Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:October:11 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/10/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44763 Activity:nil
        Hans Reiser arrested on suspicion of murder :-(((.   --phr
        \_ At least slashdot got the really important part of this story right
           up there: "While the disappearance (and possible murder) of his
           wife is tragic, Linux users will wonder where this will leave
           Reiser 4. If Reiser is found guilty, will Novell or IBM pick up the
           pieces and finish up Reiser 4 for inclusion in the kernel or is
           this the end of the Reiser filesystem project? Will there be any
           future for the Reiser filesystem, and if Hans is found guilty and
           the project is continued, will the project be renamed to avoid
           notoriety?"  Because gosh too bad about that dead chick and all,
           but who is going to finish 4.0?
           \_ "News for nerds.  Stuff that matters."
           \_ You're right.  Because a person is dead we can't discuss anything
              else about the incident.  Thanks for the correction.
              \_ It was crass and unnecessary.  You're welcome.
        \_ The references section of the wikipedia article on Hans Reiser
           has more info:
        \_ Goes a long way towards explaining why ReiserFS is a steaming
2006/10/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:44764 Activity:nil
        Former senator Sam Nunn (D-Ga.) faulted the administration for focusing\
        on Iraq first, when greater threats loomed in North Korea and Iran.
        "We started with Iraq in the 'axis of evil' side, when we thought they
        did not yet have nuclear weapons, and that sent the signal to others
        that they better get them quick," he said. "I think we started on the
        wrong end of that."
        \_ Re: last quote: O RLY?
        \_ Anyone have a Sam Nunn quote from before the war telling us this?
2006/10/11-12 [Science/Biology] UID:44765 Activity:nil
        It's a dark dark day                                    -conservative
        \_ conservative?  uh huh.  because all conservatives are anti-science
           idiots.  if you're going to troll, do it right.
        \_ "Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who is Roman Catholic, said
           Michigan schools need to teach evolution in science classes and not
           include intelligent design."
           \_ This can be rewritten to say "Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm
              is not a total fucking idiot" with the same meaning.
              is not a total fucking idiot" with the same meaning. -!tom
              \_ Why do you feel the need to say !tom?
                 \_ Because it sounds like something tom would put in the motd
2006/10/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:44766 Activity:nil
        Bush's brilliant solutions to school violence:
        1) You need to be more vigilant.
        2) You need to keep guns out of children.
        3) Everyone should learn 1 and 2.
        \_ putting guns in children is something we can all agree is bad.
           \_ But having it in them might not be as bad as having it on them.
2006/10/11-12 [Reference/Celebration, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:44767 Activity:nil
10/10   Happy Birthday Taiwan!
        \_ The Chinese "Republic."  Now, that's irony.  Next, they'll be
           calling it the "Free Society of Iran" and "Jewish State of Saudi
           \_ Imperialist pigs must stop spreading lies about the people's
              glorious socialist revolution.
              -Democratic People's Republic of Korea
           \_ 10/10 is the national day of the Republic of China (capitalist
              Taiwan), not the People's Republic of China (communist Mainland
              \_ 10/10 is the celebration of overthrown of Manchu Dynasty of
                 China.  While PRC do not recognize it as a "national day,"
                 PRC does recognize its importance and speech to address the
                 anniversery is typically held.
              \_ REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more
                 than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front.
                 PEOPLE'S FRONT of JUDEA: Yeah...
                 JUDITH: Splitters.
                 PEOPLE'S FRONT of JUDEA: Splitters...
                 FRANCIS: And the Judean Popular People's Front.
                 PEOPLE'S FRONT of JUDEA: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters.
                 LORETTA: And the People's Front of Judea.
                 PEOPLE'S FRONT of JUDEA: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
                 REG: What?
                 LORETTA: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.
                 REG: We're the People's Front of Judea!
2006/10/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44768 Activity:nil
10/11   According to a UK paper, the US consumes 58 billion hamburgers per
        year.  58,000 million / 300 million pop = 193 per capita!  No wonder
        we are a nation of gigantic fat asses ...
