Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:18 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/2/18-20 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:41916 Activity:nil
2/18    I just replace a bunch of regular bulbs with energy efficient
        bulbs. Now I have a bunch of old bulbs that I don't ever plan
        to use. What is a non-wasteful thing to do with them?
        \_ give them to someone or put them away so you're not in the
           dark when the new ones break.  </commonsense>
        \_ Break them open with a hammer and smoke meth with them. </nonsense>
        \_ do this:
2006/2/18-23 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:41917 Activity:nil
2/18    Back in 2000 I bought a few 23W energy efficient bulbs that
        output 100W, and a few 16W bulbs that output 60W. The
        (output/energy used) ratio was about 4. Today I bought a
        few more bulbs from Walmart...  7W bulbs that output 40W,
        which has the (output/energy used) ratio of over 5.
        Are new bulbs getting more and more efficient?
        \_ no.
        \_ The "equivalent to XX watts" is an estimate by correlating an
           average N watt incandescent bulb to the number of lumens it outputs.
           It's mostly just rounding error, I'd guess.  It would be nice if
           they'd start putting lumens in bigger numbers, but I guess we've
           got as much chance of switching to that as switching to m and km.
        \_ is your understanding of these bulbs that they put out more
           energy than they take in? please give me the address of the magical
           unicorn that gave these to you. -ali.
           \_ Holy cow. You are such a pedantic prick. And your tone makes
              you sound like a wanna be smart ass and above all else,
              a big jerk. Please work on your tone and personality. You
              still haven't gotten a PhD not because you're not smart,
              but because people don't like to work with fucking pricks.
              \_ obGoogle, looks like he graduated.
           \_ I'm the op and the answer is, obviously, no. You put in X,
              you get out X. The problem with regular incandescent bulbs
              is that much of the X is useless to you. I define
              usefulness as viewable spectrum, and uselessness as heat,
              UV, etc. Energy efficient bulbs have higher usefulness
              over uselessness ratio.
           \_ Duh, they're from the North Pole.  Everyone knows unicorns have
              nothing to do with infinite energy.  It's an elf thing.
        \_ Probably.  When we switch to LED bulbs the multiple will be even
           better.  All this shows you is how amazingly inefficient
           incandescent bulbs are in producing usable light.
           \_ do LEDs have the obnoxious flicker or any other negatives you
              get from fluorescents?
2006/2/18-20 [Computer/HW/IO] UID:41918 Activity:nil
2/17    What's the best wireless keyboard to get? Looking for something
        that's compact and quiet. I bought the Gyration keyboard/mouse
        combo and it's a total piece of shit. The first package I bought
        was completely broken. The second package had a working mouse
        but the keyboard wouldn't respond. Upon researching I found
        out there's a whole bad batch they shipped out and many people
        have gone through 2-3 Gyration keyboards. Total piece of shit.
2006/2/18-19 [Finance/Investment] UID:41919 Activity:kinda low
2/17    George Soros is a loser. He made big money just one time but has
        made countless mistakes afterwards. Anyways, he predicts
        a huge recession in 2007 that'll make the late 80s
        recession look tame. Let's see if he's wrong. Again.
        \_ Let's assume he's right. What does he want us to do? What
           can we do? What's the best way to profit?
           \_ Buy land with access to fresh water, and lots of guns.
           \_ short GOOG!!! short everything!!1!
           \_ He wants you to take your money out of the US to make it a
              self fulfilling prophecy so he can make another few billion
              in exchange for providing no return value to the world.
           \_ If you sell all your stocks and buy I-Bonds or something
              like that, you should be able to ride it out fine.
        \_ nah soros made big money quite a few times.
2006/2/18-23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41920 Activity:low
        "It's apocalyptic out there. Life has definitely gotten worse for"
        Iraqis, said Maj. Curtis Strange, 36, of Mobile, Ala.
        Mission Accomplished!
        \_ Curtis Strange, huh?  Ok, I'll bite: What is
           Major Strange comparing to and was he around during the Hussein
           era to compare?  I suspect he was in Alabama at the time not
           studying the socioeconomic situation across the Iraqi demographic
           spectrum.  Then again, maybe he's entirely right and we should
           pull out, and reinstate Hussein.  Things should get better right
           away.  He's a man who knows how to put down an insurgency.
