Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:March:07 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/3/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:42119 Activity:high
3/6     Government monitors spending patterns as a flag for
        possible terrorist activities:
        \_ A friend of mine sent money overseas to his family in Asia. It
           was only $10,000USD but it's a lot in that part of the country.
           A day later he got a call from the FBI asking what the money's for.
           I thought the US gov only cared about money coming in (to fund
           fundamentalists) but I guess they care about everything.
           \_ Where in Asia? My wife sent back $40k (inheritance) from Japan,
              but I don't think that's that unusual for Japan <> USA.
           \_ YMMV.  My wife and I have received >> $10k from Hong Kong
           \_ YMMV.  My wife and I have received >> $10m from Hong Kong
              with nary a peep from Govco.
           \_ YMMV.  My wife and I have repatriated >> $10m from Hong Kong
              with nary a peep from Govco. --cpatten
              \_ $10m? WTF are you doing posting on soda's motd?
                 \_ Dear motd re-editor, case sensitivity matters.
           \_ I think "where in asia?" is a valid question in this case.
           \_ I write one $1k check per month from my B of A checking account
              to my dad's B of A checking account, and he regularly withdraws
              the money in Hong Kong.  We've been doing it for over seven
              years, and neither of us have ever heard from the FBI.
              \_ oooh HK, I bet the US government's really afraid of
                 angry yellow Cantonese Muslims trying to do something
                 little yellow Cantonese Muslims trying to do something
                 bad to us good Christians.
                 \- I endorse the OLD MANDARIN MUSLIM CHINESE RESTAURANT
                    \_ now you are making me hungry.  sour cabbage mutton
                       soup clay pot and thick fat breads.  yummy!
                       \- you may enjoy ball hot pot then:
2006/3/7-8 [Computer/Domains, Computer/HW] UID:42120 Activity:low
3/6     I would like to get a virtual phone number to use for
        forwarding calls to different locations at different times.  I
        don't want a toll-free number, because I don't want to be
        charged when people call me. Any suggestions for companies
        that offer this?
        \_ how about a SkypeIn number?  Combine with SkypeOut, you can
           forward the phone call anywere in the world.
        \_ If you're feeling adventurous you can set up an Asterix box (there
           are Asterix images for WRAP and Soekris if you want an "appliance")
           and register an international number.  I forget where to do this,
           but there are a number of organizations that will let you have a
           number, for free and for charge.  Or Vonage does something similar
           if you want commercial + SIP, although I'm informed quality is
           crap (never tried it.)  If you're interested in setting up your
           own SIP gateway, several colleagues of mine have done so and are
           calling everywhere pretty much for free; I'd be glad to put you
           in touch with them.  Don't know about toll-free, though.  -John
2006/3/7-9 [Uncategorized] UID:42121 Activity:nil
3/7     RIP Dana Reeve.
        She's pointing at Chris and me at the same time!  Hot!
2006/3/7-9 [Reference/Military] UID:42122 Activity:kinda low
3/7     Saw Lord of War last night and thought that while the subject matter
        is disturbing (and the movie was a bit preachy about it), the acting,
        the writing, and the direction really carried it off. And yes, I was
        the guy who disliked Weather Man. --erikred
        \_ it's disturbing because it has a bit of truth in it?
           \_ Truth? What truth? The movie had more errors and generalizations
              than a Michael Moore film. Legal arms shipments by the perm.
              members of the security does not equal what the five composited
              gun runners Yuri was based did.
              \_ shrug.  i'm getting here:
                 "While private gunrunners continue to thrive, the world's
                 biggest arms suppliers are the U.S., UK, Russia, France and
                 China."  I assume that means dollar amounts, not number of
                 firearms.  I assume things like F-16's, Mirages, missiles,
                 tanks, destroyers, air defense systems, etc. tip the scale
                 in favor of the countries over the independents.
                 In terms of number of firearms, shrug, I bet the "used" AK-47,
                 RPG, etc. market is a bigger or comparable share to
                 brand-spanking new + refurb rifles sold by the 5 govts.
                 Generalizations, yes.  Errors, please point out a serious one:
                 I want to learn.
        \_ it was gr8, just like I wrote on motd -someone else
        \_ I was disappointed.  I expected a darkly humorous, edgier, more
           Nicholas Cage film.  In the end it almost played more like a
           documentary to me.  --dbushong
           \_ Gold plated guns!  What more do you want?
        \_ I enjoyed the film, but I couldn't take it seriously. Also, I felt
           like Cage wasn't convincing... I always see him acting roughly the
           same, and he's too recognizable. I would have preferred an unknown
2006/3/7-9 [Computer/SW/Languages] UID:42123 Activity:nil
3/7     Say I use to print out my digital pictures. Say I have a
        really large picture, 3000x2000 and I print only a 4" print instead
        of poster size. How many DPIs will mpix's printer print? I'm trying
        to gauge the quality of their prints vs. my 600dpi printer before
        I decide to get anything from ok thx
        \_ yeah, it's much better to ask an unanswerable question on the MOTD
           rather than spend 29 cents to see for yourself.
        \_ We don't know what printer uses.  Costco uses Noritsu
           QSS-3111-1.  Anyway, DPI is not the only factor to quality.
        \_ Why don't you contact them?. Ask "what PPI will you print".
           It should print at whatever size the PPI * number of pixels ends
           up being. I don't know anything about mpix but it's common sense.
        \_ For what it's worth, an amateur photographer I know (used to
           work on iPhoto) uses mpix and speaks highly of them.
2006/3/7-9 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:42124 Activity:kinda low
3/7     Demographics in China.
        \_ hehe.  so India and China might face the same sort of problems
           we have here - competing with immigrants for jobs.
           \_ Sorry, when did you last have to compete with an immigrant for
              a job?
              \_ I have applied a few times at KODAK/OFOTO in
                 EMERYVILLE.  as required by law, they advertise
                 now and then on Craigslist and make a half hearted
                 effort to interview people.  My internal sources
                 say they keep subcontracting all the work through
                 inefficient, but very cheap Indian programmers,
                 I think through Wipro, and they haven't hired an
                 actual American citizen in recent memory.  So:
                 yes, I feel like I am competing with huge amounts
                 of imaginary immigrants even though its just outsourcing.
