Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:August:17 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/8/17-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:44038 Activity:nil
8/17    Any movabletype experts on soda? When I try to create an entry
        on my blog I get a huge perl process and 'Out of Memory!' in my
        error log. The post appears in an individual archive but not on
        the main page. Thanks! -sameer
        \_ Maybe the post is generating an E_HOTAIR.
2006/8/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:44039 Activity:nil 97%like:44053
8/16    Sad but true.  NYPost oped on Hezbollah/Israel.
2006/8/17-19 [Health] UID:44040 Activity:nil
8/17    What the hell is up with the reposts? I mean, yes, censorship's a
        pain, but the solution is to reverse it, not bump the thread to the
        \_ Au contraire mon frere!  The answer is to rub it in the wound
           until they squirm and break.  It'll stop sooner that way.
           \_ ob trolling from yesterday so you won't be trolled today
2006/8/17-18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44041 Activity:nil
        France surrenders preemtively.
        \_ Does that mean we have to start calling them "Freedom Fries" again?
2006/8/17 [Uncategorized] UID:44042 Activity:nil
8/16    If you had the power [BALEETED 'cos you're a tool]
2006/8/17 [Computer/SW/Security, Recreation/Humor] UID:44043 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto 80%like:44052
8/17    This is pretty funny:  -John
2006/8/17-24 [Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:44044 Activity:low
8/17    For the sake of posterity, San Diego County had its first year-over-
        year decline in median home price in June 2006 (for the current cycle).
        L.A. and the Bay Area have not gone negative year-over-year, yet.
        Also, if you look at month-to-month, I believe San Diego County
        went negative Jan 2006, but not certain about that. (
        \_ Keep dreaming if you think the real estate markets in L.A. and
           the Bay Area are going to crash.  Maybe there will be a slight
           market correction and a 10 percent price dip, but if you ride
           out the dip over the next couple of years, your home price will
           be fine.  To all you renters out there, you are still screwed.
           \_ All renters are screwed, huh?  By "renter", you mean anyone
              who wants to live and work in california, but who does not
              already own a home.  In other words, any recent college,
              highschool or professional school graduate, any immigrant,
              or anyone from out of state--i.e. the workforce that would
              be required to grow or even continue the california economy
              at its current levels.  When one of you California homeowners
              retires, who's going to replace you?  When you want to grow
              your business, who are you going to hire?  You'll only be able
              to get so many suckers to spend 10 times their annual salary on a
              home, which means that when there are no more suckers, the
              california economy will shrink hard and fast.  It's already
              happening, as business leave your state in droves to Texas
              and other parts of the southwest to escape your la-la-land
              prices.  And as the economy continues to shrink, the number of
              people willing to pay your prices will continue to drop.  Do
              you really think that in the face of a rapidly shrinking economy,
              these prices will be sustainable?  Or perhaps you think there
              will always be another sucker willing to move to california to
              either be a serf to the landowning class forever or pay 10 times
              their yearly salary for a home?
              \_ Try to come up with a convincing argument.  Your entry just
                 says that you think houses prices will crash because: (1) CA
                 homewoners will retire someday, (2) people are going to get
                 tired of over-paying for homes, and (3) CA business are going
                 to move to Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico.  Now, it may be
                 true that CA residential real estate prices drop, but it won't
                 be because of CA homeowners retiring, people suddenly becoming
                 smart about home prices, or because of this supposed future
                 max exodus of CA business to dust bowl crappy states like
                 Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico.  The truth is that because
                 there are so many more professionals and people in general in
                 California, that has increased the demand for homes, as there
                 is a limited amount of space here.  And unfortunately, people
                 don't all of a sudden realize that they should correct market
                 prices.  People are stupid.  And trust me, no one in CA is
                 worried about the "threat" of its neighboring crappy states.
                 The SF Bay Area, which is the financial and technology center
                 of the West, and Los Angeles, which is the entertainment capital
                 of the world, aren't worried about New Mexico.  Believe me.  But
                 anyway, in the meantime, have fun in your 750 square foot studio.
