Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:06 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2006/2/6-7 [Science/Space, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:41714 Activity:nil
2/6     http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/science/04climate.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
        "In October, for example, George Deutsch, a presidential appointee in
        NASA headquarters, told a Web designer working for the agency to add
        the word "theory" after every mention of the Big Bang..."
        \_ You're saying the big bang thing isn't a theory?  A lot of *very*
           smart people in the field would disagree with you.
           \_ You're ignoring the context of the order.  It's very clear that
              he meant it not as scientists define "theory" but in the "it's
              just a theory" ID-crazed-uninformed-nutjob manner
           \_ Perhaps.  But Deutsch is a Dubya appointee, so obviously the
              edit is motivated by politics and not science.
2006/2/6-7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll, Computer/SW] UID:41715 Activity:high
2/6     Not new, but scary anyway:
        http://images.google.com/images?q=tiananmen vs.
        http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen
        Cue ChiCom Troll.  -John
        \_ too bad google doesn't have any thing interesting when I searched
           "Bonus Army."
        \_ do not troll the chicom troll.  the chicom troll is not against
           valid and constructive criticism of the Great and Mighty Middle
           Kingdom.  - chicom troll
           \_ I knew chicom troll, and you sir are no chicom troll.  -John
              \_ shutup!  I am the chicom troll!  who is the one who
                 first used the term on the motd?!
                 \_ Right here, yo.  -John
                    \_ Whoa, really?  So you're part of the motd cultural
                       legacy? As my french foriegn exchange student exroommate
                       Nathalie used to say: "Wouww!"  May I touch you?  -mice
                    \_ Exactly.  And you used it on what I wrote.  So
                       I am the official Chicom Troll.
                       I am the official Chicom Troll.  Now STFU!
                    \_ Exactly.  And you used it on what I wrote, when you
                       lost the argument and got red faced.
                       \_ No, I used it on what you wrote when you were a
                          fucking moron.  Fortune cookie says: "close, but
                       \_ No, I used it on what you wrote when you were an
                          utter moron.  Fortune cookie says: "close, but
                          no Yichang cigar".  And yes, your ex-roommate may
                          touch me.  -John
                          \_ Cigars?  You have expensive tastes.  I prefer
                             cheap Panda brand cigarettes.  As for my ex-
                             roommate, I doubt he would be interested,
                             unless he is drunk, and you dress up as a
                             fat swiss milk wench and start yodeling.
                             \_ I'm dressed up as a fat swiss milk wench
                                right now, yodeling this post at my PC.  And
                                I meant mice's former roommate, so yours is
                                SOL, sorry.  -John
                                \_ Oh John, you tease!  You're so cruel!  -mice
        \_ Near the bottom of the .cn page it reads something like "In
           accordance with local laws, rules and policies, some search results
           are not displayed."
2006/2/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41716 Activity:moderate
2/6     The cartoon controversy: the Saudi factor
        http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/5/13149/60748
        \_ too bad he based this entire thing on bad dates from a single
           source.  but it isn't a bad theory overall.
        \_ cool article.  I've been saying all along that Saudi is problematic.
           if we are serious about curbing Islamic Extremist, we need to deal
           with them.   FYI, Aljazeera did a survey, something like 66,000
           out of 78,000 muslims said that official apology from the original
           Dannish newspaper is good enough.
           \_ This presumes two things:  (a) that there is something wrong
              with what the Danish paper did (maybe it was in questionable
              with what the Danish paper did (it was in very questionable
              taste and judgment, but that is different) and (b) that "islam"
              and the umma as such have some inherent right for their
              sensitivities to trump some of the core values and rights that
              lie at the heart of what we so cavalierly call "Western culture."
              Neither (a) nor (b) is the case.  As for Islamic extremism, one
              can only hope that pictures of people threatening to bomb
              embassies and kill paper editors over cartoons will bring what
              we keep being told is the "moderate majority" of muslims to
              their senses, and make them realize how truculent, thuggish and
              frankly, prone to infantile outbursts their co-religionists are.