                 \_ It's pretty common.  Anyway, I have it from people who
                    have worked there that it's a mess at Ofoto anyway.
              \_ I see your point, but don't be so callous.  I grew up in
                 the central valley where many Americans have been left
                 behind.  In some cases it's their fault, in other cases
                 it's because the educational system is pathetic and
                 because they grew up in really, really crappy dysfunctional
                 families.  And they compete for jobs with immigrants,
                 legal and illegal.
                 \_ I certainly don't mean to sound callous, but competing
                    for jobs with legal immigrants sounds like a natural
                    process and wholly in keeping with the American Dream.
                    However, if you're suggesting we need to pump more public
                    funding into education and enforcing fair labor practices,
                    I'm right there with you. Just don't blame it on the
                    \_ I'm sure immigrants have helped engineering job
                       salaries to shrink somewhat. I'm sure the dotcom bust
                       has also contributed to that more.
                    \_ I'm sure immigrants have helped cause some tech
                       salary deterioration, if just a little.  Depends
                    \_ I'm sure immigrants are responsible for some tech
                       wage deterioration, if just a little.  Depends
                       on how far up the corporate ladder you stand.
                       \_ AGrove and POmidyar probably skews the scale way up.
              \_ H1B? Outsourcing?
                 \_ Well, H1B, green card, or naturalized if we're talking
                    legal immigration; outsourcing wouldn't qualify as
                    outsourcing unless you lost your job to Little Kabul.
2006/3/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Recreation/Humor] UID:42125 Activity:nil
3/7     Heh, funny [sic] interpretation of Bush's recent South Asia trip (direct)
2006/3/7-9 [Recreation/Food, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:42126 Activity:low
3/7     Dear balsalmic vinegar beef marinating guy. What kind of vinegar
        do you use? White? And what brand is good? Thanks.
        \_ I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess... balsamic.
           \_ The message above is obviously written by someone ignorant. There are
              many types. White distilled vinegar, rasbery balsamic vinegar, red
           \_ [80 col. please]
              wine balsamic vinegar (most common), olive vinegar, rice vinegar,
              so on so forth.
           \_ In fairness to the OP, there is such a thing as white balsamic
              vinegar.  But you ought to use the regular dark kind.  Quality
              it not *too* important, so just get something halfway decent.
              -- different balsamic marinating guy
              \_ Racist!
                 \_ Balsamic vinegar of color, then.
        \_ Stop giving me black medicine! ... I mean ... black vinegar.
2006/3/7-9 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance] UID:42127 Activity:nil 61%like:42133
3/7     Ok, long term interest rates finally went up.  We know housing is
        in trouble, but what will that do to the overall economy?  Will that
        help control inflation, or is inflation now determined by factors
        \_ Recent inflation was 9% annual and the Fed is printing money like
           crazy.  It has also stopped publishing the M3 number, I wonder why?
           \_ What's the M3 number? -dans, finance weenie
              \_ M1, M2, M3, L are different measures of the money supply
                 at different levels of liquidity. You may wish to google
                 for M3 :-) --psb
2006/3/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:42128 Activity:low
        Interesting URL blocking for U.S. military forces based in Iraq.
        \_ Other articles point out that the blocking list is BS, the author
           just lined up a bunch of conservative sites that weren't blocked
           and liberal sites that were blocked.  There were plenty of liberal
           sites that were not blocked and conservative sites that were
           blocked as well.
           \_ other articles like ...?  do everyone a favor and post the URLs
              to too.
           \_ other articles like ...?
              \_ Sounds like they need better filtering technology.
                 There's this company in Mountain View that gives
                 its employees free food that can help them out.  Seriously
                 though, our soldiers should be spending more of their
                 time NOT GETTING KILLED than reading stupid ass blogs.
                 I am a big fan of COLBY BUZZELL.
                 \_ In a country where pr0n is illegal, believe me, the troops
                    NEED an uncensored Internet connection.
2006/3/7-9 [Recreation/Dating] UID:42129 Activity:low
3/7     Do you have a habit of buying things you don't need or use?
        What did you buy last?
        \_ We bought a timeshare in SAN FRANCISCO because according to the
           sales guy it was suppose to be easy to transfer to other places
           like Hawaii (but we found out later you need to book at least
           1 year in advance). We ended up selling the timeshare. I didn't
           even want it in the first place. My gf has this tendency to want
           to buy everything she sees and accumulates a lot of junk. Ditto
           with my mother and my sister and pretty much all the women I
           know. They think the garage is a place to store shit they'll never
           need to use. Women like to buy junk, LOTS of junk and it just
           never stops. All women are the same.         -pissed off guy
           \_ My wife frets over buying a new pair of shoes.  Your family &
              gf just suck.
              \_ Hey stop insulting my people. We (Chinese) are better consumers
                 than you America hating green-peace hippies that mostly live
                 in Northern California. Just look at the way people in
                 Beijing and Hong Kong spend lavishly on frivolous
                 Western goods. Consumerism
                 drives the economy, thus we are being good citizens.
              \_ Hey stop insulting my people. We (Chinese) are better
                 consumers than you America hating green-peace hippies that
                 mostly live in Northern California. Just look at the way
                 people in Beijing and Hong Kong spend lavishly on frivolous
                 Western goods. Consumerism drives the economy, thus we are
                 being good citizens.
                 \_ Sorry, but your chicom troll impersonation is a failure.
                    Your grammar is far too consistent -- though I will admit
                    you nailed the tone and general irrationality.  Overall,
                    I give you a 6.31/10.
           \_ My in-laws like to buy food while my wife likes to buy junk food.
              My fridge is constantly full.  If I can close the freezer door
              without pushing, "let's go shop for food because the freezer is
              'empty'".  My stockpile of junk food is actually growing, because
              my wife buy more than she eats.
           \_ My wife is an even bigger cheap-skate than I am, which is
              saying something.  She does make fun of most American women
              for being spendthrifts though.
        \_ Travel in poor area/country to cure yourself of that.