                 \_ Your summary of those reasons is generally correct; the crash
                    or whatever you wish to call it will happen for basic economic
                    reasons.  When most homes are bought for speculation, an
                    increase of value of say, >10% is needed to cover the various
                    fees for the sale, any upgrades you added, and the cost of
                    of the house itself (assuming this is a 2nd home).
                    Without such growth, the speculators lose money.  When most
                    of the GDP growth, increase in jobs, etc. is from the real
                    estate boom, a pause in real estate is sufficient to gut the
                    economy.  Which, of course, will go back to house prices.
                    Oh, and DQ News reports 30-40% decline in sales volume for the
                    BA.  Pull up a chair, pop a beer, and wait for the fun.
                 of the West, and Los Angeles, which is the entertainment
                 capital of the world, aren't worried about New Mexico.
                 Believe me.  But anyway, in the meantime, have fun in
                 your 750 square foot studio.
                 \_ Your summary of those reasons is generally correct;
                    the crash or whatever you wish to call it will happen
                    for basic economic reasons.  When most homes are bought
                    for speculation, an increase of value of say, >10%
                    is needed to cover the various fees for the sale, any
                    upgrades you added, and the cost of of the house itself
                    (assuming this is a 2nd home).  Without such growth, the
                    speculators lose money.  When most of the GDP growth,
                    increase in jobs, etc. is from the real estate boom, a
                    pause in real estate is sufficient to gut the economy.
                    Which, of course, will go back to house prices.  Oh,
                    and DQ News reports 30-40% decline in sales volume
                    for the BA.  Pull up a chair, pop a beer, and wait for
                    the fun.
                    \_ As a home owner for several years I don't care *at all*
                       what happens to housing pricing.  The only time the
                       prices matter to me is when I'm trying to sell my
                       current home to buy a new one.  I tried to explain this
                       to a renter-wannabe-home-owner at work several times
                       but he keeps gloating as prices in the area slowly
                       decline.  I'd love to see housing prices crash to the
                       price of a cup of coffee so I could easily sell my home
                       in 5 minutes and buy anything I wanted much closer to
                       work where homes are nicer and going for over a million.
                       Housing prices going up and down is normal and healthy
                       and good for home owners overall.  As a home owner I am
                       not losing money when prices drop since I choose when
                       I sell and since I want a more expensive house than I
                       have now prices compressing downwards saves me money
                       when I move to a nicer place even though my house has
                       also dropped in price.  It will not have dropped as
                       much as the place I want.  --someone else
                       \_ Exactly. So your house is worth $700K and drops
                          20% to $550K. The house you want is worth $1M
                          and drops to $800K. The gap is now $50K less.
                          If you bought your place for, say, $350K then
                          this can be a boon depending on rates. If
                          housing prices drop then it's a buying opportunity,
                          if you can afford it. If they don't drop, then
                          you've lost nothing. That said, I certainly
                          wouldn't buy now if I didn't already own.
           \_ I am a homeowner in LA and also studying to be a real estate
              broker. I think a 10% decline is optimistic. We will see
              perhaps as much as a 30% decline. However, so what, unless
              you're sitting on a huge pile of cash?
              \_ If you think a million-dollar home will suddenly
                 depreciate in value to 700K in the span of 1 year or 2
                 years, and if you think starter homes in middle-class
                 neighborhoods currently at about 600K will suddenly drop
                 to about 400K, you are living in fantasyland.
                 \_ I don't know what the span of time will be, but I
                    think that this will happen as long as interest rates
                    continue to rise. It's happened before. However, like I
                    said, so what?\
                    \_ The last time it happened was the early '90s when the
                       drop in prices was due to a serious national economic
                       recession, high unemployment rates, and increased
                       taxes (thank you George Bush Sr.).  Somehow, we have
                             \_I'm glad you truthfully wrote that Mitchell
                               pushed for this as Senate Majority leader.
                                \_ "Read my lips.  No new taxes."
                                        -George H. Bush, Sr.
                       been able to avoid a recession, significant rises in
                       the unemployment rate, and any tax hikes.  If that
                       stuff DOES all happen in the near future, housing
                       prices will be the least of all our worries.