        \_ Um, I've had a grand total of maybe about 5 hamburgers in the last
           year....  Not doing my share?  --PM
        \_ I wonder who is eating my share? -vegetarian
           \_ I'm also a vegetarian, 193/person is "only" one every other day
              ... obviously for some this the default meal - op
              \_ Suckling infants need to start making up for their deficit.  I
                 call this number crap.
        \_ Hamburgers at McDonald's are pretty small and you need two for one
           meal.  That may have skewed the statistics.
           \_ I think you have pointed out part of the problem
2006/10/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44769 Activity:high 80%like:44774
10/11   The invasion of Iraq may have caused 650,000 Iraqi deaths.
        \_ "caused" -- no.  This is Lancet II.  Once again timed to come out
           just before an election.
           \_ do you have a point?
           \_ The Lancet debunkers have been...debunked.
              \_ Well, I was the most outspoken critic of the Lancet study.
                 Some good arguments here convinced me I was wrong about a bias
                 from selecting locations.  However, the motives of getting the
                 result out just before an election, and the trust that any
                 errors in the study trended towards a lower mortality rate are
                 still there. -emarkp
2006/10/11-13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:44770 Activity:nil
        \_ This is a scurrilous rag.
        \_ Marked as NSFW by my company's firewall.  YMMV.
           \_ It is NSFW
              \_ OP should have told us that.  I haven't seen it yet since I'm
                 blocked from here.
        \_ Is this real or a joke?  -- clueless
           \_ this is what she actually looks like:
                Yes, the same Hans Reiser helped start the soda tradition.
2006/10/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:44771 Activity:nil
10/11   More spitting and middle-fingering, literally, at the DMZ, the Cold
        War's last frontier these days:
        \_ Happens all the time.
           \_ Do you mean spitting and middle-fingering happen all the time,
              or the increase of spitting and middle-fingering happens all the
              \_ I mean there are 'events' in the DMZ all the time.  Spitting
                 and middle fingering is at the low end.  There have been
2006/10/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/RealEstate] UID:44772 Activity:moderate
10/11   Holy shit, Bin-Ladin decided to strike a month later!
        \_ New York Yankee pitcher Cory Lidle was apparently piloting the
           airplane and died in the crash.  Wow.  Who knew that Al-Qaeda had
           infiltrated the Yankees and Major League Baseball!?!
           \_ See?  Yet another failure of the Bush administration to indentify
              the spread of terrorism into our turfs before they strike.  The
              CIA should have taken action when Lidle met with bin Laden at the
              Afghan cave last year.
        \_ Osama Bin Laden flys a small single engine plane into a luxury
           condo because... he thinks Bush resides there? October Surprise!
           \_ Isn't Bill Clinton's place up that way?  Maybe Osama was trying
              to get back at him.  -tom
              \_ Get back at him for what?
        \_ fyi, comparing overhead images with photos of the scene, I would say
           it was intentional (revenge, suicide, terrorism, whatever).  It's a
           straight shot into the center mass of the north face of one of the
           taller condo complexes, with other directions blocked by other tall
           bldgs, and the river nearby if they really wanted to ditch.
           I also understand it was very foggy, so it's possible pilot was a
           \_ i bet it's a domestic thing. i bet the guy was seeking revenge
              for a BITCH that used him to do her b-school cs9x projects and
              then tossed him away
        \_ Rent/own a piece of fine Manhattan real estate!
           \_ I need to boost my salary five-fold to be able to afford these.
           numbnut.  I also think "524 e 72nd st" is the wrong address.
              \_ Which?  If you could boost your salary five-fold and afford
                 the second, I'd still be impressed with your current salary.
        \_ Apparently the plane was flown by The Yankees pitcher Lidle:
           \_ Why do the Yankees hate America?
              \_ Hey, the man couldn't pitch them into the playoffs, so he
                 did the honorable thing. Odds are that was a Mets fan's
           Murphy's law.  You tell the NY Times a month before about only 1% of
           pilots ever experiencing an engine failure, and those that do safely
           landing the plane most of the time, and a parachute that can be
           deployed for the whole plane, and then you crash into a condo.
