
              to believe. If true, maybe we're all in the wrong field.
              Also, did you go to a top-ranked law school? What about the
              loss of earnings while going to law school? Most of the
              better ones are full-time, unlike, say, MS EECS.
              \_ $150K w/ a MS EECS? I think you are overestimating the
                 starting salary for a MS EECS. I'd say it was closer
                 to $100K (at least that is what we would offer to new
                 hires w/ a MS EECS).
                 Re loss of earnings: You can do part-time at many ls.
                 I worked part-time as an engineer and did school full
                 time to avoid loosing money. Its harder but at least
                 I'm graduating w/o any debt.
                 Re top rated law school: I went to a mediocre ls, but
                 I was near the top of my class and I went into patent
                 work (which pays more than say a DA or transactional
                 work b/c of the initial burden). The salary is even
                 higher if you were to go to a really good ls. The main
                 problem is that you have to deal w/ a lot of jackasses.
                 work). The salary is even higher if you were to go to
                 a really good ls. The main problem w/ the law is that
                 you have to deal w/ a lot of jackasses.
                     \- so how annoying are the legal people? ... like
                        annoying face to face or keep you up at night
                        grinding your teeth annoying? also do you think
                        this is just the personality of some of the people
                        in the field or a product of the nature of the
                        field ... e.g. rather than cooperating to find an
                        efficient solution, people pointlessly being
                        difficult, or shoudl i say dillatory, just to
                        be a pain in the ass and raise costs to the other
                        side.
                        \_ Some are keep you up at night grinding your
                           teeth annoying, some are just annoying in
                           that the way they practice law is to be as
                           difficult as possible on every single thing.
                           I think that the profession attracts people
                           who are agressive and egotistical and rewards
                           that type of behavior in many cases.
                 \_ I didn't say *starting* salary for a MS EECS. If you
                    meant that, I apologize. I took "what you could make"
                    to mean "what you could make" and not "what you would
                    start out at with no experience".
                    \_ Sorry, I misunderstood. I agree that you might be
                       able to make ~ $135-$150K w/ MS EECS + experience.
                       But that is about as high as I've seen people go
                       (principal engineer, sr. staff eng., &c.). In
                       comparison, $135-$150K is what one makes right out
                       of LS and it keeps going up after that. Even if
                       you decide to not work at a firm and go to work in
                       gc's office of a decent sized co. you will be making
                       approx. what a sr. staff makes but w/ 9-5 hrs.
                       \_ Don't IP lawyers make quite a bit more money than
                          your average corporate law drone?
                          \_ Corporate law drones may make less than
                             the number above, but if you already have
                             a BS EECS, why would you do anything but
                             IP (Patent) Law?
                             Not all IP Law pays as well as Patent.
                             Trademark, for instance, pays somewhat
                             less and there isn't as much job security.
                             Copyright is okay, but you pretty much
                             have to live in LA or NYC to get really
                             good work.
                          \_ The range I gave above, is for patent
                             work. Sorry for not making that clear.
                             You are right, not everything pays as
                             well as patent work. Copyright, Trademark
                             and IP licensing (all "IP"), pay a little
                             big less.
                             bit less.
                             Corporate can pay the same as patent, but
                             it really depends on how well you did in
                             school and whether corporate law is in
                             vouge when you graduate. There are lots of
                             of other practice areas that pay less than
                             being an engineer (Crim, Transactional,
                             Estate Planning, Family Law, Real Estate,
                             Civil Rights, &c.), but if you have a BS
                             in EECS, there isn't really a financial
                             reason to go into something other than
                             patent/copyright practice.
                             \_ Does a phd give you a bump in pay as a
                                patent lawyer straight out of school?
                                \_ Depends on the field. PhD in any
                                   pharma related subject (o-chem,
                                   immunology, &c) can give you a $10K
                                   or more edge. In EECS, materials,
                                   &c. I don't think so.
                       \_ $140K right out of law school? That seems high
                          compared to the salary calculators on the web,
                          unless you went to Harvard Law. What about law
                          school vs. MBA?
                          \_ I don't know what the salary calculator say
                             but this is the starting rate at most reasonable
                             sized firms in the Bay Area and NYC.
                          \_ Please see above. The number I gave was for
                             patent work. I'm guessing the salary calc.
                             are based more on general practice at mid-
                             to large sized firms, which doesn't really
                             pay as well.