           \_ Really honestly think about how much use you will get out of
              something before you buy it.  If it's an improvement on
              something you already have, think about how much actual use
              the new features will be.  (Like a faster computer) In some
              cases it helps to have a common "real-life" denomonation you
              can use to think about it abstractly, such as: "How many
              hours of work did it take to make $price?" or "How many
              candy bars is this?"  If you get in the habit of thinking
              carefully, you can break the spending habit.
           \_ I rented a Jaguar and drove it through some really poor
              parts of the Ozarks. I'm not really sure why that would
              'cure' anyone of anything.
        \_ Nope.  One tool I use is to stick stuff on my online wishlist
           rather than impulse buying it.  It satisfies that immediate urge
           to "do something about getting it"  If in a few months I still want
           it (and no one's bought it for me) then I'll get it, maybe.
2006/3/7-9 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:42130 Activity:high
3/7 (
        "The man who for two years led Iran's nuclear negotiations has laid out
        in unprecedented detail how the regime took advantage of talks with
        Britain, France and Germany to forge ahead with its secret atomic
        \_ All options are on the table and we will be greeted as liberators.
           Oh, the country is oil rich so they can pay for their own
           reconstruction, the American taxpayer is off the hook again!
           \_ We are sort of greeted as liberators.  Most of the fighting
              is fuckhead Sunnis who can't handle only getting 20 percent
              of the political power since they are only 20 percent
              of the population, vs the dominant Shiite population
              who are viewed as infidels by the Saudis, Al-Queda,
              and that Zaqardi Jordanian fellow.  I think the only
              solution is to wall the entire area in and let them
              kill each other over which of Mohammeds cronies should
              have led Islam 2000 years ago.  What a bunch of
                \- it's a little tough to take you as a serious commentator
                   when you write about islam 2000yrs ago. --that indian fellow
              \_ to use a forest fire term, we need a "controlled burn"
                 \_ Think of it as evolution in action.  Of cource, CSUAers
                    not breeding is also evolution in action.
           \_ So it will cost only 500 billion dollars in 3 years, just
           like Iraq. Hehehehe.
                \_ It makes sense.  We can combine Iraq, Iran and the Kurds
                   into one giant OhFuckIstan.
                   \_ Why the Kurds?  They're doing pretty OK on their own.
                      It's a Sunni/Shiite thing.  Haven't the Kurds had it
                      bad enough already?
                      \_ that is because they are pratically independent from
                         Iraq right now.  I can totally see couple years
                         down the road USA will invade Kurd-controlled
                         territory along with Turkish troops.
           \_ I can't wait to see US invade Iran.  It would be a lot of
              run to watch. Too bad it won't happen, cause with Iraq,
              US is already like a girl with jeans and panties bundled
              around the ankle, butt naked and hobbled.
              fun to watch. Too bad it won't happen, cause with Iraq,
              US is already like a sissy with jeans and panties bundled
              around the ankles, butt naked and hobbled.
              \_ And you made this determination of American military
                 capacity based on your vast wealth of military knowledge
                 and deep understanding of history, logistics and military
                 psychology?  I don't think there will be an invasion, but
                 not because the US military couldn't flatten the Iranians.
                 \_ I think it has more to do with American forces being
                    stretched really thin, continuous inability to
                    suppress resistance in Iraq, and Iran being several times
                    larger in size and population (several times larger
                    than the entire population of Iraq, not the Sunnis
                    population of Iraq).  Also, an invasion would likely
                    turn the Shiites in Iraq against US.  Then there is
                    the difficulty for the US military to recruit new
                    soldiers, soldiers complaining about length of stays
                    in Iraq, a weak US economy with huge budget and trade
                    deficits, lack of international support, etc., etc.
                    Iran also doesn't have internal religious and
                    ethnic divisions like in Iraq, and hasn't been under
                    a decade of sanctions.  Note: pop of Iraq 26 million.
                    pop of Sunnis in Iraq ~5 million.  pop of Iran
                    68 million.
                    \_ Also don't forget, the Iranians have this fun tendency,
                       all the wanting to hold hands and listen to rock & roll
                       aside, to strap on bomb vests and send hordes of
                       fanatical 8 year olds to do things like clear mine
                       fields and gnaw off invaders' feet while they sleep
                       when you attack their country.  So unless you're really
                       when you attack their country, so unless you're really
                       really sure of what you're doing, don't have any, oh I
                       dunno, "other current engagements that may be requiring
                       some of your attention and military resources", and
                       have a whole buttload of allies in the area who're
                       actually willing and able to send in their own brute
                       squads (or even publicly prepared to say that they
                       support what you're doing), not to mention not having
                       any several big, mean countries that are sort of
                       counting on Iranian gas and oil and money for nuclear
                       reactor bits expressing "doubts" about what you're up
                       to, I don't really know if it's such a fantastic idea to
                       go invade them.  -John
                       \_ When your trigger happy President is also a
                          fanatic, it's not such a crazy idea to attack
                          others fanatically.
                          \_ Nobody's attacking anyone fanatically, just
                             dishonestly and incompetently.  If we can't even
                             run a war/occupation/counterinsurgency right,
                             then given all the above crap, I think starting
                             another war is knid of silly.  -John
                             another war is kind of silly.  -John
                       \_ John, you just won the longest sentence
                          of the year award.
2006/3/7-9 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:42131 Activity:nil
3/7     Good renters of yesterday bought homes with 0% down interest only
        mortgages, leaving renters today "cream of the crap"
        \_ Believe me, the current crop of landlords is nothing to brag about.
2006/3/7-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:42132 Activity:high
3/7     Isn't it squishable to use something like fold to modify motd?
        \_ maybe. who is doing it?
        \_ Yes, but no one cares anymore.
        \_ No.  It's theoretically squishable to have something automatically
           modifying the MOTD every three minutes via fold or some other
           method, but ever since paolo did it, it seems anything goes.  -tom
           \- What if you are an obsessive compulsary guy like me who checks
              the motd every 5 minutes _manually_ and do repeated things to
              motd _manually_? How do you distinguish between changes done
              via a script that keeps calling fold or just someone like me?
              Is it squishable because of one's ultimate intent to motd
              regardless of actual changes, or is it squishable only when
              the actual changes are made repeatedly, regardless of method?
