Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:22 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2006/2/22-27 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:41947 Activity:moderate
2/22    What's the difference between Cabernet, Merlot, Zinfandel, Pinot
        Noir, Syrah, Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, and Semillon?
        \_ Basic answer is that they are all varietals of the same species
           of grape: vitis vinifera. Wines are sometimes made from other
           species as well, for instance vitis aestivalis (Norton grape),
           but are generally not well-regarded. Vitis vinifera has its
           origins in Europe and was brought to the New World because most
           New World grapes make bad wine.
        \- er do you know they are the mostly the names of grapes varieties
           or are you asking more than that. usa: wine named after main grape.
           france: wine named after place it comes from. the usa system is a
           lot more friendly. if you want a user friendly book for just
           basic basics [i.e. to prepare you to order non-french wines]
           you get look at say the DUMMY WINE BOOK. to start out you can
           learn what is red and what is white and the rough mapping
           from grape -> french region [e.g. cab -> bordeaux, syrah -> rhone,
           pinot noir -> burgandy etc]. cab: expensive. merlot: some ok.
           zin: ass, pinot noir: good, pinot gris: good. chardonnay:
           \_ I'm quite fond of the Ravenswood Zinfandel, though there does
              seem to be a mediocre vintage every few years.  It's fairly
              cheap to, usually $6-$10 at Trader Joe's, maybe $8-$15 at
              Safeway or Andronico's.  Also, I'd highly recommend visiting
              the North Berkeley wine shop.  They always do well by me. -dans
           cheap are ass, same with chablis go with sancerre or PG instead
           if not $$$. i would not invest more than 30 min learning about
           wine. beyond the basics all you need to know is a good wine store
           [kermit lynch in berkeley]. if you have a more specific question,
           why dont you ask it, like "what is a good $15 red that is easy
           to find?".
           to find?" [safeway, rodney strong].
        \_ One thing to consider is that different regions handle different
           types of wines better than others.  I'd recommend learning a
           little bit about what grape types usually have what qualities,
           but only as a general guideline, and what sort of provenance is
           more suited for what types.  Mr. Winerjee is right about just
           bothering with the basics; don't let anyone tell you "rules", just
           try things out.  The best is if people can point out various good
           and bad aspects of certain wine types (such as how to look for
           complexity, and why and when things like color and age matter), but
           I usually steer clear of anyone who claims to be an expert.  With
           time you'll start appreciating differences and qualities more.
           One last thing--within a certain price band (varies by country)
           there's usually some correlation between quality and price, but
           once again, only as a very rough & approximate guide.  Always try
           new stuff and don't be afraid to ask, even if a crappy sommelier
           does b.s. you at some point--you'll spot this with time.  Always
           remember, it's just a drink, you have to like it.  -John
           \- Here is the 30 second list of grapes -> taste mapping:
              *cab: usually fair amount of tannin unless expensive
                   strives for full body and complex taste.
                   the king of red wines.
                          \_ Tannin has more to do with age. Some of the
                             best are extremely tannic, but the tannins
                             mellow with age.
              *merlot: fruitier and lighters than cab
              *pinot noir: less ambitious than cab but less tannin so
                          more likely to be good for cheep
                          \_ More likely than *what* to be good for cheap?
                             Cab, maybe. Any other wine, probably not.
                          \_ Most likely to be non-repugnant for cheap. Least
                             likely to be good for cheap.
                          \_ Pinot is less likely to be good for cheap.
              *syrah/shiraz: i have nothing to say
                          \_ Popular Rhone varietal along with grenache
                             and mourvedre. Makes outstanding wine.
              geweurtz,*riesling: sweet
              sancerre/*pinot gris: watery ... i dont mean that in a bad way.
                                   esp since i like spicy food
              *zin: spicy. i dont like zins. doesnt go well with the food i
                          like. yes i have had some good zins.
                          \_ This is the typical wine for Italian food.
                                  \- I prefer THE POWER OF BAROLO but that
                                     is beyond the price of this thread.
                             The good ones are better alone or with
                             cheese than with food.
                             \_ Also goes well with grilled meats and BBQ.
                                There are a lot of bad ones out there though..
              *chardonnay: good ones are crispy and dryish but cheep ones
                          i think are not to my taste. i'd rather drink the
                          even cheeper pinot gris.
                          the king of white wines.
              I would try a $12-$20 bottle of each of the 7 *ed wines
              and that should give you a representative sense of each.