              \_ Okey dokey!  Propose a different solution and we'll discuss
                 it.  Thanks for contribution nothing.
                 \_ And what exactly have you contributed, bitch?
                    \_ A list of still unanswered questions that directly
                       pertains to the OP and a clean mouth.  You?  Nada.
                 \_ I already told you my plan. It starts with impeaching
                    Bush and turning him and his whole war cabinat over to
                    the Wolrd Court to be tried for War Crimes. You didn't
                    the World Court to be tried for War Crimes. You didn't
                    seem to interested.
           \_ Realcities is where Knight Ridder puts their wire stories.
              Didn't you see that this from KR newspapers, from the byline?
              \_ Shrug, ok its KR.  What about my other questions?
                 \_ Maybe he's assuming that the Iraqis had a better life
                    when their town wasn't all blown up and "apocalyptic".
                    when their towns weren't all blown up and "apocalyptic".
                    Just a guess, though.
                    \_ Wow, Iraq is just one town?
                       \_ You do realize you're an idiot, right?
                          \_ Hard to face your own incompetence, huh?
                             \_ No, you're still the idiot. Just briefly,
                                it is within the realm of possibility that
                                Maj. Strange knows a bit more about the Iraqi
                                situation and the extent of it than you do,
                                but a news article can only be so long, and
                                the major has no real input on which of his
                                sound bites make it into the article. BTW, it
                                makes you sound real intelligent to suggest
                                the only two options are pulling out or
                                reinstating Saddam.
                                \_ Umm.. Can't you read?  I never
                                   suggested that, you're freakin' out on
                                   the wrong guy.  I just snarked about
                                   the town thing.  Sheesh.  If you wanted
                                   to respond to the binary post, you need
                                   to correctly format your post so
                                   everyone knows who you're responding
                       \_ there.  fixed.  the grammar police strike and ignore
                          all contextual content.  yay! -!pp
2006/2/18-20 [Consumer/CellPhone] UID:41921 Activity:nil
2/18    Is it possible to have 2 cell phones with the same number? I want
        to get a Treo, but I don't want to have to lug it around when I'm
        not at work, so I'd like to use my current, smaller phone during
        those other times. Would this be possible? Thanks.
        \_ No, but most (all?) cell phone providers will let you change
           between them from the website. I know Verizon does this.
        \_ Of course it is.  You need a GSM provider who'll issue you a
           second chip.  I don't know whether American ones do this, but
           mine in Europe charges about $40 for it.  -John
           \_ I was going to suggest this too, but, like John, am uncertain if
              American cell phone companies will do this.  Some possible
              * You may be okay swapping one sim card between two devices.
                This will work with any GSM phone/provider (i.e. Cingular or
              * There are services you can set up to allow one number to
                simultaneously ring through to multiple other numbers.  The
                one caveat to this is that, without further machinations, your
                outgoing caller id will be that of the particular phone you
                are calling with, not your unified number.
2006/2/18-23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Law/Court] UID:41922 Activity:high
2/18    Now here's an excellent reason to put a child in the SF public
        school system.
        \_ I'm going to make a prediction.  I predict that the GOP is planning
           a frontal attack on public education within the next year, and that
           talking points are being distributed through their usual channels
           in anticipation of that attack.  You can jump up and down and flame
           me, and say that's crazy now, but I'll just repost this whole thread
           in a year, when we're hearing a new proposal to phase out free
           public k-12 education in America.
           \_ So, are you anti-vouchers?  If so, what's your reasoning?
              Or, do you really believe the GOP wants to completely phase
              out free public education?  Also, if you're so sure about
              your prediction, why not sign your name? -jrleek
              \_ I am 100% pro-vouchers, and yes, I believe that the long-term
                 goal of those at the top in the GOP is the destruction of
                 all social services.
                 \_ Well, I'm with you on vouchers, but I think your fear
                    of associating your name with your prediction shows
                    that you know the prediction is BS and your belief
                    really only amounts to paranoid delusion. -jrleek
                    \_ I believe in a totally anymous motd.  Part of the
                       reason for that is that I think anonymity helps remove
                       ego from discussions.  I find claims by people like you
                       that the only reason people don't sign is cowardice
                       to be childish and stupid.  If you really care, I'll
                       just email you.  Do you care?
