Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:July:31 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/7/31-8/2 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:43839 Activity:nil
7/30    So again I ask: does anyone know why gmail is flagging email
        from csua as spam?
        \_ Probably too many CSUA morons forwarding mail to gmail and
           clicking on the "Spam" button.
          \_ Someone previously said that csua was blacklisted somewhere.
             If this were the case, woudln't mail from csua be filtered
             as spam on yahoo and elsewhere?  Or is it just that gmail
             has tougher spam filtering?
             \_ It might very well happen with other mail services.  I
                don't happen to know.
        \_ Isn't gmail still in beta?  File a complaint with google.  Don't
           use a beta service for anything you care about.
           \_ Uh, I can't choose what mail services other people use.  I
              don't personally use gmail.
        \_ Gmail sucks.  Stick with Hotmail. -proud American
2006/7/31-8/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:43840 Activity:nil
7/30    This is why US supports Israeli's action, DRAWING IRAN INTO THE
        CONFLICT.   USA is desperately want to attack Iran but couldn't find
        a legit excuse.  This will do:
        \_ The US doesn't need excuses to exert power.  Super powers by their
           very nature answer to no one.
2006/7/31-8/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:43841 Activity:high
7/30    Hey, Israelis, supporters of Israel, this should make you proud:
        (picture of dead terrorist from NY Times, ranging from 9 month old
        to 95 years old)
        For those who don't remember, "accident" of similiar scale happened
        10 years ago in the same town,  Qana, in a UN refugee compound, when
        Israelis was using anti-personnel shell (you know, those kind that
        explode in the air for maximum damage) attacking the UN compound.
        And you said this kind of attack has a moral high ground compare with
        sucide bomber in a city bus?
        \_ Oopsie!  A very inconvenient 8 hours between the attack and the
           building falling apart.  Stop storing explosives in homes and homes
           will stop being attacked.  And hey, how about returning the
           soldiers, disarming Hezbollah, and stop firing hundreds of rockets
           every day at random into civilian areas in Israel and terrorist
           sites in Lebanon will stop being attacked.  You conveniently forget
           that this border has been peaceful for 6 years until Hezbollah, who
           was supposed to have disarmed, built up a huge weapons stockpile
           under UN supervision.  Ignoring context and history is a key
           elemental to propaganda like yours.
           \_ all these 36 kids died in Qana deserve their fate because
              Hezbollah kidnapped two soldiers?  How many Hezbollah soldiers
              are being tortured by IDF everyday?
              \_ Go look up "human shields", troll.
           \_ peace might of still be there if Israel don't overreact.
              400+ civilian died for the 2 soldiers?  you are giving Arabs
              excuse to toss nuclear bomb at Israel in the future.
              \_ Ha, you mean the excuses they've been using for the last
                 50 years won't do?  The surrounding countries have never
                 needed an excuse to kill Jews.
              \_ Hezbollah exists only to attack and destroy Israel.  They
                 don't need an excuse.  What gave you the idea they had any
                 other reason for existing or anything short of the complete
                 destruction of Israel would get them to stop attacking?
        \_ Please give me the # dead from bus / pizza joint bombs vs.
           a military action gone awry. One is a targeted attack on civilians
           the other might have gone astray. It's like second-guessing
           a police shooting. 3 secs to decide, 30 years for everyone else
           to pass judgement. Let's see Hezbollahs' "restraint" duing
           a unilateral cease-fire.
           \_ Israel has killed 20x civllians in Lebanon in the current
              conflict as Hizbolla has killed via rocket attacks into
              \_ When terrorists stop using their own people as human shields
                 and attacking sovereign states across borders civilian deaths
                 will stop on all sides.
           \_ that is my point. For some reason, Israeli's "targeted" strike
              has killed more innocent people than Hezbollah and Hamas and
              Islamic Jihad combined.
              \_ This is a function of tools at their disposal, rather
                 than intention.  But a state is reasonably held to a higher
                 standards.  Intention cound but it isn't everything.
                 And right and wrong isnt zero sum.  Thant's why this is
                 complicated.  I actually think some of what is currently
                 going on is "more excusable" than some of their past
                 policies such as the "2x4" policy or bulldozing homes
                 \_ I agree with you, function of tools.  This is why Arabs
                    are desperately want a nuclear bomb and eager to react
                    disproportionaly.  I am not justifying Hezbollah's action,
                    I am just want to point out that when you see Hezbollah
                    fighters slip into a refugee compound and decided to use
                    anti-personnel shell, I wouldn't consider that "doing
                    everything they can to prevent civilian casualty."
                    From most of non pro-Israel point of view, Israel has
                    lost its moral high-ground a long time ago; those who
                    set off bombs in buses are no differ than those IDF shell
                    raining on fleeing convoys.