        \_ I'm in business school but will probably make <= when I
           graduate. I was making $87k + ~$10k bonus/stock before I went back
           to school. But I'm getting my MBA b/c I don't want to be an
           engineer anymore. What's the ROI/payback of my MBA? I don't know,
           I could probably have transitioned into business at my old job,
           but getting the MBA is more general and involves more drinking.
2006/11/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:45181 Activity:high 77%like:45177 75%like:45186
11/7    The motd.public will be frozen for 48 hours beginning at 3pm on
        Election Day as a "Cooling Off" period.
        \_ Post this on motd.official if it's real.
        \_ I suppose this is a troll.  --PM
        \_ Yeah, right.  Better to let people vent. Troll anyway, most likely.
           \_ If the motd is locked how can we stay informed about the
              "hundreds" of incidents of voter intimidation and
              disenfranchisement committed by the Bush BrownShirts?
        \_ Post this on motd.official if it's real.
2006/11/6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:45182 Activity:high
11/7    Two spaces after a period(.) is grammatically correct.  There is no
        reason to edit them all down to one space.  K?
        \_ The Chicago Manual of Style's Editors disagree w/ you:
           http://tinyurl.com/y6r2qz (chicagomanualofstyle.org)
           \_ All this one person says is that in our WEEB2.0enabled world,
              two spaces is less efficient and he doesn't find it easier to
              read.  In his opinion which he makes clear is just his singular
              opinion.  He also makes it clear that 2 spaces is how many people
              were taught in school (and I'm guessing still are if they're
              taught anything at all).  Certainly the difference is not
              worth editing other people's posts to eliminate what you and
              this one copy editor agree is an unnecessary space.  At no
              point does he say it is grammatically incorrect.  He just doesn't
              like it.
           \_ And here's the techie of WEEB2.0 techie writer types discussing
              it.  You'll note it is a discussion.  There is no right or wrong.
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_archive_(spaces_after_a_full_stop/period
              http://preview.tinyurl.com/t3s7d
           \_   _____
               /     \      _n_  ______     ________
               |Oink!|_   _/o  \/      \@  /C.M.o.S.\
               \_____/ \ O_             )=(  ____|_  \____
                           \___/\______/   \ \     \_____ |
                                 ||  ||     ||           ||
               \_ Hmm, I wonder who I should go w/, the CMoS or
                  some anon coward on "teh motd" who posts ascii
                  art in lieu of making an actual argument?
                  \_ The well-reasoned response at top summarizes my feelings.
                     --PP (pig-poster)
        \_ Two spaces are inefficient and should be banned. It uses up too
           much bandwidth and disk space, and aids our country's enemies by
           making us buy more cheap Chinese hard disks and upping our balance
           of trade deficit. Patriots use one space. -John
           \_ You ' ve  convinced me .I  shall  no  longer  use  two  spaces
              after  a  period.In  the  name  of  Freedom  Everywhere , I
              shall  use  just  once  to  save  the  extra  spaces  for  our
              boys  over   there .
           \_ Yup, especially that there is no space after periods in the
              Chinese language.  (Basically there is no space in the
              language.)  In the next round of trade talks we should demand
              Chinese to add spaces in Chinese, or else we would impose high
              tarriffs on Chinese hard disks because of unfair trade practices!
        \_ What about two spaces after state abbreviation and ZIP code in US
        \_ What about two spaces between state abbreviation and ZIP code in US
           addresses?  I can't find an explanation for two spaces on
           http://www.usps.com
        \_ itisfarmoreefficienttogetridofallspacesandpunctuationpleasemake
           futuremotdpostingsformattedlikethisone
2006/11/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:45183 Activity:nil
11/7    wtf #2?  The most recent poll shows the Dems with a 20-point lead
        http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/06/demos.poll/index.html
        \_ Sigh, I've been saying on the motd for a long time that polls are
           all whacky voodoo bs and just got mocked for it.  Welcome to
           reality.
           \_ The scariest part of being ahead in the polls is that it
              encourages voter apathy when "your" party is ahead in the polls.
2006/11/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45184 Activity:low
11/7    The Press at War: What ever happened to patriotic reporters?
        http://www.opinionjournal.com/federation/feature/?id=110009203
        \_ The country at war: What ever happened to just conflicts?