                       \_ I didn't say the only reason people don't sign
                          is cowardice.  I often don't sign myself, and I
                          would appreciate a completely anonymous motd, so
                          people wouldn't get "outted" by lamers.  But
                          in this case you not only made a specific
                          prediction, but bragged that you'd come back and
                          rub it in any flamer's faces when it came true.
                          This suggests that you want the "benifit" of
                          being right, but don't want to pay the "price"
                          of being wrong. That actually does sound like
                          cowardice to me.  I don't really care who you
                          are, I just suggest that if you're going to
                          "call people out" you should have the guts to
                          sign your name.  That said, I'm sure not going
                          to remember this in a year. -jrleek
        \_ okay, if i was a  poor person and my children flunked out
           of highschool i would start sueing schools for them not
           having provided special education and ruining my childs life.
           I would start sueing every school and get poor people to sue
           school after school. it's the only way for the poor to make
        \_ I want to go kill the fucking parents, piece of shit.
           \_ Yeah, me too. Evil manipulative fuckers.
        \_ Um, when did Woodside become part of San Francisco?
           \_ 1. SFUSD is a recent favorite motd target.  2. SFUSD is
              probably an easier mark with deeper pockets.
        \_ Hey, I was a frustrated youth too!  I should sue for a million
           dollars as well.
        \_ The State of California is required to provide education to
           all children. Unsurprisingly, special needs kids are not often
           catered to. It's not uncommon for those parents to sue to get
           the education their child needs. Maybe these parents took
           advantage of that or maybe not. It's not clear the what extent of
           services their child may need.
           \_ How would you ever legally decide whether a child actually
              "needs" a service? Horseback lessons? It's patently obvious
              that while all children could benefit from that, no child
              actually requires it. Same goes for a private schooling
              across the country. The school they chose had no special
              services, it was just away from home and small.
              \_ Things like that can make a big difference. With children
                 who have special needs, class size is a huge factor,
                 for instance. As someone else said below, an army of
                 therapists, doctors, teachers, and so on must all be
                 involved in deciding that a child has special needs. I
                 am surprised at the callous and uninformed responses in
                 this thread. It's possible this couple manipulated the
                 system. However, what evidence do we have of that?
                 \_ I am a bit confused.  You say "an army of therapists, etc."
                    are involved in deciding a child has special needs?  An
                    army?  11% of all students 6 to 13 receive some special
                    ed (  And
                    an army is required to certify each child?  I fail to see
                    how that army scales to 11% of the student population.
                    Ref please.
                    \_ Don't take the word 'army' literally. The point is
                       that parents can't just make this stuff up. There
                       are a lot of people involved in the process. My
                       nephew is 9 and autistic. Each year he gets evaluated
                       by at least 3-4 different people in addition to
                       his own doctors and teachers. He has probably been
                       seen by 30-40 different professionals by now. It's
                       not like his parents can just make stuff up. In fact,
                       in my experience they tend to score him as more
                       functioning than he really is, probably for a
                       combination of financial and practical reasons.
                       (It's easy for him to fake being 'normal' for an
                       hour session, but it's quite eye-opening to spend the
                       weekend with him.) One social worker can handle a
                       lot of cases, for instance, so don't worry about
                       the numbers game. Just rest assured that the government
                       (including school districts) doesn't easily cough up
                       wads of cash to any dipshit parents who claim their kid
                       has issues. From what I see, for the most part kids
                       who should be receiving services are not and not
                       the other way around.
                       \_ OK, so the "army" was just hyperbole.  Now have
                          you read the sfgate article?  There, the Woodside
                          parents are doing "'unilateral placement--enrolling
                          a child in a private school, then billing the
                          district for tuition".  IOW, they bypassed that
                       \_ OK, so the "army" was just hyperbole, and you
                          extrapolated from your experience with one nephew.
                          Now have you read the sfgate article?  There, the
                          Woodside parents are doing "'unilateral placement--
                          enrolling a child in a private school, then billing
                          the district for tuition".  IOW, they bypassed that
                          "army" and hired their own special ed expert to find
                          a prep school, and then the Woodside parents hired
                          a lawyer to sue the school district so the district
                          would pay for tuition and family travel cost to
                          visit the child in Maine.