              I wouldnt worry about the varieties until you decide how
              serious you want to get about wine (time and money).
              n.b. i would rather drink fruit juice than wine but i feel
              obligated to order when i go to restaurants with my friends.
              and i suppose it's good to be able to bring something
              reasonable to a dinner party. BTW, i think most wines can
              be described with this vocabulary: full/med/no body, yes/no
              tanin, sweet or not sweet, high/med/low fruity, spicy aka
              is it a zin, dry or wet. most of the people using words like
              nutty, buttery, raspberry, guava, choclate, leather etc
              have their head -> ass. you should learn about cheej not wine.
              \_ I had a Toad Hollow pinot the other day.  I couldn't place
                 the nose, but my roommate did.  Rotten Oranges.  It's not all
                 bullshit.
              \_ If you're feeling cheap, Trader Joe's has $3-$7 bottles of
                 most of the above types. When you're ready to try quality,
                 visit Vino in Rockridge or on Piedmont and plan to spend
                 $12 to $20 for decent examples. --erikred
                 \- i've had decent table wine in france for $4-5 but here
                    i think bottles in that range just taste sort of
                    generic (or bad).
                    \_ Generally speaking, you're playing with fire in the
                       $4-$5 a bottle range of wine, but you do get lucky from
                       time to time.  Nonetheless, what you just said flys
                       completely in the face of conventional wisdom and
                       actual events.  French table wine is shit.  It's so bad
                       that the French prefer cheap Californian wine to it.
                       This happened on such a large scale that the French
                       government had to impose massive import duties on cheap
                       California wine so French table winemakers wouldn't go
                       out of business. -dans
              \_ Were you ever really into comic books?  Did you ever have
                 three hour debates about the merits of various minor
                 characters in the X-men universe?  Wine "people" are like
                 that, only they're adults and frequently drunk.
                 \_ But you know what's funny?  Every discussion on the motd
                    having to do with wine ends up as a flame war about wine
                    dorks, and yet if someone had instead posted a highly
                    technical question about an X-man, it would be seriously
                    debated for three screens with no one pointing out how
                    dorky it is.
                 \_ You forgot one other distingiushing characteristic.  As
                    comic dorks age, they realize that a better use of their
                    comic collection is to keep it in good condition and sell
                    it, ending up with a net profit.  Wine dorks on the other
                    hand, drink up their stupid and expensive hobby. Which
                    is of course the point.
                    \_ Lots of wine people collect more wine than they
                       drink. However, drinking it is a lot more fun
                       than selling comics. Collecting comics will, for
                       instance, probably not get you laid. Collecting
                       wine probably will.
                       \_ I dispute that.  And I will further state that
                          people who will fuck you because of your comics
                          collection are far better lays than people who will
                          fuck you because of your wine collection. -dans
                          \_ Not 'because' of the collection, but because
                             you shared it. I wouldn't touch any chick
                             that was into comics, BTW. Yuck.
                             \_ The notion that one might have a collection of
                                *anything* he/she was really into and not
                                share it with an SO is just bizarre.  And your
                                idea that `chicks' who are into comics are
                                yucky is silly and juvenile.  I'm going to
                                make an equally ridiculous logical leap and
                                guess that you won't touch women who have
                                tatoos or dyed hair or who perform what, to
                                you, must seem like bizarre deviant sex acts
                                such as oral and anal sex.  I hope you enjoy
                                your boring, missionary sex, with your boring,
                                missionary chix. -dans
                                \_ I think you miss the entire point,
                                   which is that you tend to have a lot
                                   more fun with women after you've shared
                                   2 bottles of wine with them than after you
                                   read Sandman #1 together - in general.
                                   BTW, tattoos are nasty on women. You are
                                   right that I don't touch that. More for
                                   you, I guess.
                                   \_  Wow.  So getting drunk and having sex
                                       can be fun.  I'll be damned.  You can
                                       do that with a bottle of Old Grandad
                                       as well.
                                       \_ Not if the woman has any class
                                          or taste you can't.
                                          \_ Well, I would probably hate the
                                             women you spend time with just
                                             as much as you would hate those
                                             I spend time with.  Yes, it's
                                             a class thing.  I just think
                                             people like you are shit, and
                                             obviously it's mutual.  So fuck
                                             you.
                                             \_ You need some anger management
                                                classes. I don't hate you
                                                at all.
                                   \_ Don't be stupid.  Breaking this down into
                                      wine/comics is a useless generalization.
                                      I suspect dans' point is more along the
                                      lines of "conservative snob != fun".
                                      But naturally women that read comics
                                      never ever drink.
                 \_ I went to an Exploratorium presentation on The Science of
                    Wine. It was funny to watch all of these very nicely
                    attired and sophisticated people degenerate into lushes.
