Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:August:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/8/10-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43956 Activity:nil
        How to take advantage of a terrorist plot to stay in power for one
        more year.
        \_ Triggered by an ipod? How would that work?  I didn't think ipods
           had any wireless capability.
           \_ Although most cell phone triggers in Iraq are activated by
              calling the phone, you can also rig something up such that the
              trigger will activate when the cell phone alarm goes up.
              trigger will activate when the cell phone alarm goes off.
              Similarly, you can rig anything with an alarm to act as your
              trigger to a real detonator, which is probably attached to a
              9V battery.
        \_ Right. And Israel was really behind 9/11 and the moon landing
           really happened on a Hollywood soundstage.
           \_ Red stater fascist.
           \_ I'm not saying it was orchestrated by those who want to stay
              in power.  I'm saying is that it's being taken advantage of
              politically by those in power.
           \_ You mean they weren't?!?! -proud American
              \_ I am in power.  AND I KICK ASS!!!  --The Man
2006/8/10-14 [Consumer/Camera] UID:43957 Activity:moderate
8/10    Categories and examples of photo fraud.  Best I've seen so far:
        \_ I agree photo manip is bad, but it seems really minor.
           I'll just make up a scale, it seems like the horrific
           bombing of civilians (yes I am well aware Hezbollah
           sticks their operations deliberately in densely packed
           civilian apt buildings), is 5 percent worse in the
           doctored photographs.
           \_ That's not the point.  Regardless of who is right or wrong,
              an organ that is supposed to report as impartial a picture as
              possible is distributing pretty bad misinformation that
              can be misinterpreted as propaganda.  All the "dude, you trust
              the news?" stupidity aside, I expect outfits like Reuters to
              use a minimal amount of good judgment when providing
              news photos.  -John
        \_ I'm not Hezbollah supporter.  I think Israel has the right to
           defend itself.  I think Israel fucked up majorly by not
           making a fuss when Iran/Hezbollah moved all those rockets
           into Lebanon.  I think they fucked up again when they
           wildly overreacted to the kidnapping of the 2 soldiers,
           and showing the world that their amazing military is not
           quite as unbeatable as they have led the world to believe.
        \_ (
           \_ (
                \- do you consider a POSED photograph [like the Iwo Jima
                   Flag one] to be the moral equiv of manipulation if it
                   isnt disclosed that it is posed? i think there is something
                   to be said for asthetic and editorial manipulation ...
                   aesthetic might disqulaify you from winning an award,
                   but i really didnt see the big deal with the photoshopped
                   smoke one [i think the employer has a right to be pissed
                   off because that wasnt disclosed, but i dont think there
                   is much of a "bigger picture" issue, so to speak ... in
                   the case of the smoke one, i dont see what the *public*
                   outrage is about.]. --psb, combat photographer
                   \_ There is a small but important semantic difference.  The
                      Iwo pic is a "hey, great, look at us" shot.  The dead
                      baby ones are "grr, what injustice, get angry!" shots.
                      I'd rather compare the staged pics in effect to the
                      naked running girl or dying republican soldier than the
                      Iwo flag pics.  As to your question about cropping and
                      other cosmetic edits, IMHO it becomes inacceptable when
                      the staging/edit is clearly designed to provoke a
                      certain emotional response in the viewer--at that point
                      it becomes propaganda.  Cosmetic edits just sort of
                      cheapen the aesthetic effect of any picture purporting
                      to convey a "this is authentic" message.  -John
                   \_ The public is rightfully outraged because the public
                      rightfully gets pissed off when fed lies, distortions
                      and propaganda.  It is bad enough when the headlines are
                      misleading, don't match the articles or are just
                      outright lies but pictures are held to a higher standard
                      because there is limited ability to fake things with
                      pictures without photoshop compared to text.  The
                      written word is subject to personal experience,
                      interpretation, various biases intentional and not, and
                      ability to write clearly and concisely.  A picture can
                      be cropped, the brightness or colors can be changed a
                      bit, that's understood.  But the objects and people
                      should be real, not complete fabrications from photoshop
                      or razor and glue.  The written word can be analysed,
                      compared to other sources and past work of the author.
