Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:October:30 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2006/10/30-11/1 [Uncategorized] UID:45031 Activity:nil
10/30   The new Inter Core Duel 2 commercial-- what do you guys think about
        it? Does it have as much pizzass (sp) as say, the colorful Intel
        bunnies that dance to 1970s music?
        \_ Yum!  I love pizzas.
2006/10/30-11/1 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:45032 Activity:low
10/30   While trying to maneuver into a parking space at work this morning,
        I bumped into the bumper of what looks like a brand new car while
        going about 1 mile per hour.  I left a note on the car windshield
        with my number.  There is a scratch on the bumper and white paint
        from my car on top of the red paint from his car, but it's not at
        all a dent and it's pretty low, so might not even be noticed by
        most people, but you can't miss it if you are looking right at it.
        Supposing the guy wants to have it repaired, how much does this
        cost?  Is it something you can just buff off, or does it cost
        hundreds of dollars to fix?  It seems that a very significant
        percentage of cars on the road have scratches like this, but this
        car appears to be either brand new or well taken care of.
        \_ Did you take pictures of the scratch.  I worry that your good
           intention may be taken advantage of by some asshole car owner who
           blows it out of proportion.  "Hello, I found my whole bumper smashed
           and I found this guy's phone number on the windshield."
           \_ Owning a car != automatically an asshole.
              \_ I know.  I own a car and I'm not an asshole.  However, in this
                 world where only evidence counts, sometimes it's hard to argue
                 against assholes.
                 \_ Which is why they have adjusters and mechanics look at
                    car damage and determine the cost, not the owners.  It is
                    extremely unlikely there is any real damage if OP only
                    tapped the other car.  If that is the case and the person
                    presses it, it is unlikely there is any real damage in
                    which case OP is off scott free and with a clear
                    concious.  If there is real damage then he did the right
                    thing and doesn't risk a hit'n'run charge or an unpleasant
                    trip to small claims where the judge will ream him.
        \_ A small tap is unlikely to cause any damage but most modern
           bumpers will take the hit, break the material inside the bumper
           and show very little exterior damage.  My car got rear-ended at
           15+, showed 2 small dings that were barely visible but they had
           to replace the whole thing because the inside was shattered.  It
           was good of you to leave a note, btw.
           \_ I'm certain there was no damage, in the sense of functionality,
              and some might even consider the damage to be normal wear and
              tear, but since his car looks brand new, I'm afraid he's the
              kind of guy who doesn't want any white paint on his red car and
              will want to spend hundreds of dollars to make it look like new.
              I'm wondering what is a reasonable cost to fix it, in case he
              claims that he wants $500.  Thanks!  -op
              \_ Soap and water will probably take off the white paint.  If
                 there's still a scratch, prefessional buffing may fix it.
                 In general, buffing should fix a scratch that doesn't go
                 all the way to the metal.
           \_ Most cars, minivans and SUVs nowadays have styrofoam bumpers.
              My '96 Cherokee has metal ones, and small scratches can't be
              seen easily.
           \_ Not just good of him, it's the law.  If you get IDed leaving the
              scene, you're up for a hit-and-run.
        \_ So you're the asshole that scratched my new red car! Learn to
           drive! It won't be cheap to fix! I'm guessing at *least* $500
           if it cannot be buffed out. At least you left a note. Most
           mfers just leave. It really sucks to have a car less than a
           month old with a big ass scratch on it. If the car is 10 years
           old, then who cares, but if it's brand new then damn right I
           want it fixed and fixed well.
        \_ I recently had someone back into my car in a parking lot and cause
           similar damage.  Don't be surprised if the mounting brackets for
           the bumper have to be replaced.  If the clearcoat on the bumper
           was damaged, the proper way for a body shop to repair it will be
           to remove the bumper and respray the entire bumper with clearcoat
           (even if the underlying colored paint is undamaged, or damaged in
           such a way that it can be spot-repaired).  Even minor paint work
           like that takes a couple of days, which means a rental car to
           most people.  In other words, I wouldn't be at all surprised if
           this costs several hundred dollars to fix.  Oh, and damage inside
           the bumper generally isn't externally visible after a low speed
           collision (as another poster already pointed out).