                 \_ "Wine people" are as bad as restaurant groupies.  The
                    word you are looking for is "pretentious".  And for once,
                    amazingly, I agree with psb about "head->ass".  I'd
                    even go so far as to say that "x goes well with y" is no
                    more than a general guide; if you're ever in a restaurant
                    where the sommelier looks at you funny for ordering, say,
                    red with fish (or for any reason), leave.  -John
                    \- good sommaliers have come up with some neat pairings
                       and recommendations. but that's true of more than just
                       wine and food ... like pears go well with some cheejes,
                       chocolate and orange is a a classic combination,
                       chocolate and thyme is not. i can both think over
                       cooking a good steak is a waste and you have poor
                       taste or order such well done, yet support your right
                       "have it your way".
                 \_ The short chain organic molecules in wine do combine over
                    time to create the esters and phenols that create the
                    distrinctive smells of different foods. It is not just
                    your imagination if you smell leather or chocolate in
                    a wine, especially a well aged one, the exact same chemicals
                    that help give something its distinctive odor might be in
                    your wine. Don't assume that everyone has their head -> ass
                    time to create the esters, phenols and aldehydes that create
                    time to create the esters, phenols & aldehydes that create
                    the smells of different foods. It is not just your
                    time to create the esters, phenols and aldehydes that
                    create the smells of different foods. It is not just your
                    imagination if you smell leather or chocolate in a wine,
                    especially a well aged one, the exact same chemicals that
                    help give something its distinctive odor might be in your
                    wine. Don't assume that someone has their head -> ass
                    just because you cannot smell them. -ausman
                    \_ Dogs have much larger sections of their brains devoted to
                       smell than humans.  It would be amusing to train a dog
                       to distinguish all these subtle wine distinctions.
                    \_ Dogs have much larger sections of their brains devoted
                       to smell than humans.  It would be amusing to train a
                       dog to distinguish all these subtle wine distinctions.
                       to smell than humans. It would be amusing to train a dog
                       to distinguish all these subtle wine distinctions.
                       I think it would not be too hard to modify the drug dog
                       training for this purpose.
                    \_ Everyone recognizes different smells in wine, you are
                       absolutely correct.  The "head->ass" part comes from
                       my subjective observation that people who pontificate
                       about how marvelous wine xyz is because it smells like
                       the orgasmic fart of the black-striped Angolan bog
                       fungus or whatever tend to be pompous morons.  "Wine
                       people".  -John
                       \- jim ausman: there is a difference between
                          "ok i can see why you say this has a hint of
                          raspberry" after tasting something and taking
                          two of those head->ass adjective vectors and
                          using them as a basis to pick a wine. i'm saying
                          those little cards in stores that talk about how
                          one wine has a hint of nutmeg and chocolate and
                          cherry and other has a soupcon of lemon zest
                          crossed with clover honey is not useful. more
                          useful would be a 10 word vocabular that actually
                          mean something. maybe a good analogy is to
                          crayola. i understand you need to go beyond
                          RGB and "blue green" to describe some colors.
                          and you do get a sense of what color is meant
                          by peach or salmon or olive green ... but do you
                          have any fucking clue what color "raw umber" is?
                          ok tnx. (raw umber is the color of "dirt").
                          \_ There is no "raw umber" crayon; it was
                             "burnt umber," and it's been discontinued.
                             I agree that the cards in wine stores aren't
                             useful to someone who isn't a wine snob, but
                             certain wine snobs can quite accurately
                             determine a specific wine in blind taste
                             tests, so there's clearly something there. -tom
                             \- are you such an authority on crayons you
                                you didnt even bother to google this?
                                BTW, wine snobbery is about attitude, not
                                resolving power.
                                \_ tom -> smacked
2006/2/22-23 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:41948 Activity:moderate
2/22    How do you like to prepare your steak? I'll start:
        \_ marinate it in cheap cabernet for a whole week.
           tender and tasty. Yummmm
        \_ Seasoned with Crazy Salt, paprika, garlic powder, grilled, then
           liberally doused with butter and lemon. Scrumptious.
        \_ Coarse Sea Salt, Coarse Black Pepper, oil the grill, grill to
           medium rare.  Keep it simple.
        \_ I just had an awesome filet done in balsamic vinegar.  Yum. -John
           \_ how long do you guys marinate it for? I had this awsome
              steak that melted in the mouth one time. The waitress said
              they age their steak in wine barrels for a few months.
              I wonder what kind of marinate they used.
              \_ Perhaps you misheard or she misspoke.  If you 'aged' steak in
                 a marinade for months you would have only putrid sludge.
                 I'm thinking she might have meant 'dry aged' meat.  Getting
                 back to your original question: Depends on size.  Steaks
                 typically 12-36 hours.  Larger roasts, 24-72 hrs.
                 \_ I have seen the results of marinating the head of a moose
                    in a 55 gallon drum of water for months, and it was indeed
                    putrid sludge.
