Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:June:08 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2006/6/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:43317 Activity:low
6/8     Al-Zarqawi killed in U.S. airstrike north of Baquba along with 5-7
        associates, including a women and child.  Identity confirmed through
        fingerprints, face, and known scars.  Al-Maliki says intelligence was
        provided by local residents.  U.S. says someone within his network
        gave him up.
        \_ in later news Pelosi and Kennedy plan ceremony to honor
           'slain hero of the resistance'.
        \_ Long ass article on the history of Zarqawi in Atlantic Monthly:
           http://tinyurl.com/mnll7
        \_ Yes! One down, and a few more hundred thousand Muslim
           followers and extremists to go...
           \_ I think he's probably worth a bit more than your average bomb-
              throwing maniac.  -John
        \_ June 9th 2006 is officially a Victory Day! After many years of
           fighting, we won the war on terror! The tide has finally turned
           and major combat operations ends. God Bless!
        \_ In other news jblack and his friends are drinking beer and
           blasting country music to celebrate this news.
           \_ I'm a confirmed leftie and critic of the war, but even I'm
              happy about this. The guy was a terrorist and murderer. Way to
              go, US intel! --erikred
              \_ Comrade, you must quickly be taken to the re-education camp!
        \_ Wow cool all violence in the Middle East will now stop since
           their great leader is dead.
           \_ Who said that?  No one said that.
        \_ It's a fitting that he should be blown up with no warning.
           \_ Except the warning of all the other times we tried to blow him
              up.
              \_ Well he knew we were out to get him, but there was none of
                 this business of having a trial and indefinite pretrial
                 detention.  Just: BOOM!  Game Over.
                 \_ Were there also troops on the ground in case he
                    survived the strike?
                    \_ Iraqi forces got there first, followed by U.S.
                       \_ URL?
                          \_ the http://cnn.com main story, it says, "Iraqi forces
                             were the first on the scene", other articles
                             explicitly say U.S. arrived soon after
                             \_ Thanks. I don't usually read http://CNN.com. None
                                of the wire stories I read mentioned this
                                information.
                                \_ And now for "Attack of the Clones!"
                                   \_ And now for "Attack of the Clones!"
                                      \_ And now for "Attack of the Clones!"
                                         \_ And now for "Attack of the Clones!"
                                   \_ And now for "Attack of the Clones!"
                                \_ And now for "Attack of the Clones!"
                                   \_ And now for "Attack of the Clones!"
                                   \_ WHEN CLONES ATTACK!
        \_ Yay!  Pictures of the corpse!  Go go culture of life!  I'm not saying
           a necessary thing wasn't done, but the right should admit that this
           "culture of life" B.S. is pure hypocracy.
           "culture of life" B.S. is pure hypocrisy.
           \_ rove, I mean, dubya would tell you he defends those who cannot
              defend themselves
           \_ and without pictures the conspiracy nutters would say it was a
              lie.  damned if you do, damned if you don't.  whatever.
        \_ Emmanuel Goldstein is dead! Long live Emmanuel Goldstein!
2006/6/8-9 [Uncategorized] UID:43318 Activity:nil
6/7     http://www.insultthepresident.com
2006/6/8 [Reference/Military] UID:43319 Activity:nil
6/8     Air Force Hero To Defend Accused Marines
        http://csua.org/u/g46
2006/6/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:43320 Activity:nil
6/8     Remaining three critical ministry posts confirmed by Iraqi parliament.
        Two Shiites for interior and national security, a Sunni (who had
        been ground forces commander (for defense minister).
        The nominations had been put forward immediately after the
        announcement of al-Zarqawi's death.
        \_ quagmire.
           \_ Yes, Iraq is just like Vietnam.  Except for the political,
              environmental, religious, geo-political, military, civilian,
              economic differences.  Yep, just like it.  Comrade, The Peoples
              shall one day crush the Western Imperialist Yankee Pigdogs and
              They shall take what is theirs!  Disney and Mcdonald's for all!
