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| 2006/7/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:43603 Activity:low |
7/8 Just a reminder that it was USA and USSR divided the Korea.
China had nothing to do with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea
A little historical fact that is unknown to most of Americans:
1. Foreign minister at the time, Zhou EnLai of PRC, via India,
warned USA about not cross the 38th parallel or PRC would have no
choice but defend itself. US Army decided to go all the way. Mind
you that at the time, US does not recognize the government in Beijing
as legitiment representitive of China. There was geniune fear among
Chinese that US would use this opportunity to get involved and perhaps
restore the Nationalist government.
2. Historical documents from China reveal the fact that China (yes,
across the Yalu river) was continuously being bombed by Americans.
At the time, many thought it was the prelude to American invasion.
Korean War, from China side, was more of a war of self-defence than
an ideological war. Unfortuntely, American never see this conflict
outside its "Communist" lens. The sad thing is, American still view
the world using this kind of broad-brush, jus that the lens has
switched from "Communist" to "Terrorism."
\_ Self-defense? What a silly chicom troll.
\_ US acrossed the 38th parallel first. US could of driven
N.Koreans out of South Korea and stopped there. But
McArthur decided to go all the way. We all know now that at
the time, his intension was going to Beijing. You can't say
Beijing was paranoid because its fear turned out to be true.
\_ Yes, after nearly being driven off the peninsula by invading,
Chinese & Soviet-supported North Korean hordes. Good troll,
Have a troll snack! -John
\_ N.Korea attacked S.Korea without (Communist) Chinese's
knowledge. At the time, Mao Zetong was busy preparing
for invasion of Taiwan. last thing Communist Chinese want
was draw any excuse for US involvement.
\_ Maybe because they were sending several hundred thousand guys
across the Yalu (including many "volunteers" before the PRC was
officially involved) and allowing massive amounts of supplies to
enter N. Korea. Silly chicom troll. -John
\_ The bombing taken place before China gotten involved (i.e.
before million of people were send across the Chinese border).
When I read those documents, I was suspecious it was a Communist
propaganda myself. Then, 20 some years later, I saw the same
tactic used in Vietnam. It does seems that this is
a common practice of USA to escalate the war. Few tend to know
the fact that US forces were bombing China/Vietnam. When
China/Vietnam respond to such hostile act, US President can
turn to congress and ask for proper "response" as if US was
being unfairly provoked.
\_ Good troll, another troll snack! Next week we move on to
Adult Troll-Gro. -John
\_ I don't see this as a troll, merely stating an
opinion that many people do not want to hear.
1) US did not recognize China as a legitimate
government at the time.
2) China has warned NK not to attack the south,
because the US will get involved and the Soviets will
not back them. But NK choose to listen to the Soviets
instead. And sure enough the soviets chickened out.
3) China does not want a conflict on the Korean
peninsula because it wants to focus on Taiwan. Having
US entering from the North and engaged in a conflict
would give substantial advantage for Taiwan to attack
from the south.
4) McArthur has stated more than once that he will
chase NK (terrorists using current terminology)
across the border, if necessary.
5) Factor all these into consideration, it became
clear it is in China's best interest to be
"PREEMPTIVE" about the war and make sure it doesn't
get to its borders. So it decided to get involved.
The "voluntary army" is just a cover.
6) The Korean war, and then the Vietnam war, is
basically how the international community, especially
the US, came to recognize China as a legitimate
government. It really take WARS to establish
yourself, like the wars we've fought with Mexico.
(yeah, we did fight the Mexicans, imagine that huh?)
If you tell me US have no intention of aiding Taiwan
and stop once they captured the NK leaders inside
China territory, or think the US would not have done
the same if the situation is reversed. You are even
a bigger troll. ;) -chiry
\_ At least we're agreed about the "voluntary army" being
a cover for PRC involvement in the Korean War. Now we
need to get you to realize that PRC could have defused
tensions by not allowing the North Koreans to retreat into
China to begin with. After that, we'll work on the party
line about pre-emption being the PRC's only means of
avoiding invasion by MacArthur. --erikred |
| 2006/7/9-10 [Transportation/Bicycle] UID:43604 Activity:nil |
7/9 Help! My bicycle fell into the sand and my new Shimano Deore DX
shifters have sand inside. I can feel them when I shift. How
hard is it to clean up the shifters? I'd hate to take them apart
only to find out that they're impossible to put back, like most of
the modern over-engineered components today.