2006/2/22-27 [Recreation/House] UID:41949 Activity:low
2/22    Hello, I have a tatami problem. I bought 2 tatami mats from
        Marukai and I really liked them. I liked them so much that I
        decided to buy a third one to cover up a 6'x9' area. The first
        two I bought came in a box together and are soft and comfy
        to step on. They're also heavier to lift. The third one however,
        didn't come with a box and is really light weight, and feels
        kind of hard and not as comfy to step on. I should have bought
        them in pairs. No return/exchange policy. Is this tatami
        inconsistency normal?
        \_ If you didn't get any answer in 24 hours, why do you expect
           to get answer now?
           \_ Because I'm hoping a Japanese csua'er would know something
              about it. It seems like no one knows/cares these days.
              \_ Quick note: If you actually have time to worry about this
                 kind of bullshit then you probably have too much time
                 on your hands. I realize the Japanese fall into this
                 category (the Japanese are weird people who obssess over
                 everything, which is why their cars are generally more
                 reliable), but I think this is taking it a bit too far.
                 \_ Get over yourself, already; honestly, how much time does it
                    really take to think about this stuff?  2 short
                    discussions about home decoration don't amount to all that
                    much time, guy.
        \_ what is tatami?
           \_ Each mat is 3'x6' and you can lay them out any way you
              want, the constraint is you don't want 4 corners to touch
              each other since that is inauspicious. The following is an
              example, you can build up any size you want with the
              above constraint, recursively:

              2 tatami  3 tatami  4.5 tatami
              +---+     +-+---+   +-+---+
              +---+     | +---+   | +-+-+
              +---+     +-+---+   +-+-+ |
                                  +---+-+
              6'x6'     6'x9'     9'x9'
           \_ Japanese for "rug", basically a soft mat. I don't even know why
              someone would post this, it's a non-issue.
              \_ More like Japanese for "floor." It's a soft mat that covers
                 parts of the floor you wouldn't want to wear your shoes on:
                 http://www.garden-gifts.com/images/tatamiroom.JPG
                 In a Japanese home, tatami rooms are traditionally where
                 you'd sleep. They usually come in 3'x6' rectangles.
                 \_ Do you mean 1X2 meters, or are these American made, or
                    do the Japanese use feet?  I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely
                    curious to know if there's a non-SI unit being used in
                    Japan.  The distiction is non-trivial if you're laying
                    out a big floor.
                    \_ Tatami mats predate SI.  Traditionally they were
                       0.5 ken by 1 ken; the exact length of a "ken" varied
                       by time and place, though, so tatami sizes varied
                       too.  Several slightly different sizes are still
                       in use.  One common size is 0.91m x 1.82m, which
                       happens to be almost exactly 3' x 6'.
                       \_ I am in awe of your knowledge of Japanese metrological
                          history.
                 \_ eh, ok. So why don't they just use carpets?
                    \_ 1) Tradition, 2) tatami mats are easier to integrate
                       with the floor so that they don't move, and 3) tatami
                       mats are usually much easier to clean than carpet.
2006/2/22-23 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Recreation/Music] UID:41950 Activity:nil
2/22    Does anyone know the name of this piece of orchestral music?  It starts
        with something like this:
        Key: C-maj, 3/4 (probably)
                C--- --BC DCBA | C-CA C--- BAED | G----
        I heard it while watching the Olympics mixed ice dancing on Sunday
        around 2-3pm.  The team was wearing purple and they got a perfect 6.0.
        Thanks.
        \_ From your transcription, it could be Ravel's Bolero, but that's not
           in 3/4. --scotsman
           \_ Actually, it is in 3, like most bolero's.
              \_ Sorry, I'm smoking the crack.  Too much Puccini on the brain.
                 You're right. --scotsman
              \- ravel's bolero is a good guess. it is in 3/4 and C-maj.
                 you could pick out the key but had never heard Bolero?
                 that's funky. do any of you know the ADRIAN HO/Bolero
                 episode in 238 Evans Hall [old CSUA office]?
        \- i do not watch the olympics but if in 3/4 time may be one of
           the "standard" competition watlzes for ice skating.
           some of them appear to be here:
   http://skatersworld.org/DeskTopDefault.aspx?MediaTitle=blues.mp3&tabid=256
           i dont remember well enough to "name that tune" by "sight reading"
           the motd. oh it looks like the REVENSBURGER is the STANDARD at
           TORINO. i think that is really crappy piece. my competitive
           ice skating associate has ceased associating with me otherwise
           i could ask i suppose. ok tnx.
2006/2/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41951 Activity:nil
2/21    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060220/od_nm/germany_drugs_dc
        Description of the URL is self explanitory (Germany Drugs).