                       \_ I think that all of this is possible, but the
                          driver will be rising interest rates. As for how
                          important this is to "you", that is your own
                          list of priorities.
                                \_ Dude, anything is "possible."  But the
                                   reason for rising interest rates is to
                                   put a damper on inflation.  Rising
                                   interest rates do not lead by themselves
                                   to a recession, increased unemployment,
                                   or added taxes.
2006/8/17-19 [Computer/Companies/Yahoo] UID:44045 Activity:nil
8/16    Yahoo! collects over 10 terabytes of clickstream behavioral data each
        day, the equivalent of all the information within the Library of
        Congress. Yahoo!s user data warehouse is in the order of 'petabytes?
        - the largest in the world. Yahoo! serves nearly half a billion unique
        users. Yahoo! is one of  Fortune's 100 Best Companies to Work For.
        Yahoo! is looking for key hires to leverage all of this data for
        actionable strategies and systems:
          1. Data Mining Applications Engineer (Senior) Sunnyvale, CA
          2. Data Mining Applications Engineer (Contract) Sunnyvale, CA
          3. Data Mining Applications Engineer (Senior) Burbank, CA
        Please email your resume to
        \_ Yahoo: when I was there they were a shambles.  Imagine what a
           dotcom would look like if they bought a hundred other dotcoms after
           going public and grew to >10k people world wide:  Yaaa HOOOOOO!
           \_ Personally, I think Yahoo is a pretty good place to work.  When
              I joined in 04, benefits were good, the campus is pleasant, the
              prospects for advancement are good and the work is interesting.
              There's more red tape than I'd like, but I suppose that's
              probably the price you pay for the stability of working at a
              large company.                                 -mice
              \_ That's not what their own internal surveys say about
                 engineer happiness but in any large place there will be
                 niches where some folks will find a cool place to hide.
2006/8/17-19 [Health/Women] UID:44046 Activity:nil
8/17    Breast implants linked to suicide
        \_ "Women who think they need breast implants tend to be suicidal"
2006/8/17-19 [Uncategorized] UID:44047 Activity:nil
8/17 if you really care.
2006/8/17-19 [Computer/SW/Languages, Recreation/Humor] UID:44048 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
        The Unlambda Programming Language. Your Functional Programming
        Language Nightmares Come True. The act of learning Unlambda is oh
        so boring and meaningless and you just want to kill yourself. In
        another word, it is like being in grad school.  -kchang
2006/8/17-19 [Recreation/Humor] UID:44049 Activity:nil
8/17    Wow, aliens can really rock.  (Funny pic)
2006/8/17-19 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:44050 Activity:nil
8/17    Tim Bray switches back:
2006/8/17-23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:44051 Activity:kinda low
8/17    District Judge strikes down NSA eavesdropping program:
        Order (and subsequent Notice of Appeal) can be found as:
        \_ Ok, the clock's long will it be until a prominent
           Republican advocates killing judges again?
           \_ Ok, it's been more than 24 hours.  Who has said that?
                 As with Falwell's statements supporting the 9/11 terrorists,
                 there is weasel room, but it's clear where these people stand
                 if you take off you really listen to them.  I'm guessing the
                 same tool who ends up responding to this post saying that
                 he's "not really justifying the murder of judges" will be one
                 of the tools who claimed that Falwell was not siding with
                 the terrorists after 9/11.  People like you will end up
                 destroying this country if you are not stopped or don't
              \_ Ann Coulter, who else?
                 \_ She is an entertainer, not a prominent Republican.
                    Try naming a prominent Republican.  It's been several
                    days now and the total is zero, of course.
                    \_ She is prominent in the sense that she stands out
                       because she is blonde, thin, and female, which is much
                       different than your typical fat, bald, ugly middle-aged
                       guys who make up the majority of the Republican
                       gene pool.  -Michael Moore
                       \_ Michael Moore is a Republican?  Go figure... I never
                          knew that.
                          \_ Mihael Moore isn't bald.  But Rush Limbaugh is.