        \_ If ARod had been piloting, they would've missed the building.
2006/10/11-13 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:44773 Activity:moderate
        Wisconsin University instructor likens Bush to Hitler.  "Hitler had
        a good 20 to 30 IQ points on Bush, so comparing Bush to Hitler would
        in many ways be an insult to Hitler."
        In many ways I'm disappointed that Berkeley professors and
        instructors today aren't more vocal about this. We went from
        outspoken protestors in the 60-70s to mute nerdy engineers in
        the past few decades. Pathetic.
        \_ and john yoo.  ub3r.
        \_ Uh yeah except running around mouthing 2nd grade level "you are a
           dumb poppyhead!" level insults and wild comparisons to a man who
           started a world war and is responsible for the intentional murder
           of millions of people is not only unhelpful but makes anything else
           they say easily dismissible.
           \_ As oppose to Bush's unintentional killing of half a million
        \_ I wonder if he has ever heard of Goodwin's law?
           \_ Godwin
              \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
              \_ If you can't tell the difference between millions of people
                 being sent to gas chambers and overs because bullets weren't
                 efficient enough and post-invasion anarchy due to poor
                 planning, there's nothing to talk about.
                 \_ At least Hitler did not profit from the war.
                    \_ You're wrong of course but nevermind.  I'm sure he
                       paid for everything he owned with his salary as an
                       elected official.  The motd can be so nutty, I love it.
        \_ I wonder if he has ever heard of Godwin's law?
        \_ The Bush Brownshits will either physically attack or at the
           very least run this man out of a job. They have been very vocal
           (and violent) in their offensive against anyone who dared to
           speak out against The Regime too openly. Perhaps it is different
           today, but it was actually dangerous to say things like this
           a few years ago.
           \_ It was actually dangerous?  Which country did you live in a few
              years ago?
           \_ When was America's "Night of Broken Glass"?  Can you provide
              some URLs for this violence you claim?
              \_ Here in the Bay Area someone was beaten:
                 It was actually much worse in more Conservative parts of
                 the country. I personally received death threats for
                 some of my blog postings.
                 \_ Sorry, but that incident was exposed as a hoax a long time
                    \_ Proof?
        \_ This is NOT from  How does our genius-in-chief manage
           to go to Yale and Harvard without at least picking up a word or
           THE PRESIDENT: Well, they may not use cut and run, but they say
           date certain is when to get out, before the job is done. That is
           cut and run. Nobody has accused me of having a real sophisticated
           vocabulary, I understand that.
           \_ That says more about Harvard and Yale than it does about Bush.
2006/10/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44774 Activity:low 80%like:44769
10/11   The invasion of Iraq may have caused 650,000 Iraqi deaths. (
        \_ Yawn.  May have?  In the same way there was 'up to' 800 killed on
           the Bay Bridge from the Loma Prieta quake as reported by the Daily
           Cal.  These guys admit they time and public with a political
           agenda.  Where are these 650k bodies?  They don't just vanish like
           in a video game.
        \_ Video of Lancet editor speaking at anti-war rally:
        \_ "caused" -- no.  This is Lancet II.  Once again timed to come out
           just before an election.
           \_ do you have a point?
           \_ The Lancet debunkers have been...debunked.
              \_ Well, I was the most outspoken critic of the Lancet study.
                 Some good arguments here convinced me I was wrong about a bias
                 from selecting locations.  However, the motives of getting the
                 result out just before an election, and the trust that any
                 errors in the study trended towards a lower mortality rate are
                 still there. -emarkp
                 \_ Do you still believe the Iraq War is the right thing?
                    \_ He's not replying because he's still embarrassed
                       about his stance that he no longer believes in:
                    \_ It was the right thing.  The post war plan was either
                       non-existent or executed poorly.  There's a difference.
                       \_ The pre- and post-war planning was misguided.
                 \_ So they should have waited until after the election, like
                    James Baker's "secret plan" to fix the war?