                      The author's history is also subject to debate and
                      analysis.  A picture is a moment in time and often it is
                      the only record of an event with little else to compare
                      against.  When we can't believe our own eyes, what can
                      we believe?  I don't understand how this isn't obvious
                      to you.  I have too much respect for you to
                      automatically assume the negative regarding your
                      position on this.  Can you please elaborate on your
                      thoughts regarding faked photos?
                      \_ Are Ansel Adams' photos "faked" because he
                         extensively modified them (invented a new system
                         to do so) between negative and print?  A photograph
                         can never capture what the photographer was seeing,
                         and we view photographs differently than we view
                         real objects, so the emotional impact is different.
                         I don't think there's anything wrong with seeing
                         a teddy bear in the rubble of a destroyed building
                         and positioning it so it photographs better;
                         the photographer is trying to convey is the feeling
                         the photographer is trying to convey the feeling
                         of being there, not the precise location of a
                         particular teddy bear.  -tom
                         \_ Actually, unless the teddy photographer is taking
                            the photo for its pure artistic value, he shouldn't
                            touch it.  There is a huge difference between Ansel
                            Adams photos and, say, Robert Capa war photos in
                            terms of the message they convey.  With an AA
                            pic, the editing is part of the overall artistic
                             presentation, while a war photo is supposed to
                            show things as they are, period.  Anything more
                            is questionable at best.  -John
                            \_ I acknowledge the difference between Adams
                               and a photojournalist, but I don't think a
                               photojournalist must never touch anything.
                               Again, the purpose of photojournalism is
                               to capture what it was like to be there,
                               not to minutely document a particular event.
                               If composing a photo can improve the
                               journalist's ability to make the photo
                               convey an impression, I don't think it's wrong
                               to do so.  Bringing your own teddy bear would
                               be wrong.  Cloning in more smoke to make it
                               look worse than it was is wrong.  But
                               touching things is not inherently wrong.  -tom
                               \_ The problem is, where do you draw the line?
                                  I'd rather argue that for anything that
                                  purports to be news, no editing is ok. -John
                                  \_ As with any profession, ethics are not
                                     black and white; there isn't a line,
                                     there's a fuzzy zone.  I'd say cloning
                                     in more smoke is unethical, but
                                     repositioning an object is generally
                                     not, unless the repositioning
                                     fundamentally changes the image
                                     you're shooting.  -tom
                                     \_ Ethics are fuzzy?  Photo journalism
                                        in a hotly contested war zone should
                                        not require any special effort to get
                                        it ethically right.  Don't touch
                                        things, don't photoshop pics, don't
                                        avoid taking certain photos because
                                        they'd make 'your' side look bad.
                                        Point camera, shoot, send photos to
                                        editor to decide which to use.  It
                                        takes a lot more effort to screw up
                                        war photos than just to take ethically
                                        clean shots.  I've got no problem
                                        cropping extraneous items, shrinking
                                        or enlarging the entire photo to fit
                                        on a page, etc.  But any 3rd grader
                                        can figure out that using photoshop
                                        to fundamentally alter a photo is not
                                        \_ uh, yes, which is why I said using
                                           photoshop to fundamentally alter
                                           a photo is not ethical.  -tom
                                           \- why do some of you keep on about
                                              photoshop? it seems clear to me
                                              cropping can far more
                                              dramatically alter the interp
                                              of a picture than "adding smoke"
                                              might. hey, in fact photo
                                              composition is basically
                                              cropping ... so again there
                                              are the issue between the
                                              photgrapher and whomever
                                              he has a "contract" with ...
                                              whether that is an media org,
                                              a teacher, a contest, a
                                              prvate indiv ... in that case
                                              narrow technical questions,
                                              but for photgraphers who have
                                              an "audience" rather than a
                                              partner, the class of ethical
                                              Qs are different ... and to
                                              talk about these, i think you
                                              need to focus on abstract
                                              issue like "intention" ...
                                              rather than techniques. when
                                              somebody decieives with
                                              statistics, we dont "focus on"
                                              what statisitical techniques
                                              the mislead us with [e.g. small
                                              sample size, vs biased sample,
                                              or rejecting/smoothing outliers]
                                              when we are having a moral
                                              rather technical criticism.
                                              here is an interesting example
                                              of an "cropping matters" ...