              To be honest, I don't see anyone asking for an apology from
              anyone in the "islamic world" over the sort of acceptance you
              get towards pictures of people having their heads cut off because
              they are infidels, or over really vile anti-semitic shit that
              you get on a lot of islamic web pages.  Regarding what I see as
              western kow-towing to this sort of horseshit collective temper-
              tantrum, I've written a number of retailers that have removed
              Danish products from their shelves in many countries, explaining
              that they don't deserve my custom, for what little it's worth,
              and I hope others will do the same.  -John
              \_ What if some CEO of company, President of a country, or
                 university made some anti-semitic remarks, or remarks
                 offensive to feminists, and some members of said groups
                 decide to boycott products of the company, not visit the
                 country, etc., will you be against that?
              \_ The point of the article was that the Saudis deliberately
                 inflamed the issue, in order to distract attention from the
                 fuckup of the Hajj stampede.
                 \_ Yes, I know, I like the article.  I was mainly venting,
                    the whole thing is pretty disgusting.  As for boycotts,
                    go ahead; however, I find knuckling under to a fairly
                    barbaric condemnation of a society's fundamental values
                    (have you read what some of these signs say?) to be pretty
                    sad.  I think this is not one of those cases where you
                    can even claim there is a gray area.  -John
                    \_ a) It is not up to *YOU* to judge rather the cartoon
                        is offensive or not.  b) don't you get it?  they
                        are not attacking our value.  They are attacking our
                        100 years of imperial foreign policies of supporting
                        repressive regime, overthrown democratic governments,
                        carve out their homelands to server other Western
                        interest, etc.
                        \_ Are you saying there would be no outrage if the
                           cartoons were published by a newspaper from a
                           non-imperialist, non-supporting repressive regime,
                           etc., nation?
                        \_ I don't give a shit if the cartoon was offensive
                           or not.  They are not attacking "our" anything,
                           this is DENMARK we are talking about.  HELLOO?  It
                           is your and my right to even consider arguing about
                           this on a public (or any) forum.  And it's "serve
                           other interests".  -John
                        \_ Re-read and meditate, young padawan.  Cosmic truths
                           may suddenly become clear.  -John
                        \_ so Islam is a Religion Of Peace and we made them
                           beat their wives?  if only their wives had just
                           listened and done what they were told they wouldn't
                           have had to beat them.
2006/2/6-7 [Finance/Investment] UID:41717 Activity:moderate
2/6     My brother got married recently and they insisted they didn't want
        anything and refused to register anywhere.  Obviously I have to get
        something, but since they're poor the most practical thing would be
        cash.  If I have lots of disposable income and make $X/yr, what is a
        good amount for a wedding present?
        \_ make an Indecent proposal.
        \_ $X
        \_ Not knowing any of you, I'd say a few hundred bucks.  Don't shame
           them by giving a large amount.  By not accepting anything they're
           saying to the world, "This is true love, we're not getting married
           to scam you out of some gifts"
           \_ agree.  couple hundred bucks is good enough.  anything more than
              that is going to be too offensive... unless you sure he doesn't
              mind.
        \_ how poor are they? i'm sure there's something that he could use,
           be it a DSL subscription, or a computer, or porn DVDs (being a
           computer nerd, it makes sense to get him those things) or even
           something like repairs for his beat up corolla. That way, you're
           not giving him charity (which he already said he doesn't want),
           you're thinking about him (and his wife, i guess). you could even
           get him something like a Safeway gift card, and say it's because
           you didn't know what kind champagne he liked.
        \_ Miss Manners says that's it's rude to tell people that you don't
           want gifts; it's the giver's choice what to give.  If your
           brother wants to be insulted at generosity, that's his problem.
             -tom
           \_ Who cares about MM? What does Emily Post have to say?
           \_ Ironic that you'd be a MM reader.
              \_ Have you read Miss Manners at all?  She does the best
                 smack-downs of any columnist this side of Savage Love.  -tom
                 \_ Yes, I have.  As I said.  Ironic.
        \_ give them stock or a savings bond.  i got the latter several
           times as a kid and it's good karma.
           \_ A small quantity of stock is just a pain in the as for
              somebody who isnt an invester. Just give cash if you are
              somebody who isnt an investor. Just give cash if you are
              thinking this route or a gift certificate to Amazon.
              In fact just ignore all the other advice except maybe the
              trip if you have a good idea there and get them Amazon.