\_ You can put them back together. -tom |
| 2006/7/9-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43605 Activity:kinda low |
7/9 Boo. Zidane. Boo. -John
\_ I liked it. You are stupid. Keira Knightley is still flat.
\_ yeah, those islamic terrorist. should of rendition him to
egypt or Jordan.
\_ I'm a france fan, but still that was an awesome move!
\_ Why? It didn't do anything and he got ejected. It was retarded.
\_ It was lame. He was set to end an awesome career as one of the
best and most respected players ever on a really high note,
whether they won or lost. Not showing up for the medal
ceremony was even worse. I always thought of the guy as a
really good sport as well as a superb player, despite his
early career temper outbreaks. This just sucked. -John
\_ I saw a couple dives from him over last couple games.
I think he was pissed his header was stopped.
\- I am kinda wondering, and even kinda hoping, it will
turn out that was in response to some kind of racial or
ethinic or relig taunt and the tide of sympathy will
turn to ZZ. He's a great player technically, isnt a diving
\- i think this is particlarly likely given that ZZ
whacked MM, who is one of the more thuggish italian
players [MM was suspended a while ago for whacking
another Serie A player in the face and was also the
guy responsible for ZZ getting the early PK when
he hit MALOUDA]
weasel, he's been through a lot of crap domestically in
france, and a prett decent guy off the field [HENRY on the
other hand led a bit of a rock star lifestyle but lately
got a lot of sympathy after the spanish coach incident].
There is certainly a "grand tragedy" element to this ...
ZZ was one of the best PKers in the world [for the imminent
KFTM phase], he would have won the MVP gold ball award
probably if France had won ... so he woul dhave gone out
probably if France had won ... so he would have gone out
on the highest note possible. But unless some mitigating
story emerges, his career is going to be bracketed by two
headbutts. Here is a good older article about ZZ:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1182707,00.html
Would have been nice to have seen HENRY and T'GUET play
"en ensemble" rather than as close subs. BTW, you are
probably right ZZ just didnt want to come out for the
medals, but it is possible the fact that after the RED CARD
he was obligated to leave the area had some element ... but
probably he could have come back if he wanted to. i guess
DE ROSSI'S suspension ended just in time for the final after
his suspension after putting a bunch of stiches in MCBRIDE's
head. --psb
\_ we could lock him up, toss him into a jail in Egypt
somewehre, pull his finger nails out one by one and find
out why he did it. He is a muslim, right? we already
have plenty of facilities to deal with these muslims.
\_ I suspect so as well. I wouldn't put it past Materazzi &
co. to have tried to rattle Ziziou all game; I'd give $$$
to have been able to listen in after MM held him back
before the headbutt. -John
\- I watched this a couple of times:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBV52GPhNjw
Maybe wishful thinking but it seems that MM
may have done 1. a nipple tweak [remember, there was
probably a covert ear pull on Ballack in the GER-ITA
game] which ZZ brushes off 2. then come comments as the
are walking along together 3. then presumably some
escalatory comment as ZZ spins around ad immediately
butts MM. If it did turn out that MM said something
maximally offensive [n-word level or think of the
crudest anti-semitic thing you can think of ... not
just a "yermom" joke] do you really blame somebody for
clocking the other person. Well yes you do given the
circumstances, but i think my reaction is he should have
waited 10min and then whacked him ... meaning it was
whackworthy. Something like what happened after the
ARG-GER game [although with differnt motivations].
I guess I dont buy the view expressed by some that no
trash talk justifies the knock to the chest i.e. the
"they are just words" view. I thin the Red Card was
appropriate and they had now choice, but again if it
does turn out MM said some "maximally insulting" thing
who would you think worse of: Somebody with a flash of
anger or somebody so classless as to resort to the
crudest insults [which i dont think are "part of the
game"] or even worse somebody who really is a bigot.
Is the judgement of history really going to be ZZ was
"shameful" or "disgraced" or just dumb? There is a
difference.
\_ "Maximally insulting"? What does that even mean?
Insults only mean as much as a person lets them
mean. People have probably died over yermom jokes.
Being dumb like that in a crucial moment is rather
shame- and disgraceful by itself. I would not be
surprised if MM "had it coming" or whatever but
there's really no way around it.
