Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:March:28 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2006/3/28 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:42486 Activity:nil
3/28    <DEAD>bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330884<DEAD>
        Best Firefox bug report evARR!!  Okay, maybe second best, there's also
        the bug that kills babies. -dans
        \_ Okay, now you've piqued my interest: What's the baby-killing bug?
2006/3/28 [Science/GlobalWarming, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:42487 Activity:kinda low
3/28    A day or two later and the motd doesn't look much like the dans vs
        the world show anymore does it?  Now it looks like the right-wing
        political trolls vs. the left-wing political trolls show. -dans
        \_ That must mean that you're overdue for a "snipe at tom" session or
           something.  You sure you're feeling okay, dans?     :P      -mice
        \_ Point taken.
        \_ Please support your statement with facts.
           \_ The facts are self-evident.  Please get a clue. -dans
2006/3/28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:42488 Activity:low
3/28    Hey all you armchair intelligence analysts! Here's your chance to be a
        star if you can read Arabic and have a lot of free time:
        http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/products-docex.htm
        \_ "Another administration official described the political logic: 'If
           anyone in the intelligence community thought there was valid
           information in those documents that supported either of those
           questions--W.M.D. or Al Qaeda--they would have shouted them from the
           rooftops.' ...
        \_ "Under pressure from Congressional Republicans ... posting on the
           Web 48,000 boxes of Arabic-language Iraqi documents ....
           Public doubts about the war have driven Mr. Bush's approval rating
           to new lows. A renewed debate over Saddam Hussein's weapons and
           terrorist ties could raise the president's standing."
           http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/28/politics/28intel.html
2006/3/28 [Uncategorized] UID:42489 Activity:nil
3/28    Magnetic Arrow Rest:
        http://www.air-rest.com/products.htm
2006/3/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:42490 Activity:nil 80%like:42493
3/28    Why do Congress and the president hate the Constitution?
        http://www.aei.org/publications/filter.all,pubID.24057/pub_detail.asp
        \_ 'cause it limits their power.  Duh.
        \_ cuz the 2nd amendment is the only true limit on their power left
        \_ Did you mean "nearly every politician"?
           \_ Not particularly..
2006/3/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:42491 Activity:nil
3/28    Open letter to the media re: "Immigrants"
        http://alisavaldesrodriguez.blogspot.com/2006/03/how-stupid-are-us-media.html
        \_ Interesting article. Too bad 1/2 of the Americans will ignore
           it because it's written by a Mexican or it's too liberal to read.
        \_ Can't argue with that.  Well, except 16.
           \_ Sure you can.
              Of her point 1: No, 40% of the Hispanic population was foreign-
              born.  http://www.infoplease.com/spot/hhmcensus1.html
              Of point 3: No, 40% foreign-born, and there are at least 4.8M
              more illegal Hispanic immigrants.  So combining the 2 stats,
              accounting for the exclusion of non-Mexican Hispanics in the
              4.8M illegal immigrants, it's pretty hard to say conclusively
              one way or the other whether a majority of Latinos in the US
              are immigrants.  link:csua.org/u/fct
              Of point 4: Yes, but legal immigrants are dominated by people
              from Asia and Latin America.  In 2004, of 945K immigrants,
              314K are from Asia and 385K are from non-Canada Americas.
              While it is interesting that there are 100K Nigerians living
              in Houston, that is just so much trivia.  A discussion on
              immigration is a discussion about Asians and Hispanics.
              Since 68% of illegal aliens come from Mexico alone, a discussion
              about illegal immigration is a discussion about Mexicans and
              other Hispanics.
              Of point 9: Given point 3, this is highly unlikely.
              Of point 13: http://csua.org/u/fcw [usatoday]
2006/3/28-29 [Transportation/Bicycle] UID:42492 Activity:nil
3/28    Looking for a good place on the web to buy bicycle accessories.
        Looking for a nice LED headlight (they last near forever right?),
        rear rack to put books, decent pump, patching accessories, and
        a little utility bag to put the patching accessories. I've
        considered my local bike shop but after looking at their super
        overpriced Kryptonite locks (cost 2X as much as web) I decided
        that it's a bad idea to buy any accessory from them.
