Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:September:01 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/9/1-5 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:44224 Activity:nil
9/1     Who's the greatest 1337 h4x0r in the entire history of CSUA?
        Sameer. C2, great programmer, nice guy, self made millionaire.
        Sameer is the greatest 1337 h4x0r of CSUA.
        \_ Duh, Phil is.
        \_ Isn't Sameer in the marines now or something?  -John
        \_ Isn't the gtk toolkit, included with just about every single
           goddamn linux install in the universe, based on work by
           josh, spencer, and pete ?  I think that makes them uber
           super hackers.
        \_ I'd go with tawei.  No question.
           \_ Who?
              \_ Tawei Liao:
                 I love his wanted ad though I'm not sure exactly what he
                 contributed to the hax0r or computer science community
2006/9/1-3 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:44225 Activity:moderate
8/31    Suppose the ice-age instead of global warming is occuring. Would
        the scientists start to suggest everyone to consume as much as
        possible, and suggest people to drive SUVs and use as much energy
         as possible as a method of saving earth?
        \_ Global warming & ice age may be one and the same thing.  Bad
           troll, no troll snack.  -John
           \_ So the earth heating up causes it to cool down?
              \_ the earth heating up causes *some places* to cool down.
                 Climate is a chaotic system.  -tom
                 \_ Chaotic, meaning unpredictable?
                    \_ No, as in chaos theory, I assume.  Look up the
                       various oceanic conveyors.  -John
                       \_ So fluid dynamics is a solved problem?
                          \_ Do you have a point?
                             \_ Absolutely.  "GW & ice age may be one and the
                                same thing" is not at all the same as "the
                                earth heating up causes *some places* to
                                cool down".   The second statement may be
                                true.  The first statement is ridiculous.  It
                                is the first statement I was replying to, the
                                second statement, although possibly true, has
                                nothing to do with the thread.  What was your
                                \_ My statement would have been ridiculous if
                                   you had said "global ice age."  Nice try.
                                   And you did catch "may", right?  -John
        \_ No.  They would still suggest people to cut back energy usage on
           driving, and spend the energy on heating homes and greenhouses.
2006/9/1-3 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:44226 Activity:kinda low
8/31    7/25 bought my Prius
        8/9 Got my license plate number, sent $8.00 application
        8/30 Got my actual license plate
        8/31 Got my carpool stickers
        I can carpool now. I have special privileges for about a year.
        I am so cool!!!!!!              -Prius owner asking to be flamed
        \_ Thanks for overpaying for your car purchase.  That is exactly the
           sort of thing the economy needs to stay revved up.  You, sir, are
           a great American!
           \_ I'm a consultant making well over 6 digits and the time I saved
              on the carpool lane is well worth it, although I have to admit
              that at times the carpool lane is just as slow as the other
           \_ Supply and demand.
              \_ What about it?
                 \_ There was no overpaying.
        \_ Do not be too proud of this technological marvel that you have
           purchased, zero emissions are insignificant when confronted w/
           an H2 in a head on collision.
           \_ Is the Prius a zero-emission vehicle?
                \_ Intermittently it is
2006/9/1 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:44227 Activity:low
9/1     motd boob guy, i have gift for you
        \_ Scary troll!
        \_ I think she's appeared on before.
2006/9/1-3 [Uncategorized] UID:44228 Activity:nil
9/1     How do I disable anonymous browsing in bugzilla?
2006/9/1-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran] UID:44229 Activity:nil
9/1     No, Iran and N.Korea, You can't do this, only -benign- power like USA
        is allow to test its nukes:
        May be USA should sign Nuclear Test Ban Treaty...  May be we should
        impose economic sanction on those who violates NPT... which is...
        err... ourselves.
        \_ Well, we are neither importing from nor exporting to ourselves.
        \_ We should do whatever is in our national interest.  Iran should do
           whatever is in their national interest.  Any nation that does not
           do whatever is in their national interest will cease to be a nation
           and will be replaced by one or more entities that do whatever is in
           their own interest.
           \_ but they are axis of evil and we are doing everything defend
              democracy and human rights.
