5/9 Dear motd. Suppose a friend wants to maximize his wedding plans and
would like to get the biggest bang for the bucks. He would like to
invite as many people to the banquet as possible without
losing too much money and without pissing people off. The only way
to do so is by having the wedding back in Asia, which is not an
option for him since most of his friends are in California. He's
thinking about inviting as many close friends as possible so that
red envelopes would recoup some of the costs, while minimizing
the number of non-Asian people since they rarely give red envelopes.
By the way I don't want to get into the whole topic of why many
Americans we've met are so culturally insensitive, ignorant,
careless, and rude that they give gifts instead of traditional
auspicious red envelopes with amounts that at least recoup the
cost of the wedding banquet. We especially want to avoid inviting
non-Asians people who may unknowingly give really really cursed
items like clocks, knives, and things that end up with the number
four, or uneven number of things-- one more reason to not invite
non-Asians. Anyways, depending on the quality of food and where he
holds the banquet, each table is ~$500 for 10 people, and if he
invites too many non-Asians he'll end up losing a lot of money and
have bad luck. What's the best way to go about this? Is it ok to
invite everyone to the vow thing and then exclude non-Asians to the
banquet as to decrease bad luck and increase overall fortune of
the year? Thanks so much for any advice.
the year? Thanks so much for any advice.
\_ This is clearly a simple optimization problem with several variables
and a few unknown constants. We who study this problems cannot help
because your unknown constants cannot be determined without the a
certain about uncertainty (how odd), and perhaps a cultural anthropoligist.
If offending your non-Asian friends costs you more money in terms of lost
gifts than would be recouped by Red Envelopes, then you must avoid
inviting Asians at all. Don't forget you could always sell the gifts
on E-bay. The tricky part comes when analyzing the bad-luck gifts.
Just how much income will you lose from dieing early if given a small clock
vs. a large clock. This we cannot know. Now to be serious.
Weddings are for your family and friends, not yourself you selfish bastard.
certain about uncertainty (how odd), and perhaps a cultural
anthropoligist. If offending your non-Asian friends costs you more
money in terms of lost gifts than would be recouped by Red
Envelopes, then you must avoid inviting Asians at all. Don't
forget you could always sell the gifts on E-bay. The tricky part
comes when analyzing the bad-luck gifts. Just how much income will
you lose from dieing early if given a small clock vs. a large clock.
This we cannot know. Now to be serious. Weddings are for your
family and friends, not yourself you selfish bastard.
\_ 80 column your ass, you inconsiderate bastard.
\_ Your friend's mentality is completely fucked up and completely
misinterperate the tradition.
The way it suppose to work is actually rather simple. At the
front of the benquet, there is typically a team of three or four
that acted as account receivable. As soon as the guest give out
the envelope, the account receivable will 1. OPEN THE ENVELOPE,
COUNT THE MONEY HE/SHE GAVE, and 2. write down how much he/she gave
out in the "income statement."
Why keep such record? because when it's his/her turn to get
married, you typically give the same amount back as SOCIAL NORM
dictates.
In other word. The tradition is designed to, effectively, lend
the money to the new couples, when they need the money the most,
and return the money to him/her when it's their turn to get married.
The only exception to the rule is that you happened to have some
rich friends and you happens to be poor. The tradition allow
the wealthy to channel the funds to those in needs without having
the recipein losing face.
The social norm dictates that if you are out of town and have little
chance to attend other's wedding, then, don't have such banquet.
or says flat out in the invitation that red envelopes will NOT be
accepted. and Yes, having such statement in the invitation is not
as uncommon as you think.
In short, stop being a cheap bastard in the name of tradition.
kngharv
\_ Hang on--this doesn't make sense. So let's say I'm single and
I "lend" $100 to my newlywed friend in his time of greatest
financial need as a wedding "gift". If I ever get married,
according to your setup, he would simply be "repaying" me if
he gave me $100 as a gift, not "lending" to me in my time of
greatest financial need. How about, if you're going to give
a cash gift, just look at it as just that, a gift? -John
\_ You are right. It is cash gift. But there is an unspoken
rule that when it's your turn to get married, he/she will
also gives you the money in return. How he determine
how much he is going to give you? he digs out the income
statement and look at how much you gave the last time and
start from there. There are a lot of factors involved and
I was simplifying it to make a point. What are other factors?
the place where he/she held banquet, for example. Normally
we try to rough guess how much each head cost in a particular
place and try to make sure the margin I made on my wedding
is roughly the same margin he is going to make. There is no
hard rule here. People is not going to hold anything against
you if you forgot to factor in, for example, inflations.
