Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:May:01 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/5/1-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:42870 Activity:nil
5/1     Colbert lambasts Bush on CSpan. FTW 1 of 3 2 of 3 3 of 3
        \_ Very nice. Very funny. Thanks. BTW how do I capture the
           video as WMV or MPG?
           \_ Net Transport
           \_ Firefox VideoDownloader, don't know how well it works, someone
              just pointed me to it: <DEAD><DEAD>
2006/5/1-4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:42871 Activity:nil
4/30    hello.  i do not think the wall logs should be on the web
        so easily.  what do you think?
        \_ Wasn't it always on the web in a txt file before?
        \_ Can we get motd in RSS too?
           \_ Couple problems with that:
                1) It's more like a message board than a feed
                2) All it takes is one person to booch the formatting
                   (unlike wall.log, which is consistent enough)
                   and the whole the whole thing stops working
                mrauser's working on a message board anyway, stay tuned
                \_ Actually, someone did roll a motd -> rss feed script, but I
                   don't know what's become of it.  If it's lost and I find
                   some time, I'll do it as an excuse to learn RSS/Atom. -dans
                   \_ I wrote one, but cgi scripts still are not working
                      in my cgi-bin directory.  I get "Access forbidden"
                      when I try to run them. -peterl
                      \_ looks like there's a bug in the httpd.conf:
                      <Directory /home/*/*/public_html>
                             AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
                             Options Indexes IncludesNoExec SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
                      (note the "ExecCGI not on the same line as "Options")
                      If it were on the same line, you'd be able to put an
                      executable .cgi file anywhere under ~/public_html and
                      it would work.  --dbushong
           \_ Yeah, I built an RSS feed of but it just sends
              you an entire thread every time there's a change to any part
              of it.  Meh.  --dbushong
        \_ It's WALL! It's not like you're posting trade secrets or steamy
           sex tapes. And if you're walling such things, I think you want
                    \_ Or tax returns. Oh, wait...
           them to be found.... mostly it's inane chatter, but it's our
           inane chatter, and we can track it now -- and to outsiders, it
           reads like what it is. Inane chatter. --michener
           \_ It's already tracked (or at least was before Soda got
              paved) in /csua/lib/wall .  Or did you not know that already?
              Why do you want to make wall so easily crawlable by Google?
           \_ I think there's a realistic concern for expectation of privacy.
              Lots of people wall things like "my boss is an idiot," which
              are not trade secrets but which would not be walled if the
              expectation were that it would wind up on Google.  -tom
              \_ Which is why you have the choice of whether or not to log
                 your walls.
                \_ I think that's stupid.  How would you feel if all
                   of your IRC and AIM and Yahoo IM and Google Chat
                   conversations appeared when someone searches or
                   stumbles on your name in Google?
                   \_ Ah, but they don't.  And wall doesn't have to if you
                      don't want it to.
                      \_ Are you a retard?  I am making up a situation
                         to illustrate my point.  If you start archiving
                         the wall log on google, this stuff will happen.
                         I have some pretty funny wall logs saved from
                         years ago where someone on soda accidentally
                         walls about some horrible things that I will not
                         mention because you will be scarred for life.
                         I would never ever put this somewhere google
                         would find it.   Making everyone not log their
                         walls is stupid.
                         \_ Erm.  Some people don't care whether what they
                            say is available to the public.  Wall has been
                            \_ maybe you should start caring.  I think
                               arbitrarily sticking soda walls on google
                               when soda walls predate google by like
                               10 years is not the correct way to do things.
                               \_ Uh, we've always done it this way so we
                                  should keep doing it this way?  That's
                                  idiotic. -dans
                            public for a long time.  The non-logging option
                            was put in for those who _were_ concerned.  If
                            you want to use it, use it.  If you're worried
                            about someone saving your non-logged walls, don't
                            wall.  Who said anything about "making everyone
                            not log their walls"?
                            btw, RealClimate guy, you just overwrote me.
                            merge your changes.
                 \_ That's not a reasonable response.  -tom
                 \_ That's not a reasonable response.  -tom, arbiter of all
                                                             things reasonable
                    \_ IIRC, that's exactly why that functionality was written
                       into wallall.  Also when lwall/walld was still running,
                       walls were publicly read/write available
                       \_ "publicly readable" is not the same as "indexed
                          by Google."  And it is quite annoying when people
                          don't log their walls.  -tom
                          don't log their walls.  -tom hasn't attended a
                                                       politubro meeting or
                                                       csua event in years
                                                       despite working on the
                                                       Berkeley campus, but
                                                       still feels the
                                                       politburo and the
                                                       undergrads should do
                                                       what he wants, when he
                                                       wants it.  tom commands
                                                       the politburo to give
                                                       him a blow job!