        \_ Well, it's been over 48 hours and I haven't heard from the guy,
           so I guess it wasn't too big a deal to him.  -op
2006/10/30-11/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:45033 Activity:nil
10/30   Murdoch NY Post endorses Hillary:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061030/ap_on_el_se/ny_post_clinton
        \_ It must be that NY tax surplus
           http://news.google.com/news?q=new+york+tax+surplus
2006/10/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:45034 Activity:high 93%like:45040
10/30   http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/zawahiri_was_ta.html
        (perhaps not a) Surprise!
        - Pakistani major general says Pakistani attack helos fired 4-5
        missiles into terrorist training school, killing ~80, and that no women
        or children were at the school during the attack.
        - U.S. major says assault was "completely done by the Pakistani
        military".  Attack comes on day that peace deal between region's tribal
        leaders and Pakistan govt was to be signed.
        - ABC News reports U.S. Predator UAV(s) actually conducted attack, and
        that Zawahiri, 2nd in command to Osama, was primary target.
        - Opposition political leader says 30 children were killed, school was
        not terrorist training center, and U.S. planes were used.
        (I kind of don't believe the children part, because kids' bodies are
        easily shown to the camera, and these haven't appeared.  Young adults,
        okay; a few kids, certainly possible)
        \_ Which part is the "Surprise!"?
           \_ yeah, the ABC News report is suspect.  The standard Hellfire 1-2
              missiles that Predators carry isn't enough to kill 50-80 people
              normally. -op
              \_ I wondered about this too.  A couple of Predator drones
                 "completely destroyed a compound" and "killed 50-80
                 people?"  Yeah right.
                 \_ it also doesn't make sense that 4-5 rockets/missiles from
                    from attack helos did it either.  Weird. -op
                    \_ Attack helos carry more than 1 rocket each.  It depends
                       on if they meant that 4-5 rockets were fired or some
                       unknown number of helos each fired 4-5 rockets.  But,
                       no, I agree with you that 4-5 rockets total would be
                       unlikely to directly kill 80 people.  Perhaps the
                       building was multi-story and collapsed and burned and
                       that killed ~80 people?
                       \_ the Pakistani major general was pretty clear:
                          4-5 rockets/missiles total.  Maybe it was an
                          anti-personnel Hellfire variant (just add Al powder),
                          first tested in Iraq in '03. -op
                          http://csua.org/u/hbq (globalsecurity.org)
2006/10/30-31 [Health/Disease/General, Health/Men] UID:45035 Activity:nil
10/30   Sheldon Brown is dying :( It's a dark dark day:
        http://sheldonbrown.org/journal/health.html
        \_ Cheer up, so is Fidel Castro!
2006/10/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, ERROR, uid:45036, category id '18005#4.3125' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:45036 Activity:nil
10/30   Does anyone have a list of the contested seats in the house?  I'd like
        to track the polls in those districts.
        \_ http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/U.S._House_election,_2006
           It shouldn't be too hard to extract a list from here.
2006/10/30-11/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:45037 Activity:nil
10/30   I'm still waiting for the October Surprise. What's up?  -GOP #1 fan
        \_ Dems win the election, show up at Congress to discover that the
           GOP has pried up everything of value and skipped out on the rent.
           \_ Ah, so all that'll be left behind is their moral superiority
              \_ of the GOP?  No, that was sold for crack long ago.
           \_ Dem's win the election, show up at congress to find the govt with
              taxes slashed, spending levels raised, and a massive debt built
              up.
              \_ Whereas the Dem plan is to raise taxes, raise spending levels
                 and build up a massive debt.  Vote third party.
                 \_ Ah, you're describing the platform of legendary Democratic
                    candidate Dumbshit McDoesntexist.
           \_ Is that anything like the Clinton's trashing the Whitehouse
              on their way out?
              \_ As in, it didn't/won't happen?
2006/10/30-31 [Reference/Religion] UID:45038 Activity:high
10/30   Poll of the week. What is your favorite wacko cult? My favorite
        is the Koolaid cult where 1000+ people drank koolaid and died.
        How about your favorite cult? Koresh Davidian? Heaven's Gate?
        \_ Scientology.