              \_ that makes a lot of sense.  i like amazon certificates. -pp
                 \- yes i know that. i get an AMAZONG CREDIT for all
                    my associate who have new children.
        \_ A good gift is a trip somewhere. Where are they honeymooning?
        \_ If they're serious about not receiving gifts and you're serious
           about giving, you can always donate money to some reasonable
           charity in their name.
        \_ give them stock or something.  i never did something like that,
           but it sounds like it'd work great if i were into that.  savings
           bonds are for kids, but might be appropriate if you think they're
           addiction-prone or won't know how to sell stock.  they'll probably
           realize they can take you out for a nice dinner if they ever sell.
           \_ I got married 6 months ago and suggested people do this. -bz
        \_ How about just taking your brother out, telling him over a beer
           that you'd like to do something nice for them (it is possible to
           tell someone that you are financially well off and would like to
           share in a non-arrogant way) and just ask him straight-out in
           private what he'd like?  And Miss Manners can bite my ass.  -John
           \_ He lives 300 miles away, makes himself difficult to contact,
              and has been delicately asked this a few times already. -op
              \_ Just a thought -- if they intend to procreate, and
                 depending on how much you want to spend, consider opening
                 a trust fund (cash, bonds, whatever) for the kid.  -John
        \_ A few casino chips
        \_ Toaster!
2006/2/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:41718 Activity:nil
2/6     Those brown people are all terrorists right?
        http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1156497,00.html
2006/2/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41719 Activity:kinda low
2/6     George Bush lies^H^H^H^H  misstates the truth again:
        Secondly, there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way,
        any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap,
        it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed,
        by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're
        talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important
        for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act,
        constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is
        necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.
        -Dubya 4/20/05
        \_ I think he just misunderestimated the truth.
        \_ At that time it was a top secret operation.  Lying in to protect a
           state secret is legal, I'm pretty sure.
           \_ It was an _illegal_ top secret operation.  Lying to protect
              an illegal act was what forced Nixon to resign.
              \_ It was _illegal_?  Who says?
                 \_ Arlen Specter.
                 \_ Congressional Research Service.  Congress is finally
                    getting off their ass and starting oversight hearings,
                    but they've started them by NOT SWEARING IN THE AG...
                    \_ Starting hearings != determined was illegal.  Sorry.
        \_ mebbe he was only talking about domestic-to-domestic wiretapping
        \_ Everyday I wonder how George Bush can consider himself a Christian.
        \_ Everyday I wonder how George Bush considers himself a Christian.
           \_ I don't think the Bible discusses wire taps.  Was that in the
              Book Of NSA?
2006/2/6-7 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:41720 Activity:moderate 90%like:41694
2/3     Amazing view, simply amazing:
        http://tinyurl.com/bdz5o (forbes.com)
        \_ No backyard.
           \_ These are all like living in a hotel. I don't see the
              allure, except for perhaps the one in NYC where there are
              no real alternatives nearby.
              \_ yes you're absolutely right. Every single person on this
                 planet prefers living in the suburb that's nice and
                 big and quiet and have huge backyards. People who think
                 otherwise are dim-wits, like the ones who live
                 in the city.
                 \_ I never said that. I said that it's like living in
                    a hotel. The city is fine, but paying $15 million
                    to live in a hotel isn't my cup of tea. Most of those
                    cities (except NYC) have pretty nice housing
                    available, so why live in a hotel except for the view?
                    \_ some people prefer the view over other things. Somehow
                       you seem to think that people like what you like.
                       In case no one ever pointed this out to you, you
                       seem pretty narrow minded and above all, dim-witted.
                       \_ I'm just expressing an opinion. Why do you have
                          a problem with that? You seem like the
                          narrow-minded one.
                    \_ It's..."different".  We have a penthouse in Santiago
                       that looks over the city (no, not anywhere even near
                       any of these places, but a nice duplex that we got a
                       good price on during our stay here.)  It's furnished
                       and has maid service, but it's not like a hotel at all.