              \_ thanks for trolling the thread today.  the rest of us will
                 be having a discussion elsewhere that you're welcome to
                 contribute to.
           \_ Acting in our interest does not necessarily translate into
              acting against the interests of other nations; the overlap of
              these interests is the basis of diplomacy.
              \_ I didn't specify what "interest" meant.  For example, a tiny
                 weak country may find it is in their interest to do whatever
                 their larger neighbor wants a la "Findlandization" during the
                 Soviet era.  The Fins didn't like this policy but it was in
                 their interests to knuckle under to avoid invasion and out-
                 right take over.  Had Finland told the Soviets to piss off
                 that would have not been in their national interest because
                 shortly after there wouldn't be a Finland.
                 \- in general, the two behaviours are called
                    "bandwagoning" vs. "balancing" [as in
                    "balance of power"]. BTW, if you are
                    interested in IR theory it is pretty
                    amazing how much you can learn from
                    Thucydides: History of the Peloponnesian War ...
                    given that it is a 2400 yr old story and "only"
                    involved a few greek city-states.
                    \_ Read it.  Great stuff.
        \_ Five countries are permitted under the NPT to possess nuclear
           weapons, by virtue of their having nukes at the time they signed the
           treaty.  Notable countries w/nuke tech but w/o nuke weapons who have
           signed:  Japan, Iran.  Notable countries which produced nukes at
           signed:  Japan, Iran.  Notable countries which developed nukes at
           a time when they were not NPT signatories:  India, Pakistan, Israel.
           Now guess which countries had nukes at the time they signed the NPT?
           Iran.  Now guess which countries had nukes at the time they signed
           the NPT?
2006/9/1-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran] UID:44230 Activity:kinda low
9/1     Highly enriched uranium found in peace love electricity needing Iran.
        \_ Why do you bother?  I think it's clear they want a bomb, they're
           working towards a bomb, and that likely they'll get a bomb, the
           only thing up for discussion right now is whether or not they
            have any "right" to it, and how to deal with them once they
            succeed... -John
            \_ There is no such thing as a "right" to anything.  They either
               have the tech, the resources and the will power to do it or
               they don't.  The rest of the world has the tech, the resources
               and the will power to stop them or they don't.  There is no
               such thing as international rights, international law or other
               similar fabrications.
               \_ hey, the freshmen are back in town.  -tom
                  \_ ad hominem.  non-responsive.  F.
                     \_ Responding to a red herring is pointless.  -tom
                        \_ then don't respond if you feel it is a red herring.
                           ad hominem is never the appropriate response.  also,
                           you might want to look up "red herring".
                           \_ exactly which MOTD have you been reading?  -tom
                              \_ the same one as you.  mine has tons of smart
                                 people talking about interesting stuff who
                                 often provide links to sites and info I
                                 wouldn't otherwise see, interspersed with a
                                 few non-contributors.  what is on your motd?
                                 \_ apparently, mine has self-righteous
                                    anonymous cowards who love MOTD Boob Guy.
                                    \_ mine also has a few mostly harmless
                                       people amusing themselves and a few
                                       others.  nothing wrong with that.
        \_ Of course they have a right to it.  They have a right to make a
           massive weapon that they can use to threaten their enemies with.
           And we have a right to do everything in our power to stop them
           from getting it.  It's not about rights.  It's about power.  We
           have it and we don't want them to get it.
           \_ Agreed.
           \_ Kewl, so we can forget about all that UN silliness, or the WTO
              or any sense of obligation to honor treaties we sign, might
              makes right!  W00t!  -John
              \_ Welcome to the real world.  If a long term treaty obligation
                 is against a nation's interests they *should* break the
                 treaty unless breaking it involves even worse consequences.
                 Everything is about national interest and a nation's ability
                 to enforce their will.  The UN, WTO, and every other multi-
                 national .org only exist at the whim of the member states who
                 have decided that continuing the existence of these groups and
                 sometimes following their rules is more valuable than
                 scrapping the agreements and going alone.  The UN isn't some
                 magical creature that has some inherent right and power.  Like
                 the League of Nations it is likely to be swept aside by
                 history only to be remembered by historians as an interesting
                 footnote at best.  Nations will continue on by some name.