                    \_ For most of "non pro-Israel point of view" Israel lost
                       its moral high-ground in 1948, 1967 and 1973.  How dare
                       they defend themselves?  It is outrageous!  Here's
                       something to consider: If all of Israel's neighbors
                       were completely disarmed what would Israel do to them?
                       If Israel was completely disarmed what would her
                       neighbors do to Israel?  If Israel was safe from attack,
                       there would be peace and trade.  If Israel was disarmed
                       there would be war and genocide.  Think about that for
                       a while.
                       \_ When Japan invade China in 1930's, their excuse was
                          to defend itself.
                          \_ Japan's PR has nothing to do with Israel's
                             reality.  Better luck next time.  You're *really*
                             stretching it now.  Why don't you just go all the
                             way and compare them to the Nazis?  You're only
                             a small step away.  Go for it!
2006/7/31-8/2 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:43842 Activity:nil
7/31    Customers pony up for renewable energy:
        \_ We've had this for some time in .ch -- you have several
           different choices on your power bill (mainly hydroelectric,
           nuclear, a few others, or various combinations.)  People seem
           to be pretty willing to shell out extra bucks for "green" power,
           as the price difference isn't all that much.  -John
           \_ We had this in California, too.  It was called "deregulation"
              But then Enron fucked the whole thing up for everyone.
              \_ Yup.  I used to buy electricity from CommonWealth Electric
                 several years ago, whose rate was actually 10% lower than
                 PG&E.  Later I moved, and CommonWealth couldn't take new
                 accounts anymore.  So I had to go back to PG&E.
                 \_ You couldn't transfer your account?  What was the reason
                    for not taking new customers?
        \_ I drive a big red SUV and run air conditioning at home even
           when I'm sleeping or at work.  You liberal wackos don't know
           what you're missing. -proud American
2006/7/31-8/2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:43843 Activity:nil
        'Then-U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright visited a mass game in
        Pyongyang in 2000, where a mosaic displayed an animated missile flying
        into the sky.  "This will be our last missile," Kim Jong Il reportedly
        told Albright.  The North this month test-fired seven missiles ......
        in violation of a self-imposed moratorium on long-range launches.'
        \_ Albright?  Of course she was lied to and ate it up.  Any 6 year old
           could sell her a bridge.
           \_ Right... It was Albright's fault...  It couldn't be that the
              current admin cut off the ongoing diplomacy we had with N.K.,
              then called them a point on the dreaded Axis of Evil.  Nope.
              Couldn't be.
              \_ I didn't say anything was her fault.  I said Albright is a
                 clown.  Go read the transcript for her confirmation hearings.
                 She's scary and incompetent.
              \_ The world was such a paradise before GWB took office.
                 I saw it in Fahrenheit 911. Kids were flying kites and
                 eating ice cream cones in Iraq.
                 \_ So you deny things regarding N.K. are more fucked up now
                    than 6 years ago?  And since you want to make a detour
                    through Iraq...  How's that freedom marching these days?
                    \_ I denied nothing. I just responded to one smarmy,
                       assinine response with another... How'd that 2004
                       election go?
                 \_ Actually, the part about flying kites and eating ice cream
                    cones was accurate.
                    \_ And playing in rivers of chocolate.  Don't forget
                       that.  I'm sure Suni kids from Saddam's tribe were
                       doing quite well.  If you were a Kurd or a southern
                       Shiite you were lucky to get clean water or
        \_ Madeleine was a hot dame in her youth. -proud American
2006/7/31-8/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:43844 Activity:moderate
7/31    Can you guys please take the Israel/Hezbollah/whatever screaming match
        to Sproul Plaza?  It was entertaining, but you're really not
        convincing each other.  -John
        \_ you are saying NOW because for the first time you actually feel
           something IDF has done which is not right?
           \_ _Huh_?  No, I'm saying the discussion is old, pointless, and
              a waste of precious, intellectual MOTD space.  -John
                \_ Intellectual MOTD space? When did we get that installed?
                   \_ And how do I get my quota increased? -gm
        \_ Agreed. I'm all for trading actual information, but this has
           devolved into less signal than noise. --erikred
           \_ The "actual information" is the subject of debate.
              \_ Let me see if I can sum this up: Hezbollah's launching
                 rockets into Israel and abducted two Israeli soldiers;
                 Israel is bombing southern Lebanon and Beirut and has blown
                 up the airport and the road out of Lebanon into Syria as
                 well as some UN observers. Israel is claiming that it has
                 the right to defend itself, which no reasonable human beings
                 are debating, although everyone who is not Israel is
                                                \_ Correct, but without taking
                        a close look at who "everyone" is" you miss an
                        important point: "everyone" would be perfectly happy
                        if Israel was wiped out, so just how valid is the
                        opinion of "everyone"?  Also, I suspect "everyone"
                        would have a very different view if it was "everyone's"
                        country under attack from Hezbollah instead of Israel.