                       I'm used to both houses in the countryside and city,
                       as well as apartments, and it's just something you get
                       used to.  And frankly, if I had the kind of wealth that
                       let me blow $15 million on a place that I really really
                       liked, why not?  -John
                       \_ Anyone blowing lots of money on condos, apartments,
                          and such either has no financial sense, or is
                          just stupid. If I had so much money I'd invest
                          in a nice single family home where I have a lot of
                          space and freedom, where I have a nice
                          garage to do garage/repair work, a nice yard with
                          dogs (you can't have pets in the city), and a
                          nice driveway where I can wash my car. When you
                          live in the city, you have no privacy and you
                          have no freedom.
                                        -pp and I maintain that the
                                         city life is for stupid people
                          \_ I guess arguing with someone as open-minded
                             as yourself is going to be rewarding, but then
                             again, it's nice that you are so clear about
                             your preference in housing choices.  This sounds
                             vaguely like the bitter people you see scoffing
                             at the guy having a great time in his Ferrari
                             (who doesn't realize they're there.)  And by
                             the way, we're getting a dog, my building has a
                             nice clean car wash space, I have no neighbors
                             peering over my fence, and a whole city's worth
                             of space.  But your choice, more for me.  -John
                             \_ You must be a young yippie who loves to
                                drink latte and capuccino and likes to wear
                                nice designer clothes. Above all else you
                                probably never exerienced marriage and
                                have no kids. The city is big enough for
                                single men like you but one day you will
                                mature and your perception will change,
                                drastically. My word of advice to you--
                                be prepared. You're still young, and stupid.
                                                        -pp
                                \_ how come with all that space in the
                                   suburbs, 60% of Americans are classified
                                   as obese?
                                   as obese and overweight?
                                   \_ Because a huge number of them live in
                                      tightly packed cities and don't have
                                      enough space to "stretch their legs"?
                                      \_ How come obesity is especially
                                         prevalent in the midwest and less
                                         common in bigger cities like NY,
                                         Boston, etc.?
                                         \_ Because 43.74% of all statistics
                                            are made up on the spot, except
                                            on the motd where that number
                                            rises to a statistically confirmed
                                            86.263%.  Are you done making shit
                                            up yet?
                                            \_ This is common knowledge.
                                               You need to read more, or be
                                               You the to read more, or be
                                               more observant.   check out
                                               indiana, michigan, wisconsin,
                                               illinois, ohio.  compare with
                                               new york, massachusetts.
                                               midwest == fat.  ok south
                                               even fatter:
                                               http://tinyurl.com/3rfta
                                               \_ Now go find statistics that
                                                  say *who* is fat.  It is
                                                  poor people due to shitty
                                                  fast food diets.  You need
                                                  to understand your statistics
                                                  not merely blindly quote
                                                  them.  Stat 2.
                http://www.thedenverchannel.com/health/2269064/detail.html
                                \_ If you have enough money, you can have
                                   all the space you need, even in the city.
                                   -40 year old, married with kids living
                                    in The City and loving it
                                    \_ Alright I've been trolled enough.
                                       All I have to say is that you're old
                                       and still stupid   -pp
                                    \_ Exactly, which is why I don't
                                       really like these glorified hotel
                                       rooms. The exception (as I said
                                       before) is NYC, where apparently
                                       $70 million still won't get you
                                       anything but a (huge) apartment.
                       \_ Are houses (and penthouses) more affordable
                          in Santiago? Are we talking about Chile or
                          Dominican Republic Santiago, Panama Santiago,
                          Minnesota Santiago USA, Spain Santiago Compost,
                          Cuba Santiago, or Argentina Santiago del Estero?
                          \_ Pedant!  :)  Yes, Chile, and they're vastly more
                             affordable than in the US.  -John
        \_ I used to work at a company that occupied the whole penthouse of
           the Great Western Building on Shattuck.  Not much view, though.
           \_ Gee, that's what ... a short bldg in the middle of Berkeley?
2006/2/6-7 [Recreation/House] UID:41721 Activity:nil
2/6     Exterior House Paint: Anyone reccomend going with either
        Kelley Moore or Benjamin Moore? Two of the firms I talked to so
        far prefer KM saying that all in all its a better value eventhough
        BM is more expensive/higher quaility; that only really matters
        for interior painting. For exterior painting; I should save some $$
        and use KM. Are they telling the truth? >-- thanks
        \_ If your choice is only one of those then go with Benjamin
           Moore. You say yourself it's higher quality (which it is).