                                              a photjournalist took a number
                                              of friendly looking russian boys
                                              in the age 10-15 range. there
                                              were also a couple of pix of
                                              similarly aged nice looking
                                              russian girls ... the natural
                                              reaction was "oh there is the
                                              next generation of kids coming
                                              up in hard time in russia" ...
                                              it turned out the kids were all
                                              at a children's prison and were
                                              murderer and rapists ... and the
                                              girls were accessories to their
                                              boyfriends. now if he had passed
                                              them off as "nice kids" it seems
                                              that would have been kinda leem.
                                              but i can understand cropping
                                              out the sign, so you initial
                                              reaction is "what nice kids"
                                              but when you read the caption,
                                              or go hear the talk, you go
                                              "holy shit ... dont judge a
                                              book by its cover". the reaction
                                              is massively different. there
                                              are lots of other example i can
                                              give you were this "mental
                                              revision" based on what is in/
                                              not in the pix makes a far
                                              stronger impression than a more
                                              "clinical photographic approach".
                                              it's like "irony" is not lying.
                                              even though you may be saying
                                              the opposite of the truth. --psb
                                              \_ Here is what I said above
                                                 about cropping, "I've got no
                                                 problem cropping extraneous
                                                 items, shrinking or enlarging
                                                 the entire photo to fit on a
                                                 page, etc."  So in the case of
                                                 your Russian photo, dropping
                                                 the sign through cropping is
                                                 just as bad as PS'ing it out
                                                 as it is an important part of
                                                 who the kids are.  If they
                                                 cropped out some random tree
                                                 that would be ok.  Again:
                                                 cropping extraneous items is
                                                 ok, cropping something that
                                                 is meaningful is not, and
                                                 PS'ing more than to change
                                                 the entire photo size for
                                                 print or similar mechanical
                                                 changes required for technical
                                                 reasons is *never* ok for a
                                                 journalism photo.  Do whatever
                                                 you'd like with art, personal
                                                 stuff, entertainment or just
                                                 about anything else that isn't
                                                 expected to be absolutely
                                                 true in all senses of true.
                                                 And while we're here, no I'm
                                                 not ok with moving a teddy
                                                 bear in a war zone either.
                                                 That's called staging and is
                                                 dishonest.  This stuff just
                                                 isn't that hard to figure out.
                                                 \_ It's not called staging,
                                                    it's called photography.
                                                      \- i think posing the
                                                         teddybear is cheep
                                                         because without
                                                         disclosure you assume
                                                         the photographer
                                                         "found it" and it is
                                                         definitely harder
                                                         to "find" a shot
                                                         than to produce one...
                                                         it undermines the
                                                         notion of "THE DECI-
                                                         SIVE MOMENT" [ref:
                                                         Henri Cartier Breson,
                                                         google for some of
                                                         his equisitely timed
                                                         shots ... wouldnt you
                                                         feel ripped off if
                                                         they were staged?]
                                                         "i could camp on this
                                                         mountain 3 more days
                                                         until the moon is
                                                         full and the weather
                                                         is fine or i can
                                                         photoshop it in" ...
                                                         i think that's pretty
                                                         comparable to moving
                                                         the teddy bear or
                                                         getting the little
                                                         third world kid to
                                                         assume the cute pose
                                                         via an interpreter and
                                                         a bribe ... because
                                                         usually this isnt
                                                         disclosed and the
                                                         implication is it is
                                                         spontaneous. [of
                                                         course in the case
                                                         of a portrait, it is
                                                         closer to anything
                                                         goes]. however, again
                                                         it's hard to draw
                                                         bright lines ... if
                                                         general macaurthur
                                                         waited for the
                                                         photgrapher to get
                                                         set up before he
                                                         waded ashore, is that
                                                         "staging" what if
                                                         the general did it
                                                         of his own volition
                                                         instead of being
                                                         "directed" etc.
                                                         a team i do some
                                                         trekking and climbing
                                                         with has a lot of
                                                         photgraphers and i
                                                         think they are almost
                                                         all pretty sleazy
                                                         about posing things
                                                         or crossing lines
                                                         [we were thrown out
                                                         of a buddhist mon-
                                                         estary once], so i'm
                                                         kinda cynical about
                                                         what a lot of photo-
                                                         graphers will do.--psb
                                                         graphers will do.