2006/6/8-13 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:43321 Activity:nil
6/8     Dear Prius owners. Has your car changed your life and if so, how?
             \_ Pious
        \_ I drive twice as far now because I don't feel guilty for
           polluting the environment (and also I can drive on the
           carpool lane so that cuts my time to travel)
        \_ For a while, I couldn't figure out why people behind the wheel of
           a Prius drive like assholes, and then I read a San Jose Mercury
           article on the subject.  The Prius displays real time gas mileage
           stats, and the most efficient speed is pretty much always 10 to 20
           mph slower than traffic.  If you get a Prius, please keep your eyes
           on the road and not on the fscking fuel economy stats. -dans
           \_ i think only a small % of people is doing that. i am driving as
              usual (avg. 75 mph ) and am still getting ~47 miles/gallon
              \_ Agreed.  I drive it like any other cars.  I go with the
                 flow of the traffic and I also get 47-48 mpg.  Assholes
                 will be assholes, regardless of what they drive.
              \_ Admittedly, it's anecdotal evidence, but I've corroborated
                 this with others.  For the record, I have no problem with
                 folks who drive like you do.  It's specifically people who
                 adjust their speed to get the *optimum* mileage as specified
                 by the Prius' display. -dans
           \_ What is wrong with going slow, as long as you do it in the
              slow lane?
              \_ You will get a ticket for it.
                 \_ Not if you are going 50+. Are these people going under 50?
              \_ The first problem is that some people do this in the passing
                 lane.  The second problem is that some people do this in
                 ohter lanes, but are going well below the speed of
                 surrounding traffic. -dans
              \_ Because if you're going slower than traffic you're a hazard
                 no different than an aggressive speeder.
                 \_ that's what speeders would like you to think.  That's
                    like Cheney's friend being a hazard because Cheney shot
                    him in the face.
                    \_ Actually no, it isn't like that at all.
2006/6/8-11 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:43322 Activity:nil
6/8     Two Toyota dealers are selling the Prius at MSRP, and one marked
        it up by $1200. Another one refuses to give me a price unless I
        show up at their dealership. Has anyone actually gotten a Prius
        for lower than MSRP, and if so, where did you go?
        \_ Geez, is the Prius really worth obsessing over the MSRP?
           For the price I'd imagine you can get a (cheap) BMW and
           probably some hot chicks as well. You can either drive
           lonely by yourself in your small environmentally friendly
           car, or banging some hot chicks in the other car. ;)
           \_I am not sure about BMW, for the price of Prius you can get a nice
             new mid-sized sedan with a lot more powerful but still fairly fuel
             efficient 4-cylinder engine and have some change left.
        \_ You probably already know this, but word on the green car forums
           as of a month ago was that people only got MSRP or MSRP + $500 or
           more, and never below MSRP.  Consensus among friends is that you
           need to go to a Toyota dealer with large inventory, which in
           SoCal would be Longo Toyota in El Monte.  Please let me know if
           you find the equivalent in NoCal.
2006/6/8-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:43323 Activity:nil
6/8     GOP loses bid in Senate to eliminate inheritance tax.  Two GOPers
        (Voinovich/Ohio, Chafee/RI) voted against, four Dems voted for.
        BTW, the credit which covers $1 million for gifts and $2 million
        for inheritance is per-person.  So your parents can gift out $2 mill
        to the kids and $4 mill out of the estate, for $6 mill total, or
        $24,000/year to each kid without counting against the gift and an
        unlimited amount for tuition, medical expenses, PACs, and charities
        \_ That's fine and all except it does nothing for the people who got
           there by working hard instead of riding their IPO stock up.  The
           inheritance tax kills family owned businesses.  When the parents
           die the kids can't keep the business running because they have to
           pay taxes on the value of the business which is a non-liquid asset,
           so they have to sell to pay up.  It isn't that hard for a family
           run business that's been around for decades to be worth that or more
           on paper but have near zero cash.