              \_ The only cases I know of where someone was squished for
                 modifying the MOTD were when it was being done automatically.
                 Being an idiot is not the same as being a hoser.  -tom
                 Being an idiot is not the same as being a hoser. For example
                 I am an idiot and marco was a hoser.  -tom
           \_ The horse is dead tom.  Please stop beating it. -dans
              PS, I'm a little dubious of your standing to bitch about CSUA
              policy since you've done so since before I got to Berkeley in
              '97, and continued to do so until I finished in '04, and, to my
              knowledge, you never once showed up at a politburo meeting.  I'm
              under the impression that you work on the Berkeley campus so
              it's not like you have distance as an excuse.
              \_ I've been to general meetings during that time frame.
                 I think the current undergraduates really should be in
                 charge of setting policy and direction for the CSUA, but
                 I also think that it's inappropriate and inexcusable for a
                 CSUA officer to intentionally and deceptively screw up a
                 public CSUA resource.  -tom
                 \_ Fair enough.  Even so, I can say your knowledge of the
                    so-called paolo motd squishing incident is incomplete.
                    There are facts you don't have that were discussed by the
                    then current undergraduate members of the politburo in
                    closed session, and a policy decision was made based on
                    those facts.  Thus, in this case, your hard line stance on
                    the issue is in conflict with your statement that
                    undergrads should set policy and direction.  Seriously
                    though, it's been for years.  Don't you think it's time to
                    move on? -dans
                    \_ Don't you think the politburo should have responded
                       to the person who brought the complaint?  I never
                       heard a single word.  And I can't imagine what facts
                       there could be which would mitigate the situation
                       enough that the CSUA President would not have to at
                       least admit wrongdoing and apologize--unless you
                       believed paolo's total BS about how his process really
                       was pine and it was checking mail every three minutes.
                       Closed politburo session for disciplining a politburo
                       member is also total BS.  -tom
                       \_ It would mitigate the situation if the President's
                          apparently anti-social act that stomped on your
                          playground actually benefited the greater good of
                          the CSUA.  If the University was pressuring the CS
                          department to shut off the CSUA's net taps
                          *permanently* in response to complaints that the
                          motd was in gross violations of campus hate
                          speech/fighting words statutes, then nuking the
                          motd would benefit this greater good.  I phrase
                          this as a hypothetical because I can't disclose
                          specifics on the record without betraying the
                          confidence of the politburo members at that time.
                          Refer to question #18 in for
                          more info re: campus hate speech regs (sorry, it's a
                          PDF).  And, also hypothetically, perhaps the
                          politburo didn't respond to the person who raised
                          the complaint because they felt that the individual's
                          language and attitude was abusive and demanding, and
                          they felt disinclined to interact with such an
                          individual?  If said individual raised his/her
                          complaint in person at a politburo meeting with the
                          same language and attitude, I suspect the politburo
                          would have told him to `Fuck off' in so many words.
                          As is, they let sleeping dogs lie.  You can state
                          that ``Closed politburo session for disciplining a
                          politburo member is also total BS,'' but that's your
                          opinion.  The undergraduates on the politburo made a
                          policy decision regarding how they wanted to handle
                          the matter.  If you truly believe that current
                          undergraduates should set policy and direction, you
                          don't get to pick and choose which policy decisions
                          they do and don't make. -dans
                          \_ chmod 644 /etc/motd.public is how I would solve
                             that problem.  No need to run a script to wipe
                             motd. -mrauser
                          \_ oh that's a load of crap and you know it.  paolo
                             was deleting the MOTD because people were taking
                             out his postings of kinneydrivel.  If he were
                             doing it for the greater good of the CSUA, why
                             did he name his process "pine" and lie about
                             what it did?  We're not talking about the
                             MOTD nazi'ing after 9/11, we're talking about
                            while (1) sleep 180 ; cp /dev/null /etc/motd.public
                             And I do think the undergraduates should be
                             allowed to set policy; do you think that if I
                             put the above in a script, called it "pine",
                             and ran it myself, that that would be OK and
                             within CSUA policy?  What a crock.  -tom
                             \_ I agree that Paolo's implementation left much
                                to be desired, but that's neither here nor
                                there.  And yes, if nuking the motd kept us
                                from getting our net tap shut off, while it
                                wouldn't be OK, I'd sincerely hope that it
                                would be forgiven.  At this point the dispute
                                is who's facts are correct.  Yours run counter
                                to my recollection, but I doubt I'm going to
                                convince you my memory is better than yours
                                or vice versa.  But that still begs the
                                question, why are you beating a horse that's
                                been dead for four years? -dans
                                \_ The facts that paolo *claimed at
                                   the time* were that he was "running
                                   tests using screen to have it run
                                   pine in the background and
                                   auto-reattach itself to my
                                   soda-shell whenever i got new mail" (his
                                   words).  Apparently, when it became obvious
                                   that this was 100% bullshit, he told the
                                   politburo that he was on a SOOPER SEKRIT
                                   MISSION to SAVE THE CSUA from the EVIL
                                   LORD MULLALLY.  And apparently he
                                   succeeded in his mission, despite only
                                   deleting the MOTD for about three
                                   hours on one occasion and never running his
                                   script again (at least not automatically).
                                   What an effective leader he was!  I
                                   bring it up because I am still dumbfounded,
                                   not only that he did it in the first place,
                                   but that his credulous cronies let him
                                   get away with it.  Maybe you believed his
                                   bullshit--that would just make you a
                                   stooge and a tool.  Paolo, on the other
                                   hand, was a scumbag.   -tom
                                   \_ Excuse me?  Have you ever sat down
                                      and had a beer with me?  Or Paolo?
                                      Paolo is a good guy and a good friend
                                      who's there when he's needed.  I can
                                      attest to this as will many others.