                 Powerless orgs will come and go.
                 \_ So if there are no cops around, and I'm confident that I
                    can kick your ass and take your lunch money, than I not
                    only *can* kick your ass and take your lunch money, I have
                    the historical mandate to do so.  Could you please post how
                    much lunch money you usually carry, where you eat lunch,
                    and how you get there?  Thanks!
                        \- the lunch episode exists in a state of
                           law ["the cops are not around"]. states
                           exist in an anarchic system [anarchic =
                           no hierarchy, not "it is random and
                           chaotic"]. life for individual in the
                           (anarhcic) state of nature is "nasty,
                           brutish, and short" ... but a state can
                           potentially survive [e.g. it doesnt have
                           to sleep], but it needs to rely on itself.
                           anayway, you cannot compare the possibility
                           of cooperation under the rule of a soverign
                           [who can enforce contracts, has monopoly on
                           use of force etc], and the self-help system
                           that characterizes the system of states.
                           See: Hedley Bull: The Anarchical Society (not
                           that great, but it is The Standard for background),
                           and Waltz: Man, the State and War (excellent,
                           not too hard going), and Waltz: Theory of Interntl
                           Politics (some what involved read, but The Standard
                           on IR).
                    \_ Yes and no.  If you're willing to deal with the
                       consequences afterwards then yes you might get one
                       day's worth of lunch money and then find yourself
                       suspended from school or your knees broken the next day,
                       etc.  Cute analogy but doesn't fully apply since you
                       and I aren't nations.  The difference between personal
                       conflict and national is that nations are more
                       amorphous than people but can theoretically live on
                       forever.  Individuals are always subject to the
                       consequences of their actions by the state, their
                       neighbors, etc.  Unless you're a super villain you
                       can't get away with things a powerful nation can, or
                       even a weaker nation within it's own regional sphere
                       of influence.  I'm sure you knew all this but I thought
                       your cute reply deserved a response.
                       \_ stop digging.  -tom
                          \_ uh whatever.
                       \_ I bet you're one of these people who're surprised
                          about being treated rudely as an American when
                          abroad or when a bomb goes off in Manhattan.  There
                          are no "international cops", yes, but you know what,
                          in the absence of law & order, vigilanteism arises.
                          And guess what, if the response of the stronger is
                          to go kick the ass of the weaker, the weaker won't
                          hit back at the stronger's army, they'll hit back at
                          his soft spot, i.e. you.  -John
                          \_ All part of national interest.  Being treated
                             rudely as a tourist has to be weighed against
                             other interests.  In my book that weighs quite
                             low.  Anyway, if I get treated rudely as a tourist
                             it is much more likely because most people are
                             just rude idiots or they simply hate all tourists
                             than some grand geo-political statement and their
                             small effort to Fight The Man.  As far as soft vs.
                             hard spots goes, that is another thing to be
                             weighed.  I'm sure the US would be safe from
                             Muslim terrorists if we all converted to Islam,
                             \_ If you really believe this, then you're an
                                \_ If you really believe this, then you're an
                             but I'm ok being a soft spot rather than join an
                             ugly 8th century cult of death.  I certainly
                             agree that we're taking the wrong approach to
                             the middle east's Islamic states.  We should
                             either just go home, leave a power gap and let
                             it sort itself out or stomp them down for real
                             instead of this namby pamby stuff.  I'll bet the
                             secular states in the region would much more
                             quickly crush the extremist Islamic movements in
                             their areas than us if their to their own devices.
2006/9/1-5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44231 Activity:nil
9/1     More proof that Karl Rove was involved and Bush should be impeached.
        Of course there won't be a single mea culpa on this one from the left.
        "Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the
        end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go
        public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out
        -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and
        that his report had circulated to senior administration officials. He
        ought to have expected that both those officials and journalists such
        as Mr. Novak would ask why a retired ambassador would have been sent
        on such a mission and that the answer would point to his wife. He
        diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming
        that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal
        conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously."