                       \_ Logging walls is so you can do a tail -whatever !*
                          wall_log when you log in and see the context of an
                          ongoing conversation, not to make it public ("public"
                          in this case being visible and indexed on the great
                          big Internet.)  Meditate briefly on the difference,
                          young padawan--great truths may be revealed.  -John
                       \_ Oh, look, an undergrad wrote some code to do
                          something new, and it messes with the little sandbox
                          we've been playing in for the last decade!  Wah Wah!
                          Let's lynch the upstart prick!  Seriously though, I
                          am disgusted by how certain alums treat soda and the
                          CSUA as their personal pissing ground, expect that
                          *nothing* will ever change, and abuse undergrads who
                          actually write interesting software.  The situation
                          is fucked up.  It needs to stop. -dans
                          \_ Take a chill pill, dans.  This is about a
                             specific feature that would have undesirable
                             consequences for both undergrads and alumns.
                             Don't turn it into some battle of the ages between
                             us evil alumns and the poor oppressed undergrads
                             we're constantly shitting on.  -John
                          \_ Um I don't think disagreeing with an idea counts
                             as abuse. The root post of this thread is just
                             someone expressing an opinion. Get over yourself.
                             The RSS thing is kind of cool but personally, I
                             don't think wall fits what RSS is for. Just
                             because you can do something doesn't mean you
                             should. But I hardly even use wall anyway so it
                             doesn't really matter to me.
                             What actually is the point of wall going out as
                             an RSS feed? wall is more of a real time
                             conversation mechanism, not a news feed thing.
                             Having motd.[official and/or unofficial] on it
                             would make more sense.
                             \_ No, disagreeing with an idea is not abuse, but
                                when specific alumni repeatedly gang up
                                against the undergrads, flame the politburo
                                and root, and troll the motd, it adds up to
                                abuse.  What's so fucked about this situation
                                \_ Well you know, geeks sometimes don't have
                                   the best social skills. They attack
                                      \_ Then maybe we should go back to
                                         beating social skills into them.
                                   everything because this is how they function
                                   in their engineering jobs. But they might
                                   not be wrong.
                                is that there is a technological solution for
                                enabling wallrss while stopping Google from
                                spidering it, but none of the alums who bitch
                                so loudly are stepping up with code or configs
                                to solve the problem.  Why the hell should the
                                alumni get to decide what the undergrads can
                                and can't do?  That's stupid. -dans
                                to solve the problem.  Just becaus you can do
                                      \_ I'm still waiting for action on
                                         the last two things I've "stepped up"
                                         \_ Namely?  Maybe the ugrads are more
                                            interested in rolling new
                                            functionality than trying to
                                            recreate soda exactly the way it
                                            has been for the last decade?
                                            Maybe they're busy kids doing this
                                            in their spare time, not treating
                                            CSUA root work as a paid job. -dans
                                            \_ perhaps they (or you) shouldn't
                                               suggest mailing root and stepping
                                               up then
                                               \_ Hey, if they (or I) can con
                                                  you into doing free work,
                                                  but pick and choose what we
                                                  implement when, more power
                                                  to us. -dans
                                                  \_ yes, it's always better
                                                     to jerk people around.
                                                     this is why people bitch
                                                     instead of doing stuff.
              \_ Actually, I find a mixture of jerking people around and
                 rewarding them works best.  It simulates gambling, which
                 causes people to work like madmen. -dans
                 \_ I hope this is a feeble attempt at humor....
                    \_ No, I find it's a legitimate management technique of
                       last resort.  Works nicely with ornery, lazy teams, but
                       isn't really necessary for teams of smart folks who get
                       things done. -dans
                                something doesn't mean you should, but if you
                                use that as an excuse never to do anything,
                                nothing would ever change. -dans
2006/5/1-4 [Academia, Academia/GradSchool] UID:42872 Activity:nil
5/1     The Sheldon awards!
2006/5/1-4 [Computer/SW/Security, Uncategorized/Profanity, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:42873 Activity:nil
5/1     Fuck it.
        RSS wall feed isn't down, so much as only serving out my little diatribe on
        the life and death of the hack.
        I got shit to do. Later.
        \_ Bring it back.  This is *your* organization.  It should run *your*
           code.  If bitchy alums, myself included, have problem with it, fuck
           em!  If bitchy alums have a problem with google seeing it, tell
           them to get off their asses and write robots.txt file to fix the
           problem. -dans
           \_ root staff seems much more inclined to ignore than do anything.