                    \_ No, but "rushing" the study to get it out before the
                       election is a bit problematic. -emarkp
                       \_ I really doubt anything like this actually affects
                          elections. People pretty much either know about this
                          stuff or don't care. To the latter this is more
                          noise. To the former they already have their opinion.
                          \_ Actually, the non-partisan voters are increasing.
                             And for people on the fence, this may make a
                             \_ People on the fence about this particular
                                issue are idiots. I doubt they would even
                                hear about this.
                             \_ Actually, they are not.  The true "genius"
                                of Karl Rove was his realization that the
                                mythical "swing voters" were disappearing,
                                and the way to win elections was purely
                                through base-pandering (c.f. 2004 election).
                                \_ At least here in CA, (I) is growing, while
                                   (R) and (D) are shrinking.
                                   \_ Because many non-motd readers have
                                      figured out that both parties suck and
                                      are full of criminals at the top.
                \_ There's always an election coming up somewhere.
                   \_ Last study came out Oct 2004.  This time Oct 2006.
2006/10/11-13 [Uncategorized] UID:44775 Activity:nil
10/11   The "Blue" Fund, only invests in Democratic businesses:
        \_ It must be Wednesday!
2006/10/11-13 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:44776 Activity:nil
10/11 (
        Russian defense minister reaffirms 5 to 15 kiloton estimate:
        "Our estimates have remained absolutely unchanged ... The discrepancy
        in the estimates can be explained by two reasons. The first is purely
        political ... somebody wants it to be more powerful, somebody less ...
        The second aspect is purely technical. Whose national technical devices
        do you think are closest to the site of the explosion? That is the
        answer to your question."
        \_ Unless the Russkies have a monitoring station just over the border,
           I'd still trust the South Koreans.
           \_ Why would you trust the Russians under any circumstances?
        \_ Hmm, the Russian defense minister is saying Russia wants the test to
           be more powerful.  And like he said, it's purely political.  Ha ha!
           This guy beats Dan Quayle.
        \_ I still think N.Koreans are bluffing.  In either case, Bush/Cheney
           should for the first time draw up a post-conflict plan and thinking
           about nation building.  The funny thing is, S.Koreans, long  desires
           unification of their motherland, is in no mood to absorb N.Koreans
           right now.  China was actively training a set of shadow government
           officials, but they are not in the mood for N.Koreans to ruin the
           2008 Olympics.
           \_ You think they're faked a mini nuke with a huge pile of
              conventional explosives or you think they will keep trying to
              set off nukes?  What part do you think the NK are bluffing?
2006/10/11-13 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:44777 Activity:moderate
10/11   Sprawl spreads development out over large amounts of land; puts long
        distances between homes, stores, and job centers; and makes people
        more and more dependent on driving in their daily lives.
        \_ Why do people spend so much time fussing over a problem that
           will solve itself? When driving sucks so hard and is so
           expensive that no one wants to do it, no one will do it. We're
           not at that point yet. If you don't like to drive, don't. Lots
           of people are voting with their dollars and they prefer to drive.
           \_ uh, maybe because the damage to our society and environment
              will be already done by the time the invisible hand gets around
              to doing anything about it.  -tom
              \_ I WILL NOT BE MOCKED! --the invisible hand
              \_ And some of the problems are governmental (like city
                 regulations that limit density, or poor public transit),
                 which the free market isn't in a good position to solve.
              \_ You'll have a hard time proving any damage to society,
                 but if you want more environmental regulations that's
                 cool, but it's tangential. In fact, emissions requirements
                 for cars are much stricter than they used to be. The
                 person above seems more concerned about sprawl than the
                 environment, though. Even a zero emissions vehicle won't
                 have any impact on sprawl.
              \_ The free market has determined that your idea of damage is
                 not the same as the market's idea of damage.  Otherwise we'd
                 already being living in your vision for society.
                 \_ You're equating government-subsidized sprawl with the
                    free market?  Right.  If strip malls and subdivisions are
                    part of your free market worldview, you must love the
                    brilliant capitalistic success that is Amtrak.