                                                         unposed stuff is really
                                                         really hard to get
                                                         right ... like this
                                                         is an ok picture, but
                                                         it could have been way
                                                         better if it was
                                                         it's the stuff HCB
                                                         did without posing
                                                         [or shooting on
                                                         continuous] that makes
                                                         him so amazing.
                                                         \_ Moving the teddy
                                                            bear is a little
                                                            cheesy, I'll
                                                            agree, but it's
                                                            not far from
                                                            fairly typical
                                                            setup.  What if
                                                            he didn't move
                                                            the teddy, but
                                                            there were a piece
                                                            of wood sticking up
                                                            blocking a clean
                                                            shot in the
                                                            direction the
                                                            photographer wanted
                                                            to frame it, I
                                                            think most photogs
                                                            would have little
                                                            problem moving the
                                                            stick.  The key
                                                            point is that
                                                            photography is
                                                            all about choosing
                                                            a perspective and
                                                            trying to make
                                                            an emotional
                                                            impact; anyone who
                                                            says "just point
                                                            camera, shoot, and
                                                            send photos to the
                                                            editor" knows
                                                            nothing about
                                                            photography.  -tom
                                                            \- the teddy bear
                                                               and mickey mouse
                                                               pictures are just
                                                               so cloying ... i
                                                               just assume they
                                                               are staged. the
                                                               only question i
                                                               have is "did the
                                                               bring it along
                                                               like a prop".
                                                               as a premed-
                                                               itated prop?
                                                               i wouldnt be
                                                               surprised. maybe
                                                               if i get a chance
                                                               i'll put up
                                                               some pix and
                                                               people can try
                                                               and guess which
                                                               are posed. it's
                                                               REALLY interest-
                                                               ing to get the
                                                               backstory to
                                                               some pix [like
                                                               the russian
                                                               kids one].
                                \- Note: there is a difference between
                                   news-photo journalism and what you might
                                   call the photo essay or feature ... that's
                                   not so much covering an event but doing more
                                   of an indepth thing. so it isnt at all
                                   intending to be neutral any more than
                                   painters portrait is suppose to tend
                                   to a photograph ... those are artistic
                                   works but can have poltical and editorial
                                   content. american examples include that
                                   DLANGE person or EUGENE SMITH [that guy
                                   was crazy], but also famous studies like
                                   WERNER BISHOF in south american and
                                   GEORGE RODGER "Humanity and Inhumanity".
                                   A somewhat remote aqaiantance is a
                                   professional photog who does both of these
                                   and he was telling me for the feature
                                   works they very carefull pick a printer
                                   [his developer summonned him to paris for
                                   an interview to decide whether he'd do
                                   the printing for the book], so as you might
                                   imagine, the manipulation was well beyond
                                   some marginal tweaks but was a parnership
                                   like a team writing a score and lyrics ...
                                   we dont "blame" mozart for not writing the
                                   words to marriage of figaro.
                                   the point is "altering a photograph"
                                   isnt a sin. if there is a sin, it is
                                   something downstream ... either misleading
                                   the viewer about something outside the
                                   photograph [faking a mass grave ...
                                   probably the worst offense], misleading
                                   the viewer about something about the
                                   photograph [i was there when the rainbow
                                   it the potala palace with the full moon
                                   in back ... when you photshopped in the
                                   moon], or it can simply be cheating in a
                                   contest ... e.g. you are entering a
                                   non-digital contest and you photoshop
                                   in a moon then reprint it to slide or
                                   you change a boring black umbrealla to
                                   a brilliant red one etc. so again, in
                                   the photshopped smoke case, i can understand
                                   why AP or reuters was pissed ... his offense
                                   was "lying" or "cheating". but something
                                   like the "darken OJ on the mag cover to
                                   make him seem evil" is a different
                                   matter and the public does have a bigger
                                   stake in that one ... well except for
                                   the fact that OJ is evil. i think he's
                                   still looking for the racist photoshopper.

                   \_ Iwo Jima wasn't staged
                      \- hmm, fair point. maybe it is better to say: the
                         actual narrative and the legend have diverged.