        \_ http://nashbar.com
        \_ Here are some web-based bike shops I like:
                http://www.biketoolsetc.com
                http://www.lickbike.com
                \_ LICK BIKE!
                http://www.cambriabike.com
                http://www.biketiresdirect.com
                http://www.jensonusa.com
                http://sheldonbrown.com/harris
           I highly recommend the topeak road morph pump if you're looking
           for one to take with you on your bike.  LED headlights strike me
           as the best of the low end, but if you're going to spend lots of
           time riding at night, I think HID headlights are worth their higher
           prices.  Get a taillight, too.  If you're taking a patch kit along,
           don't forget to take a spare tube because it takes a while for the
           glue (well, cold vulcanizing fluid really) to cure.  If you patch
           a tube then try to use it immediately, it'll just peel off under
           the pressure.
2006/3/28 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:42493 Activity:nil 80%like:42490
3/28    Why does the president and Congress hate the Constitution?
        http://www.aei.org/publications/filter.all,pubID.24057/pub_detail.asp
2006/3/28-29 [Reference/Tax] UID:42494 Activity:nil
3/28    I bought a piece of unoccupied property and got it appraised at X,
        which was slightly above the listed price. Now that I moved in
        and doing a refi, the loan officer says I need to do an
        "owner occupied" appraisal. How is this going to affect my tax
        and other things? If tax and fees will be based on it, is it
        possible to make my place a total mess and hope to devaluate the
        appraisal? Is there any advantage of getting it appraised
        higher? I understand how silly this question sounds. Need advice.
        \_ Appraisal does not change your property tax.
        \_ It would not be a good idea to make the place a dump as
           this would probably give the bank an action for waste
           against you. If you really make a terrible mess of the
           place, they might even be able to call in your loan and
           foreclose.
2006/3/28-29 [Uncategorized] UID:42495 Activity:nil
3/28    A conservative's take on Dubya's guest worker program
        link:csua.org/u/fcs (work-safe)
2006/3/28-29 [Science/Space] UID:42496 Activity:nil
3/28    What are some of the silly things you do to save money?
        I'll start. I don't water my lawn, it's all dirt. It cuts down
        water bills, saves gardener bills, and conserves water. I also
        don't flush my toilet unless I poo, or when I have guests over.
        What do you do to save money?
        \_ I SHOP AT WALMART and support my Conservative kind. I RULE!!!
        \_ I use yermom as my ho of choice.  Much cheaper.
        \_ Don't you have to spend money on gas or electricity to weed-whack
           the dirt all spring?
        \_ You sound like a moron.
        \_ Utilities: All CFL bulbs where reasonable, CF torch instead of
           halogen, programmable thermostat set sensibly, shower less than
           once-a-day when not needed, double-paned windows, set blinds
           appropriate to season.
        \_ Instead of wasting excess resources, I made one trip to the hardware
           store where I got a crowbar and a fair sized axe and went to work
           on my neighbor's place so I always have material for my fireplace.
           \_  This sounds like Chateau.
        \_ I set a tech toys budget and stick to it.  Less chance of
           of 'accidentally' buying an expensive new gadget.
        \_ "If it's yellow, leave it mellow, if it's brown, flush it down."
           but that's vestigal from growing up during a drought.
        \_ No car, no cable tv. Maybe that is not silly enough.
        \_ I piped my neighbor's heating duct into my house. He is in the
           other half of my duplex so it was easy. I also use his wife, which
           saves maintenance costs.
        \_ You need to do a budget analysis. Where are you spending
           most of your money? Then cut it down accordingly by going
           where you will get the "most bang for your buck". Unless
           your water bill is high, not flushing the toilet probably
           won't make as big of a difference than say eat out less.
           The $10 I save not eating out today equals to a lot of your
           silly flushes!
2006/3/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants] UID:42497 Activity:nil
3/28    "This nonsense of 'jobs Americans won't do' is an age-old lie that's
        been around as long as the republic. Prior to the illegal alien
        problem, the same excuse was applied to the perpetuation of slavery.