                        In fact, "everyone" deals quite harshly with their own
                        local terrorist groups but has a remarkable different
                        take on Israel's problems.  See how hard it is to
                        provide a list of facts?  The facts without context are
                        useless and easily manipulated.  Without context and a
                        full array of facts the events quickly disolve into
                        propaganda and PR and moral equivalency.
                        \_ "everyone" is a classic weasel word.  You took
                           way more space than was necessary to say that.
                           Check out the wikipedia (I know, I know) definition:
                           \_ I was also pointing out the hypocritical nature
                              of those in the "everyone" category.  Their
                              opinions are thus invalid in a discussion based
                              on morals and ethics.  If you want to discuss
                              things in terms of pure might-makes-right then
                              yes, "everyone" can punish Israel quite harshly
                              economically and in other ways for engaging in
                              more self-defense than "they" deem proper for a
                              Jewish state.
                 suggesting that the response has been somewhat over-
                 enthusiastic. Everyone apart from Israel is calling for a
                 cease-fire. Israel has declared a moratorium on the bombing
                 except on sites where missiles are about to be launched.
                 The two hostages have not yet been returned. This appears to
                 be the actual information. The part about whose fault this
                 all is and who's more evil than who seems to be the part
                 that's being shouted about. Did I miss anything? --erikred
                 \_ yes.  you need to be a bit more objective by not
                    leave out important facts, such as the number of Israelli
                    civilian / military personnel killed, and the number of
                    Lebanonese civilian / Hezbollah killed.  You are implying
                    the casualties are on both sides, but in reality it's more
                    lop-sided.  Also, you may also want to includes all the
                    IFRC convoys and fleeing trucks being bombed as well.
                    \_ No, I think you need to be more objective -- the things
                       you're suggesting are clearly subject to dispute and
                       therefore not suitable as 'facts' at this time.  Nice
                       thread hijack attempt, though.
                       \_ The huge number of Lebanonese civilians are killed
                          by IDF, that is fact (huge compare with number of
                          Israeli citizens died of Hezbollah attack).  IFRC
                          convoys are being bombed by IDF, fleeing trucks are
                          being bombed by IDF.  These are all facts.  Note
                          that I didn't mention anything about why IDF did
                          so.  *THAT* is a subjective stuff.  You are
                          being Jewish first, fact seconds, and trying to
                          leave out any facts that you deemed unfavorable to
                          Israeli cause.
                 \_ stop confusing me facts!!
                 \_ More actual information: Hezbollah's rockets are killing
                    civilians in Israel.  Israel's bombs are killing civilians
                    in Lebanon.  The part about whether the civilians on this
                    side or that side are actually "innocent" civilians are
                    probably being shouted about also.
                    \_ again, this implies equal number of civilians are killed
                       on both side.  While actual number may be in disbute,
                        it's only fair to point out the lopside-ness of the
        \_ How is it any different than any other heated topic on the motd?
           Let's not talk about politics, climate change, or anything else
           that might get someone's knickers in a bunch.  No one is forcing
           anyone here to read anything.
           \_ It's not -- but there's nothing wrong with a reasonably polite
              request to change the subject since it's clear that neither
              side is going to listen to the other.
              \_ What are the odds anyone is going to stop discussing the
                 topic because the OP is no longer entertained by it?  If the
                 OP no longer cares to follow the threads related to an on-
                 going world event, the OP is welcome to skip them.  I skip
                 plenty of threads of no interest to me without asking the
                 participants to stop.  Tipping etiquette was of no interest
                 to me at all and went on for several screens over several
                 days.  No one asked them to stop, nor deleted the thread
                 until it was dead.
                 \_ Tipping Etiquette....right.  Whatever you say.
                    \_ It went on for almost a week and spanned several
                       screens and was boring as dry paint but I didn't
                       whine about it.  You couldn't have missed it.  Maybe
                       you found it fun and exciting and intellectually
                 \_ It was a long discussion, as opposed to a series of
                    constantly rehashed points that don't serve to
                    convince anyone of anything, least of all the
                    participants.  -John
                    \_ No, it was pretty much the same rehashed tipping
                       discussion as the previous times with at least one
                       of the same participants, no change in attitude, no
                       new useful information and no one convincing anyone
                       of anything.  Easily summarised as, "The elitist
                       entertain-me crowd vs. the proletariat".  Class
                       warfare: yawn.
                       \_ Actually, you're wrong, but since you're being
                          an obtuse idiot, I won't bother your tiny brain
                          with the details.  -John
        \_ shrug. I just press space bar and skip it if it's not interesting.