        \_ OP, do you actually believe any of this crap?  Do you think
           the sectarian thugs who are making our life miserable in
           Iraq read the NY Times?  Also the writer of this article seems
           to think that Iraq would soon be edging out Irvine, CA
           in Time's annual Best Places To Live Poll if only newspaper
           owners took a firmer hand in reigning in the evil liberal
           press.  I love the WSJ's news operations but they must really
           store their editorial people on a ship far, far away from
           other sources of information. - danh
           \_ You're confused and miss the point if you think this is about
              thugs in Iraq reading American papers.  Wars are won by
              breaking the will of the enemy to keep fighting.  If your own
              press breaks the will of your own people then you've lost no
              matter what is going on in the actual war zone.  Your Irvine
              comment is rhetorical noise and ignored.
           \_ 'justice' is not an absolute.  There is no such thing as a
              'just conflict'.
              \_ 'Intelligence' is not an absolute, there are just people who
                 are far from it.
                 \_ Did you even read the link?
                    \_ I'm reading it.  Who is this guy?  He's comparing
                       the Iraq invasion to WW2, and while he's at it,
                       blaming the Vietnam loss on leftist protestors.\
                       Even more powerful than the all powerful leftist
                       blaming the Vietnam loss on leftist protestors.
                       Even more powerful than the all powerful leftist
                       protestors was the several million residents of
                       Vietnam willing to die to the very last man to
                       kick the invading force out.
                       \_ Specifically he said the Tet Offensive was a win for
                          the US but mischaracterised as a loss and the media
                          allowed that wrong to stay uncorrected in the
                          public's view of the war.  The TO was a devastating
                          loss for the north but you never knew it if you only
                          listened to American media at the time.  How is he
                          wrong on that?
                          What is your issue with his WW2/Iraq comparison which
                          is specifically about how reporters reported in each
                          war?
                          \_ You don't get it, do you.  We can win all
                             the giant military victories we want, witness
                             our quick victory over the regular Iraqi
                             forces in this war.  We can win 100 Tet
                             offensives.  You can loudly point out the fact
                             we won every battle in Vietnam.  This is not
                             how you fight a guerilla insurgency.  Those
                             "hearts and minds" guys really did have the right
                             idea.  By letting Iraq spiral into sectarian
                             violence with roving guerrilla death squads
                             on all 3 sides run Iraq, we are doomed to failure,
                             no matter how many biased Fox or NYTimes
                             articles are written.
                             \_ As usual the War Nerd is right on on this one:
                                http://www.exile.ru/2006-November-03/the_doctrine_of_asymmetrical_war.html
                                http://preview.tinyurl.com/u6zec (exile.ru)
                                \_ http://www.exile.ru/2002-April-21/war_nerd.html
                                   He's a data-entry tech in Fresno.  He has
                                   some points about the changing nature of
                                   war but he sure as hell doesn't say that
                                   winning hearts and minds is the way to go.
                             \_ Vietnam was lost in the media right here at
                                home, not in Vietnam.  And 100 Tet Offensives
                                would have wiped out N.Vietnam about 8 times
                                over to the last man, woman, and child, but
                                I'm sure you didn't mean that literally.  The
                                hearts and minds guys have it wrong.  No one
                                tried to win the hearts and minds of anyone
                                in Germany, Japan, Italy, or any other place
                                the US or any other war has ever been won.
                                Wars are won by killing people until they
                                stop hitting back.  Obviously roaming death
                                squads in Iraq is Bad(tm), but you're not
                                going to win the hearts and minds of death
                                squads.  They must be killed and that is one
                                of the many failures on our part: we are
                                actually trying to win over those people
                                instead of just killing them.
                                \_ This isn't WWII anymore.  That's not how
                                   war works anymore, especially not in an
                                   occupied country.
                                   \_ Of course it isn't however no one is
                                      going to win the hearts and minds of
                                      the "roving guerilla death squads".
                                      Especially for the largest ones such
                                      as Al Muq Tadr (however its spelled)
                                      which has a sizable force and known
                                      leadership.  The reason these guys are
                                      still around is they are part of the
                                      tribal power structure holding up the
                                      current PM.  All that tribal garbage
                                      needs to be stepped on and buried or
                                      they will fight a real civil war, not
                                      this pansy thing they're doing now.
                                      We have 130k or so troops there the
                                      last I knew.  They patrol?  For what?
                                      To be sniper and IED targets?  They
                                      should either be out there mopping up
                                      a la Faluja or they should come home
                                      now and just let it fall to crap.
                                \_ I don't think this works with Shiites.
                                   They LIKE being killed.  It just
                                   reaffirms in their minds their martyr
                                   complex.  How do you defeat an enemy
                                   that only gets stronger when you kill
                                   them?  I really don't know.