                    \_ There is no such thing as a pure free market.  And those
                       malls provide goods, services, and jobs while paying
                       taxes and generating revenue for the surrounding areas.
                       Yes, my idea of the free market involves having a place
                       for businesses to exist in sufficient size and number to
                       provide the goods, services, and jobs required by an
                       active economy.
                       \_ Right.  So when you say "free market", that's your
                          code word for corporate socialism with your people
                          in charge.  Thank you for admiting it.  Now most
                                \_ code word?  my people?  excuse me for a
                                   moment while i go find my tin foil.
                          people are perfectly willing to admit that the believe
                          government has a role to play in regulating business,
                          and that it's useful to debate what that role should
                          be.  What makes people like you so evil is that
                          you avoid admiting that and cloak your pet socialist
                          people are perfectly willing to admit that the
                          believe government has a role to play in regulating
                          business, and that it's useful to debate what that
                          role should be.  What makes people like you so evil
                          is that you avoid admiting that and cloak your pet
                                \_ i don't avoid that at all.  my opening line
                                   was "there is no such thing as a pure free
                          programs in free market rhetoric right up until you're
                          programs in free market rhetoric right up until
                                \_ i have no pet social programs.  i believe in
                                   smaller government, lower taxes, and less
                                   government control over all aspects of
                                   daily life.
                          cornered, and all of a sudden --"there are no real
                          free markets!! I'm a realist!!".
                                \_ i'll fedex a whole roll of tin or aluminum
                                   foil (your choice or both if you feel the
                                   need) to any of your hide outs at my cost.
                 \_ The free market has classified your brain as: small
                    \_ Thanks for saying nothing.
                 \_ The free market on Easter Island decided it was a great
                    idea to cut down all the trees.  -tom
                    \_ Excellent point.  Haiti's abject poverty is partly
                       attributable to unregulated environmental exploitation,
                       and modern-day Montana is all fucked up because
                       unregulated mining companies have poisoned much
                       of the fresh water there, destroying sustainable
                       industry such as tourism and agriculture. --PeterM
                    \_ That's because they had protectionist policies.  They
                       should have imported their resources from more
                       efficient markets. <sarcasm/>
                    \_ I wasn't aware the Easter Islanders had a free market
                       capitalist society.  Do you have a reference for that?
                       Perhaps their real problem was lack of trade with their
                       neighbors.  Oh wait, they didn't have any.  They were
                       isolated and had too many people on too small an area
                       with an unlimited food supply.  So EI has nothing to do
                       with this but thanks anyway.
                       \_ More to the point, it has nothing to do with
                          transportion-induced sprawl.
                       \_ The idea that free markets always provide desireable
                          outcomes is mythical.  I don't think anyone smart,
                          including Adam Smith, ever made that assertion,
                                \_ nor did i, thanks.
                          and it has been mathematically proven to be
                          false.  Your response about how the U.S. isn't
                          like Easter Island is asinine; of course that's
                          true but it's completely and intentionally missing
                          the point.  Easter Islanders *would have been better
                                \_ there is no point. ei was a useless example
                                   of a mall driven suburban environment.
                          off in the long run* if they got together to protect
                          their environment before it was too late.  There
                          are plenty of examples of societies which protected
                          their environment, and of societies which didn't, and
                          you definitely want to be in the former group.  -tom
                          \_ I guess I'm just trying to find out why being
                             'dependent on driving' is, in itself, a bad
                             thing or even bad for the environment. Like I
                             said before, even a zero emissions vehicle
                             will encourage sprawl. Heck, horses and
                             bicycles encourage sprawl (and did back when
                             the first suburbs formed). In short, I don't
                             see any point to the original statement. What
                             *is* the problem and why can't the free market
                             solve it?
                             \_ Sprawl has environmental impacts, including
                                increased use of resources, loss of arable
                                land, pressure on ecosystems, and wilderness
                                encroachment.  -tom
                                \_ You are avoiding my question. Why is
                                   driving a negative aspect of sprawl?