2006/7/31-8/2 [Uncategorized] UID:43845 Activity:nil
7/31    I like Dr. Z, he's a much more likeable character than
        Taylor Hicks. In fact I hate Taylor Hicks' commercials
        so much that I'll never buy a Ford aagain.
        \_ What the fuck are you talking about and why should we care?
        \_ Dr. Z was one of Sports Illustrated's best NFL writers and
           always will be. -proud American
2006/7/31-8/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:43846 Activity:nil
7/31    Another PR victory for Hezbollah:
        \_ nut
2006/7/31-8/2 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/Domains] UID:43847 Activity:nil
7/31    Conroe ETA at various retailers:
        Fry's: "A few weeks"
        Atacom (Fremont): "Maybe next week"
        Central Computer: "This week"
        Newegg: Rumors say 8/7
        \_ In general the big date is Aug 7.  I would check
           on or around that date.  Intel's official press release said that
           only X6800 systems would be avail July 27.  All other systems
           follow "first week of August", with implied availability of at
           least OEM CPUs around then ...
2006/7/31-8/2 [Reference/Religion] UID:43848 Activity:nil
7/31    Kentucky museum uses Bible to tell Earth's natural history
        \_ The last two sentences are awesome.
           \_ "Fishy fishy fishy.... FISH!"
                         Ahh, childhood memories reborn on YouTube --michener
        \_ You may enjoy this:  -John
        \_ Miss Kentucky is one hot Miss USA. -proud American
2006/7/31-8/2 [Uncategorized] UID:43849 Activity:nil
7/31 (
        The Arab world's 9/11
        "They were all covered with the dust, and they died" ...
        "These children, they are going to heaven," she said. "The people
        who did this massacre are going to hell."
        Fragment found in the rubble:
        "For use on MK-84 Guided Bomb BSU-37-B"
        \_ Piss-poor troll.
           \_ good pictures though
                \_ Even better photos at
                \_ Even better photos at -proud American
2006/7/31-8/2 [Computer/Blog, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:43850 Activity:nil
7/31    flickr only lets me create 3 sets before charging. I don't use
        Blogspot because the site is pretty annoying. What other
        sites are good?
           \_ If you install Picasa, this is clearly the easiest thing I've
              ever seen. The difference is like AOL mail and gmail, where
              flickr and blogspot are as complicated and unintuitive as
              AOL mail and Picasa is as easy to use and understand as
              gmail. Although this is only a beta site, it clearly has
              all the Google signatures on it.
           \_ Windows-only can bite me.  -tom
              \_ It can be web-only accessible just like any other web sites
                 although you'll lose some advanced features. For example if
                 you use Picasa it'll automatically resize pictures for you
                 before it uploads to the web sites. Most pictures today are
                 taken using 4-7MP and take a long time to do HTTP upload
                 raw. It took me 6 hours to teach my grandma to use flickr
                 (they use lame terminologies like sets, and organizing and
                 other features are really complicated). But it only took her
                 30 min to learn Picasaweb.
                    \_ They need an OS X version to replace that POS iPhoto.
                        Plus there's F-Spot ( which is
                        totally open-source if you still like flickr. F-Spot can
                        also export webpages so that the below suggestion
                        (~/public_html) is easy enough. --michener
        \_  -proud American
2006/7/31-8/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:43851 Activity:low
7/31    Can IRA/N. Ireland/UK parallels reasonably be drawn to Hizbullah/
        Lebannon/Israel, i.e. can disarmament and inclusion in democratic
        process be a possible solution?  Does the influence of US/Iran
        make such comparison invalid?  Or is it invalid because Israel != UK?
        \_ Unfortunately no.  It is invalid not because Israel != UK but
           because the terrorists have very different goals.  The IRA's primary
           goal was freedom from the UK government (super simplified, sorry).
           Hezbollah's goal is to destroy Israel.  There's nothing Hezbollah
           can be given short of that goal which will get them to voluntarily
           put down arms.  Another difference is who the terrorists actually
           are.  The IRA were locals who got some support from sympathetic
           Americans and other places.  Hezbollah is a proxy army for Syria
           and Iran, not an independence movement.
           \_ Are you aware of the distinctions of IRA vs. Sinn Fein?  I
              presume Hizbullah has similar branches.  As they hold seats
              in Parliament (democratically so), they clearly have enough
              popular support to be a player in the political process.  Is
              it really that much of a stretch to say they could be convinced
              to disarm (At which point "only the outlaws would have guns")?
              \_ Insofar as much (if not all) of their power is supported by
                 their armed, er, arm, the answer is no. Also, I found the
                 following article factual and interesting:
           \_ Re: last sentence: it's not remotely that simple.  Hezbollah
              provided social services for much of southern lebanon...  That's
              beyond the scope of a "proxy army"  It's a beast w/ multiple
              faces that most certainly got funding and weapons from Iran
              (through Syria)
2019/01/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:July:31 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>