                                   \_ I agree that some small percentage of
                                      them are a-ok with the getting killed
                                      thing, but tell me this, if pure force
                                      can't keep them down then how did Saddam
                                      keep the majority population from taking
                                      over 25+ years ago?  Why was there no
                                      endless civil war between the Sunni and
                                      Shia?
                                    \_ They really should put Saddam back
                                       in charge.  Seriously.
                \_ Also the writer lectures at Pepperdine, home of
                   more and more batshit crazy person Ben Stein.  What
                   happened to him?  He didn't seem so crazy in the
                   movies.
                   \- did you see the infamous BSTEIN - PKRUGMAN
                      "i won the john bates clark medal; you are a
                      game show host" exchange?
        \_ Anyone who says "authorization to use force == authorization to do
           absolutely anything he 'needs' to" is not worth reading.
           \_ Where'd he say that?
              \- james q wilson is pretty famous. mayor guiliani probably
                 got his crime fighting ideas from JQW. it;s called the
                 "broken window" theory [focus on small crimes to deter a
                 lawlessness culture] athough i believe there is some
                 cintroversy about who really came up with the idea ...
                 as well as controvery about the effectiveness.
                 he's one of the intellectuals favored by a number of
                 conservatives but he's not a wacko loser like
                 victor david hansen.
                 \_ Uhm ok, I know broken window theory.  Where did he say
                    the bit about auth-to-use-force = auth-to-do-abs-anything?
2006/11/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:45185 Activity:nil
11/7    Sample questions for China's driving test:
        http://www.bookofjoe.com/2006/11/driving_in_chin.html
        \_ I was in China earlier this year. They are crazy. People there
           use their horns like we use turn signals. Also, one time my driver
           missed a freeway offramp, so rather than continuing onto the next
           exit, he just drove the opposite way on the subsequent onramp.
           \_ which part of China were you at?
              \_ Shenzhen/Guangzhou
        \_ The "correct" answer for #3 is B?  That's what you should do if you
           want to protect yourself, but I can't believe this is the official
           correct answer.
2006/11/6-8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:45186 Activity:nil 75%like:45181
11/7    The motd.public, http://cnn.com, http://nytimes.com, the AP wire, and all local
        news services will be frozen for 48 hours beginning at 3pm on
        Election Day as a "Cooling Off" period.
        \_ Yeah, right.  Better to let people vent. Troll anyway, most likely.
           \_ If the motd is locked how can we stay informed about the
              "hundreds" of incidents of voter intimidation and
              disenfranchisement committed by the Bush BrownShirts?
        \_ Post this on motd.official if it's real.
        \_ all hail our fearless politburo^Wleaders
2006/11/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign] UID:45187 Activity:nil
11/6    Good grief:  China's foreign reserves top $1 trillion.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6120906.stm  -John
        \_ Why don't they spend some of that money on their POS country?
           The place is a cesspool, but it's all good because they are
           sitting on $1 T cash.
           \_ If they were to spend it, it would be on military spending
              They have been increasing their annual military spending by
              double-digit percentages for many years.
              \_ Agreed. Also, remember that the PRC is an oligarchy, not a
                 democracy. Benefits are doled out as rewards for service to
                 the party, not on the basis of need.
              \_ Maybe they should focus on their polluted, shithole country.
           \_ the #1 rule in China is stability
              \- i'm trying to stay out of these kinds of discussions
                 beyond leaving ptrs. if you are interested in this
                 and related topics, see:
                 http://www.frbsf.org/economics/pbc/index.html
                 (teh "pacific basin notes" are pretty accessible)
                 the feds will also send you all of their publications
                 the fed res bank will also send you all of their publications
                 for free. obtrivia: Janet Yellin of ucb dept econ is the head
                 of the SF fed. she is also married to ucb econ nobel
                 george akerlof.
2006/11/6-7 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:45188 Activity:nil
11/6    http://csua.org/u/hdu (mysanantonio.com)
        http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=joseph+statue
        Bury a figurine of St. Joseph on your property, and the power of
        the Lord will help you sell your home
        \_ Sounds very feng shui
2006/11/6 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:45189 Activity:moderate
11/7    I'd like to thank all absentee voters for making it impossible to know
        the outcome of this election on Wednesday.
        \_ I'd like to thank all the NeoCons and Jesus worshippers who
           don't participate in polls AND vote the last minute. I thank
           for our glorious victories in 2000 and 2004. Surprise!
        \_ your welcome. -absentee voter
        \_ ur welcome. -absentee voter
           \_ ^your^you're
              \_ ^y^Y
        \_ ur w31c0me! -4b53nt33 v073r
        \_ It was impossible to know even without absentee voting.