                         [like it being the second flag raising etc] ...
                         i guess this gets into a discussion about what
                         staged means. like the picture of macarthur
                         disembarking ... is there a difference between
                         his being told which way to walk, or just waiting
                         for the photographer to get in position or reenacting
                         it 3-4 times to get the best pix etc. the capa
                         death of a soldier also has controversy attached
                         to it. but these are the interesting questions ...
                         more than was the smoke shape changed or a moon
                         photoshopped in [again, w.r.t to the editorial
                         pale, not the aesthetic]. is cropping cheating?
                         how about dodge-n-burn? ... or those analog techniqies
                         are ok?
        \_ Why is everyone so up in arms about photo fraud?  People have
           been doing this with pornographically doctored photos of
           celebrities and models since the inception of the internet, and
           it's not a big deal.  -Paris Hilton
           \_ How is that celibacy thing going? 1 week and counting ...
              \- so are people OUTRAGED by interviews that are rehearsed?
                 [e.g. where the questions are asked ahead of time, the
                 person has time to think of the answers, and then then it
                 is filmed]. BTW, there is a DOCUMETNARY called WAR PHTOGRAPHER
                 about JAMES NACHTWEY, who i think is the best photojouranlist
                 in the world now ... a lot of photjournalists also hold in
                 in awe. i thought i was worth seeing. his pix are
                 unforgettable. http://
2006/8/10-14 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43958 Activity:nil
8/10    Martinez murder, the weirdest part is the todo list
        \_ Nicole Brown Simpson's "real killers" strike again. -Mark Fuhrman
2006/8/10-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:43959 Activity:nil
8/10    \_ I'm not Hezbollah supporter.  I think Israel has the right to
           defend itself.  I think Israel fucked up majorly by not
           making a fuss when Iran/Hezbollah moved all those rockets
           into Lebanon.  I think they fucked up again when they
           wildly overreacted to the kidnapping of the 2 soldiers,
           and showing the world that their amazing military is not
           quite as unbeatable as they have led the world to believe.
           \_ Um, you mean when Hizbullah invaded their country, killed 8
              soldiers and kidnapped 2?  And the fact that Hizbullah has been
              shooting rockets at Israel for years?  For your convenience, I've
              created a new thread for your unrelated rant.
              \_ Also, the Israeli military is operating with restraint.
                 They really aren't 'at war' with Lebanon. It's like
                 saying that the US military is weak because we cannot
                 defeat insurgents in Iraq. Of course we could, if we
                 didn't care about the consequences.
                 \_ Amusing letter to the editor in the cron today, mentioning
                    how israel uses bomb shelters to protect their civilians,
                    while hezbolla uses its civilians to protect their rocket
                    launchers.  I find it disturbing that they ("hezbollah")
                    consider this a 'reasonable' tactic to use,
                    and more so that it is proving effective at all. This
                    only speaks for even more pain to the 'civilians' in
                    future wars.
        \_ I find it amusing that "defend yourself" now includes invading
           other countries, bombing their civilians, capturing their heads
           of state, and holding captives without trial or charges for
           years.  AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!!!  -T.E.A.M. America World Police
        \_ This is so fucked up beyond comprehension.  The Japanese
           excuse for invading China to look for 2 missing soldiers
           pales in comparison. I am just utterly appalled by the "one
           Israeli is more important than 100 Lebanon" attitude.
           Basically, "We will kill ten thousand Lebanons if necessary
           to get our 2 soldiers back!" All while using weapons we
           supply that are coming out of my tax dollar! And you people
           wonder why 911 happens. With the way the Bush Regime is
           solving "problems" around the world, you can be sure that
           an attack like 911 is GUARANTEED to happen again. More
           people in the world hate the US now than ever before. I
           hope this is the "safety" you Bush supports wanted. You can
           quote me, on this day, in the Berkeley MOTD, that an attack
           like 911 will likely happen within 5 years, and almost 100%
           certain will happen within 10 years.
           \_ Haha. The point is the Lebanese gov't isn't providing
              security. It's not really about the 2 soldiers themselves.
              By the way , residents of Lebanon aren't called "Lebanons".