By the way I would not advise assaulting someone
because of insults regardless of their racial,
national, or religious content.
\- if you cant think of an example, either you have
lived a pretty sheltered life or dont have much
imagination. i dont think it is appropriate to
give examples in the motd. you might want to
watch the movie "white hunter black heart"
for the woman->sketch of hitler scene.
--chaplinsky@soda
\_ No I just understand that words really are
words at the end of the day. Of course
football is also only football and ZZ's
headbutt was the most entertaining thing
to happen in a match watched for entertainment.
Allez!
\- You know spitting on an opponent is a
Red Card offense right. Do you think that
is unreasonable...after all, it is just
water?? Do you think with insults between
players the rule should be you can say
whatever you want? whatever you want as
long as the ref doesnt hear? how about
getting the crowd into it by making
animal sounds, nazi salutes etc? [some
of this has happened in futbol in europe,
\- You know spitting on an opponent is a Red a
Card offense right. Do you think that is
unreasonable?...after all, it is just water
plus germs and phlegm etc. _/
... and i am not even sure your "spitball"
has to hit somebody. Do you think with
insults between players the rule should be
you can say whatever you want? whatever you
want as long as the ref doesnt hear? how
about getting the crowd into it by making
animal sounds, nazi salutes etc? [some of
this has happened in futbol in europe,
cricket in australia etc]. [BTW, there is a
Red Card provision for inappropriate verbal
comments. I cant think of any cases where
this came into effect so I dont have any
context of events. There have been a few
famous spitting incidents].
famous spitting incidents ... the FRA keeper
was suspended for 6mos over a spitting
incident (against a ref, tho).
\_ Spit is physical. I think doing something
egregiously unsportsmanlike deserves red
cards so obviously spitting belongs. So
would some kind of racist gestures. Your
"as long as the ref doesn't hear" is no
different from other incidents... if ZZ's
headbutt hadn't been caught on camera and
displayed in the stadium he probably
would not have been carded. In theory
verbal comments could cause this (But
the only related example I ever see are
when the ref cards for arguing with the
ref.) But even if MM should have been
red carded it doesn't really help ZZ's
case. The apparent nipple tweak might
though. ZZ most probably had a pretty
good reason but it would appear he
placed his ego above the team.
\- being spat upon is not really physical
but at essence a demeaning gesture.
again i think you can be suspended
for spitting at somebody and not
landing the spitball. they are NOT
allowed to book somebody for
something that was not seen by one
of the 4 officials [ref, ast refs on
the touchlines, or "4th man" ...
who is not supposed to use video].
the claim is only this 4th man saw it
directly. they also dont show replays
of controversial stuff in the stadium.
BTW, Sepp and Co have proposed going
to 2 refs for SA 2010 WC. Also lots
of discussion about letting game-
related decisions [say related to
offsides] stand but ex post
penalites for things noticed on
video [diving]. the world is more
complicated than "there are physical
assaults and non-physical ones and
physical ones are lexicographically
worse". i find it odd that any adult
cannot see the "sticks and stones...
words can never hurt me" is nonsense.
assuming you are a USA white person
i dunno if there is an equivalent
to something like "kaffir boeties"
here. see e.g. paragraph 3 here:
http://tinyurl.com/g7he3
about how generic "your mama" taunts
are not the same as personally
tailored "maximal insults". if a
german player said "after the game
i am going to clean my ass with a
soapbar my grandfather made out of
your grandfather" would you blame the
jewish person from clocking the
german guy?
\_ Yes, I would blame the Jew. Every-
one else does! (rimshot!) It Is
clear from your description that
your hypothetical German is just
trying to goad your hypothetical
Jew at a highly public event. If
it happened on the street, then
no, I wouldn't blame him for
clocking the German guy. Also, I
find it interesting that someone
above was unwilling to give a
specific example but you not only
did but chose Jews as the victims.
\- did you miss the afrikaans one?
i didnt think an example
you would have needed to have
been from india or alegeria
would have had much currency
on the motd.
\_ I saw it. Dropping a URL and
a 2 word quote isn't nearly
the same as the 'quality'
line you came up with all
on your own. Having been on
the receiving end of that
sort of thing many times over
the years, I salute you, for
I have never heard anything
as hateful as you managed to
come up with but I still
wouldn't beat you up on
camera in front of millions
around the world over it.