2006/11/6 [Science/Space] UID:45190 Activity:nil
11/6    Homeowners: Anyone have a swimming pool and know how much it costs
        to repair it? My mother's swimming pool needs repairs, and the
        estimate is about $4000. The following needs to be repaired: 1.
        Waterfall is cracked; leaks, does not hold water; needs to be
        repaired. 2. Tiles in jacuzzi are cracked, missing; needs to be
        replaced.  3. tiles in pool are missing; needs to be replaced.
        4. Crack in bottom of pool; starts in shallow end and runs to
        middle of pool; should be repaired.  5. spillway into pool is
        cracked needs to be repaired.  6. Pool border needs bonding.
        7. Rough edges of pool rocks need to be smoothed.  8. Flagstone
        around pool is cracked and needs repairing.  9. After all pool
        repairs have been completed, the expansion joint needs to be
        repaired.  10. Patio pool area surface needs to be re-painted.
        Water will need to be drained for this job. Does $4000 sound
        reasonable to you guys? Thanks.
        \_ Get several bids and compare.
        \_ Agree, get more bids and compare.  From the long list you posted
           I'd guess $4k is a low offer, and beware of 'extra charges' if you
           let the contracter take that job.  The cracks & leak are especially
           troubling.
2006/11/6-8 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45191 Activity:nil
11/6    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15590729/site/newsweek/from/RS.2
        "Saddam and the Republicans"
2006/11/6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45192 Activity:nil
11/6    Why is Cheney's hunting trip news, and election tampering
        and HELLO THE UNITED STATES HAS GIVEN UP ON FUNDING THE
        RECONSTRUCTION OF IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HELLO !!!!!!!!!!!!
        BLING BLING BLING BLING BEEP BEEP BRRRRRRRRRRWAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!!
        I can't do the car alarm thing properly anyway WTF.
        \_ Were you looking for vr00p! vr00p! vr00p!?  And why is Iraq
           protected by a car alarm?
        \_ Hello, Mark Foley brought down by being dirty to a page, not by
           general shitbagness.  Tom "The Hammer" DeLay brought down by
           money fiddling, not by general shitbagness.  There's kind of a trend
           here.  I think the US needs an emperor and a Ministry of Truth to
           keep the slobs happy.  -John
2006/11/6-7 [Computer/Rants] UID:45193 Activity:nil
10/6    Bill Gates donated $48K to Democrats!
        http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Bill_Gates.php
        \_ l4m3.  now tell motd why you're l4m3.
2006/11/6-7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:45194 Activity:nil
11/6    MOTD boob guy strikes again: Can anyone read the small prints below
        "Goals" on the poster at link:www.csua.org/u/hdx (NSFW)?  Serious
        answers please.  Does anyone know where I can get such a poster?
        Thanks in advance.
        \_ "Focus on your goals...just don't get caught focusing."
           http://tinyurl.com/ylzugq but hurry, auction only lasts until
           Nov. 8.  You're welcome, I love a challenge.  Next?  -John
        \_ Damn that'd look good in the office.  Might be a lil too non-PC
           though, sadly.
2006/11/6 [Uncategorized] UID:45195 Activity:kinda low
11/6    emarkp, why don't you like to admit you voted for R anymore?
        \_ Hi troll. When did you stop beating your wife? -emarkp
           (Hint: the point is, your premise is incorrect.)
           \_ emarkp, when did you stop waterboarding your wife?
2006/11/6-8 [Politics/Domestic/California, ERROR, uid:45196, category id '18005#6.55' has no name! , ] UID:45196 Activity:nil
11/6    Taking a page from Rove, the GOP robocalls to the point of harassment--
        on behalf of their opponents:
        http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/06/2011251
        (Slashdot link leads to multiple articles in multiple locales.)
        How can anyone think of this as a valid campaign tactic?
        \_ as I understand it, these calls are originated by the national
           GOP committee.  they hired "Conquest Communications Group":
           http://www.conquestgroup.com
2006/11/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:45197 Activity:nil
11/6    http://safercolorado.org/initiative_language
        I don't get it.  Where are people supposed to obtain these now-legal
        < 1oz quantities of marijuana?  This feels like legalizing employment
        of illegal immigrants while keeping undocumented immigration illegal.
        \_ They aren't supposed to.  It's a symptom of the public having
           a split opinion on the issue.  The net effect is a half-assed bill.
        \_ They can't buy it, but if it is found on someone's person they
           can't get arrested/have their car taken from them/etc.