                          a prep school in Maine.  Then the Woodside parents
                          hired a lawyer to sue the school district so the
                          district would pay for tuition and family travel
                          cost to visit the child in Maine.  In fact, according
                          to the artcle, of 3763 special ed kids who filed
                          complaints last year, the distrcits had secret
                          settlements with 90% of them.
                          cost to visit the child in Maine.  Nor does it seem
                          that the Woodside child was all that disabled.
                          Even the mother said "He's a model child".  His
                          problem?  "[H]is frustration and anxiety were so
                          high that [he could] turn to drugs...".
                          \_ Actually, I am not using just one data point.
                             I met a psychology professor whose specialty
                             is 'special education' and he referred me to
                             a private practice attorney who deals with
                             filing suits against school districts. The
                             way it works is that the district drags its
                             feet until confronted with parents who are
                             willing to do something about them. Then they
                             pay up because it's actually cheaper to pay
                             the parents than to solve the initial
                             problem. They don't do so until there has
                             been a mountain of evidence amassed against
                             them (i.e. they feel they will lose the
                             case). This is where the expert testimony and
                             evaluations come in. I don't know if these
                             parents were full of shit or not, but I am
                             appalled at the responses nonetheless.
                             \_ Did you read the article? It's obvious
                                they are full of shit. If you don't know
                                then you're an idiot.
                             \_ Why are you appalled? Did you read the
                                article? It's obvious that things like
                                horseback riding aren't needed. And in
                                this case of the small school across
                                the country, that's complete bull also.
                                From the article, the parents put the
                                kid there WITHOUT having any specific
                                reason, just the mother's whim basically.
                                If you think that's fair to the taxpayers
                                then you can fuck yourself.
                             \_ Now, 90% of complaints are settled by the
                                school districts.  It seems difficult to
                                settle 90% of the time and at the same time
                                require "a mountain of evidence amassed
                                against them".  In fact, the only way I think
                                90% settlement can be explained is if the
                                school district bends over like a cheap whore
                                on speed.
                                \_ If you don't know anything about the
                                   process then just say so.
                                   \_ Given a choice between anonymous motd
                                      assurances from someone with a vested
                                      interest in the system or sfgate,
                                      interested in the system or sfgate,
                                      I'll run with sfgate.
        \_ Thanks for posting this. What a ridiculous ass story. I bet
           that kid doesn't have a single thing wrong with him, except
           that he has a psychotic bitch of a greedy mother. No wonder
           he has "anxiety".
           \_ I know who this family is.  Is anybody prepared to terrorize
              them if I provide the name?
                \_ Do you mind if I ask how you know it's them?
              \_ I don't have the time, money, or personal bandwidth to do it,
                 but I think it would be poetic justice to bring civil suit
                 against them for extortion/theft of public services or the
                 like. -dans
                 \_ It doesn't even matter. Technically speaking you don't have
                    standing to sue anyway.
                 \_ Gee, isn't this vigilantism?
                    \_ Yup. -dans
                       \_ No vigilantism would be if you firebombed their
                          house. This is using the legal system to bring
                          about justice.
                          \_ It's vigilante use of the courts.  Of course, I
                             don't really mind this since I'm not opposed to
                             all vigilante acts (eg the Billboard LIberation
                             Front is non-violent, usually thought-provoking,
                             and makes good art).  Using the courts for
                             vigilante justice is much safer than the street
                             variety since the formal bureaucratic procedures
                             of the courts provide some level of check against
                             the chance of `bad' or unjust acts being
                             successfully completed.  Then again, there's
                             always the possibility for abuse.  Many
                             organizations (eg the RIAA) use the legal system
                             the way a corner street thug uses a gun or
                             baseball bat. -dans
              \_ So is their kid really a 'tard or just a typical
                 underachieving teen?
        \_ So how do children get certified as needing special ed?
           \_ doctor's evaluations, state and/or private, administrators,
              teachers, etc., etc.
              \_ In addition to the above, the process also hinges on an
                 advocate willing to badger and harrass. This is true both
                 for legitimate and illegitimate cases.
                 \_ It would be interesting to see what percentage of special
                    ed application is rejected.
                    \_ Probably not as many as you would think. More likely is
                       that an application without an active advocate will
                       simply be set aside.
                    \_ It's easy to get approved for 'special ed' (usually
                       just a diagnosis). It's hard to get approved for
                       special ed outside of the district and/or to get
                       money from the district to pay for additional
                       services. Also, as someone above said, without a
                       strong advocate your case will languish for years.