           \_ So what was the reason for all the other terrorist acts going
              back before Bush?  What did Clinton to that forced them to
              attack the WTC the first time?  What did Israel do that forced
              the cross-border killing of 6? soldiers and the capture of 2
              others?  Israel has been at peace with Lebanon for 6 years.
              Anyway, you're missing the big picture.  These people aren't
              pissed off about some land or historical event.  They want all
              the land from the west bank of the Jordan River to the sea
              (hint: that's where Israel is) and they want all the land that
              was ever Muslim controlled, such as most of Spain.  And then
              they want the rest of the planet as well.  They make no bones
              about the fact that their ultimate goal is sharia law across
              the entire globe.  You can't compromise with people who want you
              dead and use their own civilians as PR shields.  Israel's real
              mistake was using air power trying to take out missiles in some
              sort of limited war instead of using the army and cleaning out
              the whole country in a dirtier but more complete war.  Cease
              fire just means Hezbollah will have time to rearm and do it
              again in 3-5 years with better weapons.  At what point is it
              morally acceptable to drain the swamp and kill Hezbollah?  For
              you, I suspect never.   Tell me I'm wrong.
              \_ "These people" used to number in the single digit thousands.
                 Due to your stupidity, you have made millions of them.
                 Tell me I'm wrong.
                 \_ If you actually responded to anything I said I'd reply.
2006/8/10-14 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:43960 Activity:nil
8/10    Boycott BP gas stations!  BP has shown themselves to be a bad
        company.  They spilled 200k barrels of oil on Alaska earlier this
        year, and now we discover they've allowed the Alaska pipeline to
        corrode to the point where it must be shut down, cutting 8%
        of production nationwide and helping spike gasoline prices.
        Meanwhile their profits are up 22%.
        I think they deserve a boycott.  --PeterM
        \_ Have you ever spent one dollar at an Exxon since the spill?  If so,
           you lack any credibility.  On the scale of evil, it's not clear
           that BP is willfully harming people's lives, while Exxon still is(
           by continuing to spend vast sums on legal fees to fight paying
           what they owe to fishermen).  As pointed out below, BP is at least
           making a show of working on developing alternative forms of
           energy production, while Exxon is busy fuding smokescreen campaigns
           to distort the truth about global climate change.  I think a boycott
           is way to severe for BP's mistakes, but i think Exxon, as a company,
           deserves to die, and its executives deserve to be stripped of their
           wealth and sent to a work camp for the rest of their lives.
        \_ Boycotts are useless unless you inform the 47% of the Americans
           who don't use the internet, drive SUVs, and voted for Bush.
           \_ If the other 53% pay attention we can kill their 22% profit
              increase.  That's billions.  It'll do some good.  Further,
              it'll put other oil companies on notice.
        \_ so we boycott them, they don't sell that oil for  a while, the
           price of oil goes up (due to either to the increased scarcity
           or the fact taht it just goes up over time anyway), they sell the
           oil later date at higher prices.  Increased Profit! I dont see the
           punishment here.
           \_ Better buy it all now, then.  -John
        \_ Is BP still a British company?
           \_ Be proud.  Buy American.  -proud American
        \_ On the other hand, their actions will increase the price of oil,
           spurring demand for and investment in alternative fuels.
           Coincidentally (I hope), BP is one of the larger companies working
           on alternative energy sources (e.g. solar).  Why screw the pooch?
        \_ The number of consumers who care about issues like this is dwarfed
           by the number of consumers who care more about price and
        \_ U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!  -T.E.A.M. America WOrld Police
2006/8/10-14 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:43961 Activity:nil
8/10    Perforce question.  When submitting files, is there a way to tell
        Perforce to verify that the files are actually different before
        allowing them to be submitted?  ClearCase does this automatically.
        \_ I right-click my pending changelist and select "Revert if unchanged"
           Everything that remains has diffs.  This also makes it easy to
           to catch myself before I submit a modification I didn't intend.
           \_ Cool!  Thanks!
           \_ Cool!  Thanks!  -- OP
           \_ This is 'p4 revert -a' from the command line. -gm
              \_ Even better.  Thanks.  --- OP
2006/8/10-14 [Uncategorized] UID:43962 Activity:nil
8/10    When I hear neo-cons talk about the link between Iraq and
        terrorists, I feel like I'm listening to a conversation like this: (dilbert)
2006/8/10-14 [Consumer/Camera] UID:43963 Activity:nil
8/10    Nikon announces D80.