Because a wedding invitation == money. There is a phenomenon
which you may find interesting. It is typically for a bride/
groom to have couple extra tables, and there will be people
come to the banquet uninvited. The logic behind such
uninvited guest is following:"you may think you and I don't
know each other well enough for you to ask money for me, but
I felt I am good enough friend for you and thus I will attend
your banquet, give you my blessing and of course cash gift."
fun? kngharv
\_ Ok let's say I give $100 to my friend and 10 years passed
and it's my turn to get married. Should he give me $100 plus
inflation rate? Also what if I get married 10 times, is that
fair?
\_ If you get married 10 times, you need all the help you
can get...
\_ Don't invite these people to the wedding at all. Instead,
hold a party for all your friends a few weeks afterwards (or
whenever you're recovered from the wedding). It'll be much
cheaper, they won't feel obligated to give you gifts you don't
want, and everyone will probably have more fun anyway.
\_ Yes but in the Chinese tradition, the more the merrier.
\_ There are really two things at work here: a) you're a cheapass
bastard, and b) you're a superstitious bastard. Why should the
motd work for you if you're not going to do anything for the motd
in return?
\_ You should have listened to your mom: Study more and stop hanging
around with those white folk. Bad for grades!
\_ Now that I'm older, I know better :( Mommy says the whities
I hang around with blow all their incomes on pleasure instead
of real estate, do drugs, and don't study. I'm a bad son. -op
\_ True (sad) story:
I gave a set of really expensive knives as a wedding gift to
one of my best friends. Within a year his wife had filed for
divorce and shortly after that (before the divorce even went
through) she died in a car accident. I am not superstitious,
but lots of people told me knives are 'bad' gifts. I won't try
that again. By the way, your post is a poor attempt at a troll.
\_ Is your friend Chinese? Whether it's your fault or not, one
thing is certain: the Chinese community gossips a lot, and
most of them by now think that you're an yang chi idiot and
will not invite you to their weddings.
\_ Jesus H. Christ are really such an egotist that you think
any of this bad luck had anything to do with what YOU bought
as a wedding gift?
\_ "I am not superstitious". No, I don't. However, when
there are so many other gifts to give, I won't chance it.
\_ "I'm not superstitious, I just won't step on cracks in
the sidewalk." -tom
\_ I did once and my mother's back broke. Why chance it?
\_ The only reason I wouldn't give someone a knife as a
wedding gift is think how bad I'd feel if there was
a really bad fight and a spouse stabbed the other
with the knife I bought. Don't give weapons as gifts.
\_ Ditto above about the troll, but generally, a lot of us hairy
barbarian gwailo gaijin types don't know about these superstitions,
and I find it pretty interesting to learn this sort of stuff.
Maybe include a little primer or something? Or would people find
that condescending? And not to sound insensitive, but do you (pp)
really blame the knives? -John
\_ Red envelopes are very auspicious. But you can't just put in
ANY money, you have to put in nice clean bills, as a sign of
purity. The amount must be even number, and the term
"double happiness" should be reflected. $22, $222, $2222 are
extremely good. Also ba, the number 8 is VERY VERY good. $88,
$888 are very good. Never, ever, give things that have 4 in
them, because it is just one tone away from the word death.
Wedding registry gifts-- they're ok if the Chinese guy is a
total ignorant banana in which case anything goes, so better
ask if the groom/bride are ABC bananas. NEVER, EVER give knives
and clocks unless you want the gossipy Chinese community
to hate you for the rest of your life. Clock is the same tone
as "your demise", or "RIP". And BTW it's not uncommon to not
invite whities to Chinese banquets because often they have
exotic food that piss off foreigners, or that the foreigners
start to become annoying and authoritative and ask silly
questions about the food (you just don't question their
culture, just accept it at the wedding ok?). So if you're a
whitie and you're invited, you should feel proud of yourself
for making it in the inner circle. Lastly the Chinese culture
says if you have a vacation home in Santiago Chile you are
obligated to offer them to use it any time they want. Ok
that's all I've got for now. -Motd Culture Consultant #2
\_ Haha this is actually pretty good, thanks. As for "not
inviting whiteys", I turned the "let's gross out the gaijin
for fun" around on a whole Japanese restaurant in Tokyo
once, where they all somehow felt honor-bound to choke down
the live-fish-in-sake they served us just because I chugged
them instead of making a face and sending them back. That'll
show 'em, HAH. Anyway, I thought not inviting gwailos was
just because we're funny looking and weird. So what would
be kosher non-monetary gifts then? -John
\_ So what if you give them four knives? Do they run away
screaming? ;-)
\_ This is very helpful. I kind of knew this stuff but my
Chinese friends never actually explained it. Those assholes.