           \_ The "family owned business" is the distraction.  There are
              relatively few legitimate hard-luck cases like this
              compared to the amount of wealth turning over to
              relatives.  And haven't you ever heard of a "loan"?  You
              can use that to pay taxes and pay it back over time.
              I bet the interest is even deductible as a business
              expense.  Second, the parents, if they're not stupid,
              can put the business in a trust and shield it from
              inheritance tax.  The real deal here is that the Bush
              administration and their republican cronies are
              skewing things in favor of the wealthy, setting up
              hereditary aristocracies.  --PeterM
              \_ And what is wrong with that? Are you jealous?
              \_ A distraction?  Small businesses employ what percentage of the
                 American population?  Off the top of my head, it's something
                 like 40%.  Please correct that if you have a better number but
                 it is not a trivial number.  And no, trusts don't work like
                 that.  If they did then everyone would do it and we wouldn't
                 be having a discussion about it.  And I don't even know what
                 to say about the idea of dinging the kids with having to get
                 a loan to pay taxes on the transfer of the family business.
                 Why exactly should some bank make big bucks on the parent's
                 deaths?  I'm left speechless.  The truly wealthy don't pay
                 these taxes because their money is off shore.  You think the
                 Kennedys or the Bushs pay these taxes?  Fat chance.  The
                 truly wealthy don't follow the same laws the rest of us do.
                 \_ If the concern is really for the small business owner,
                    the proper response is to raise the threshhold, not to
                    eliminate the tax.  The fact that proposals to raise the
                    threshhold are shot down by Republicans exposes their
                    true motives.  -tom
                    \_ The threshhold has been raised many times over the
                       years.  What are you talking about?
                       \_ "[I]nstead of seeking a compromise that
                       might win over a handful of crucial Democrats,
                       [Frist] is pushing for a permanent repeal of the
                       estate tax.
                       Though Republican aides say Mr. Frist has not
                       closed off the possibility of a compromise, the
                       senator has pointedly refused to schedule any
                       floor time for debate about alternatives in the
                       event that his own effort fails."
                       Oh, and by the way, the estate tax affects less than
                       2% of estates even at today's levels.  -tom
                       \_ And?  Mr. Frist is not "Republicans" and as I said,
                          the number has increased several fold over the years.
                          Why should he compromise anyway?  Better to kill a
                          bad law entirely than make yet another confusing
                          tax mess full of loop holes for the rich.  As Diane
                          Feinstein said, "Death should not be a taxable
                          event".
                          \_ Yeah, that's brilliant, to get rid of loopholes
                             for the rich, let's just stop taxing them
                             entirely!  My point is that the Republicans
                             are trying to protect the extremely wealthy,
                             not the hard-working small business owner.
                             Thank you for making my point.  -tom
                             \_ My point is that the Republicans are NOT
                                trying to protect the wealthy, but to assist
                                their friends and family members. Thank you
                                for making my point you fucking idiot
                \_ "A study by the CBO shows that in 2000 only 1659 farms
                    and 458 small business were liable for the estate tax,
                    almost all of which had sufficient liquid assets to pay
                    it. The rest can stretch their tax payments over many
                    years." -The Economist 6/10/2006. I am curious, since
                    you think the extremely wealthy should not have to pay
                    tax, who would you tax in their place? -ausman
                    \_ There is no reason for tax if everyone is self
                       reliant. The reason we have tax today is because
                       negros don't work hard and we have to pay for their
                       social security and welfare. Forget tax and forget
                       social progrems, let the beast starve.  -conservative
                       \_ If this is a troll, it's in poor taste.  If it isn't
                          then, uhm, wow.
                          \_ If you made it to Cal you're most likely smart
                             enough to not preach hardcore self-reliance,
                             racist and conservative messages, so this must
                             be a troll.
                             \_ Well, yes, that's probably right...but my time
                                on motd has made me realize that I can't take
                                that as a given.