        \_ If this was all so harmless, why did Cheney's chief of staff
           take the risk of lying to a federal prosecutor about it?
           \_ Who said he lied about it?  Has he been found guilty of anything?
              In this country he's still innocent until *proven* guilty in a
              *court of law* not the media.  No one has been found guilty of
              anything except Armitage, Powell, and the State Department folks
              who knew the truth years ago and only recently let it be known.
              \_ err... Guantonimo Bay, Cuba?
                 \_ Uh?  what's that have to do with scooter or plame/wilson or
                    anything else on this thread?
        \_ That op-ed seems deluded.  There is plenty of evidence that
           Cheney and Rove instructed their staff to gather 'dirt' on
           Wilson and ruin anyone who got in the way of their
           campaign to convince the public that Iraq was trying to
           acquire nuclear weapons.
           \_ Plenty of evidence, such as?  This is from the WaPo who were at
              the forefront of the "frog-march Cheney" brigade.  This is a huge
              180 from their former position.  What do you know that the WaPo
        \_ Joe Wilson on the matter of Iraq, Niger, and yellowcake:
           \_ Published in 2003 and since then, fortunately, enough facts have
              come out that even WaPo now says he's a liar.  Seriously,
              sometimes people we trust, especially public gov.  figures with
              an axe to grind lie to us.  Wilson is a liar.  Delay is corrupt.
              The other guy was stashing $90k in his freezer.  Most of them
              are cheating on their spouses, taking campaign money in exchange
              for votes and 'custom' legislation, taking freebie trips on your
              tax dollars and their patron corporate sponsors.  Washington is
              dirty.  There are no clean hands in the entire city, no heros.
              dirty.  There are no clean hands in the entire city, no heroes.
              Deal with it.
              \_ the WaPo editorial board is full of nincompoops
                 \_ For a bunch of nincompoops they sure do get quoted a lot
                    on the motd without anyone questioning the quality of
                    their editorials or their neutrality.
              \_ Spell out for me, using facts and sources, how Wilson was
                 wrong about Iraq, Niger, and yellowcake.
                 \_ Answering myself, so don't bother to flame:
                    \_ I don't have an agenda or an axe to grind.  I wouldn't
                       have flamed.  I'm interested in the truth and a govern-
                       ment free of corruption no matter who is in office.
                       There are no heroes in Washington D.C.  I don't see it
                       as you vs. me but the truth vs. a blizzard of lies and
                       propaganda from the agenda driven power pols in DC, the
                       media, corporate board rooms, etc.  Had Wilson proved to
                       be honest and if his wife was actually a secret agent
                       who got her cover blown then I'd be the first one
                       calling for heads to roll.
2006/9/1-3 [Uncategorized] UID:44232 Activity:nil
9/1     Sorcery makes my skin crawl!,7340,L-3298039,00.html
2006/9/1-3 [Uncategorized] UID:44233 Activity:nil
9/1     Which cell phone carrier has the cheapest
        'as many text messages as you can handle' plan?
2006/9/1-4 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44234 Activity:nil
9/1 (
        "We've never seen a general decline in the housing market against a
        healthy economic backdrop where jobs are being created, the economy is
        growing and interest rates are favorable ... Contributing to this
        hesitancy is a lot of negative news stories, but in the end we believe
        that underlying market fundamentals will prevail."
        - National Association of Realtors Chief Economist David Lereah
        \_  I have no further comments.
           \_ This is just a bunch of quotes from D.L. archived by some
              random dude (as far as I can figure).  What about it?
        \_ That guy is a hack.
           \_ Correction - "hack" doesn't really get it right.  More like
              "That guy is a paid shill for the real estate industry."
        \_ there is a report that we are already in a recession!
           \_ There is no civil war, we're not losing the war in Iraq,
              and the economy is stronger than ever.    -Republican
2006/9/1-3 [Computer/Networking, Computer/HW] UID:44235 Activity:nil
9/1     I want to add a quick and dirty alias for a server on my local machine.