           Higher quality means easier to work with, better UV
           resistance (color fading), and so on. The difference per
           gallon can't be much, so why mess with cheap paint? I used
           Dunn-Edwards for my house, but I know Sherwin-Williams,
           Pratt & Lambert, and BM are all good paints.
        \_ Behr Premium Plus (Home Depot brand) routinely wins consumer
           testing thingies.
           \_ Behr does not have a good reputation.
        \_ Behr Premium Plus (Home Depot brand) routinely wins consumer testing
           thingies.
2006/2/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:41722 Activity:nil
2/6     Iran asks the IAEA to cease "all voluntarily suspended non-legally
        binding measures", which includes:
        - Removal of all surveillance cameras and seals, by the end of next
          week
        - Sharp reduction in number of inspectors and types of inspections
          (including surprise inspections), effective immediately
        - Formal date for resumption of full-scale enrichment, with some
          ("voluntary"?) IAEA inspector oversight
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060206/ap_on_re_eu/nuclear_agency_iran
        \_ We should send in DELTA FORCE in inspector outfits and take out their
           nuke labs.
           \_ We should send in LANDSHARK.  -John
              \_ Candygram!
        - Sharp reduction in number of inspectors and types of inspections
          (including surprise inspections), effective immediately
        - Formal date for resumption of full-scale enrichment, with some
          ("voluntary"?) IAEA inspector oversight
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060206/ap_on_re_eu/nuclear_agency_iran
2006/2/6-7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:41723 Activity:kinda low
2/6     I missed the Superbowl completely.  Where can I find archive of all
        commericals, perferably in anything other than Flash format so I can
        archive it locally?   TIA
        \_ my gf was looking at it last night.  it was probably http://ifilm.com.
           \_ anyone knows how to capture them from iFilm?  the rstp URL  is
              very painful to find.
        \_ http://video.google.com/superbowl.html
           \_ flash :(
        \_ http://nfl.com has them, realplayer format
           \_ thanks.  capturing them now may be convert it to AVI
        \_ You didn't miss much.  Mike Jagger didn't have a wardrobe
           mulfunction.  Darn!
        \_ You didn't miss much.  Mick Jagger didn't have a wardrobe
           malfunction.  Darn!
        \_ WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH USING ARTICLES?  -John
           \_ easy. Articles in English is very very hard.  Don't you think
              the fact that I managed to go through high school / Berkeley
              with such disfunc English skill reflect the true state of our
              public school system?
              \_ No, I think it reflect the true state of the you're a lazy
                 moron and teh poor troll.  I certainly hope you're not
                 seriously this linguistically defective, because if you are
                 not motivated enough or capable of, god forbid, making the
                 slightest fucking effort to form complete sentences with the
                 benefit of a Berkeley education, you should have a sentence
                 diagram shoved up your ass.  -John
                 moron and teh poor troll.  Don't make me whoopass you with
                 a sentence diagram.  -John
                 \_ Woot!  Sentence diagram!  Yes!
        \_ Good grief, those were pathetic. I can't believe they paid that
           much to show that drivel. :P
2006/2/6-7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:41724 Activity:nil
2/6     Anyone else receiving email messages that have headers but
        no content?  I confirmed with the sender that there was in
        fact content in what was sent.  Perhaps the recent downtime
        plus massive mail delivery to catch up is to blame, but I've
        never observed this particular symptom.   -srgordon
        \_ I received a couple of emails like this too. - ciyer
                \_ I received at least 1 email like this.  Also, I did
                   not receive one particular email that was sent either
                   Sunday or Monday afternoon (it's already Tuesday morning
                   as I write this).
        \_ Me three.  --PeterM
        \_ It has been asked multiple times on MOTD, and I don't recall ever
           seeing a technical answer.  So what is causing the recent soda
           instability?
           \_ amckee fostered a culture where socializing and mentoring
              freshman/sophomore candidates for the CS major were prioritized
              over technical clue, in particular system administration.  At
              \_ Stop criticizing amckee. You're either with amckee, or
                 against amckee. Even if you don't criticize him he may
                 launch an preemptive attack in Operation Squish Dissent
                 until Mission Accomplished. How? His conservative buddies
                 in politburo spies by reading secret root motd log and
                 email without warrants. Amckee is right. He is always
                 right and resolute. So bring it on, dans. God Bless.