2006/6/8-13 [Transportation/Motorcycle, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:43324 Activity:nil
6/8     I want to sell my 2003 Kawasaki EX500 (500R). It has 9800 miles
        on it and I take very good care of it but it has been dropped
        on the right side at 30MPH, so there are scratches present.
        Everything is original stock OEM parts except the new racing
        Z-rated tires that are rated at +150MPH, which is
        obviously more than my EX500 can handle. Where is a good place
        to post an ad for this bike, and how much can I get it for? Thanks.
        \_ Why are you selling it?
           \_ I don't need it anymore. I've had a lot of fun but it's just
              not practical to keep. It doesn't have much reliability and
              and it costs too much to maintain. I've already got stranded
              on the highway THREE times because of mechanical problems, once
              due to the side kick stand fell off and the safety switch
              disabled the engine because it thought the kick stand was in
              the down position. The second time was due to switching from
              regular tank to reserve 10 seconds within the engine sputter,
              but it wouldn't start at all for 30 min. The third time was
              from a completely dead and leaky OEM battery that was only 48
              months old (it had a 12 month warranty), and I was stranded in
              the middle of nowhere. Then there's the cost of maintenance. I
              don't want to pay $250 per set of tire every 8K miles, and $80
              for a new seal-lead acid motorcycle battery every 48 months.
              In contrast my 60K car tires give me 45K for only $400, and
              my 60-month rated car battery in fact does gives me 60 months
              for 1/2 of the cost. The bottom line is motorcycles are fun,
              but they are not reliable, nor do they make much economical
              sense. I'm sad to give it up, but motorcycles just don't fit
              in my lifestyle anymore.
              \_ You should replace your motorcycle battery more often
                 than once every 48 months. No wonder it "left you
                 stranded," you did not maintain it properly. The total
                 cost of ownership of a motorcycle is much much less
                 than a car, which you would realize if you added in
                 insurance and depreciation costs.
                 \_ Unless you have 60-year old Italian racing bikes.  -John
                    \_ Aren't they comparable to 60-year old Italian
                       racing cars?
2006/6/8-13 [Recreation/Sports] UID:43325 Activity:nil
6/8     What's a good bar in San Francisco to watch the
        World Cup tomorrow night and hit on hot Irish chicks?
        \_ SF Gate had an article about that yesterday.
          http://tinyurl.com/lov2g
        \_ International House (more french actually)
        \_ I thought the games are in the morning.
2006/6/8-13 [Health/Women] UID:43326 Activity:nil
6/8     Christopher Hitchens article in Vanity Fair on the history
        of the blowjob:
        http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/articles/060607fege05
        \_ This is awesome.  Thanks.  JAA BABY.  -John
        \_ Like most of Hitchens, it starts out interesting and then flounders
           into Hitchens' own bizarre drunken prejudices (here against
           women and homosexuals, with a healthy dose of hatred toward the
           French and the Third World). Imagine what he might have been able
           to do if he'd just avoided hitting the sauce.
2006/6/8-9 [Uncategorized] UID:43327 Activity:nil
6/8     http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13167385
        How to love fat and fabulous women.
2006/6/8-13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:43328 Activity:nil
6/8     http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2006/06/08/haditha
        Sidney Blumenthal says Dubya's father "waged a secret campaign over
        several months early this year to remove Secretary of Defense Donald
        Rumsfeld ... personally asking a retired four-star general if he would
        accept the position ... The elder Bush's intervention was an
        extraordinary attempt to rescue simultaneously his son, the family
        legacy and the country."
                 \_ Although I agree that something more than a no-fly-zone
                    was necessary to protect our former allies the Kurds,
                    Invasion: Baghdad was just as bad an idea in '91 as it
                    was this time. Remember, the same cast of bad apples in
                    Bush2: Cabinet Boogaloo are the ones that got overruled at
                    the end of Gulf War I. This is their revenge, their chance
                    at vindication, and it's turned out to be an utter mess...
                    just as cooler heads predicted at the end of GWI. As for
                    Carter, are you freaking high? Carter inherited a bad
                    situation and turned it around so that when Ronnie came
                    into office in January '81, he could fuck it up for a
                    while before anyone realized he'd screwed it up. Bush2
                    inherited a budget surplus and undenied military supremacy
                    and parlayed that into gazillion dollar deficits and
                    the belief that anyone with a guerilla army can beat the
                    US military.