They just let me infer it. So I'm gonna give them a set of
4 knives which each have a little digital clock in the handle.
Actually, they probably wouldn't give a shit. So I'll send
them to their mothers ;)
\_ Yes. Most ABC bananas today don't give a shit. But
their parents will probably have a heart attack.
So, be nice.
\_ I think John's hit this one on the nose. Turn this into an
educational experience. If some westerners consider giving
money too crass, then they shouldn't come. The point of a
wedding is to celebrate your love, not their cultural comfort
zone. Also, those red (or, in Japan, white) envelopes really
help with the cost. --erikred
\_ FYI, Japanese gives out red envelopes on weddings too.
\_ have a wedding you can afford. Your guests aren't there to pay
for your wedding you cheapass asian. -frugal asian
\_ why don't you have two banquets, Eastern and Western style
invite each guest to the appropriate one.
\_ Best idea I've seen so far. Invite friends and family to
the nice exclusive banquet with exotic gourmet shark fins,
dog meat, intestines, liver, and bobas while excluding
foreigners who may feel offended or grossed out. Then invite
the white people over to your backyard for BBQ, cheap beer,
and football. Great idea!
\_ Gwailo not appreciate gourmet shark fin. All gwailo eat
roast cow. And treat black people bad. -John
\_ I had a Vietnamese/white wedding and my wife's family all gave
red envelopes and my family all gave gifts from the registry.
But we returned almost all the gifts and got store credit, which
is almost as good. In white culture you are supposed to give a
gift which is approximately the same value as the cost of your
seat at the banquet plus wedding costs, so it is the same tradition,
almost. -ausman
\_ What the hell is "white culture"? Is that like yoghurt? -John
\_ why the heck are you registering for items you don't want? I
find these fundraising weddings to be really, rather crass.
\_ I agree, and I think Miss Manners would dispute any
inference that you are "supposed" to give any certain
value of gift. If you attend the wedding, you're supposed
to send a gift (not *bring* a gift, *send* a gift to
the couple afterwards), and as with all gifts, the giver
gets to decide how much to spend. -tom
\_ http://tinyurl.com/z8t6t
How are these numbers determined. I'm afraid that, as
romantic as weddings may be, arriving at the appropriate
value for a wedding gift tends to be based on cold, hard
economics. If you are attending the wedding, you want to
ensure that the value of your gift will cover the cost the
hosts will incur by having you in attendance. Think in
terms of the type and style of wedding, and where it will
be held. What amount do you think will be required to cover
the cost of your meal? Obviously, a cake and punch
reception in the couple's back yard will cost less than a
formal sit down meal in the city's swankiest skyline
restaurant. Once you've estimated what it will cost to
cover your meal, you'll want to add another "bonus" amount
so they actually get a gift in the end, and don't simply
recoup the cost of hosting you. Etiquette queens of days
gone by would claim that guests should never have to
consider the cost's of their host in determining what to
give as a gift. True enough, you don't have to run these
calculations, but a truly gracious guest is naturally
inclined to do so, out of their genuine desire to treat
the bride and groom, and to be generous on, what is to the
couple a very special occasion.
But there is also:
http://tinyurl.com/zwcxs
"Guests will choose a gift based on their budget and on how
well they know you. They are not obligated to cover the cost
of their meal and they should not even know how much you paid
for your reception. To give out that information is considered
bragging and has no bearing on what your guests will give."
So I guess there are various schools of thought on this one.
\_ I would not truest a website's advice on gift giving,
especially one from a industry that profits from such.
\_ We already have a house we had bought three years before,
but lots of people coming to the wedding wanted to buy
us gifts anyway. We had to come up with something. We found
a few that we actually wanted, but mostly we wanted gift
cards, but almost no one in my family gave that, because
they have that save attitude as the anonymous flamer that
it is really, rather crass. Is it better to have an attic
full of stuff you don't want? I really don't see what the
point of that is. But yeah, I didn't tell anyone I returned
their gift. No point in that. The truth is, there is no
"one size fits all cultures" answer to the question. -ausman
\_ Until they come over to your house for Thanksgiving and
wonder why you are dining on Ikeaware instead of the
Limoges china you returned for a big screen TV.
\_ If someone gives you Limoges china, why would you
not use it? Unless it's butt-ugly, of course. -John
\_ I know a lot of people who would say that the
china is nice, but that they need x and that
they can buy x (and probably y and z, too) if
they return the china that they will use only
twice per year. I think it's low class and
tacky (plus, I *like* to break out the china
unlike a lot of people) to return expensive
gifts in favor of gift cards and that, I suppose,
is my point. |
http://csua.com/feed/