                       Many parents cannot afford such a person/people
                       (usually a social worker, a doctor, and an attorney).
                       Districts will otherwise practice a policy of
                       appeasement, giving in here and there over time to
                       avoid actually doing everything they should be.
                       Note that there are some good districts. I am
                       referring to the bad ones, which are most of them in
                       \- You know I think one of the "right' outcomes
                          would be for the reporters in cases like this to
                          give the names of the parties involved. Journalists
                          makes sometimes make wild claims based on the
                          "public's right to know" but often they or their
                          editors filter it through a bit of an agenda.
                          For example in union strike coverage they often
                          dont list the salaries involved. The recent
                          muscisian strike was an interesting exception.
                       \_ Now, this is what confuses me.  At first the poster
                          above says "an army of therapists, doctors, teachers,
                          and so on must all be involved in deciding that a
                          child has special needs."  Now you tell me it's
                          easy to get approved.  OK, so you say certification
                          as needing special ed is easy, it's getting approved
                          for outside resources that's hard.  But isn't the
                          original articl all about parents skipping the
                          outside special ed process altogether, and then
                          sueing afterwards for the expenses?  If the system
                          is set up so that certification to be eligible for
                          special ed is easy (your claim), and then sueing for
                          outside services rendererd is easy (sfgate's claim),
                          isn't that just asking for trouble?
                       \_ OK, so you say certification as needing special ed
                          is easy, it's getting approved for outside resources
                          that's hard.  But isn't the original articl all
                          about parents skipping the outside special ed
                          process altogether, and then sueing afterwards for
                          process altogether, and then suing afterwards for
                          the expenses?  If the system is set up so that
                          certification to be eligible for special ed is
                          easy (your claim), and then sueing for outside
                          non-preapproved services rendererd is easy (sfgate's
                          easy (your claim), and then suing for outside
                          non-preapproved services is easy (sfgate's
                          claim), isn't that just asking for trouble?
                          \_ You will only win a suit if there is evidence
                             supporting your case. You can send your kid
                             to boarding school in Switzerland and bill
                             the district for it, but you will lose unless
                             you have built a good case. Therefore, suing
                             for outside services (preapproved or not)
                             is not easy unless your case might win. It is,
                             however, easier than actually getting the school
                             district to provide those services themselves.
                             This is what the professor told me in so many
                             words. Keep asking the district for what you
                             need and let them tell you 'no'. It works out
                             better for everyone that way. If they say
                             'yes' and then half-ass it it becomes much
                             more difficult to prove that the program is
                             substandard and the school pays as much or
                             more money in the end anyway while your kid
                             fritters away in useless classes for 2-3-4-5
                             years of valuable time while the case goes
                             through the legal process. This is why many school
                             districts would rather pay kids who genuinely
                             need special help to go where they can
                             receive it. It's better for the kids and
                             cheaper/easier for the district.
2006/2/18-23 [Computer/Networking] UID:41923 Activity:low
2/18    My DSL modem's ip address is, my internal network
        behind my router is 10.0.0.x. Is there a way I can configure
        the router so I can access the DSL modem from my 10.0.0.x
        network directly without re-wiring? Static routes? I tried it
        but no much luck. I also tried changing my internal network to
        192.168.0.x, but still does not work. Thanks.
        \_ I assume this is the connectivity:
           Wall -> DSL router -> Switch(es) -> Various PCs
           If your DSL router is, and you configure your various
           PCs to be 192.168.0.x, I don't see why you can't connect to
 , your DSL router.  Can you ping it at least?
           \_ Sorry, typo, it should say "DSL modem". It is
              Wall -> DSL modem -> DSL Router -> PC.
              How do I get to my DSL modem from my PC?  If I
              connect the modem directly to my PC, I can access
              it's configuration URL, but if the router sits
              in between, I can't.
              \_ Huh.  It ought to work either way.  What happens if you run
                 "traceroute -n" from the PC?  Do you see
                 a response from  What about "traceroute -n
       "?  (On Windows, use "tracert -d" instead.)