                             \_ Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer, too.  I'm
                                still waiting to see a prominent Republican
                                who called for death for this judge.  it's
                                been several days now.
                                \_ you're mincing words.  Ann Coulter is
                                   both prominent and Republican.  Which of
                                   those words do you disagree with?  -tom
                                   \_ This is a sophomoric argument unworthy
                                      of a Berkeley graduate.  Any freshman
                                      English major could tell you that words
                                      formed into a phrase mean more than the
                                      individual words apart.  I'm not
                                      mincing words, but you are trolling.
                                      Go turn your degree back in at Sproul
                                      or University Hall immediately.
                                      \_ You are dismissing the fact that
                                         the placement of aggressive
                                         talking heads like Coulter and
                                         Limbaugh on national media (billed
                                         as commentators, not entertainers)
                                         is part of a very intentional
                                         conservative/Republican strategy.
                                         \_ Who says they are commentators and
                                            who placed them?  Someone planted
                                            RL at a small radio station almost
                                            20 years ago planning for his take
                                            over of conservative talk radio
                                            today?  I don't know how AC
                                            describes herself but if you had
                                            ever listened to the RL show you'd
                                            know his byline is "here to educate
                                            and entertain you", not "comment on
                                            political stuff".
                                         \_ Placing?  No one "placed" either
                                            of them.  Now you're just being
                                            ridiculous and conspiratorial.
                                            \_ Read "Don't Think of an
                                               Elephant."  -tom
                                               \_ He shoots!  He misses!
                                                  You're a troll and a
                                                  conspiracy theory lunatic.
                                                  \_ tom's a lot of things, but
                                                     he's not a troll. big tip:
                                                     trolls don't sign their
                                                     names. better hunting
                                                     next time.
                                                     \_ signing doesn't save
                                                        one from being a troll
                                                        but ill just go with
                                                        conspiracy theory
                                                        lunatic since you're
                                                        ok with that.
                                                        \_ You know, it really
                                                           doesn't lend any
                                                           credibility to your
                                                           claims when you're
                                                           the one coming
                                                           off as a ranting
                                                           irrational lunatic.
                                                           irrational poster.
                                                           \_ If facts are
                                                              irrational then
                                                              so be it.
        \_ Darn Al Qaeda activist judges who hate America?
        \_ No judge (or judges) can stand in the way of the NSA defending
           this country.
           \_ Cuz that whole constitution thing is "quaint"
              \_ What happened to the left's "living document" theory of the
                 Constitution?  Or does that only apply when inventing new
                 rights or limiting others that the left likes?
                 \_ Welcome to a non-binary world, where we can have a
                    "living document" that changes to accommodate progress
                    while continuing to protect the citizenry from its rulers.
              \_ All things in this world are limited, even the constitution.
                 \_ why do you hate america?
                    \_ America!  FUCK YEAH!!! -T.E.A.M. America World Police
                 \_ what about executive privilege?
                    \_ Nah, that shit is unlimited. -George Fucking Bush
           \_ Who will defend us from the defenders?
              \_ Second Amendment, Defender of the Rest (seriously).
              \_ You have to trust someone in order to live in society.
                 \_ Certainly, but that can still be a trust based on
                    supervision and accountability.
                        \_ I find your lack of faith ... disturbing -- Darth
                           \_ Wrong Darth:
        \_ Why does this Judge hate freedom?
           \_ Because some things are worth fighting for.  -William Wallace
              \_ You mean LIKE FREEDOM?!?!  -Mel Gibson #1 fan
              \_ You mean like FREEDOM?!?  -Mel Gibson #1 fan
        \_ It doesn't matter.  They're going to keep doing it no matter what
           any court says.  All hail King George!
2006/8/17-19 [Computer/SW/Security, Recreation/Humor] UID:44052 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto 80%like:44043
8/17    This is pretty funny: ( -John
        \_ Another funny link on the same page:
2006/8/17-19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:44053 Activity:nil 97%like:44039
8/17    Sad but true.  NYPost oped on Hezbollah/Israel. (
2006/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:44054 Activity:nil
8/17    JonBenet case solved!  Former school teacher admitted killing her.