           \_ You're missing the point.  "Legal to own but (effectively) illegal
              to aquire" is stupid.
              \_ Grow?  -John
2006/11/6-7 [Recreation/Dating, Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:45198 Activity:kinda low
11/6    What do you guys do when you have continual impure thoughts?
        I will not elaborate what they are but I can't seem to get
        my mind off of these thoughts.
        \_ http://www.moonmac.com/Mormon_masturbation.html
        \_ Nuke the motd.
        \_ impure thoughts?  this is a joke right?
           \_ No I'm serious. There's a really cute blond girl at my work
              place. I have absolutely no interest in her except for sex.
              She's a bit fat but otherwise very cute. I'm obsessed about
              having sex with her and that's all I can think about at work.
              It's driving me nuts. By the way masterbation works!!! -op
              \_ http://csua.org/u/he6 Code Monkey song for you.
        \_ masturbate.  duh.  not joking.  suddenly, you can concentrate on
           other things again!  amazing!  (sex obviously the preferred option,
           but somehow i'm guessing that's not a viable option for you)
           \_ CRACK ONE OUT, BABY.
        \_ I had sex twice on Saturday night, came home and masturbated
           4 times (Sunday), today I am up to #5.  Tomorrow I have
           to badger people into not voting for the abortion
           notification proposition so I won't have a lot of time. - furious
           \_ This is kind of insane.  Are you sure you don't have a brain
              tumor which is causing insane sexual desire?  Maybe you should
              see a doctor.  Or exercise a lot.  I find that 2hrs/day of
              exercise suppresses libido.
              \_ I'm running late this morning so I googled for
                 "Brianna Briggs" and had myself 1.  Gotta start my
                 day now. - furious
2006/11/6-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:45199 Activity:nil
11/6    US Army recruiters lie to get people to enlist:
        http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2626032&page=1
        \_ This is news how exactly?  I was looking for info on ROTC while
           applying for college, and made the mistake of asking at a
           recruiting station (long since closed, fuckers) about how one goes
           about becoming an officer.  The shit they put me through and told
           me was absolutely amazing.  -John
           \_ So you didn't join the Waffen-SS after all?
           \- i think the news or rather the "new" part is the country
              is at war now. it's one thing to BS about benefits and
              such, it seems another to lie to a direct question "will
              i end up in iraq". and it is sad we dont consider it
              "news" that mlitary recruiters are the same species as
              gym salesmen and cell phone vendors. the real or the
              "big" issues here is obvious, so i wont belabor it.
              \_ It surprises me that you feel there is a difference.  The
                 tactics they use to get people to sign up are very low, and
                 I can see how someone without much education would fall for
                 it easiily.  I recall the same shit during Iraq #1, but
                 nobody made as much of a stink over it because not as many
                 people were dying.  They are salesmen, they have a quota to
                 meet, and the company's in trouble.  Quotas just got upped.
                 I don't differentiate between lying to get people into an
                 organization whose nature it is that you might get killed,
                 whether people are actually dying or not.  -John
                 \- well i dont think there is a bright line about what
                    falls under "buyer (recruit) beware" and something that
                    crosses the line. but sometimes "you know it when you
                    see it". for example, if you are buying a house but you
                    never bother to discover there is a frat house next door,
                    that's likely your fault. but in another case a friend
                    of a friend bought a house in los gatos and the sale was
                    reversed after 6mos because it turned out the house seller
                    had asked a autobody shop [or some other kind of industrial
                    operation] not to operate when he was showing the house.
                    [now if he hadnt colluded but had just picked a time when
                    the place was closed, maybe that would have passed muster].
                    there might have been other sleazy dealings too. i didnt
                    know the exact details but i had relatively little sympathy
                    for the people in gulf war 1 to bailed on their obligations
                    after taking advantage of the college and other benefits.
                    i would hope that given you are dealing with people
                    probably in the 16-20 range, it is potentially a matter of
                    life and death ... and certainly a major lifestyle choice,
                    and it is your govt after all, military recruitment would
                    be a more sober and serious and solemn process, but we
                    cerainly no better than that dont we. so we probably
                    are in 90% agreement ... but i suppose i see this
                    though the "big issues" [national service, wealth and
                    opportunity etc] rather than focusing on the sleaziness
                    of the army's salesmen. in re: the "i dont differentiate"
                    comment: consider the informed consent: everybody no
                    matter how dumb or how young who is more conscious than
                    terry schivo knows there is some chance of getting
                    killed or hurt in the military ... since it even
                    happens in training etc. people also know that your
                    chance of getting hurt/maimed or killed go way up
                    if you are sent to iraq ... it probably doesnt matter
                    whether that probability is .5% or .1% ... everyone
                    knows it is high enough to take notice of. but what
                    people dont know is what is the probability of their
                    being sent to iraq/afganistan upon joining the military
                    now ... is it 5% or 80%? further, they should reasonable
                    believe that the govt representative will either say
                    i dont know or not massively lie to them. expecting an
                    18yr old to "expect" the govt to lie to them doesnt seem
                    reasonable. although it's starting to be.