                                      Back when he was on politburo, he worked
                                      his ass for the CSUA.  So did I.  You,
                                      on the other hand are a faceless bitter
                                      dour naysayer alumni who sees fit
                                      to bitch and moan about `those kids
                                      these days,' but, in my seven years
                                      kicking around Berkeley, I never once
                                      saw you lift a finger for this
                                      organization.  You seem to believe that
                                   \_ Excuse me?  Have you ever sat down and
                                      had a beer with Paolo?  Or me?  I know
                                      he busted his ass for the CSUA when he
                                      was on politburo.  So did I.  You on the
                                      other hand seem to be a bitter dour
                                      naysayer alumnus who loves to bitch
                                      about ``those damned kids these days,''
                                      but, in the seven years I was active in
                                      the CSUA, I never once saw you lift a
                                      finger for this organization.  Basically,
                                      you're a parasite.  You seem to think
                                      the motd is your personal playground,
                                      You think Paolo pissed on it once four
                                      years ago, and, like a child or a
                                      fanatic, you latch onto this tiny
                                      perceived slight, blow it way out of
                                      proportion, and refuse to move on or let
                                      go.  Somehow, in the haze of your ongoing
                                      childish tantrum, you concluded that
                                      people you barely or never interacted
                                      with are, in your words, scumbags,
                                      stooges, and tools.  My first impulse is
                                      to revert to your level and call you a
                                      wanker, but, on further reflection, I'm
                                      simply speechless. -dans
                                      and you believe Paolo pissed on it.
                                      Like a child or a fanatic, your response
                                      to this tiny perceived slight is to blow
                                      it completely out of proportion: You
                                      hold a grudge over the matter that's
                                      lasted four years (and counting).  On
                                      the basis of incomplete information
                                      about a single event, you just labeled
                                      a bunch of people you've barely or never
                                      interacted with as stooges, tools, and
                                      scumbags.  I'm tempted to drop to your
                                      level and call you a wanker, but,
                                      frankly, I'm just speechless. -dans
                                      \_ Way to change the subject!  First of
                                         all, I am quite confident that I
                                         have both done more work for the CSUA
                                         and donated more money to the CSUA
                                         than either of you.  Second, how
                                         much work any of us have done for
                                         the CSUA is completely irrelevant
                                         to whether paolo's actions were
                                         inappropriate.  And it's not just
                                         that he munged the MOTD; it's that
                                         he threatened me with lawsuits and
                                         police action when I reported it.
                                         That's appropriate behavior for
                                         an officer of an organization?  -tom
                                         \_ I'm not changing the subject.  You
                                            called me a tool and a stooge.  I
                                            can live with that.  But you also
                                            slapped that label (and scumbag)
                                            on several of my friends,
                                            something I am considerably less
                                            inclined to tolerate.  This is the
                                            first time you've brought up
                                            threats of lawsuits and police
                                            action.  I know in your world you
                                            want us all to bow down and lick
                                            your asshole when you champion
                                            your righteous views, but a) you
                                            refuse to allow for the fact that
                                            you may be wrong and b) we live in
                                            a civil society where the police
                                            and the courts exist to adjudicate
                                            disputes between parties.  You
                                            have a right to raise complaints.
                                            But if you harrass people to make
                                            your complaints heard, or your
                                            complaints are slanderous or
                                            libelous, then the wronged parties
                                            have a right to seek legal
                                            recourse.  If Paolo legitimately
                                            felt you wronged him, then it is
                                            reasonable and appropriate for him
                                            to seek remedy from the police or
                                            the courts. -dans
                                            \_ except he was 100% full of
                                               shit, which is why he
                                               apparently came up with a
                                               totally new story in the
                                               SOOPER SEKRIT POLITBURO
                                               MEETING where, surprise,
                                               his friends decided not to
                                               do anything to him.  -tom
                                               \_ I am ready to fight you Tom.
                                                  Are you a coward? -dans
                                                  \_ GUN DUEL!!
                                                  \_ I did not write this.
                                                     \_ So you are scared to
                                                        fight tom too? It is
                                                        too bad for the
                                                        CSUA you both lack
                                                        physical courage.
                                               \_ Look tom, if it was such an
                                                  important issue, and you
                                                  believe so strongly in your
                                                  conviction that Paolo is a
                                                  liar and a `scumbag,' you
                                                  could have escalated your
                                                  complaint to the ASUC, the
                                                  CS department, or the
                                                  University level.  You chose
                                                  not to do that.  Instead,
                                                  you vent on the motd with
                                                  cheap shots and low blows at
                                                  the parties involved four
                                                  years after the fact.  This
                                                  is just sour grapes over the
                                                  fact that the politburo
                                                  decided that you were wrong,
                                                  and your complaint lacked
                                                  merit.  Apparently you don't
                                                  like to be reminded that
                                                  you're not omnipotent, and
                                                  sometimes this leads to
                                                  incorrect conclusions. -dans
                                                  \_ I didn't vent on the MOTD.
                                                     I reported it to the
                                                     politburo, courteously
                                                     and with details.  The
                                                     \_ And then proceeded to
                                                        vent about it on the
                                                        motd for the next four
                                                        years (and counting!)
                                                        when the politburo
                                                        decided, based on
                                                        findings of fact that
                                                        your complaint was
                                                        without merit. -dans
                                                     politburo ignored me
                                                     except for paolo's
                                                     reply where he lied about
                                                     what he was doing,
                                                     claimed he was placing
                                                     a restraining order
                                                     against me, and blamed
                                                     me for making soda
                                                     "not a place for
                                                     (Ignoring, of course,
                                                     the fact that he was the
                                                     one trashing the
                                                     resource).  The act
                                                     itself was not that
                                                     big a deal, and it
                                                     would have been a
                                                     disservice to the CSUA
                                                     to try to bring it to
                                                     a higher authority.
                                                     However, paolo is still
                                                     a scumbag and you're
                                                     still a tool.  -tom
                                                     \_ I am thankful I don't
                                                        see the world through
                                                        your eyes. -dans
                                           \_ The bottom line here is paolo was
                                              your friend and anything he did
                                              was fine.
                                              \_ No.  I choose my friends
                                                 because they behave like
                                                 honorable human beings I can
                                                 respect.  I can't be friends
                                                 with someone I don't respect.