        So instead of using some-really-long-host-name, I want to use srlhn:
        scp me@srlhn:foo
        But if I put that into /etc/hosts, it requires an IP address, and this
        server may be changing its IP address from time to time.  I'm not
        running DNS.  Any suggestions?
                -- tcsh user suffering from RSI
                \_ read the ssh config man page,
                        just edit your personal ssh settings in

                        Host srlhn
                         HostName some-really-long-host-name
                  \_ my fingers and I thank you.
2006/9/1-5 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:44236 Activity:nil
9/1     Diesel > Hybrids >>> Hydrogen
        \_ "On an open road, the conventional engine actually gets better gas
           mileage. When you look at the Prius's true mileage, there are
           plenty of conventional vehicles that do as well or better."
           \_ are you stupid or something?  Hybrid is best at stop-n-go
              traffic where accelearation/deceleration is frequent.  For that
              purpose alone, hybrid is worth the investment.
              *FURTHER*  great thing about hybrid is that it's not an
              exclusive technology.  we could easily come up with a
              electric / diesel hybrid that take advantage of both world.
              By the way, the reasons why GM and rest hyped about hydrogen
              are:  1.  it is decades away so it's a good PR stunt to prentent
              they are doing SOMETHING about the environment.  2. guess where
              the hydrogen going to come from?  you bet, fossil fuel.  So,
              by going with hydrogen, car makers won't break the centry-old
              alliance with the petroleum industry.
              \_ hybrids don't break that either. what would you have them do?
                 \_ if you know anything about this subject, you will know that
                    it is impossible to break dependency on fossil fuel.
                    Instead of shooting for an impossible dream, one need to
                    embrace incremental improvement on efficiency.
              \_ momma always said stupid is as stupid does
        \_ Do hybrids have a giant battery similar to pure electrics?  Battery
           disposal is going to be a huge problem later.
        \_ Uh, diesel and hybrids aren't mutually exclusive (and
           "future" has only one "r").
2006/9/1-4 [Science/Electric] UID:44237 Activity:nil
9/1     eGo, go electric!
2006/9/1-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44238 Activity:nil
9/1     Headlines as of 2PM:
        FoxNews: Iraq Edging Closer to Civil War, Report Says
        CNN: Pentagon: Cold-blooded carnage soaring in Iraq
        Edging closer vs carnage soaring. Fair and balanced my ass.
        \_ You can have soaring carnage without a civil war.  They should
           use that headline.  "Soaring carnage, edging closer to civil war"
2006/9/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44239 Activity:nil 90%like:44243
9/1     Cal Thomas, "Al Gore is Right About the Media"
2006/9/1-5 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:44240 Activity:nil
9/1     How many of you bought one of those new Intel CPUs, whatd you pay
        and what are you doing with it?  --Just curious
        \_ E6600, $380 on release day, games and replacing old machine mostly.
        \_ didn't buy, leery of initial CPU/mobo releases and especially the
           strange mobo pricing for Core 2 Duo.  The dev and ramping of C2D
           seem unusually rushed.
           seem worryingly rushed.  Also, review sites need to perform reviews
           on anonymously ordered CPUs, not on CPUs donated by Intel which
           probably have lowest power draw for its stepping, the donations
           occurring far in advance of widespread product availability.
2006/9/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:44241 Activity:nil 85%like:44244
        We're already in there, how about using Agent Orange?
        \_ Because it's toxic to humans?
           [don't edit my posts please, add your own comment if you have
            something to say.  thanks.]
2006/9/1 [Uncategorized] UID:44242 Activity:moderate
9/1     The "Scream" was recovered:
        \_ See yesterday's thread on the same topic below.
2006/9/1-5 [Recreation/Celebrity, Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:44243 Activity:nil 90%like:44239
9/1     Cal Thomas, "Al Gore is Right About the Media" (
        \_ Who the hell is Cal Thomas?
2006/9/1-5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44244 Activity:nil 85%like:44241
9/1 (
        We're already in there, how about using Agent Orange?
        \_ Because it's toxic to humans?
        \_ Because it's toxic to Americans?