\_ Coward.
\_ ... says the anonymous
coward.
Ho hum, status quo. And while
we're at it, I'm sure you'd rather
someone *say* something mean to
you than *spit* on you. I'm sure
you'll find being spat on quite
physical.
\_ Of course spit is physical. It's
also gross, and I think they all
spit too much anyway during the
games but that's just me. And yes
they claim the 4th man saw it but
they did show it in the stadium so
who can say for sure. The fact it
took so long for a card to come out
casts doubt. But yes I would blame
someone for physically attacking
someone in response to words. This
should be extremely clear cut. The
law holds this up too. Yes that
also applies to "kaffirs" and Jews.
Violence is a completely different
class of action. I would find it
*understandable* but not justified.
An attack is dangerous and should
be treated very seriously. People
can die from seemingly mild
violence. Do you support murder
of racists?
\_ Murder? Now you've gone off
into lala land. Who was talking
murder?
\_ Attacking someone can possibly
get one of you killed.
\_ You can also get hit by a
stray meteor. It isn't
murder. It is assault
and battery. And this
entire sub-thread is way
off topic. I guess you
have no response to what
I was saying so you chose
to distract instead.
\_ A stray meteor isn't
caused by a human.
Assault and battery is.
It can easily lead to
serious injury or death
and attackers know this.
I don't actually know
what your argument is.
We started with "insults
justify violence" which
I refuted. You're
jumping on this murder
thing but I was just
pointing out that
violence is serious in
a way that insults can
never be close to. This
"debate" is pretty much
off the tracks though.
Good job...
\_ Are you Jewish?
I'm the guy on the top: _/
http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/germans/akv
\- dans, is this you?
some of the writing
"i refuted..." is
consistent with your
pathologies.
\_ LAST BOY SCOUTcp
\_ God, soccer sucks. France seemed to be the better team (more
shots on goal, for example) and yet they lost because of
penalty kicks. Why not skip the whole game and just shoot
penalty kicks at the beginning? I was wholly unimpressed with
Italy throughout the tournament and yet they are the champions.
\_ I liked it. You are stupid. Keira Knightley is still flat.
\_ Hey, we tied them! We are the co-champions!! |
| 2006/7/9-11 [Recreation/Media] UID:43606 Activity:nil |
7/9 Pirates of Caribbean 2. Sucked mule's balls. It is basically
a long, boring tease for Pirates 3.
\_ I liked it. You are stupid. Keira Knightley is still flat.
\_ I liked it. You are stupid. Keira Knight is flat.
\_ I liked it. Greatest movie ever? No. As good as the first? I
don't remember the first. But it was fun, it was funny, and it
was pretty, and hey, that's why I went. --dbushong
\_ Are you comparing the movie to mule's balls based on personal
experience? Movie reviews are not a matter to be taken lightly! |
| 2006/7/9-10 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:43607 Activity:low |
7/9 ok, India just test fire a missile that is capable of carry nuclear
warhead and has the range to hit Beijing.
How come there is no "concern" when India test its missile and
develop nuclear bomb?
http://voanews.com/english/2006-07-09-voa21.cfm
\_ Why the "quotes" around "concern"? Probably India actually notified
other nations of the test and where the rockets were pointed. And
of course Kim Jong Il is a crazy little man.
\-^man^rocketman:
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Economist/RocketMan.jpg
re: india, what are you "worried" about?
\_ Rocketman!? We'd better send him to pick up the hash in
Potsdam.
\_ how come there is no talk of saction again India? I mean
missile testing alone is not an illegal act. our over-reaction
was anticipated thus being leveraged by Kim Jong Il.
\_ Wow, the Purina Troll Chow is really getting results! -John
\_ The politically correct answer is because India is a
democratic society, unlike NK, therefore they will not go
nuts and start to attack others. But seeing how we've set a
perfect example of how corporate greed and money can
overweight right and wrong in a democratic society, I think
we should be making a bit deal out of it too. Who knows,
India may decide to bomb little countries that have oil
too.
\_ No, the answer is simply because India is a responsible
country and NK is not. Iran is not. Israel is. The US is.
Britan is. China is. France is. And at the moment, for the
time being, Pakistan is. |