2006/2/22-23 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:41952 Activity:high
2/21    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060222/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush
        Bush to support renewable energy. He's not such a bad
        guy afterall                            -environmentalist
        \_ are you dumb or what? he uses this small gesture to disguise
           the fact that he is pushing for 1. nuclear power 2. provide
           all sort of tax break / environmental regulation waivers to
           coal/oil industry.
           \_ why don't you just admit that you hate Republicans you
              hippie king
              \_ i just don't hate people who can careless about environment
                 and then blaming China and India for everything.
           \_ nukular power is good -environmentalist
              \_ where are you going dump the waste?  we will soon running
                 out of Indian Reservations to dump them :p
                 \_ dump it into the ocean
                 \_ better dumped somewhere and contained than pumped into the
                    atmosphere like our other current energy sources.
                    \_ it can not be contained.  that is the problem.
                        those concrete canister last about 50-60 years
                        before it start to leak... and the half life of
                        those materials is... 10,000 years?
                        There are ways to cut down emissions.  But it
                        requires CONSERVATION... If you are not willing to
                        change your lavish life style, then, you are not
                        an environmentalist.
                        \_ You understand what halflife means right?  Not the
                           video game.  Something with a long half life is
                           going to emit very little radiation.  If the
                           half life is long enough, the radiation emitted is
                           so low it will be less than the background
                           radiation we're born into and live in from the
                           natural environment.  I'm not afraid of something
                           with a 10,000 year halflife.  It's the short stuff
                           that will poison and kill you.  You need to
                           understand what you're talking about before going
                           off about what is safe and not.  Feel free to dump
                           the 10,000 year stuff in my back yard.
                \_ Bury it on the moon!  Space:1999 10 years late!
           \_ What's wrong with pushing for nuclear power?  Nuclear power
              is better than most of the other alternatives; its main
              problem is Cold War-era paranoia.
              \_ waste.  There is no safe way to dump the waste and right now
                 it's being stored right at the Nuclear Power Plants
                 everywhere.  When people talk about nuclear energy being
                 "cheaper,"  I often wonder if they taken account of the
                 Yaka Mountain facilities and the cost of transporting
                 waste to that location.
                 \_ What is this Yaka of which you speak?  ;-)  Anyway, the
                    planet is a big place.  There are lots of safe places,
                    they're just hard/expensive to get to.
                    \_ due to long half-life, almost nowhere is safe except
                       earth's core.
                       \_ Due to long half life, almost anywhere is safe.  But
                          since we know it isn't safe it therefore must have
                          a short halflife.
                          Anything unsafe has a short half life by definition.
                          The earth's core... indeed!
                 \_ 1. If people weren't so paranoid about weaponization,
                       we could use breeder reactors which would be much less
                       wasteful.
                    2. Other conventional sources of power have waste too.
              \- i think the problem assessing nuclear power costs is the
                 widely differing views on how small the probability of
                 "something really bad" happening is ... since the govt
                 rather than private insurance will kick in if something
                 goes drastically wrong. you may be able to detemine say
                 coal fired power plan will cost $x in enviro damange and
                 health costs and increased mortality at emission level y
                 which costs $z. but in the case of nuclear power there are
                 some reasonably bounded costs for say security and waste
                 disposal but part of the cost is the expectation value of
                 p(really_bad_event) * cost(RBE) ...  and i suspect there
                 isnt a lot of agreement of p(RPE), especially if it is
                 isnt a lot of agreement of p(RBE), especially if it is
                 affect by human motivation and not just accident
                 probability. OK TNX.
              \_ Uranium supplies are not infinite.  Breeder/Thorium reactors
                 are pipe dreams and no commercial versions exist.
                 Reprocessing fuel means lots of plutonium floating around.
                 Also the fallout (pun intended) from one going boom is really
                 really bad, unlike coal fired plants which have a very bad,
                 but fixed and relatively well known environmental impact.
2006/2/22-23 [Politics/Domestic] UID:41953 Activity:moderate
2/21    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060222/ap_on_bi_ge/economy
        Leading economic indicators rise. Bushenomics works.
        Time for liberal critics to shut the fuck up.
        \_ Still no wage growth.  Woops!
        \_ WTF. decifit spending always gives a short term economic boom.
           Further, baby boomers are at their salary/wage peak right now
           (right before they start to retires)... of course things are
           somewhat rosy right now...
           \_ why don't you just admit that you hate Republicans you
              hippie king
              \_ Okay, I hate Republicans. That doesn't change the fact that
                 Chimp King is running the country into the ground.
                 \_ "I hate <opposing party members>.  That doesn't change the
                     fact that <childish name for opposing party leader> is
                     running the country into the ground."