        The parents are clear after all.
        \_ obWhoGivesAShit
           \- the parents may not be murderers, but they are all freaks
        \_ At this point it seems quite likely that this guys is lying, and
           it is a false confession.  He won't state anything verifiable
           about the case, (that wasn't in the news), and he was a strong
           alibi.  (His ex-wife claims he was with her in Alabama that day.)
           \_ Next time when you jack off to her pics you know which bastard
              took your sweetheart away from this world.
2006/8/17-19 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:44055 Activity:moderate
8/16    What car did you drive before, what car do you drive now, and what
        car do you plan to buy in the future? Left wing communist bikers like
        tom and lafe need not respond. Thanks.
        \_ So if I don't live the way you live, I'm a communist?  This sounds
           a bit like "no free speech for fascists".  "If you don't like the
           fact that your money is taken from you by force and spent on
           other people's transportation infrastructure and corporate
           subsidies for shitty American car companies than *you're* the
           left wing totalitarian!"  Right.  -lafe
           \_ I don't like that my money is taken from me by force and spent on
              a lot of things that benefit other people but not me.  Is that
              ok for a !bike rider?
           \_ Actually, tom is a left-wing communist biker.  He earns all of
              those monikers individually.
              \_  Then don't bring my name into it, fuckwit.  I almost
                  certainly have more familiarity with and hatred of communism
                  than you do.  It's funny how any single mention of "nazi"
                  and poeple on the motd start screaming "GODWIN!!!", but you
                  can go associating people with the other most loathesome
                  ideology in history and aparently it's ok.   You can
                  call me a misanthrope, a psycho foaming at the mouth
                  anti-car wingnut, an asshole, a spaz, or an idealist, but
                  don't FUCKING call me a communist.  -lafe
                  don't FUCKING call me a Yalie.  -lafe
                  \_ Kind of unrelated, but I don't think the curse word
                     helps in this case. -jrleek
                     \_ I think it's his way of starting an anti-communist
                        motd Godwin's law thing.
        \_ Bike, bike, bike. Get over it. -!tom|lafe
         \_ Motorcycle, subcompact, subcompact+bike
        \_ International Travelall (Think 1960's equivalent to Suburban),
           Toyota Celica, Jeep Cherokee.  future:  WHERE IS MY  FLYING CAR??
           THEY SAID THERE'D BE FLYING CARS!! -EricM (oh yeah, and RIDE BIKE!!)
           \_ I'll just repost my flying car post rather than re-write it:
        \_ 1987 Ford Escort Pony (1991-1992), 1984 Jeep Cherokee Chief (1992-
           1996), 1996 Jeep Cherokee Classic (1996-present), 2004 Toyota
           Sienna LE (2004-present).
        \_ 1994 Renault Safrane 2.2, 1998 Audi TT 1.8 & Jeep Wrangler, no
           fucking clue what I'll buy next but it won't be anything even
           remotely sensible.  -John
        \_ 1978 Datsun "babe magnet" 510 pea green station wagon, 1988 Honda
           Civic Hatchback, 2000 Mercedes E320, in the future? My current car
           should be able to last to the end of the gasoline crisis when I
           will be riding bike instead.
        \_ 1987 Ford LTD, 2004 WRX Wagon, Tango T100  --dbushong
        \_ 1986 Pontiac Something (sold at 18,000 miles, became a
                lemon car after just 1 year).
           1988 Toyota Camry (gave to my mom, better than Pontiac, still
                a piece of shit IMHO)
           I hated these cars until one day, I drove a Honda Accord, and
           the rest became history:
           1987 Honda Accord Lxi (sold at 170,000 miles in 98. Loved it)
           1998 Honda Accord LX  (still own ~140,000 miles and going. Love it)
           2006 Honda Accord LX  (~200 miles. Love it)
           BTW all the cars were purchased new. If I need to go to my best
           friend's wedding, drive the pregnant wife to the hospital, get to
           a job interview on time, I will not go into any car except the
           Accord. I've had many different cars in my life and the Accords
           were there for me during the worst times. Sure, my job sucked
           and my personal life was a total fuck up, but the Accord was
           always there for me. Nothing is more reliable than the Accord.