                                   The original statement mentions driving
                                   and 'long distances' specifically. I do
                                   not advocate sprawl, but clearly if an
                                   IKEA warehouse is going to be built
                                   then why does it matter if it is in the
                                   central city or 40 miles away? It is
                                   going to take up xxx acres of land
                                   either way.
                                   \_ look, cars are 'bad', ok?
                                   \_ You're either being disingenuous or
                                      obtuse.  A society based on the private
                                      auto takes a lot more energy to move
                                      people and things around; energy is not
                                      free and is not going to be free any
                                      time soon.  The amount of space required
                                      for auto infrastructure, and the energy
                                      required to maintain that infrastructure,
                                      is also enormous.  -tom
                          \_ no i want to be in the society that has a rational
                             policy towards environment while still allowing
                             people to live well.  "you want to be in the group
                             that destroys itself".  silly.  you brought up a
                             bad example and people made fun of it.  maybe
                             next time.
2006/10/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44778 Activity:low
10/11   Iraqi are better off?  Tell 1 in 40 Iraqis who died since the US
        \_ Your knee jerked before you checked--this has already been posted
        \_ The Iraqi Deputy PM was on NPR yesterday, and I found his
           perspective enlightening. He said that no matter how bad the
           situation is now, nothing compares to the horror of living under
           Saddam. That said, he also pointed out that he was in no way saying
           that things are rosy or even good now. All in all, a fascinating
           interview clip. --erikred
           \- well, i obviously have no experience with iraq, but i think
              there is something to the following "a priori" argument:
              in the saddam era, rights and freedom were curtailed but
              the violence wasnt random. there was a good chance you could
              "choose" to keep your head down, go along to get along, and it
              was highly likely you would be left alone. however, today it
              seems it is quite likely anytime you leave the house to go
              buy some cheese, go to work, apply for a job you will get
              blown up. there is something to the hobbesian position that
              anarchy is worse than tyranny. consider how freaked out london
              was when the ira was planting bombs or those crazy sniper doods
              were shooting people in Washington DC ... the numbers in iraq
              are 100x or 1000x worse ... i think that affects life in ways
              which just canot be appreciated at a distance [just like you
              cant imagine what life is like under say hyperinflation].
              \_ The difference being that tyranny has no end.  Anarchy is a
                 temporary state.  Power will always gather around some person
                 or group who will then seize control for better or worse.
                 \_ Armed anarchy is merely detente thuggery.
           \_ This guy is just a Bush troll and needs to be replaced by
              someone who better understands the Iraqi people and their
              situation like some motd posters.
              \_ Point of clarification: I'm a Bush troll or the Iraqi Deputy
                 PM is a Bush troll? --erikred
                 \_ The Iraqi DPM is a Bush troll.  Why else would he say that
                    over 650k dead Iraqis, 550k of them in the last 2 years
                    is ok?
                    \_ He didn't. In fact, what he said was that he disputed
                       the numbers but was opposed to saying "only" 30-100k
                       as if any number would be a good thing. It was on All
                       Things Considered. I'll see if I can dig up a URL for
                       you. Here you go: (NPR)
2006/10/11-13 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:44779 Activity:nil
10/11   Are Windows CE, Windows Embedded, and Windows Mobile the same thing?
        They all sound like the Windows version for small devices.  Is it just
        a marketing thing to rename different versions of the same product?
        \_ Windows CE is the generic term for Windows Mobile, which includes
           "Pocket PC" Edition, and the castrated  "Smartphone" edition.
           Embedded is a completely different beast.  It is a modulized
           kernel structure, when it's deployed in full, looks more like a
           regular XP than WinCE.includes
           "Pocket PC" Edition, and the castrated  "Smartphone" edition.
           Embedded is a completely different beast.  It is a modulized
           kernel structure, when it's deployed in full, looks more like a
           regular XP than WinCE.
        \_ "wince" Is the most truthful bit of marketing Microsoft has
           produced for on of their products since choosing "Start Me Up"
           as the Windows 95 theme song ("You make a grown man cry").
2018/08/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:October:11 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>