        \_ And we care because Dad did such a great job as President?
           \_ He did a spectacular job, in kicking Saddam out of Kuwait, having
              a global consensus, and having everyone else finance it. -Dem
              \_ And didn't finish the job.  And while we're here what are his
                 other claims to fame that make him someone worth listening to?
                 Of the President's I'm old enough to remember, only Carter was
                 a worse President than Dad.
                 \_ The "job" was to kick Saddam out of Kuwait.
                 \_ The "job" was to kick Saddam out of Kuwait and to minimize
                    him as a threat to his neighbors.  Invading Iraq had a 0%
                    probability of occurring at the time, nevermind the obvious
                    problems of occupying the country and keeping the Sunnis
                    and Shiites from killing each other.
                    I say again, regarding the Gulf War, Bush's father did a
                    spectacular job.
                    \_ So kicking Saddam out of Kuwait accomplished what
                       exactly?  Why did we care about Kuwait?  The only people
                       hurt by the fall of the Kuwaitis are the ruling family
                       and even then they just would have lived in exile with
                       their billions of dollars.  We restored hereditary oil
                       rich family to power.  Oh yay.  Success.  We also told
                       the Kurds and southern Shiites we'd support their
                       uprising and then watched them get slaughtered.  That
                       was good for US credibility.  Oh yes, it was a truly
                       spectacular job.
                 \_ Although I agree that something more than a no-fly-zone
                    was necessary to protect our former allies the Kurds,
                    Invasion: Baghdad was just as bad an idea in '91 as it
                    was this time. Remember, the same cast of bad apples in
                    Bush2: Cabinet Boogaloo are the ones that got overruled at
                    the end of Gulf War I. This is their revenge, their chance
                    at vindication, and it's turned out to be an utter mess...
                    just as cooler heads predicted at the end of GWI. As for
                    Carter, are you freaking high? Carter inherited a bad
                    situation and turned it around so that when Ronnie came
                    \_ We've been through this.  Perhaps you've heard of
                       double digit inflation?  The Misery index?  The
                       infamous Malaise Speech?  Four hundred and how many
                       days of The Hostage Crisis on TV every friggin night?
                       Carter showed the world that the US could be brought
                       to her knees by a bunch of untrained thugs with bad
                       attitudes.  Oh yeah but wait, we tied yellow ribbons
                       around everything in support and memory of the hostages.
                       Carter: best President in modern times!  Woot!  The
                       only thing he did was provide Dad a way of not being
                       the worst President in the last few decades.  GHB
                       couldn't even win a "worst of" contest.
                    into office in January '81, he could fuck it up for a
                    while before anyone realized he'd screwed it up. Bush2
                    \_ By that logic, Clinton fucked the economy and we didn't
                       see the effects until a while into Junior's term.  I
                       doubt you believe that.  That knife cuts both ways.
                    inherited a budget surplus and undenied military supremacy
                    and parlayed that into gazillion dollar deficits and
                    the belief that anyone with a guerilla army can beat the
                    US military.
                    \_ Hahaha.
2006/6/8-10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43329 Activity:nil
6/8     Heil German John!
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060608/od_nm/germany_biting_dc_1
        \_ Heh, thanks for the joint effort. However, last month I found out
           he's not a real German so I stopped posting German links.
           Thanks for the continued efforts anyways.    -the other GJ guy
        \_ *snif* I'm moved.  And other GJ guy, can't you come up with
           something?  I miss you.  ChiCom troll's disciples have been sort
           of sub-par recently.  -John
           \_ Sorry for your dwindling fan club membership but as a former
              member, I quit. I was very disappointed that you're not a real
              German. You see, I only troll Ayrans, people who have true
              Germanic blood. You're impure and not worth trolling for.