        Georgia Representative James Jackson rose in opposition to a Quaker
        petition to end slavery in 1790 by fuming 'that rice cannot be brought
        to market without these people [slaves].'  William Loughton Smith added
        that slavery was an economic precondition for prosperity of his
        constituents, as author Joseph Ellis noted in his book, Founding
        Brothers . 'Such is the state of agriculture,' Smith said, 'that no
        white man would perform the tasks.' "
        http://www.philvalentine.com/IllegalAlienMyth.htm
        \_ this is stupid.  everyone knows 'jobs Americans won't do' means
           'jobs Americans won't do at the current wages'.  There will be
           people willing to do almost anything if the price is high enough.
           \_ And yet that keeps getting dropped in conversation.  And people
              keep acting as if "Americans" won't do the jobs under any
              circumstance.
              \_ yea, but the question is "why pay a higher wage when
                 someone is willing to do it at a lower wage?".  It's
                 laws vs economics.  The biggest loser?  Probably black
                 males whose plight has been deteriorating even during
                 the prosperous 90s.  Unemployment isn't high for other
                 ethnic and gender groups.  If you didn't graduate from
                 high school, yes, your livelihood would likely be
                 affected by the many illegal aliens, but otherwise,
                 you likley won't be affected and may even benefit from a
                 cost standpoint.
                 \_ This post seems like a non sequitur to me. The point
                    is that the employment at the lower wages is illegal,
                    and talking about "jobs Americans won't do" implies
                    all sorts of things which is why people say that. I've
                    seen it raised on the motd, as in "how are you gonna
                    get fresh produce???!11/??"
                    \_ yea, and slavery was legal, so please explain
                       how the comparison with slavery makes sense.
                       \_ slavery was an abomination and is now outlawed
                          everywhere in the world but places you'd never set
                          foot in.  what does the legal status of slavery in
                          this country 150+ years ago in _some_ states have to
                          do with whether or not slavery is ok or the price of
                          berry picking or anything else today?
                          \_ exactly, thus the quote op posted is stupid.
        \_ So the point is 'Jobs American's won't do (for how little we want
            to pay )'.  However, if the employery were to offer to pay what
            it would take to get Americans to work them, would those jobs
            still exist?
            \_ If they need to exist. Some would and some would not. The
               net effect is more jobs for "Americans", although perhaps
               fewer jobs overall.
               \_ nah, it will further increase cost of doing business in
                  the US, and trigger more outsourcing, and moving of
                  factories and jobs overseas.
                  \_ You can't outsource most of these kinds of jobs or
                     that would've already been done. These people are
                     maids, day laborers, farm hands, and the like. Some
                     businesses will fold because of the increased cost of
                     doing business and some won't. Mostly, I think it
                     will be the same amount of $$$ spread out across
                     fewer employees in aggregate.
                     \_ I don't know.  The janitorial and cafeteria
                        people at my company are all hispanics.  So are
                        the people keeping the company's lawn looking good,
                        as are the movers, drivers, etc.  Cost of
                        doing business will increase as living costs
                        increase.  Nobody is talking about outsourcing
                        these jobs, but the rise in cost of doing
                        business.  As it is, we aren't having an
                        easy time competing with China and India.
                        \_ Well, someone above *did* write "trigger more
                           outsourcing" and "mov[e]... factories and jobs
                           overseas." I imagine the cafeteria staff at your
                           company is not comprised of illegal aliens.
                           Gardeners may be. I know that it costs a lot more to
                           have a gardener in places w/o a lot of illegals,
                           even in places where the cost of living is much
                           lower. So fewer people will have gardeners and the
                           gardeners that are hired will make more money, but
                           will probably be better gardeners. I know an
                           old-time tree trimmer and his company has been
                           driven to the brink of bankruptcy by competition
                           with illegal aliens who aren't arborists, but who
                           charge 1/3 the price for the work such as they
                           do it. The cost of doing business will increase,
                           but so will the average wage. More money will
                           stay in the USA, instead of being sent to family
                           abroad. Somehow Europe manages to stay competitive
                           despite higher wages and a higher standard of
                           living. Competing with China and India on price
                           alone is a recipe for disaster, anyway. Maybe
                           people wouldn't need to shop at Wal-Mart for
                           Chinese-made crap if they had more money in
                           their pockets.