           [don't edit my posts please, add your own comment if you have
            something to say.  thanks.]
            something to say.  thanks. -white person]
        \_ Because it's toxic to harmans?
2006/9/1-5 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:44245 Activity:moderate
9/1     I want to give a small gift to several faculty members who are
        writing me letters of recommendation. What's an appropriate,
        professional gift I could get them? Any ideas will be appreciated.
        \_ A big brown paper bag full of cash.  Make sure you hand it over
           in person with no witnesses present.  Preferably in a dark
        \_ If you are female and the professors are female, get a gift card
           to Nordstrom or a day spa like Burke Williams.
           If you are male and the professors are female, get a gift card to
           your favorite classy lunch spot.
           If you are female and the professors are male, a simple piece
           of paper with your phone number written on it, along with the
           short message "Call me anytime" will suffice.
           If you are male and the professors are male, then you are a total
        \_ Succeed in their field and expand their empire.  Mwuahahahah!!!
           I think it's clear what they all want.
        \_ Paper weight.
        \_ Starbucks gift cards. My profs really liked these.
        \_ Nice pens.  -John
           \_ but nice pens cost a lot.  wouldn't you think it would both
              parties a bit uncomfortable?   How about a nice, made-in-China
              fake pens?  Tell him/her flat out that those are fakes.  It
              has a lot of entertainment value.
              \_ They needed.  Yes, if you're looking at ebony & silver
              \_ They needn't.  Yes, if you're looking at ebony & silver
                 Faber-Castell fountain pens, they'll run a few hundred.  But
                 Cross and others make really nice, not-crazily-priced ones
                 too.  Anyway, it was just a suggestion.  The wine idea
                 below is good too (just make sure they drink.)  -John
              \- ObBottleofWineInYourBudget. Even if faculty member doesnt
                 drink can take to colleague party. Give a gift that is
                 consumable rather than persistent. If you are in Berkeley,
                 go down to Kermit Lynch and talk to one of them.
                        \_ Does a big variety bag full of different types
                           of condoms from Good Vibrations count as
                           "consumable rather than persistent?"
                           \_ Yes, those are consumable.  However, you may
                              be sending the wrong message to your professor.
                        \_ I considered wine, but I then I thought (falsely?)
                           that alcohol might be inappropriate. I'll
                           consider it now. -op
                           \- a bottle of tequila is inappropriate.
                              wine is ok. [well i suppose it is
                              possible if one is muslim or something
                              like that it might be inapprorpate.
                              but wine is easy to get rid of in the
                              academic social milleu]. wine is the
2006/9/1-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:44246 Activity:kinda low
9/1     The UN finds the perfect force to prevent Hezbollah from rearming!
        Syria (not kidding) (
        \_ Israel has made one stragetic mistake after another.  One of the
           biggest mistake is impose air and see embargo against Lebanon
           even cease fire has taken effect.  By doing so, Lebanon's only
           route to the outside world is via Syria.  UN has previously express
           "concern" that weapons will flow to the Hezbollah and some even
           propose having an international force patrol the border.  Syria
           threatening to close off the border complely if UN decided to do so,
           which will spark humantarian crisis among Lebanonese civilians.
           UN right now have no choice but allow Syrian do whatever they want
           to keep the border open.
           \_ 1) So in order to keep weapons from flowing back in to rearm
              Hezbollah, your best answer is to completely open all the
              borders so they can be rearmed via land, air or sea instead of
              just the Syrian border?  2) The UN has never had any choice in
              just the Syrian border?
              \_ No, I am saying that a better alternative is to open air and
                 sea, but have an UN mandated patrol along with Syria border.
                 If Syria decide to seal the border, than, we can actually
                 say "go ahead."
                 \_ Exactly.  So with open sea and air, weapons can fly and
                    float right in directly from Iran or anywhere else in the
                    world.  What a brilliant idea.  That way there is no real
                    pressure on the Syrians to keep weapons from flooding in
                    via their border so they can claim they adhered to the
                    UN border mandate, we can all feel really good about a
                    diplomatic success, Hezbollah can rearm really fast, so
                    they can get back to what they do best: killing civilians
                    by firing rockets over a settled border with a nation that
                    isn't occupying any Lebanese land in order to 'resist'
                    the continuing non-occupation of Lebanese land.  Truly
                    brilliant.  There's a place in the State Department for
                    people with ideas like that.