              I guess if the Swiss were funny I'd continue my trolls
              except they're not. They're notoriously boring and very
              difficult to make fun of. Good luck with your fake-German
              fan club.                 -the other GJ guy
              \_ I'm pretty aryan, please love me.  -John
2006/6/8-10 [Recreation/Dating] UID:43330 Activity:low
6/8     I'm sorry for the silly question but when people have sex in real
        life, do they usually do everything like in porn? Usually porn starts
        with oral and finger, following by some of all of the followings:
        doggy, cowboy, missionary. Fetish porns also have anal, tit sex,
        LARPing, and other things that I personally find disgusting. I hope that
        I never have to perform these things when the time comes. Lastly, is
        pulling out an implicitly agreed upon convention? I never learned
        these in sex education so any advice would be helpful. Thanks!
        \_ Awesome troll.  +5 for originality.
        \_ It's all done like in 1980s German porn.  You need to grow a
           droopy mustache, and slap her rump while maintaining a pained
           expression and saying things like JAA BABY, OH JAA.  Bonus
           points if she has a feathered blond hairdo and chews gum.  -John
        \_ The most important thing to remember is to always tip the midgets.
           \_ Oh, I'll be "tipping the midgets", don't worry about that.
        \_ You do whatever floats your boat.  What is LARPing?  And
           I haven't been pulling out.  It's not that great as a method
           of birth control.
           \_ Someone replaced anal with LARPing. I know pulling out is not
              effective, but what do you use instead? Most of the Japanese
              porns use the condom but none in American porns. Why is that?
        \_ ob Cal dude and prostitute in dorm video
           \_ urlP
              \_ #t
2006/6/8-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43331 Activity:kinda low
6/8     http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13202682
        Indigenous Hawaiian bill falls short in Senate. You whities may
        have won this time, but we will keep trying. Time is on our side.
        \_ Just curious, are there examples in history where a dominant
           race uses military mights to crush all the inferior natives, and
           the natives worship the dominant culture instead of hating them?
           For some reason, it seems that the conquered people seem to
           have a lot of resentments despite all the material goods and
           better infrastructural improvements brought by the conquerers.
           \_ Worship?  Not per se but the Roman Empire was built by
              "Romanising" the natives they conquered.  After a few
              generations, the original culture, traditions, etc, was often
              lost and certainly secondary to their new Roman culture.  I can't
              recall his name this second but one of the "barbarian" generals
              who attacked the Romans was really just pissed off that he wasn't
              allowed to climb any higher in the Roman army because he wasn't
              considered native Roman even though that's all he ever knew.
              Rome capitulated and forked over a lot more gold and land than if
              they'd just promoted him in the army.
              \_ Alexander the Great did this, too. Heck, even the
                 Russian peasants were cheering the Nazis until the SS
                 showed up.
              \- I am guessing you are talking about Arminius of the Cherusci,
                 responsible for the famous Roman defeat in the Teutoburger
                 Wald, also known as the "Clades Variana". On your larger
                 point, I dont think you really know what you are talking
                 about -- it is pretty hard to generalize about the early
                 Roman conquests [unification of Italy], Rome and the Hellenic
                 World and forward several centuries to the imperial policy
                 of the later Roman Empire. A famous line from Horace goes
                 "Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit" [Captive Greece took
                 captive her capturer] which gives a hint about the
                 complicated "feedback loop" between Rome and one of her
                 subjugated powers. --publius
                 \_ I was speaking about later Roman conquests of Gaul and the
                    surrounding regions as far as Romanisation goes.  The
                    reason Greek culture overwhelemed Roman is that the Romans
                    didn't have much of one to speak of at the time.  As an
                    early state with limited culture first making their way
                    into the world, they didn't have that much to spread to
                    their subjects so I'd have to be talking about the later
                    imperial era.