                    \_ Speak truth. If it is true, it doesn't matter whom
                       I hate.
                       \_ Of course it does.  Why must the obvious be spelled
                          out?  It always ruins the joke: you believe the
                          country is being run into the ground *because* you
                          hate the opposing party.  If your party was doing
                          the *exact* same things you'd find a way to
                          rationalise and defend it.  Sheesh.
                          \_ I am not the previous poster, but I am an
                             independent and I think the GOP is running the
                             country into the ground economically. A negative
                             nationwide savings rate is the quickest and
                             surest way to impoverishment.
                             \_ I agree that a negative savings rate is bad.
                                Which GOP policy made that happen and what
                                policy change do you propose to change that?
                                \- if the "country is run into the ground"
                                   but you can go to private hospitals, send
                                   your children to private schools and
                                   private universities and get private
                                   insurance in case of hurricanes and hire
                                   private security, and you get all your books
                                   and DVS at AMAZONG or netflicks and subscribe
                                   to your own magazines, you care a lot less
                                   about the deterioriating infrastructure.
                                   also richer people are better able to hedge
                                   against dollar falling. although i have
                                   fairly little symphathy for either yuppies
                                   making good money who are spending beyond
                                   their means or people with more modest
                                   incomes who do as well ... but i do kind
                                   of wonder what will happen when the shit
                                   hits the fan [after the gop dupes them into
                                   supporting repeal of the "death tax" or
                                   under funded school voucher programs].
                                   and DVS at AMAZONG or netflicks and
                                   subscribe to your own magazines, you care a
                                   lot less about the deterioriating infra-
                                   structure. also richer people are better
                                   able to hedge against dollar falling.
                                   although i have fairly little symphathy for
                                   either yuppies making good money who are
                                   spending beyond their means or people with
                                   more modest incomes who do as well ... but
                                   i do kind of wonder what will happen when
                                   the shit hits the fan [after the gop dupes
                                   them into supporting repeal of the "death
                                   tax" or under funded school voucher programs
                                   ]. i think maybe the gop will institute
                                   "slavery-light".
                                   \_ ok that was uhm, long, but what exactly
                                      was the GOP policy that is causing people
                                      to not save and what policy would you
                                      suggest to encourage savings?
                                   \_ They already did. See bankruptcy "reform"
                                      \- oh, i was more thinking of this plan
                                         to admit aliens with strings attached.
                                         like "you can stay in this country
                                         as long as you are doing a shitty
                                         job for sub-mkt wages and non-legal
                                         working conditions".
2006/2/22-27 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:41954 Activity:nil
2/22    Can someone give me a link to a ISO of opensolaris
        that I can burn and boot on my PC?  thanks
        \_ Opensolaris distributions are still pretty much for developers only.
           If you want Solaris for your PC, download Solaris 10/x86 from Sun
           ISO(s) from Sun.
        \_ The closest thing to an official ISO for openSolaris is
           sxcr. You have to register w/ sun to d/l it:
           link:tinyurl.com/nswzr (javashoplm.sun.com)
           One of my friends on the openSolaris team suggested that
           you try nexenta instead
2006/2/22 [Recreation/Dating] UID:41955 Activity:nil
2/22    I know a 20 year old girl who is a deeply committed Christian
        and has 30I cup breasts.  She rarely meets anyone
        bigger than her (ratio-wise).  How can she
        justify premarital sex with her boyfriend while
        simultaneously staying faithful to Lord Jesus Christ?
2006/2/22-27 [Uncategorized] UID:41956 Activity:nil
2/22    Holy shit, Hollywood heist in real life:
        http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2053858,00.html
        Weird that a single employee can be the point of failure.
        \_ you mean they recently watched Firewall w/Harrison Ford, right
           did anyone actually see that?
           \_ More like Bandits, with Bruce Willis, Billy Bob Thornton:
              http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0219965
2006/2/22-27 [Computer/Theory] UID:41957 Activity:nil
2/22    Quantum computer works best switched off -http://csua.org/u/f25
2006/2/22-23 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:41958 Activity:nil 93%like:41970
2/22    http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20060222/hl_hsn/momsgeneticsmighthelpproducegaysons
        More evidence that genetics and God create gay people.
2006/2/22-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41959 Activity:moderate
2/22    Can anyone tell me why Bush wants to outsource the ports to
        a company from another country? What's the reason behind it?
        What is the advantage for doing so?
        \_ sounds more to me like that the ports are already outsourced by
           foreign counteries.  This was a case of one foreign company selling
           out to a company HQ'd in a country that had a few folks unhappy
           \- i dont think this is really a hands on personal decision.
              it was a cmte decison by Committee on Foreign Investment in
              the US. i suppose it is possible BUSH let them know what he
              wanted, but i dunno if that has really been established.
              this is controversial because the country is arab, not foreign.
              foreign companies were already involved running other parts
              of the ports/martine infrastructure.