                        \_ Yes, the costs will rise.  Or they won't.  And we'll
                           go on with life.
                           \_ life's pretty good as it is today.
                              \_ life was pretty good with slavery.
                                 \_ slaves did not come voluntarily.
2006/3/28-31 [Reference/Law/Court, Industry/Startup] UID:42498 Activity:moderate 79%like:42509
3/28    Hi, let's say there's a small corporation.  The number of authorized
        shares is 1,000,000. All 1,000,000 shares are issued, and employees
        are granted 10% of that, and the founder grants himself 90%.  What's
        to prevent the founder from voting to double the number of
        authorized shares to 2,000,000 and screwing the employees with 2x
        dilution?  Other than all the employees getting pissed and leaving.
        \_ The board can do anything.  If you're a staffer and want to sue,
           you're welcome to but good luck on that.  You'll spend way more
           on lawyers than whatever you might have regained in a lawsuit and
           probably won't win anyway.
        \_ Word of advice, if the chair/founder/whatever is Ari Zilka, leave.
           He'll take most of the money and leave you suckers with
           almost nothing.
           \_ Please tell me more of the Ari Zilka story (I've heard rumors)
              \_ If I tell you the story my identity will be exposed.
                 Let's just say that he's born with special privileges in a
                 well connected family and feels entitled to do whatever he
                 pleases without regard to the well beings of the people
                 who works for him. Back then he and the VCs had deep inner
                 connections and they knew how to get around "the system"
                 very well. They knew how to make up rules and and before
                 you know it, checkmate. You no longer have any legal
                 protection and you're of no use to them. Ari is one
                 fine example of why the rich get richer.
        \_ Nothing.  But, generally this is why small corporations have
           boards, and, if memory serves, the board must be at least 3 people,
           and, once a corporation gets to a certain number of employees, the
           board gets bigger. -dans
           \_ What if two of the three positions on the board of directors
              is occupied by the founder and his wife, in which case the
              are occupied by the founder and his wife, in which case the
              founder will always get the majority vote?
              \_ Welcome to the wonderful world of business.
              \- Is the founder's name RIGAS? --psb
              \_ Then you're fucked.  Not sure, but there *may* be laws
                 against this because of conflicts of interest. -dans
        \_ Merely issuing more shares would not directly screw the employees.
           If he did something like say grant himself 1,000,000 new shares
           that could be grounds for a shareholder lawsuit but good luck.
           \_ What about doubling the number of authorized shares?
              \_ That's basically the same as issuing treasury stock... it
                 only matters when it actually changes hands.
        \_ We just started covering this in my bus org/corp law class. The
           way I understand it majority controlling shareholders have a
           fiduciary duty wrt to the minority shareholders. In the scenario
           you describe the maj shareholder has effectively reduced the
           voting power of the min shareholders by 1/2 (assuming that each
           of the new shares has one vote and the voting power of the old
           stock did not increase). By acting this way the maj shareholder
           has breached his fiduciary duty and the min shareholders can sue
           him for this breach.
           [ I might have this wrong, so I'll ask my bus org prof on thurs ]
        \_ Can the dude with 90% also pay himself a big salary, and thus
           take away all the profits of the company?
           \_ Yes, but the minority shareholders could almost certainly sue
              him because he is not working in the best interests of the
              shareholders. -dans
                 \_ Who is Ari Zilka? -dans
                    \_ ari@csua
                 \_ what goes around, comes around.  hopefully he'll get
                    his just due.
                    \_ He paid his dues when he married chris@soda.
        \_ I don't think there is anything realistic stopping this behavior.
           However, most (not every) leaders realize that by sharing the
           wealth the company has much better chances of success, as everyone's
           interests then align for the good of the corporation.  It's better
           to own 25% of a billion dollar corporation than to own 90% of a
           $10 million dollar corporation.
           \_ Yes, but it's relatively much easier to create a $10M company
              than a $1B company.  Taking the chance of success into account,
              and also taking into account (to use the numbers from your
              example) most people would value $9M more than 9/250 of $250M,
              maybe it's a better strategy to shoot for the 90% of $10M.
                \_ Except a lot of leaders of companies already HAVE that
                   much money.  I'm pretty sure my founding CEO was.
                   much money.  I'm pretty sure my founding CEO did.