              \_ From your description it sounds like you have the
                 following setup:
        Wall <-> DSL Modem <- 192.168.x net -> DSL Router <- 10.x net -> PCs
                 I'm assuming that eth0 on the DSL Router is connected
                 to the net and eth1 on the DSL Router is
                 connected to the net. I'm also assuming that
                 the PCs and the DSL Modem are on separate switches (or
                 hubs) or that you are using a cross over cable for the
                 connection btwn the DSL Modem and the DSL Router.
                 If so, you should probably have eth0 on the DSL Router
                 configured to something like Make sure that
                 the DSL Router's default gateway is, the
                 IP of the DSL modem. Also make sure that IP forwarding
                 is enabled.
                 You probably need to set up eth1 on the DSL Router to
                 something like Then configure your PCs to
                 use as their default gateway. This should let
                 you talk to from your PCs (assuming that
                 your DSL router's firewall/nat is configured to allow
                 \_ My router has a WAN port, which is directly
                    connected to the DSL modem's LAN port via a
                    regular Ethernet cable. The PC is connected to the
                    router's LAN port. The DSL modem's ip address is
           PPPoE is handled by the router but I
                    don't think it talks to the modem using its
           address. On the LAN side, the router's
                    ip address is, and my PC is,
                    the router's WAN side is my external ip address
                    (which is connected to the modem that only answers
                    on I guess it's not possible to get
                    to the modem from my PC directly through the
                    router. If I connect the modem directly to my PC,
                    and set my PC's ip address to, then I
                    can talk to the modem fine.
                    \_ plug everything into the "LAN" side, including the
                       connection to the DSL modem.  configure your DHCP
                       pool to hand out IPS on the 192.168.0.x with default
                       \_ Won't I lose the firewall capability of my router?
        \_ See if your router can support bridging the "WAN" side to the
           "LAN" side.  That would eliminate the entire 10.x network
           \_ and eliminate the need for the router too.
              \_ I don't want to lose the SPI firewall in my router.
                 If I connect the modem to the LAN side, then my
                 entire local network becomes a DMZ. To me, the
                 firewall capabilities of my router outweights the
                 inconvenience of reconnecting the cables when I need
                 to configure the modem. I am just wondering if
                 there's a trick that would allow me to access the
                 modem through the router. I guess it's not possible...
2006/2/18-23 [Recreation/Music] UID:41924 Activity:low
2/18    Where are good places to download music these days?  BitTorrent
        tends to have mostly albums and large quantities of songs...
        \_ iTunes Music Store. Don't Steal Music. -sjobs
           \_ Any music store that has seperate sections for "world",
           \_ Any music store that has separate sections for "world",
              "inspirational", "new age", and "pop", but no section for
              metal or punk is a store I won't buy from just on principle.
              Is there a competing legal online music seller that caters to
              people under 40?
              \_ I'm sick & tired of computer geeks spelling it wrong: separate.
              \_ Click browse (Eye in the Corner), then click Rock. There
                 are many subgenres, including Death Metal and Trad Rock.
                 Under Alternative, there's Goth, Indie, Punk, etc.
                 \_ Holy crap.  Ok, I'm impressed.
        \_ Internet radio and Wiretap by Ambrosia (ships free with Macs).
           Of course, you'll need to edit/convert the track after, but digital
           is digital.
2006/2/18-23 [Reference/Tax] UID:41925 Activity:nil
2/18    Business SUV tax break still far greater than hybrid tax break
2006/2/18-23 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:41926 Activity:nil
2/18    Since 1990, the UK has cut greenhouse emissions by 13 percent while
        growing its economy by 40 percent.  An interview with Sir David King.
        \_ The last thing I read said CO2 had risen about 12% since they had
           committed to Kyoto and they'll miss their 2012 mark by miles.
           Maybe they'd had a huge turn around in emissions in the last
           6 months, go Britain!
        \_ To me the most interesting bit of this interview is his
           endorsement of nuclear power.  Is this becoming more of a favored
2006/2/18-23 [Politics/Foreign/Canada] UID:41927 Activity:nil
2/18    Switzerland Uber Alles (okay only Uber Canada, but still...)
        Are the Swiss going to riot now John? -ausman
        \_ WTF is with the John fascination? Why is he so special
           and why do you pick on him?   -someone who doesn't know John
        \_ Only if the government tells them they can.  ;-)
        \_ I think our coach is Canadian.  W00t!  -John
2019/01/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:18 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>