                    \_ 1. flying air and transfer by sea is more difficult than
                       truck loads of AK47s and rockets. 2. airport and harbors
                       are in the full control of Lebanonese government, which
                       is a better party to deal with.  Would these measure
                       stop the flow of weapons?  no. would it slow it down and
                       make the logistics more expensive for Hezbollah? i
                       would say yes.  The purpose is making rearming Hezbollah
                       difficult.  If this means make Syria looked good at the
                       same time, so be it.
                       \_ No, the purpose is to prevent Hezbollah from ever
                          rearming.  I have no idea where you came up with
                          the idea that shipping by truck is somehow more
                          efficient than shipping by... ship.  And by air
                          is certainly faster if speed is important.  As
                          far as dealing with the Lebanese government being
                          a better party to deal with... better than what?
                          Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government and
                          also separate and stronger than the Lebanese
                          government in the ways that count.  You're just
                          making up random stuff and really have no idea
                          what you're talking about.  Ending the blockade
                          will not somehow magically make it harder to bring
                          in a zillion tons of weapons to Hezbollah at a
                          critical time in the region.
                          \_ I am more realistic, you want all-or-nothing
                             which won't get you anywhere.  Airport and
                             harbor are a much easier to control than a
                             complete open-border.  If you are talking about
                             smuggling, then, it's a different story.
                             You can't stop Smuggling. you can only manage it.
                             \_ That isn't realism.  That's fatalism.  "It is
                                hard so let's pretend to do something useful
                                elsewhere and ignore the elephant walking
                                across the border".  There is no benefit at all
                                to Israel to end the blockade.  There is a big
                                short term minus to the Lebanese to have a
                                strict blockade and a big long term plus if it
                                means their weak and ineffective government
                                will finally be out of excuses and be forced to
                                take control of their own territory from
                                Hezbollah which can then lead to peace, trade,
                                and normalized relations with Israel which is
                                good for everyone, except Hezbollah, Syria,
                                and Iran.
              2) The UN has never had any choice in
              anything anywhere in the world.  The UN is powerless and exists
              at the whim of the member nations.  It has an extremely poor
              track record of enforcement.  Why?  Because enFORCEment requires
              at least the implied threat of FORCE which is impossible for the
              UN as a dependent body.  The UN does not exist to make anything
              happen.  It exists as a place where the countries of the world
              can air their grievances in the _hope_ that a diplomatic
              solution can be formed.  3) It is long past time for the locals
              to kick the foreign funded Hezbollah to the curb and retake
              their country but the government of Lebanon isn't interested in
              their own people's well being.
              \_ The government of Lebanon is trying to avoid another civil
                 war which no one but Syria was able to stablize it.
                 This entire notion of having UN peace keeper is a joke.
                 In order to enforce the peace, UN need to have the capability
                 and the stomach to both take on Hezbollah *AND* Israel.
                 UN forces can't do anything.  Its presense is nothing but
                 a face-saving gesture for both side to stop fighting.
        \_ I feel bad for the Lebanese, the ones I know (these are the
           civilized, merchant ones, not the unwashedeen) hate the Syrians and
           Hezbollah almost as much as the Israelis.  Poor bastards.  -John
           \_ Hate Hezbollah?  Ack!  They must be anti-Arabists and hate
              the Lebanese people too!  Hezbollah, as we all know, is merely
              defending the good people of Lebanon from the evil Jew Zionist
           \_ those who live in Lebanon no longer hates Hezbollah.  Thanks to
              US policy :D
2006/9/1-5 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:44247 Activity:nil
9/2     Iranian views of US from an ex-official
        This guy got his finger nail torned during Shah's regime because
        of his political activities back in the day.
        \_ Non-archived version: (
2022/01/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:September:01 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>