        \_ Islam.
        \_ Christianity.
        \_ rms-inanity
        \_ Mormonism
        \_ Apple users
        \_ Raelians, hands-down.  I can't believe no one's even mentioned them.
        \_ Mormons. Warren Jeffs.
        \_ My favorite evil cult is the Nazi Geramny Cult. Heil.
        \_ Remember, they're only wackos because they don't have critical mass
           to be a religion.  All of the slightly more mainstream religions
           can tut-tut the cultists for accepting the _wrong_ set of
           baseless mythology on faith.
        \_ Heaven's gate.  I was just starting to discover the joys of the
           internets when they offed themselves.  Then a friend of a friend
           of a friend mirrored their whole site for great justice before
           the police had it taken down.  Ahhh.. memories.
        \_ Four-way toss-up between Temple Solaire, Heaven's Gate,
           Branch Davidians and People's Temple.  Catholic church and islam
           are in close running for honorable mention.  -John
           \_ I'm no fan of either religion, but if you call Catholicism and
              Islam cults, you're using a very odd(wrong) definition of cult,
              especially for Islam.  They don't have a leader or a coherent
              organization!
              \_ Well, catholicism has a leader and a coherent organization,
                 and having spent a large part of my early childhood in a
                 very strictly catholic environment and community, I think I
                 know what I'm talking about.  As for islam, would you accept
                 if I said "radical islam" instead?  There is no one structure
                 of authority, but many charismatic individual leaders who are
                 followed pretty much unquestionably.  -John
           \_ Not the LDS?
              \_ Not even close.  -John
        \_ atheists, secular Jews.
        \_ jews for jesus and the atheists who hate others for believing.
           \_ which atheists hate others for believing? do they have an
              organisation?
        \_ mormons, they are so nice for cultists
        \_ I don't remember the name, but there was a religion based on
           celibacy. They didn't last very long.
           \_ There were several Christian utopian communities formed in the
              mid-19th century in the U.S. which practiced celibacy.  Yes, they
              died out.
           \_ The Shakers?
           \_ Catholicism?
           \_ Computer Science? ha ha.
2006/10/30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:45039 Activity:nil
10/30   http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/zawahiri_was_ta.html
        Surprise!  In attack initially attributed to Pakistani attack helos
        on religious school which reportedly kill 80, U.S. Predator UAV(s)
        actually conducted attack.  Zawahiri, 2nd in command to Osama,
        primary target.
2006/10/30 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:45040 Activity:nil 93%like:45034
10/30   http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/zawahiri_was_ta.html
        Surprise!
        - Pakistani major general says Pakistani attack helos fired 4-5
        missiles into terrorist training school, killing ~80, and that no women
        or children were at the school during the attack.
        - U.S. major says assault was "completely done by the Pakistani
        military".  Attack comes on day that peace deal between region's tribal
        leaders in region and Pakistan govt was to be signed.
        - ABC News reports U.S. Predator UAV(s) actually conducted attack, and
        that Zawahiri, 2nd in command to Osama, was primary target.
        - Opposition political leader says 30 children were killed, school was
        not terrorist training center, and U.S. planes were used.
2006/10/30-11/1 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:45041 Activity:high
10/30   My favorite command in UNIX is "cal". What is your favorite?
           \_ Nein, I vill be. A German and a Jerry, danke, und Heil! -John
              \_ PARSE ERROR. Are you on drugs again John?
                 \_ That's just my troll farm being rambunctious.  Use new
                    Extra Strength Troll-Gro for healthy and frisky trolls!
        \_ Based on frequency of use, gonna have to go with tcsh
           \- "strip tcsh"
              \_ unzip; touch; strip; finger; head; latex; mount; gasp; yes;
                 god; more; comm; spray; umount; sleep; zip; exit; dump
        \_ date
        \_ bc followed closely by procmail
           \_ bc? What's so special about bc? I picked "cal" because it is
              useful, and it is Cal!
              \_ I'd say I use bc and cal most. Bc is great when you
                 want to do simple math.
                 \_ Except that you have to tweak scale to get decimal values.