              It's rather discouraging for alums to even bother trying to
              help when work making old desired software run is ignored, and
              for requests that people "mail root if you want to do this," are
              met with much silence.
           \_ yes, you can "fuck em" but if the existence of a feed
              makes people revolt, and not use wall logging, and therefore
              make the feed pretty much useless as well, what's the fucking
              \_ Lowers the alumni noise floor of wall thereby making it a
                 useful channel for undergraduate signal?  Sounds like a win
                 to me. -dans
                 \_ that way all 6 undergrads can talk.  If the alumni noise
                    is a concern for them, I'm sure they can figure out
                    how to make a second wallall channel
                    \_ If, as you indicate, there are only 6 active undergrads
                       in the organization, then perhaps the CSUA has run its
                       course and should be shut down.  Of course, you're
                       wrong, so the point is moot. -dans
                       \_ Do you actually work on getting stupider every
                          day?  -tom
                          \_ For you tom?  Anything. :-*
                             It's cute how you define stupid as "Any view
                             that doesn't support what you believe."  Here in
                             reality, i.e. that place outside of the bubble
                             you live in, we call that closeminded and
                             juvenile.  meh.  Bored now. -dans
                             \_ Coming from you, this is hilarious.
                                \- but is it ironic?
        \_ Let me add some useful info to this debate.  For the record, I
           think it's a cool idea, and don't care of Google indexes wall, in
           which case you could just reenable it as is.  But, the bitchy
           alumni can read these:
  - How do I request that Google not crawl
           parts or all of my site?
  - How can I remove content from Google's
        \_ Interesting and useful. But, really. I seriously have code to
           write for classes and such and shit to do. So I'll revisit at
           a later date. Until then, bad alums, no cookie! ;) --michener
2006/5/1-4 [Uncategorized] UID:42874 Activity:nil
        Best Jobs in the US. #1-- Software Engineer.
        \_ booyah
2006/5/1-4 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:42875 Activity:nil
5/1     what do you use for source code control?
        list of opensource ones:
        (Thanks for the link danh)
        what is this?:
        cp foo foo.bak: +-
        rcs: ++
        cvs: +++
        c-fucking-v-goddamned-s: +
        subversion: +++
        VSS: +
        perforce: +++++
        cat | mail +
        \_ i used cvs at a previous job, then we switched to perforce. job
           after was perforce. now using subversion. i think i like perforce
           best so far -- but havent really had a chance to try anything
           complicated with subversion yet. perforce branching seems
           pretty sophisticated    - rory
2006/5/1-4 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:42876 Activity:nil
5/1     RealClimate rules.  Real climate science blog by real climate
        scientists.  Joe Bob says check it out.
2006/5/1-4 [Consumer/CellPhone, Consumer/PDA] UID:42877 Activity:nil
5/1     Rally in front of SF City Hall (pix from my Treo, looking through
        \_ Is that today's communist/illegal immigrant rally?
           \_ Yep.
        \_ 06 doesn't exist
           \_ Fixed.
           \_ err.. May Day originated in Chicago, USA
              \_ So?  Most of the rallies were organized by ANSWER.
        \_ You need to photoshop on some crosshairs to make these look even
           \_ Yeah. It's not going to put your mind at ease if I tell you I
              work for the government, is it?
              \_ Nah, the fact that you had to use (presumably your own)
                 binoculars and a Treo puts my mind at ease.  If you'd whipped
                 out 8192x6144 pics of this stuff... _then_ I'd be worried.
                 \_ The Treo pictures were taken only to put your mind at ease.
        \_ Cool thanks for the pictures. May I ask what your occupation
           is at the City Hall?
           \_ email me. Thnx.
2006/5/1-4 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:42878 Activity:nil
5/1     Where can I find step by step instructions to change my ssh pass?
        How do I change my login password?  Sorry I haven't been on unix
        for too long.
        \_ What do you mean?  You mean your login password?  Run passwd.
           You mean the password used to decrypt your private key?  If you
           stored a private key on soda, shouldn't you assume that's been
           compromised too and generate a new private/public key pair?
           \_ yes the compromised passphrase fo rdecrypt the key.  Please
              how do you remember the steps to regenerate a new priveate/pub
              key?  All I remember there were some very tricky steps to generate
              the key.  Like I either 1) have to use the keyboard that is on
              the server; or 2) use the java interface to generate the key
              Now I can't find the procedures on csua website....
              \_ You seem to be confusing ssh keys with the ridiculously
                 paranoid (and not altogether useful) "advice" on securing
                 your pgp/gpg key.  Try "man ssh-keygen"
        \_ Passphrase you mean?