        \_ 1996 Lincoln Continental, 2003 Subaru Outback Wagon, probably an
           Outback Wagon or WRX Wagon (unless I win the lotto, in which case
           my next car will be a DB5).
        \_ 1995 Chevy Camaro, 1998-present; next will be a 2009 Camaro (unless
           they suck, like the new GTOs).
        \_ Hyundai Accordion (my first car so far)
        \_ 98-05 Ford Taurus (105k), 05-present Honda Accord Hybrid (30k so
           far).  I have no idea what I'll be driving when it's time to
           retire the Accord, but most likely another sedan.
        \_ 1970 Dodge Dart in high school, then a VW Rabbit in college,
           then a Ducati motorcycle. Now I ride the bus.
2006/8/17-22 [Consumer/GPS] UID:44056 Activity:nil
8/17    Does anyone have a TomTom GPS unit (any model)? If so, how well does
        it work in the SF Bay Area and the LA Area?
        \_ I've use a TomTom in the BA and a Magellan in socal.  Both sometimes
           give odd directions but will get you where you want to go fairly
           well.  I found the TomTom's interface significantly better, but
           other people disagree with me.  (The Magellan however was a lot
           easier to take with me or hide in the glove box.)
        \_ I have the PocketPC version (more or less the same as the older
           300 model).  I have used it all over Southern Cal and recently
           on a 10 states road-trip at North-Eastern US.  Overall, I would
           agree with PP that it'll get you to the dest.  However, I don't
           trust its direction completely.  I always do a sanity check
           on it.  Overall it works very well.
        \_ On a related note:  recommendations for a good gps, not too super-
           pricey, that I can use on its own (think car & some outdoors use) as
           well as in conjunction with a Powerbook?  -John
2006/8/17-19 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX, Recreation/Humor] UID:44057 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
        Keywords: cruise cruises geek unix photoshop linux macmania mac mania
        Keywords: Startrek cruise scifi cruise
        Category: Humor Funny cruise ship
2006/8/17-22 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:44058 Activity:nil
8/17    Predictions on much down in % that DELL will open at tomorrow morning
        compared to today's close?  It's already down 5.8% in after-hours.
        \_ Maybe they should liquidate the company and give the money back to
           the share holders - SJOBS
        \_ And that's all because of the Sony batteries!!!
           \_ I thought Sony was paying for that
        \_ In other news, Dell announced they'll be shipping desktops with AMD
           \_ They've done that for a while but you had to know who to talk
              to.  Kinda weird that Dell finally caught up with the market
              right after Intel finally came out with some decent chips.
           \_ That'd be funny, if Intel "told" on Dell because they went with
              AMD again.  It's not like Intel's doing anything illegal by
              reporting on their partner.
2006/8/17-22 [Uncategorized] UID:44059 Activity:nil
8/17    "I wonder if one ever hit elbow"  -John
        \_ You're a bad, bad man ;)
2006/8/17 [Uncategorized] UID:44060 Activity:nil
8/17    Um, test.
2006/8/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:44061 Activity:low
8/17    Entire media pwned over Ramsey "confession?"
        \_ The guy's story was a bit odd on day 1.  Once more details came
           out it became really clear this guy had nothing to do with her
           death.  He's a sicko and a crank but he didn't kill her.
        \_ That photo on the left looks like a still straight out of a movie.
           \_ Yeah, with hair light and all.
2006/8/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:44062 Activity:nil
8/17    George Bush loves pigs
        \_ I think Merkel was having a flashback of when he molested her
           during this press conference.
           \_ I'm sure Clinton would have shown his 'staff'
2006/8/17-22 [Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:44063 Activity:nil
8/17    One of my girlfriend's colleagues is doing a survey on motorcycle
        aftermarket parts/accessories.  Maybe you bikers would care to
        participate (there's a drawing for a gift certificate)  -John
2006/8/17-2007/8/7 [Uncategorized] UID:44064 Activity:moderate Entry has been invalidated. Access denied. 2022/01/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:August:17 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>