                    \- maybe this is a good example to bring out some of
                       my thinking: we think of cosmetic surgeons as perhaps
                       a little sleazy [the beverly hills kind, not the
                       charity and military ones]. and a patient really is
                       a customer and should be on the alert to beig pitched,
                       oversold, upsold etc ... i dont have much sympathy for
                       a young impressionable girl in for a nose job getting
                       talked into a lip puffing sugery "while your at it".
                       but if your real doctor says he hears something
                       "funny" with your mitral valve and you need to pay
                       more money to be probed so he can buy a new titaniam
                       golf device, that is totally beyond the pale since
                       there really may not be any good way for you to protect
                       your interests. you are totally in his hands ... that's
                       why this is supposed to be a relationship of solmn
                       trust [with threat of malpractice] rather than a
                       consumer relationship. so the ideal answer isnt
                       the consumer/patient/recruit should be careful in
                       both cases but society sould hold the person in the
                       position of trust to a higher standard ... unfortunately
                       that ideal doesnt always happen and perhaps caveat
                       emptor is "min max" strategy.
                    \_ Personal responsibility aside (if you're signing up
                       for the army, I'd hope that you are thinking about
                       what you are doing), there's a pretty major difference
                       between lying to sell aluminum siding and lying to get
                       someone to join the national "we can fuck up your life
                       send you to a place where you have a real possibility
                       of getting your ass brought home in a box, and all that
                       on false pretenses" club.  I don't care if you're in
                       a war or not, it's criminal.  -John
2006/11/6 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:45200 Activity:low 79%like:45207
11/6    1A:
        1B:
        1C:
        1D:
        1E: .
        \_ None of the above because running your failed state via
           proposition to purchase basic structural needs and services
           while using the general fund for pork is nutty and doomed: .
           \_ So, how much of the general fund is used for pork?  It does
              seem crazy to borrow money for basic structure, but it's
              pretty obvious the CA legislature isn't going to become sane
              anytime soon.
              \_ In the last 3 years, tax revenue has grown by about 22% and
                 spending about 28%.  You tell me -not pp
           \_ None of the 1*'s are propositions.  They're all either amendments
              to passed initiatives (1A) or bond measures which the legislature
              approved, but which by CA law require direct voter approval to
              pass.  Bonds used to be (and in most other states are) sold
              without direct voter approval.
              \_ ok, ok, I'm voting for 1a but not the rest.
        \_ I'm definitely no on 1C.  The problem with housing in CA won't
           be solved by the govt. giving handouts.  Lifiting building
           restrictions would do a lot more.
        \_ McClintock on the props.  As usual, good on bonds.
           http://www.tommcclintock.net/news.php?news_id=85&start=5
2006/11/6-7 [Consumer/CellPhone] UID:45201 Activity:nil
11/7    I don't know why this was deleted so reposting:
        Thinking of switching from Verizon to Cingular.  Mostly use in Mountain
        View and sometimes Berkeley.  Thoughts?
        \_ Cingular is pretty good in the South Bay. I haven't had any problems
           in the 4+ years I've been w/ AT&T and Cingular. One downside,
           Cingular's unlimited data plan is (was?) pretty expensive. --ranga
        \_ my boss in Santa Clara complains about GSM services, and he end
           up getting a Verizon phone DESPITE he could really use a GSM
           phone because he clock about 100,000 miles a year.
        \_ Cingular is pretty good in the south bay. I've had AT&T Wireless
           and Cingular for the last 4 years and haven't had any major issues.
           The one drawback is that the unlimited data plan is (was?) quite
           expensive. --ranga
2006/11/6-7 [Computer/SW/Editors, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:45202 Activity:low
11/6    Poll: How are you avoiding kchang's identifier on
        http://csua.com/24/?incr=1 ? I'll start:
        scp: .
        cp, vi, cp: .
        it's wrong most of the time (at least for my posts), so why care?: ..
        Didn't know kchange was back: .