2006/3/28-30 [Science/Biology] UID:42499 Activity:nil
3/28    On the 30th anniversary of _The Republican Gene_.
        http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/selfish06/selfish06_index.html
2006/3/28-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:42500 Activity:moderate
3/28    Likud seems to have been kicked upside the head in today's vote. Can
        someone who knows Israeli politics better comment?
        \_ Frontline on Ch 9 has something on this right now (~ 9:30 PM)
        \_ Sharon tolerated Likud because he needed them.  Likud negated their
           credibility on security concerns by acting like a bunch of paranoid
           naysayers, buddying up with religious lunatics (whom a lot of secular
           Israelis blame for inciting violence with the Palestinians), and by
           the fact that despite/because of Sharon pulling out of Gaza and acting
           unilaterally, bombs haven't been going off.  -John
        \_ Here's a different point of view: Sharon was a core member of Likud,
           one of the leaders of this conservative, secular party.  Due to the
           way the Israeli multi-party parliament works, Likud was forced to
           join with the far right religious party to form a government which
           meant the FRR-party got a small number of higher level government
           positions which they naturally used to further their agenda.  As
           far as the violence goes, it was reduced dramatically after Israel
           closed the borders and built walls/fences.  There was a lesser
           reduction in attacks when Sharon later unilaterally pulled several
           settlements out of the Gaza strip and certain West Bank areas. More
           recently, just before his stroke, he declared he was leaving Likud
           and forming a new centrist party.  His policies had already left
           him in a position where he was likely to lose his Likud position
           so he had nothing to lose by leaving although less astute political
           commentators at the time called this daring and brave.  It was
           really his earlier actions that left him in an untenable position
           in his party that were daring and brave and forming a new party
           was the logical next step.  It should go without saying that after
           Arafat died of some unknown disease in a French hospital and his
           wife was left in Paris with the hundreds of millions of EU and US
           cash he had looted the level of violence turned way down again but
           that has nothing to do directly with Israeli politics.
           \_ Nice, but where can I find some hot right-wing Israeli women?
              \_ On any Israeli bus, at any Israeli disco, or in any Israeli
                 pizza parlor, but you'd be putting yourself at serious risk
                 of being killed by a suicidal palestinian.  For your needs,
                 might I suggest usenet, your imagination, and your hand?  At
                 least that way you'll get some satisfaction.
                 \_ Hillel on Bancroft
                 \_ I think there are legal brothels in Tel Aviv.
                 \_ Are there any hot right-wing Israeli women here in the
                    Berkeley?  Is there an Israel Student Association or
                    something?
                    Berkeley?  Maybe an Israel Student Association?
                    \_ Mmmmm, sex slaves from eastern Europe... good plan.
                 \_ Are there any hot right-wing Israeli women here in
                    Berkeley?  We can play David and Bathsheba all night
                    long.
              \_ Mills.  Seriously.
2006/3/28-29 [Computer/Rants] UID:42501 Activity:nil
3/28    So the House passed an immigration bill which uses the stick approach.
        The Senate (subcommittee) passed a very different bill which is almost
        the opposite of the House bill.  Assuming the full Senate passes their
        version as-is, how do they go about resolving the differences?  I know
        the general idea and I can see how they can split the difference on
        spending bills and such but what has happened in the past on bills
        like this where spending and taxes aren't the primary issue?
        \_ Bill Frist will not allow the senate version on the schedule, and
           will try and force through the house version with minor alterations.
           Barring that, they may just say "Yeah, they're the same" and pass
           them on to the President to sign, ala the AEI link below...
2006/3/28-29 [Transportation/Bicycle] UID:42502 Activity:nil
3/28    My bicycle has a weight limit of 350 pounds. I weigh 150 and my
        gf weighs 100. Is there such a thing as a rear seat/rear rack
        adapter I can put on my bicycle so that I can start carrying
        her for fun?