        \- $1000 for a d70 with 10mp and SD instead of CF. is that a
           fair summary? anything qualitatively better aside from
           more pixels ... i'd think for most people d70 would be
           enough pixels ... and without good quality lenses, i dunno
           if you really get a lot more "digital zoom" potential.
           i suppose the only thing i am really interested in is fullframe.
           i think "feature" like "it is smaller than a d70" is actally
           not good. dont like small. there are some interface disagreements
           i have with the d70. if those are fixed, that would be a win.
           \_ Not only that, the 1/200sec sync speed is slower than the
              1/500sec of the N70s and the N50.  -- OP
              1/500sec of the D70s and the D50.  -- OP
              \_ I imagine not having to move the curtains so fast
                 helps with long-term reliability.  It's certainly not
                 as efficient as singular flash, but there's always
                 the high-speed-sync (continuous high-speed pulses
                 covering the entire time shutter is (partially)
                 open).  I don't know about Nikon, but Canon flashes
                 can do high-speed-sync.
                 \_ Nikon flashes have high-speed-sync too, but it doesn't help
                    if the reason you want high shutter sync speed is to
                    overpower the ambient light (e.g. the sun).
              \_ And slower than the 1/250s of the all-mechanical FM2n too.
              \_ but it has iso 100 (d70 only supports >= iso200 ) which
                 compensates for the slower sync speed. and a better
                 focusing system (same as that of the d200).
                 \_ It also has a better viewfinder. More pixels with no
                    drawback other than file size is a win too. 6 vs. 10
                    is noticeable. You could make larger prints. Not that
                    I'd necessarily run out and buy this if I had a D70.
                    Actually Sony's version seems better with anti-dust
                    and CCD antishake for similar dough.
                    \- one thing i really do miss in the "second rate"
                       nikons [i still mean good camera ... N90, D70 etc,
                       just not F4, F5, D1 etc] is the view finder area
                       ratio is signifcantly lower in my opinion ... and
                       i think it affects composion in tight cases.
                       there still seems something just not right with
                       digital. for example i shot some associates with
                       N90+TMax and loved a large fraction of the pix,
                       people asked for prints, they printed them out and
                       gave them as presents. I then shot 5 times as many
                       pix in similar environment [zeitgeist beer garden
                       etc] with D1x, D70 and though most of the pix came
                       out ass. i'm wondering is it is still some micro
                       lag in the digital pipeline that separate the great
                       facial expression and the "half open mouth" or "head
                       at slightly the wrong angle" etc look. i know some
                       other people shoot perfectly good pix with digitals
                       by i cant figure out exactly what i'm doing wrong.
                       this is separate from my opinion that a lot of digital
                       pix look too sharp to the point of being clinical
                       for me.
                 \_ How does a lower ISO compensate for a slower sync speed?
                    Are you sure about that?
2006/8/10-14 [Reference/BayArea] UID:43964 Activity:kinda low
8/10    I have a friend who is a male CS grad student looking for a sublet
        from 08/17-09/14 in Berkeley, Oakland, or San Francisco.  Let me
        know if you know of anything.  Thanks.  --srgordon
        \_ Try this new, funky site called --computer genius
           \_ cthis person may be looking on CL ... this is
           \_ This person may be looking on CL ... this is
              quite reasonable to ask on sloda. You have been
              classified as: sub-genius
              \_ Here is your pipe. Hail, Bob!
                 \_ Huh huh.  He said "pipe."  Huh huh.  -beavis
2006/8/10-14 [Uncategorized] UID:43965 Activity:nil
8/10    What is a good wiki engine to use for internal corporate use? I played
        with mediawiki but the access controls are horrid. Tikiwiki seems nice
        but maybe a bit heavy duty. Midgard wouldn't even compile...
        \_ All your base are belong to Plone.
        \_ Have you looked at dokuwiki?  I'm quite fond of it. -dans
        \_ The one built into Trac isn't bad, but you may not care for all of
           the SVN browser/ticket system integration.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:August:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>