              \_ His threatened veto of any bar to it belies the "not hands on"
                 \- well that's after the fact. that can be construed as
                    backing the cmte rather than desiring a particular
                    outcome. perhaps a legitmate case of defending executive
                    privilage.
                    \_ Yes, it's after the fact.  But that, combined with them
                       bypassing the required 45 day investigation period
                       suggests a concerted effort that would depend on an
                       executive branch "understanding".  Yes, this is
                       conjecture, but it runs along their standard MO.
                       http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/22/politics/22port.html
        \_ UAE only supplied two 9/11 hijackers, so they only get ports.
           Saudi Arabia sent 15 hijackers, so they get Abrams tanks, F-15s,
           and quality time with Dubya. http://csua.org/u/f22 (whitehouse.gov)
           \_ Their banks also provided money to the hijackers and stopped any
              investigation to follow the money trail through UAE.  There are a
              lot of conservatives like me upset about this.
              \_ Ok, Mr. Responsible Conservative Guy, so which GOP candidate
                 are you planning on backing for '08?  Just curious.
                 \_ Anybody but Bush!
                    \_ Do you mean Jeb?
                 \_ I don't see any '08 candidates of any party worth looking
                    at twice. -Mr. RCG
                    \_ Reasonable, informed, people should always vote, and
                       shold always care.  Even if you're a "lesser evil"
                       voter, shouldn't you care that they get someone who
                       can beat the other party?  Of if you really hate them,
                       you should pick a Dem to support.  Reasonable,
                       non-partisan people ignoring party primaries is how you
                       end up with assholes like George Bush being a major
                       party candidate.   I will forever regret not registering
                       as a Republican in 2000 so that I could vote against
                       that bastard twice.
                       \_ I'm sure that would have made a difference.  Anyway,
                          I think you're missing the above person's point
                          which is this is early 06 and the election isn't
                          until late '08.  We don't even know who is running
                          so how could anyone have an intelligent opinion?
                 \_ If Colin Powell could be convinced to run, I would vote
                    for him. My 2d choice would be McCain. I voted for him
                    in the 2000 primary. If the GOP runs some neocon nutcase
                    and the Democrats run someone reasonable like Lieberman
                    or Clark, I'd probably vote Democrat for the first time
                    in my life. -gopvoter
                    \_ You don't want someone more moderate and not in the
                       pocket of the insurance industry like Senator Clinton?
                       \_ I'm pretty much center of the road, so I could
                          bring myself to vote for a moderate democrat,
                          esp. considering that a moderate democrat prob.
                          would not have expanded the fed gov as much as
                          BUSHCO has.
                          Re Sen. Clinton: I don't think I can vote for her
                          b/c I think her whole moderate stance is a just a
                          PR stunt and that she would go left if elected. I
                          am also just too closed minded to think that a woman
                          could lead troops into battle a la President Wash-
                          ington [except perhaps Princess Leia :-)]. I know
                          that no modern President has had to or could effect-
                          ively do this (except maybe Ike), but it is still a
                          factor in my voting. -gopvoter
                          \_ Here's a thought experiment: Imagine that they
                             both are leading identical countries, with
                             identical armies so that the only difference is
                             leadership, and imagine a war with Thatcher
                             leading one side and George W. Bush leading the
                             other.  I'm not saying Clinton could be a good
                             commander in chief, but it would be hard to be
                             worse at that particular job than the lazy, lying
                             ex-cheerleader AWOL know-nothing who presently has
                             the job.
                             \_ As much as I love Maggie, the guys on the Brit
                                destroyer the Argentinians sunk might
                                disagree with you.
                             \_ I understand on a rational level that some
                                women can perform the duties of CiC better
                                that most of the men who have held that
                                position. That isn't the problem for me.
                                I still have this vision of the President
                                as a man who, if necessary, can walk on to
                                the battle field and defend this nation w/
                                his life. I just can't bring my self to see
                                this as the proper sort of thing for a
                                woman.
                                \_ Looks like you'd better start pushing
                                   for a Jesse Ventura presidential bid.
                                   \_ I prefer Ahnuld, but The Body would
                                      be okay w/ me.
                                \_ "When two tribes go to war..."
                                \- and BUSH and CHENEY fit your vision of
                                   a CiC who can walk on to the battle
                                   field [sic] and defend this nation with
                                   his life? wow, you have quite an
                                   imagination. --motd vet for truth
                                   \_ Bush2 does not fit my vision of a
                                      proper president (I voted for McCain
                                      in the 2000 primary and would have
                                      liked the Democrats to have nominated
                                      Clark in 2004). Furthermore, I said
                                      that fitness as the CiC was one factor
                                      in my voting. Between two male candi-
                                      dates, this factor is not dispositive.