        \_ http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1353878.html
2006/3/28-29 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:42503 Activity:nil
3/28    Tonight's NOVA is about the DARPA vehicle challenge:
        http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/darpa
2006/3/28-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:42504 Activity:high
3/29    http://www.viceland.com/int/v13n3/htdocs/coffee.php?country=us
        Another choice is Chinese food. Chinese-food restaurants above 96th
        street are as ubiquitous as Starbucks coffee shops are in the rest of
        the city, but they look like Mao designed them. A table or two, a
        metal grill door, and two or three gas jets is all you're getting.
        Also, the employees are actually Chinese, and by that I mean two weeks
        ago they were in China. I always feel bad for these guys. Their
        average height is about 5'3", they weigh maybe 95 pounds, and they
        speak no English. And these are the DELIVERYMEN! Not surprisingly,
        they get robbed with alarming frequency. Hell, most women could kick
        their asses. I always like to speculate what these guys' lives are
        like as I take a report and try to find the kids who took their $42
        and BBQ spare ribs. One day you're in China, kicking around the
        countryside, checking on your crops, then three days later you're on
        the 25th floor of a housing project with a bleeding lip and no money,
        trying to explain to me what happened with the 25 English words you
        know. They keep coming over, though, so I can't help but think, "Damn,
        Communist China must really, really suck."
        \_ aspolito has a huge ass.
        \_ Most of the Chinese restaurant workers who came here illegally
           are from Fuzhou, China.  I read a wsj article a year or two ago
           saying that the Fuzhou people no longer care to come to the US,
           because China's economy is booming and there are better
           opportunities there.  That's why these days, I noticed they
           are being quickly replaced by Mexicans.  At its height, the
           Fuzhou guys have a really good network.  Dump one of them in
           Fuzhou-nese have a really good network.  Dump one of them in
           any US city, and he would be able to find someone from his
           hometown, and thus find work and housing, and make a living,
           albeit a not very good one, relatively speaking.
           hometown, and thus find work and housing, and survive.  Their
           superb overseas network was one of the reasons why many of
           them were able to come the US to work for a while, make some
           money, and then go home.
           money, and then go home.  Fuzhou is part of the Fujian
           province.  The Fujianese, together with Cantonese, Hakkas,
           Teochews, make up a big part of the Chinese diaspora, and
           dominate the economies of Taiwan, Hongkong, Thailand,
           Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Filipines.  These dialect
           groups are all from poor fringe coastal regions of southern
           China, though the Hakkas always believed they have royal
           northern bloodlines, and migrated south when northern China
           was invaded.  The poverty of these regions resulted in a
           tradition of emigration and entrepreneurship.
           \_ That's nice. So which group has the prettiest women?
        \_ Are you angry because even they have a job, while you don't?
        \_ Are you angry because they have a job, while you don't?
           \_ I'm not angry.  I thought it was a funny writing piece.  I hope
              the recent Chinese immigrants assimulate into my country and
              lead productive satisfying lives but something tells me they
              won't.
              \_ You are easily amused.
              \_ That's what people always say about new immigrants.  What
                 usually happens is the first generation doesn't assimilate
                 very much and ends up middle class but their kids do fine.
                 \_ I would settle for "ending up middle class".  Nothing
                    wrong with that.
                    \_ Not to Chinese. Haven't you noticed how hard they make
                       their kids study and they all have to be doctors and
                       lawyers? Middle class is failure.
                       \_ Yeah but 1st generation don't end up doctors and
                          lawyers, but a helluva lot better than when they
                          were FOB.
                          \_ Actually, I've been meeting quite a few
                             first generation doctors and lawyers lately.
                             Seems like they have made it easier for
                             foreigners to become doctors in the US.
                             This is bad.  These jobs
                             should be reserved for Americans, and
                             first generation foreigners should stick
                             to restaurant work.
                                \- i think the AMAs efforts to make it harder
                                   for indian and russian doctors to practice
                                   here is well known.
                                   \_ Foreign doctors need to pass the same
                                      board exams everyone else does to
                                      practice here.
                                      \- See e.g. particularly section
                                         on physicians:
              http://www.cepr.net/publications/professional_supplement.htm
                                         I didnt know about the clinical
                                         skills exam that is only given
                                         in Philadelphia. Also, a tricky
                                         part of this is how to "distinguish"
                                         between american who went to foreign
                                         medical schools because they couldnt
                                         get into med school here and
                                         foreigners trained in their home
                                         country who want to come here.