                                                 If he did something genuinely
                                                 reprehensible, he wouldn't be
                                                 my friend anymore. -dans
                                                 \_ It wasn't "reprehensible";
                                                    I mean, he didn't murder
                                                    anyone or steal etc. What
                                                    he did do was break a CSUA
                                                    policy that others have
                                                    been disciplined for, and
                                                    lied about it. I mean, you
                                                    \_ To my knowledge, he did
                                                       not lie about it.  Tom
                                                       accuses him of lying
                                                       about it, but, as this
                                                       thread shows, Tom lives
                                                       in a reality distortion
                                                       field so I am
                                                       disinclined to believe
                                                       Tom's accusation.  Honor
                                                       and honesty are very
                                                       important to me, and
                                                       while I don't view them
                                                       purely in black and
                                                       white, I would end a
                                                       friendship over them
                                                       \_ So, do you believe
                                                          the following?
  1.  I have been and was running tests using screen to have it run pine
in the background and auto-reattach itself to my soda-shell whenever i got
new mail (think of it as biff++).  I have been running these test for
several days now.

I have been checking my screen sessions on soda and the programs I've
been running are not only nice'd, but go to sleep awaiting a timer
call.  I'm using soda because some of my mail goes to soda.


  For this i am contacting the OSC and the Berkeley PD about restraining
orders placed against Mr. Holub.
                                                          The first two
                                                          paragraphs don't
                                                          jibe at all with
                                                          what you claim
                                                          happened at the
                                                          SOOPER SEKRIT
                                                          politburo meeting.
                                                          And I seriously
                                                          doubt he ever
                                                          contact OSC or
                                                          contacted OSC or
                                                          the Berkeley PD.
        \_ Did Paolo cc anyone, e.g. the politburo on that mail?  That is, if
           Paolo sent the out of context email excerpt you posted, and the
           statements therein are untrue, did he lie to you, or did he lie to
           both you *and* the politburo?  I'm willing to believe he sent the
           email you are excerpting, I don't think your reality distortion
           field is so warped that you would fabricate old emails.  Did it
           ever occur to you that his purpose was to get you off his back?
           If he lied to you, then it was bad form and a poor way to
           accomplish that end.  But, apparently, it succeeded.  You might
           feel you deserve an apology.  That said, however, you make a
           pattern of being rude, belligerent, and nasty in your electronic
           communications, as evinced by your behavior on the motd.  Oddly
           enough, this is something you and I share.  The difference is that
           when someone responds to my nastiness by ignoring me or telling me
           to fuck off in so many words, I accept the consequences.  You, on
           the other hand, demand an apology, and declare a lifelong (four
           years, and counting!) vendetta against the party in question. -dans
           \_ That was his response to my mail to root.  He cc:ed root,
              twohey, ajani, galen, and chialea.  He made similar claims on
              \_ Let's apply Occam's razor here.  Which of the following is
                  more plausible:
                  a) Paolo is privately a degenerate scumbag, but his public
                     face is that of a brilliant social engineer who counts the
                     following people in his thrall of tools and stooges:
                     - twohey, ajani, galen, and chialea
                     - all root staff members
                     - all politburo members
                     - everyone reading wall during the time period in question
                  b) You really weren't privy to all the details, and thus
                     your self-righteous black and white assessment is wrong.
<<<<<<< /home/sgi/dcs/tms
                  \_ This is great.  If paolo sent it just to me, he was
                     just trying to get me to go away, but if he sent it
                     to lots of people, he must have been telling the
                     truth.  How's this for a possibility: the politburo
                     was a bunch of paolo's friends, who didn't want to
                     do the right thing (turn off his account and remove him
                     as President), so they decided in "closed session"
                     (so no one else ever knew what happened) to let it slide.
                     Sounds pretty ontologically parsimonious to me.  -tom
                     \_ tom, do you need a hug?  Maybe a nice puppy or a kitty
                        cat for your apartment? -dans
                  \_ How can you count 'everyone reading wall...'?
                     \_ As tom has made abundantly clear, if you're not
                        with tom, your against tom.  Since those reading wall
                        did not rush to tom's defense and aide, they must be
                        part of Paolo's vast scumbag conspiracy of tools and
                        stooges. -dans
                     Also, another possibility is that those 'tools and stooges'
                     in actuality chose to just let it slide, for whatever
                     reason, since that's the easiest thing to do, and they
                     probably had no idea what really happened and don't
                     care much either way about the incident.
                  \_ You are a black bugger.  -tom
>>>>>>> /etc/motd.public
                     \_ Sounds plausible to me.  It also explains why, unlike
                        tom, they're not still bitching about it after the
                        fact. -dans
              wall.  The issue has *nothing to do* with my online personality;
                                                           \_ Do you have an
                                                              different online
                                                              because you are
                                                              worried about
                                                              getting beaten up
                                                              in real life?
                                                              \_ He does run
                                                                 away when
                                                                 someone makes
                                                                 threats on the
                                                                 \_ you know,
                                                                    psb, a
                                                                    twerp like
                                                                    you really
                                                                    stay away
              it has to to with paolo trying to come up with a plausible story
              to dupe the credulous.  He failed the first time, so apparently
              he came up with a totally different story, completely
              inconsistent with his first one, to tell at the politburo
              meeting.  (By the way, the MOTD that day was
              nothing remotely resembling hate speech).  -tom
                                                    know, whatever, but there
                                                    it is. Your politburo chose
                                                    to ignore that. That thing
                                                    had nothing to do with hate
                                                    speech (that was the 9/11
                                                    motd shutdown). I don't
                                                    think that this incident
                                                    would be enough to break a
                                                    friendship over. But it
                                                    is quite plain that there
                                                    was dishonesty there; can't
                                                    you at least admit that it
                                                    was a wrong thing to do
                                                    especially for an officer?
                                                    Anyway I don't really care
                                                    and nobody else really does
                                                    either but it remains an
                                                    item of precedent that tom
                                                    was perfectly justified in
                                                    pointing out at the top of
                                                    this thread. All the rest
                                                    of this thread is your
                                                    indignant lashing back.
                                                    Anyway I don't have
                                                    anything against y'all I
                                                    just think it's funny.