                    I prefer nickle or just perl -lne 'print eval', or better
                    yet, ~mconst/bin/pc  --dbushong
                    \_ You don't have to tweak scale.  You put scale= in your
                       .bcrc file just once.  You can also pipe to bc, it has
                       command line history and editing, variables, all the
                       basic math functions you'd expect on a decent
                       calculator and let's you write your own as well.  Your
                       bcfu is weak!  When you can pull this bc from my
                       hand, only then will you will ready.
                       \_ why can't it graph functions and find intercepts?
                          \_ why can't vi output quality latex for your
                             thesis?  why can't gcc debug your code?  why
                             can't the government provide services without
                             waste?   Because they're not designed to.
                             \_ Can you explain why using bc makes sense
                                instead of programs like mathematica, matlab,
                                maple, or igor?  I mean assuming you're not
                                pathalogically cheap or are selecting your
                                math software based only on demonstrating your
                                "fu"?
                                \_ If you don't know the difference between a
                                   small but powerful-for-it's-size CLI unix
                                   tool and a full blown math package like
                                   mathematica you wouldn't understand the
                                   reason for using either in the first place.
                                   Why do you use "ls" instead of "echo *"?
                                   Sheesh.  Enough trolling.  You're way into
                                   lame now.
                                   \_ Oh, no, I get it.  Matlab and mathematica
                                      are what those of us who actually need
                                      to do real math use to do useful work.
                                      Bc is what fat sysadmins use to show
                                      eachother how big their dicks are.
                                      \_ Thank you for participating in the
                                         "What is your favorite UNIX command?"
                                         thread.  Your math nerd hostility
                                         and insane rant has been duly noted
                                         and disregarded.  When you learn the
                                         difference between "unix command" and
                                         "shrink wrapped math package" you may
                                         attract more than disdain the next
                                         time you attempt to communicate.  In
                                         the mean time, I suggest classes on
                                         how to behave like a real human being
                                         might (even simulated behavior is
                                         acceptable online) rather than like
                                         the raging flaming asshole you are.
                                         Again, thank you for joining us.
                                        _/
                Likewise, asshole
                     /"\
                    |\./|
                    |   |
                    |   |
                    |>~<|
                    |   |
                 /'\|   |/'\..
             /~\|   |   |   | \
            |   =[@]=   |   |  \
            |   |   |   |   |   \
            | ~   ~   ~   ~ |`   )
            |                   /
             \                 /
              \               /
               \    _____    /
                |--//''`\--|
                | (( +==)) |
                |--\_|_//--|
                \_ you're pretty touchy for a hostile math nerd,
                   but you're still welcome to join humanity if
                   you ever figure it out.

                                      \_ soda% matlab
                                         matlab: Command not found.
                                         \_ /usr/bin/octave
                             \_ Well I'm just saying, doing that doesn't sound
                                that hard and would be a cool thing to have
                                in a quick commandline utility like this.
                                Newton's method and whatnot. It would have to
                                have the syntax support though. A simple
                                ascii-graphics attempt at a graph would be
                                cool too. Anything like that out there? I
                                guess it doesn't belong in bc though. gc?
                                \_ In theory you could get bc to output data
                                   in a format you could feed into something
                                   else to graph, etc.  bc supports loops,
                                   logic, functions, etc, so it can probably
                                   be extended to do a lot of things never
                                   imagined by the authors but you'd have to
                                   write those functions yourself or call them
                                   in bc from math library.
                       \_ My manpage says nothing about .bcrc, and it doesn't
                          seem to work.  What version are you using?
                          \_ # bc -v
                               bc 1.06
                               Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
                             \_ That's what I've got and soda's got, and the
                                .bcrc file doesn't work on either.
                                \_ Hmm, dunno.  I'm using freebsd.  Maybe
                                   their version is tweaked a bit.  You could
                                   alias bc to echo scale=foo | \bc or
                                   something I guess but it probably isn't
                                   worth it and would probably break other
                                   things.
                    \_ Those don't have good commandline editing (history etc).
                       I suppose adding that shouldn't be too hard.
                    \_ bc -l
                    \_ nickle has history, and I like its . thingy, but you're
                       right, my bc fu is weak.
                       \_ Nickle is overkill.  And there are things I use bc
                          for daily that I'm pretty sure are harder in nickle.