                                      It only really affects my decision to
                                      vote for a woman for the presidency.
                                      I'd rather abstain than vote for a
                                      woman candidate b/c I can't get over
                                      the feeling that women are not fit
                                      to be the CiC.
        \_ Aren't these guys heavy Carlyle Group investors?
        \_ I thought they aren't actually running the ports just leasing some
           terminals ...
           \- hola fyi ucb dept political science prof steve weber will
              be talking about this on the radio at 9pm on thr.
        \_ Polls don't matter, I read it on the motd.
2006/2/22-27 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:41960 Activity:nil
2/22    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/germany_manure_dc
        URL self explanitory. Heil Shit Eating German John!!!
        \_ What kind of wine pairs well with pig manure?
        \_ shit eating? what the fuck is your problem? seriously?
2006/2/22-27 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:41961 Activity:nil
2/22    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060222/bs_nm/autos_honda_hybrid_dc
        Honda to sell more low cost hybrids. Uh oh Toyota, you are
        fucked this time, for sure!
        \_ "The newspaper said the Fit hybrid would have fuel economy
           comparable to that of the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, which the
           auto makers advertise in Japan as getting around 35-36 km to a liter
           (82-84 miles per gallon)."  That's a bit of a jump from the US
           numbers (which are already inflated).  Is that all just emissions
           differences?
           comparable to that of the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, which
           the auto makers advertise in Japan as getting around 35-36 km to
           a liter (82-84 miles per gallon)."  That's a bit of a jump from
           the US numbers (which are already inflated).  Is that all just
           emissions differences?
           \_ Maybe the jdm version are lighter b/c they don't have air bags,
              electrical seats, windows, &c.?
        \_ Phear my reduced size electric motor paired with 1-Liter gas engine!
2006/2/22-27 [Health/Disease/General] UID:41962 Activity:nil
2/22    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060222/hl_nm/alzheimers_decline_dc
        Education delays Alzheimers. Better stay in school! In other
        news, Ronald Reagan's rapid progression of Alzheimer was
        most likely caused by his lack of education.
        \_ Yeah, but too much education wastes your life away so you don't want
           to remember it anyway.   -bitter phd
        \_ Stop trying to troll ilya, he's not around anymore.
           \_ Who is ilya and is he like a typical Republican--
              hard core, stubborn, self-righteous, and worships Reagan?
              \_ Do a search on "ilyas" in kais motd.  I think you'll agree
                 that the word "typical" doesn't belong in any sentence that
                 has that guy's name in it.
              \_ No, he's hard core, stubborn, and self-righteous, but it
                 stems from a violent, albeit somewhat understandable since he
                 grew up in Communist Russia, suspicion and loathing for all
                 forms of government social programs.
              \_ Yawn.  "Who are you and are you like the typical <opposition
                 party member>-- hard core, stubborn, self-righteous, and
                 worships <recent President and member of opposition party>?"
                 Thank you for playing the "Young Motd Troll Game".  D-.
2006/2/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:41963 Activity:nil
2/22    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/brf_toilet_paper_death
        Man killed over toilet paper. Are these men Republicans?
        \_ Sounds to me like they're gay, so I doubt it.
           \_ Cuz there are no gay Republicans.  Unh uh... nothing to see here,
              Mr. Mehlman.
           \_ He needed TP for his bunghole.
              \_ This just confirms a bit of wisdom I alreadly know from
                 painful experience: Never, ever, under any circumstances, go
                 to Florida.  Fucked up shit happens there with startling
                 regularity. -dans
2006/2/22-24 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:41964 Activity:nil
2/22    Is there somewhere I can search to find out property developments
        (size, residential/commercial, estimated construction time, etc)?
        The huge plot of land across my condo used to have Kinkos,
        Marie Calendar, etc. Within a month, they all moved somewhere
        else and the whole place is vacated. I'm wondering what they're
        planning to do, and for how long. Thanks.
        \_ Try your local city hall.  Likely in the basement, mind the
           stairs.
        \_ Look through the planning division website of your city.  Some city
           have site with enough information so you don't have to actually
           go to city hall.
2006/2/22-24 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41965 Activity:nil
2/22    Iraqi civil war, here we come? :(
        http://csua.org/u/f21 (juancole.com)
        \_ Sadly, Mr. Cole is quite well-informed and knowledgeable about
           this situation. I say "sadly" because I would prefer to think that
           will not come to pass. but I know that he's right.
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:22 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>