        \_ man, kchang's message is out of date
           "WARNING: Random aliases shown are solely for the purpose of
           entertainment. Real logins, as well as randomized names really
           didn't post these messages."
        \_ I always launch my editor (Vim) when I login to soda and load the
           motd into the buffer.  When I write to the motd, I load my comment
           into a buffer, reload the motd and then write the change.  Since I'm
           always running the editor, kchang nearly always flags me as a a
           possibility.  Thus my actual comments are lost in the noise. -emarkp
        \_ I don't give a rat's ass.  -John
        \_ I don't give a man's ass.  -John
        \_ I don't give yermom's ass.  -John
2006/11/6-8 [Uncategorized] UID:45203 Activity:nil
11/6    Open enrollment begins today. Should I appyl for FSA Debit Card
        (Flexible Spending Account)?
        \_ This is the health spending plan, yes?  If you have known static
           medical expenses each year then you might want to put some cash
           in there but please please please be aware that if you don't use
           the money by year's end or you quit and still have money in there
           *you*lose*the*money*!
2006/11/6-8 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:45204 Activity:nil
11/6    RNC attackes "Charlie Brown":
        http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/TD/20061102/NEWS/111020080
        \_ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4190699.stm
           http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/276677.stm
           Could be worse.  -John
           \_ What is your point? I'm a Democrat but I also think gay people
              are bad and they should minimize contacts with children.
           \_ What is your point? I'm a Democrat but I also think gay people
              are bad and they should minimize contacts with children.
              \_ Hope springs eternal that this is a troll.
2006/11/6-7 [Uncategorized] UID:45205 Activity:nil
11/6    3D Digg:
        http://www.footloosemoose.com/michael/mb3dEngine/fullscreen.html
        \_ is there any structure to the organisation? seems pointless.
2006/11/6-7 [Computer/HW/Display] UID:45206 Activity:nil
11/6    Nvidia buys PortalPlayer:
        http://www.portalplayer.com/news-and-events/PPI_NVIDIA.htm
2006/11/6-8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:45207 Activity:low 79%like:45200
11/6    1A: .
        1B:
        1C:
        1D:
        1E: ..
        \_ None of the above because running your failed state via
           proposition to purchase basic structural needs and services
           while using the general fund for pork is nutty and doomed: .
           \_ So, how much of the general fund is used for pork?  It does
              seem crazy to borrow money for basic structure, but it's
              pretty obvious the CA legislature isn't going to become sane
              anytime soon.
              \_ In the last 3 years, tax revenue has grown by about 22% and
                 spending about 28%.  You tell me -not pp
           \_ None of the 1*'s are propositions.  They're all either amendments
              to passed initiatives (1A) or bond measures which the legislature
              approved, but which by CA law require direct voter approval to
              pass.  Bonds used to be (and in most other states are) sold
              without direct voter approval.
              \_ ok, ok, I'm voting for 1a but not the rest.
                 \_ why not 1e?
                    \_ eh.  Compared to the size of the general fund and
                       considering it takes several budget cycles to build,
                       repair, etc, on that scale, we can or at least should
                       be able to afford the levees from general funds.
                       \_ the bonds are all going to get paid that way anyway.
                          Why not get some balls in the legislature and get
                          the work done, wihtout having to pay interest for
                          borrowing the money to do the job. That way just costs
                          more in the long run.
                          \_ yeah that's what i'm saying.  we're in agreement.
                 \_ If you're in favor of the legislature being able to
                    operate as they do in other states, as the person above,
                    that's exactly backwards.
        \_ I'm definitely no on 1C.  The problem with housing in CA won't
           be solved by the govt. giving handouts.  Lifiting building
           restrictions would do a lot more.
        \_ McClintock on the props.  As usual, good on bonds.
           http://www.tommcclintock.net/news.php?news_id=85&start=5
           Good, Interesting justification on 1E. (no on B, C, D)
           \_ Gah, hadn't read that, but that was the exact reason I came up
              with for having that be my only 1* "yes"
              Sad to see he actually believes 83 will do anything.
              \_ I don't think opposing that prop is politically tenable.
              \_ Yeah, I've decided to vote no on 83.  Sad as it is to see
                 kids get raped, it's too much money to reduce a very rare
                 crime.  Not to meantion things like Satutory rape can get
                 you a GPS tracker.  Seems a bit much.
                 \_ False.  Statutory isn't part of it.
           \_ Why should my tax money go to support someone who decided
              build in a flood plain? I'm voting no on 1E.
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:November:06 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>