                                         in addition of visa-obtaining
                                         issues, and language testing, there
                                         is the "fifth pathway" program.
                                         I am not an expert on this but it's
                                         well understood that self-regulating
                                         bodies like the ABA and AMA engage
                                         in "income protection" plans under
                                         the guise of "public safety" [yes,
                                         irconic reference to french rev],
                                         see e.g. the nolo v texas case.
                                         BTW, I am not suggesting foreign
                                         trained doctors are as well trained,
                                         but this is an area where the outcomes
                                         area heavily dictated by regulation
                                         rather the "free mkt".
              http://www.cepr.net/publications/professional_supplement.htm
                             \_ Sorry but those comments just spew of
                                complete ignorance.  If 1st generation-ers
                                are competent and contribute in a meaningful
                                way, there should be nothing wrong with that.
                                Do you somehow believe you should have
                                natural right to having everything spoon fed
                                to you?
             \_ I hope they do well too, but I like them doing their
                own thing, which adds diversity and spice to my country.
        \_ Sorry, but I have more sympathy for our kids who get sent to
           places like Vietnam and Iraq, and come back missing a leg, a
           ball, and half a dick, angry and confused as to how they got
           their arse kicked by 80 pounds, 4'9" vietnamese peasant hags
           and stone age desert tribes.  Just browse through the "Names
           of the Dead" ... 18 years old ... 21 years old ... all tender,
           fresh and innocent.  What a waste.
           \_ Good one. It's sad to see our brave soldiers maimed there and
              then come back to the states and wait on the freeway with the
              sign "Vietnam War Soldier Spare a Dime." In addition I have
              to say that these tiny little Viet soldiers on the other side
              did quite a bit of damage despite their lack of equipments
              and trainings. If tiny little men can do big jobs, it makes
              you go hmmmmm. Lastly on my rant I'd like to commend
              these tiny little men who reproduce really hot Vietnamese women

              \_ I am glad you've found solace with tiny little men.
                 Vietnamese girls are not my cup of tea, but hey, if they are
                 a fit for you, whom am I to object.  At least you didn't
                 become a pedophile.
                 \_ If it weren't for tiny little women there would be more
                    pedofiles in America.                       -op
                    \_ thanks for sharing your sexual disposition with us.
           \_ I don't think they were confused.  I think it's pretty clear that
              a 4'9" 80 lbs stone age vietnamese desert tribe peasant can kill
              you when armed with modern weapons in a proxy war fighting on
              their own turf.  Angry?  Probably.  Confused?  Not likely.
              A waste?  Yes, of course, big time.
              \_ Maybe I didn't phrase it right, but I meant confused in
                 the sense of "WTF am I doing in this hellhole getting
                 killed?!  I don't belong here.  I want my mom!"
                 \_ Not the ones I know who have been in combat.
                    \_ Really?  How then did so many of them beoome
                       depressed, suicidal, alcohol and drug addicts,
                       etc.?
                       \_ What is "so many"?  And how does that percent compare
                          to the general population who was never in the
                          military?  Obviously it is an anecdotal sample set
                          but all the ones I know are normal people who came
                          back and got on with their lives.  We've sent
                          millions overseas in the 20th century.  Our society
                          is not overrun by millions of depressed, suicidal,
                          alcoholic drug addicted ex-soldiers.  (But is overrun
                          by millions of depressed, drug addicted civilians).
                          \_ "percent"? "general population"?  "sample set"?
                             Sorry, this is too hard.  I am American.  I
                             watch teevee, and teevee says they're
                             depressed and suicidal.
                          \_ You are right. I am wrong.
2006/3/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:42505 Activity:nil
3/28    http://tinyurl.com/ep643
        14 Walmart stores in Northern Cal, none in the peninsula. What's up?
2006/3/28-30 [Uncategorized] UID:42508 Activity:nil
3/28    http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=34.212651~-118.660726&style=o&lvl=1&scene=3064367
        Is this an example of how suburbs grow? First they carve out
        the road and then they build houses on top of it?
        \_ Are you FOB?
           \_ yeah I FOB, how that relevant?
        \_ They've gotta get the trucks in there somehow...
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:March:28 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>