                    \_ "hard line stance"?  Seriously.. You (by which I mean
                       the last 5 years or so of politburo) only use terms like
                       this because of an inflated sense of importance. I think
                       it's time politburo stops whining about outdated
                       \_ Um, dude, I'm making an argument.  I use language
                          appropriate for the discussion.  Sense of importance
                          has nothing to do with it.  I think it's time that
                          bitter dour naysayer alumni stop whining about four
                          year old slights. -dans
                    \_ For posterity, what were those facts? -!tom
                       \_ The hypothetical I describe is pretty damn close.  I
                          can't disclose specifics without violating others'
                          trust.  Yes, it's lame, but it's also how it fell
                          out. -dans
                          \_ trust him, he's only wiretapping bad guys.  -tom
                             \_ I agree it's fucked.  But I also gave my word.
                                Look tom, I've been way more active in this
                                organization in the last seven years than you
                                have.  Is there a reason your word should
                                carry more weight than mine? -dans
                          \_ That makes absolutely no sense. Do you actually
                             believe that?
                             \_ If someone asks for my opinion on a matter in
                                confidence, I give it, in confidence.  I don't
                                put a statue of limitations on that.  I value
                                my word. -dans
                                \_ I was referring to the hate speech theory of
                                   why noble paolo was auto-wiping the motd.
                                   \_ Berkeley has pretty strong fighting
                                      words/hate speech policies, and they
                                      were *really* on the warpath in the
                                      weeks following 9/11. -dans
                                      \_ yes, nice theory, only problem
                                         is, this was two months before
                                         9/11.  Oh, and when confronted
                                         with the evidence, paolo didn't
                                         say anything about hate speech,
                                         and there wasn't any hate speech
                                         in the MOTD that day.  Unless
                                         you count kinneydrivel.  -tom
              \_ Tom was scared after some geeks threated to physically
                 assault him.
                 \_ That's moderately amusing, but my point is a serious one.
              \_ Us old farts do this for a while, then we transcend Politburo
                 meetings for a higher plane of consciousness.  You too will
                 realize this when you graduate to old fartness, young
                 padawan.  -John
                 \_ John, you live in Europe.  I can understand if you don't
                    make it to a single politburo meeting in seven years.  Me,
                    I don't want to transcend to a plane where I bitch about
                    things, but make no genuine effort to alter objective
                    reality. -dans
                    \_ Earth to dans.  Earth to dans.  You already do that.
                       \_ As if you have any standing to judge.  Please keep
                          believing that.  Social, political, and economic
                          systems share at least one thing with computers:
                          they're easier to hack without someone looking over
                          your shoulder. -dans
                    \_ We're alumni.  We don't have to go to meetings anymore.
                       We've earned the right to bitch from the sidelines no
                       matter where you are.  Hey, it's the undergrads'
                       organization, we have no business showing up :-)  -John
2006/3/7-9 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:42133 Activity:low 61%like:42127
3/7     Ok, long term illiteracy rates finally went up. We know the education
        system in America is fucked thus helping the Republican party,
        but what will that
        do to the overall economy?  Will the proliferation of Walmart and
        conservatism help control inflation, or is inflation now determined by
        factors overseas?
        \_ I love a good backhanded troll.  Ok, so if a bad education system
           helps Republicans then why have the Democrats been systematically
           destroying it for decades?
           \_ What?!?  So I agree that op is a trolling moron, but your post
              just shows an utter disconnect from reality.  tjb?  Is that
              you?  Can you MC for us? -dans
              \_ YHBT.
        \_ Less reliance on illegal immigrants for cheap domestic help!
           Finally a way to get your laundry done by someone you can (sort of)
           understand _and_ who won't get you in trouble if found out!  And
           the great thing is, now that life expectancy's going down, all these
           trolls won't be around long enough for us to have to take care of
           them when they start babbling and drooling.  -John
2006/3/7-9 [Recreation/Media] UID:42135 Activity:high
3/7     What are some of the popular movies you've always hated but didn't
        dare to express it in public because you didn't want to be
        \_ Totoro. It was such a torture watching something so silly and
           stupid. It's almost like watching Who Framed Roger Rabbit. What
           the hell is the point of the story? I mean, what is the message
           or the moral values that it is teaching our kids? It's worse
           than Pokeman, which IMHO, is also pointless and stupid. The
           creator of Totoro was probably on meth and weed at the same time.
           And I have no idea why everyone wants to go to JTown to buy
           little pillow/beanbags that you attach cheap plastic eyes on,
           printed with Japanese tags and the word "Totoro" on it, for
           $89.99 for a 12" model and $259.99 for a 24" model. There, my
           confession is out. Go ahead and ridicule me because I'm stupid
           and "I just don't get it"
           \_ Not a ridicule, but I do have a couple of questions.  Are you
              asian or white?  If asian, how old are you and where did you
              grow up?  If you tell us that, I can understand why you
              hated Totoro so much and just didn't get it.  -totoro fan
              \_ Uhm, as a long time fan of anime, I think I can confidently
                 say that racial ethnicity as a measure of "how much or why
                 you like Totoro" is a crock of shit.  I know people of all
                 demographics that like it, and hate it.
              \_ What does it matter if you're asian or white, taweisan?
        \_ I pity you.  Lord of the Rings Trilogy was weak.  Peter Jackson is
           a mediocre director at best, and badly needs an editor.  BTW,
           what's with the ungame questions? -dans
           a mediocre director at best, and badly needs an editor. -dans
           \_ Blah. Jackson's a great director, and Heavenly Creatures proved
              that. LOTR cemented his rep not because the movies were well-
              directed, but because he directed the three simultaneously
              in a plethora of locations. The logistics were mind-blowing.
              Also see his low-budget offerings for further examples of his
              technical mastery. --erikred
              \_ HE CHANGED FARAMIR!!!!!!1!1!1 THE MOVIE IS A FRAUD!!!1!!!
        \_ I can't stand LOTR. I hated Empire Strikes Back. I cannot forgive
           Lucas for freezing Han. I also didn't like major parts of TWOK.
                 \_ I haven't even posted to this thread, but somehow I feel
                    that I am being made fun of.
                    \_ Flaming Flying Denethor!  What makes you think that?!?