        \_ emacs
           \- emacs transcends unix
        \- find ... | xargs
        \_ grep -r something *
           \_ I tend to do more grep -r something .
              when I'm using -r ....  --dbushong
        \_ If you like cal(1), try ~dbushong/bin/c
        \_ screen
        \_ wow, did I actually see someone flicking someone off?
           \_ just Hostile Math Nerd upset that someone would dare use a
              simple program like bc instead of a monster to do simple math.
               \_ You see that Matlab code on your ass?  There's identical
                  Matlab code on my boot.
                  \_ Nope, just greasy math nerd on the rampage.
        \_ awk
           \_ perl
2006/10/30-11/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:45042 Activity:low
10/30   Anyone have recommendations for a reasonably stable filesystem that
        I can use on large (~150GB) external USB drives, that's read/
        writeable by XP, MacOS and possibly FreeBSD/Linux?  -John
        \_ If you want write access from all three, I think you're stuck with
           fat32.
           \_ Which BTW limits you to files of 4GB or less, so don't think you
              can make DVD images.
              \_ And I think 130GB partitions, that's my problem.  -John
                 \_ That limit is supposedly only for creating/checking from
                    a Windows system.  Unix tools will let you format larger
                    partitions, after which newer Windows can mount rw.
                    \_ That's what I thought, but I just tested it on a W2K
                       box and no dice.  For some reason it pukes on large
                       file copies, and when the data mount exceeds ~half the
                       drive size.  Funny enough MacOS also crapped out on
                       a FAT32 drive formatted...on my Mac.  -John
                       \_ Just curious, why isn't 130GB large enough and why
                          does it have to be r/w across multiple unrelated OS?
                          \_ 130 would be plenty except I haven't gotten it
                             to work.  It's the drive I ended up putting all
                             my backup game ISOs, ripped music and DVD rips
                             on while in S. America (they're on a raid5
                             array on a FreeBSD box serving samba at home) and
                             I'd like to be able to read/write from both my
                             Mac and my PC while abroad.  -John
        \_ vxfs
           \_ vxfs does not support windows xp, mac osx, or freebsd
              \_ interesting.  there is a veritas foundation for windows
                 product but it only supports the windows file systems but
                 otherwise looks very much like their vxfs based unix product.
                 \_ The project to port VxFS to Windows got canned because
                    Microsoft opposed it, so Storage Foundation on Windows
                    is just Volume Manager.
2006/10/30-11/1 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:45043 Activity:moderate
10/30   Is the CSUA Lottery Scheduling still being used on soda?
        \_ What software cannot solve, hardware does.
        \_ Thankfully, no. It's a stupid project that needed a big sucker
           (csua) to experiment on so that the author can brag about it
           in his publication.
           \_ God forbid the CSUA get involved in computer science.  -tom
           \_ Why is it stupid?  From what I understand, it tries to allot the
              same amount of CPU time to each user instead of each process.
              Sounds like a more fair scheduling policy to me.
        \_ Lottery scheduling is useful in theory, in publications such
           as the the one from dpetrou. It is like adding 0.1 PSI to your
           tire pressure to make it run more effectively. In reality one
           can spend much more effective efforts optimizing a system.
        \_ No.
           \_ Is the fuctionality now provided by Linux without modification?
              \_ I guess people didn't feel the need for it after we went SMP
                 on soda....  I don't know though, I wasn't involved in the
                 decision.
                 decision.  Honestly, I haven't noticed any trouble.
                 \_ I noticed slow-downs and CPU hogging with Mark VII, whereas
                    with VI the vast majority of slow-downs was random net
                    bottlenecks.  Anyway, I don't see the VII slow-downs as
                    often now as during the first several months.
                    \- The LOTTERY SCHEDULER has been replace by the
                       ERGODIC SCHEDULER.
2006/10/30-11/1 [Uncategorized] UID:45044 Activity:nil
10/30   On the current season of the The Amazing Race, there are two
        brothers, Erwin and Godwin Cho, who went to Cal.  They are around
        their early 30s.  Does anyone out there remember them from their
        days at Cal?
        \_ Oh yeah, Cho.  That was the Asian guy, right?
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:October:30 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>