                    \_ How did "Greek culture overwhelm Roman"
                       You may want to read Plutarch on Cato, at
                       first cut. It's hard to know what you mean
                       since the events you are talking about can
                       refer to anywhere from the 3rd cent BC to
                       say the 2nd cent AD. [like when you say "Roman
                       Empire" do you mean the Roman Empire or the
                       empire of the Roman Republic.
                       \_ It means that the Romans stole much of their
                          culture from the Greeks, even going so far as to
                          be educated by them.
                          \_ i dont know what you actually know about the
                             relationship between rome and the hellenic and
                             hellenistic worlds, but based on your phrasings,
                             i dont think you give rome their due. the
                             relationship between greece and rome is one of
                             the BIG QUESTIONS in roman scholarship in part
                             because it is so complicated. one of the most
                             influential scholars in this area is a recently
                             retired ucb history prof.
                         [http://ls.berkeley.edu/dept/classics/facCVs/esg.html]
                             from the preface to one of his books:
                             "rome yielded to the allure of of greek culture,
                             while retaining a provound sense of closeness to
                             while retaining a profound sense of closeness to
                             her roots ... confrontation with hellenism
                             stimulated roman intellectuals to formulate the
                             principles they associated with their past ...
                             prompted the drive to deliniate the special
                             quality of rome's own values ... romans rec'd high
                             praise for their adaptability, their openness
                             and responsiveness to foreign influence ... [but]
                             assiminlation and resistance went hand in hand.
                             [3rd, 2nd cent bc ...] the romans were by no
                             means boorish rustics, awestruck and intimiated
                             by hellenism, gripped by an inferiority complex...
                             the success of gk culture in rome came in part
                             because it could server certain public purposes.
                             because it could serve certain public purposes.
                             they engaged in adaptation, modification, man-
                             ipulation." in particular see essay "philosophy,
                             rhetoric, and roman axieties."
                             rhetoric, and roman anxieties."
                             \_ This guy just sounds like an apologist:
                                "the success of gk culture in rome came in
                                part because it could serve certain public
                                purposes." Yeah, very small part.
                                \_ gee, "this guy" is a former president of
                                   American Philological Assn, and you are
                                   make sweeping meaningless generalizations
                                   (like not distinguishing between Romanization
                                   in Egypt, Greece, Judea vs. Western Europe.
                                   where you talk about "i'd have to be talking
                                   about the later imperial era" simply doesnt
                                   make any sense ... what year do yoou mean?)
                                   make any sense ... what year do you mean?)
                                   and cant remember the details of the one
                                   specific example you attempt to give.
                                   So forgive me for not taking your comments
                                   seriously. Now how about you tell us what
                                   you think caused the "fall of the roman
                                   empire" and tell us what you think about
                                   R. Syme's "The Roman Revolution".
                                   about the later imperial era" ... what
                                   year do you mean?) and cant remember the
                                   details of the one specific example you
                                   attempt to give. So forgive me for not
                                   taking your comments seriously. Now how
                                   about you tell us what you think caused
                                   the "fall of the roman empire" and tell
                                   us what you think about R. Syme's "The
                                   Roman Revolution".
        \_ why USA is critizing China on Tibet again?
           \_ A better question is when does conquered land regain
              sovereignty? Or does it? Got those crazy MENCha peeps
              trying to get back the Western US (including one Mayor
              of L.A.) Why can't they play nice like the people in
              the Kurile Islands?
              \_ Why don't we just give them the LA mayor if they really
                 want him so badly?  -John
                 \_ Or send him off to be Tibet's Mayor.  They can follow him
                    there.  It'll be utopia.  We'll all want in.
           \_ Because we're trying to spare them the turmoil and angst that
              we have suffered since annexing Hawaii. Don't make the same
              mistakes we have, PRC! You don't want an Autonomous Region of
              hop heads and meth fiends!
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:June:08 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>