        \_ Would this help?
2006/5/1-4 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:42879 Activity:nil
5/1     Has more always been less? Now I have to hit q when I get to the end
        of the motd, as opposed to just returning me to the shell. Is this
        new or did I just not notice this change? Now I have to do LESS=-EF
        \_ on FreeBSD, more was basically less with certain arguments assumed.
           on most linux distribs, it's just less, period.  (more or less)
        \_ What are you talking about? If I use /bin/more it returns me to
           the shell at the end.
           \_ /bin/more is a separate binary from /usr/bin/more, which is a
              symlink to /usr/bin/less  If (like most people), you have /usr/bin
              before /bin in your path, you'll get less.
              \_ Ah, I had /bin before /usr/bin. What's the reasoning behind
                 having /usr/bin before /bin? Or maybe, that symlink should
                 be removed. It makes no sense, because less doesn't behave
                 identically to more. Maybe if less had a feature to behave
                 like more when invoked as that. (Like bash/sh)
                                                  \_ except bash doesn't
                                                     really act like sh still
                 \_ Usually the crappiest, simplest, oldest, safest versions of
                    things are in /bin, the system standard ones in /usr/bin,
                    the sexy new weird local ones in /usr/local/bin, and your
                    own custom build in ~/bin.  So most people order their path
                    ~/bin /usr/local/bin /usr/bin /bin
                    \_ Well, ok but normally, stuff in /bin wouldn't be also in
                       /usr/bin. But mainly yeah more just shouldn't be linked
                       to less like that.
2006/5/1 [Recreation/Stripclub] UID:42880 Activity:nil 75%like:42884
/ OJ like to go to the strip club and \
\ watch but not touch                 /
        \   ^__^
         \  (oo)\_______
            (__)\       )\/\
                ||----w |
                ||     ||
2006/5/1-5 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:42881 Activity:nil
5/1     Please don't (yeah right) turn this into a pro/anti-immigration
        flame war, but I am genuinely curious:  would the immigrant groups
        striking/demonstrating/boycotting/whatevering be happier if all
        illegal immigrants were given green cards/citizenship, and (along with
        their employers) made to pay taxes/SS?  -John
        \_ There isn't one answer to that question.  But many immigrant
           groups are advocating for amnesty for illegals currently in the
           U.S., which would have that effect.  -tom
        \_ Well, Mecha and La Raza appear to be advocating returning the
           southern states to Mexico.
        \_ I think this whole immigration issue is being blurred on purpose.
           Employ illegal immigrants is one of the worse form of corporate
           welfare: employer is able to exploit cheap labor who has no
           bargaining power, while passing down the cost of illegal immigrants
           (school, health care, etc) to the government.  If you look at this
           whole thing from "corporate welfare" angle, then, you probably would
           agree with me that yes, all illegal would *LOVE* to have
           work permit/permanant residence/citizenship given, but that is not
           going to happen for one simple reason:  Those illegal, cheap
           labor will no longer cheap when they become a legal labor.
           Employers would have to pay health insurance and taxes on employing
           these labors, which defeat the purpose of hiring those illegal
           immigrants at first place.
           \- well it is also a benefit to white collar people who hire
              them for services. re: your last point, that is why the
              corporate section of BUSHCO has split with hick BUSHCO ...
              the hicks want them out [and are opposed to outsourcing too]
              while the corporate types want to have an official class of
              second class citizens.
              \_ I would view white collar hiring of nanny and gardners are
                 also a form of "corporate welfare," except individual end up
                 paying more taxes on supporting those illegals than the
                 actual per-hour wages we paid.
                 While it's clear that Republicans are split, I am not even
                 sure what is Democrat's position on this issue.
2006/5/1-4 [Uncategorized] UID:42882 Activity:nil
5/1     Hey ilyas, please come back!!!
ilyas:x:30637:100:Ilya Shpitser:/home/apollo/ilyas:/csua/adm/bin/safesorry
2006/5/1-3 [Uncategorized] UID:42883 Activity:nil 72%like:42925
        Eat bacon, drink vodka, be merry.  Yes there will be girls there.
        \_ If there are girls their then I want to DO them!
2006/5/1-4 [Recreation/Stripclub] UID:42884 Activity:nil 75%like:42880
5/1    _____________________________________
      / OJ like to go to the strip club and \
      \ watch but not touch                 /
              \   ^__^
               \  (oo)\_______
                  (__)\       )\/\
                      ||----w |
                      ||     ||
2019/04/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:May:01 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>