              \_ I'll check out Heavenly Creatures.  Depends on the production,
                 but it's usually the producer's responsibility to handle
                 logistics.  Usually the director's role is very focused on
                 what's happening on-set (or on-location) right *now*. -dans
                 \_ Not so for LOTR. Jackson took advantage of realtime
                    vid-conferencing and other such to review work as it was
                    done by the ADs. The extras on the Extended Edition DVDs
                    cover a lot of this. It was an amazing piece of film-
                    making. --erikred
                    \_ It's pretty common to view the dailies. I think
                       there's a disconnect here. Dan is talking about the
                       logistics of production, which the producers do
                       handle. You are talking about directing (artistic
                       direction) three movies at once. Both are feats,
                       but Jackson was really only responsible for the
                       artistic direction. Yes, Jackson had a lot of
                       autonomy from New Line. I know this because I went
                       to a lecture given by one of the producers (and
                       Sean Astin). There was some sense of "We've given
                       Jackson $xxx million and we haven't heard anything
                       in a while. What's going on over there? Get on a
                       plane and find out." But that's from the standpoint
                       of the executive producers at New Line. The line
                       producers were handling all of the logistics for
                       Jackson (at his behest). Also, I have to say the
                       the editors probably contributed a hell of a lot,
                       turning all of that footage into three movies which
                       made sense. --dim
                       \_ Pax. I certainly didn't mean to belittle the
                          contributions of the editors or the producers. That
                          said, I say he's a great director because he was
                          able to ring-lead the entire enterprise.
        \_ I can't stand LOTR. The books were terrible, the movies were worse.
           I hated Empire Strikes Back. I cannot forgive Lucas for freezing
           Han. I also didn't like major parts of TWOK. IRL I keep these
           opinions to myself b/c I don't want to be accosted by over-zealous
           LOTR and SW cosplayers. Not that they would hurt me, BUT being seen
           w/ such people might reduce my street cred as a hard core star trek
           fan. -stmg
           \_ Do you write ?
           \_ I love your unswerving lack of nerve in failing to stand up for
              what you love in a non-anonymous forum like IRL. --erikred
              \_ Hey, the topic asked for people who had no nerve to
                 post and be counted. If I had a backbone, I'd be
                 wearing my Vulcan ears to class. -stmg
           \_ You do know that Lucas didn't direct the Empire Strikes Back,
              don't you? -dans
              \_ Lucas has writing credit for the story.
                 \_ But Leigh Brackett scripted it.  She's awesome.
                    \_ The freezing of Hans seems like a story element rather
                       than a screenplay element.
                       \_ Yeah, actually I just wanted to get it a Leigh
                          Brackett plug, 'cause she's awesome.
              \_ Yeah, so what? If Lucas had said "I read your crappy
                 script and I hate the part where you freeze Han. Let's
                 freeze that stupid long haired looser dweeb Luke instead."
                 Do you think they would have said no? Of course not. I
                 cannot forgive Lucas for failing to do the right thing.
        \_ I couldn't stand Gladiator.  Terribly predictable movie.
           \_ I think Gladiator sucks too.  The screenplay is also a direct
              copy of an older 60ish movie, which I saw on TV.  It's like
              wow, isn't this movie exactly the same as Gladiator?  Did
              they acknowledge the older movie (forgot it's name)?
              \_ Spartacus.
                 \_ I'm Spartacus!
                    \_ *I* am Spartacus!
                       \_ No!  *I'm* Spartacus!
                 \_ No it's not Spartacus, which I've seen.  I found
                    out the name of the movie - The Fall of the Roman
                    Read the storyline above and you can see Gladiator
                    is a shameless ripoff of the above movie.
           \_ I liked it because I'm a sucker for that kind of historical
              recreation. The sets and costumes are really entertaining,
              and the fighting is ok (but the opening battle had too much
              cutting). I also enjoyed Kingdom of Heaven a lot, for basically
              similar reasons. Actually I enjoyed KoH more. I guess I'm a
              heretic for thinking Braveheart was overdone though. It's overly
              long. I guess I still liked it too though. They are all a bit
              predictable especially if it's based on historical events.
              I also saw Troy and thought it mostly sucked, but still enjoyed
              the sheer spectacle of it and the subject matter. I'll have to
              check out Alexander sometime.
              \_ I am also a sucker for historical recreations, but I didn't
                 like Gladiator.  I think the reason is because the plot
                 is too naive and the characters flat and without depth.
                 I liked Braveheart.  I even liked Troy.  For Troy, I liked
                 the unique take on Achilles and Briseis.  I also
                 didn't mind the Agamemnon all bad, Hector all good
                 portrayals.  I watched Troy on TV only recently because
                 the reviews were bad.  Could've found a more intimidating
                 looking actor for Hector, but Bana did ok otherwise.
                 Haven't watched Kingdom of Heaven.
        \_ E.T.  I just don't get it.
           \_ It's simple. Kids are kind in heart and sees good in people
           \_ It's simple. Kids are kind in heart and see good in people
              (and in this case ET) regardless of their looks. Adults on
              the other hand are mostly motivated by fear and greedy thus
              want to quarantine and open up ET "for the good of mankind."
              I guess *kindness* and *tolerance* were the messages. So,
              are you a conservative or something?      -liberal troll
              want to quarantine and disect ET "for the good of mankind."
              I guess *kindness* and *tolerance* were the messages.
              \_ Well, the message I got when I was 8 was that DIRT BIKES
                 KICK ASS.
              \_ Wow, now I'm quite sad that I never got that message.  I
                 still am not an E.T. fan, but I figure I should have been
                 able to analyze it.  Damn.
           \_ I'm with you.  I don't think there was that much to get.
              Glowing finger, ugly little alien, flying bicycle.  Shrug.
              \_ I think this depends on whether or not you were into BMXing.
2006/3/7-9 [Uncategorized] UID:42136 Activity:nil
3/7     I have a write socket and a read socket.  I would like to hook
        them up so such that the read socket flows straight to the write
        socket without me having to do the copy in user space.  Is this
        \_ This may or may not be relevant to your overall problem but
           yo can look into "remote DMA" or "RDMA".
2019/04/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:March:07 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>