                 \_ Kindly explain how a factual recount of recent history may
                    be considered `criticism.'  Anyway, it be broughten. -dans
                    \_ I think you missed the joke.  --someone else
                       \_ Joking at the expense of amckee is a sorryable
                          offense.
              the same time he alienated many alumni including some root
              staff.  Thus, present day ops staff (i.e. VP) get less insight
              and assistance than they did in the past.  Present day ops staff
              may or may not have clue, I don't know, I've never met them.
              That said, the motd has never been an official politburo/root
              outlet.  Consider mailing politburo, root, or, bettery yet, show
              up to a politburo meeting.
              -dans
2006/2/6 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:41725 Activity:nil
2/6     Maybe I am missing the obvious; but what do you need to do to ensure
        a bourne shell script, that does nothing more than start some other
        programs and send some status messages to stdout, continues to run
        after you logged out the t-shell from when started it. Thanks
        \_ nohup ./yourscript.sh &  --dbushong
2006/2/6 [Recreation/Food] UID:41726 Activity:high
2/6     Favorite fast food poll.  Or have you outgrown fast food?
        \_ McD fries
2006/2/6-7 [Uncategorized] UID:41727 Activity:nil
2/6     dim and john, round 2, FIGHT!
        \_ It's FITE!!!11!  Get it straight.
        \_ The MOTD is overdue for a good GUN DUEL
           \_ shut up, psb
              \- i have not made any motd posts above this line.
2006/2/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41728 Activity:nil
2/6     Uh, so why is Gonzales not testifying under oath?
        \_ Because congressional Republicans have decided that castrating
           themselves at the altar of Bush is a fine way to run a country.
        \_ It's a crime to lie to Congress whether you're under oath or not.
           But not putting him under oath means no symbolic photo of him
           raising his right hand.  Propaganda war is everything.
        \_ U.S. Code, Statements http://tinyurl.com/7p7q6
           U.S. Code, Perjury http://tinyurl.com/9shkt (both http://cornell.edu)
           Okay, I am not a lawyer, someone pls figure out the diff.
           "I think what we did was legal." (but you actually think it wasn't)
           It turns out to be legal, but proof is found showing you didn't
           actually think it was legal (you knowingly lied about what you
           thought).
             Perjury:  Yes.
             Materially false/fictitious/fraudulent/misrep statement:  No.
           Gonzales was not sworn in, so cannot be found guilty of perjury, but
           can be for false statements.  I am not a lawyer. -op
2006/2/6-7 [Reference/Religion] UID:41729 Activity:nil
2/6     Muslim Complaint Box
        http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3565
2006/2/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:41730 Activity:moderate
2/6     Democrats, not Republicans, want to grow the Army to far bigger:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060206/ap_on_go_pr_wh/budget_defense_6
        "His approach, which is opposed by many Democrats in Congress who
        believe the Army in particular is being stretched too thin and needs to
        get far bigger, ......"
        \_ I actually support the idea of bringing back the draft, although
           not on the scale seen in early decades (and certainly not with the
           unfair Vietnam-era deferments).  The currently professional
           military does not accurately reflect American society as a whole -
           generally it is more conservative, more Christian, more macho,
           and more working class than America is as a whole.  A fair draft
           would make the Army much more reflective of society as a whole,
           and probably less prone to form a distinct special interest
           "power bloc."  Not to mention the fact that more Americans
           would have a direct stake in American military action, either
           directly or through family ties.  --liberal
           \_ You want your military to be Politically Correct or to save your
              ass when The Bad Guys show up?  Who gives a shit if the army
              isn't quota perfect?  Few things are.  Is this some bizarre
              troll or do you really actually believe all that crap?
              \_ I'm completely serious.  We fought WWII with a military
                 made up of everyone.  Stop jerking your knees and think
                 \_ Uh.. Tuskegee Airmen?
                 about it for a second - I'm not talking about quotas.
                 The Founding Fathers had good reason to fear an entrenched
                 warrior class - see also Eisenhower's "military-industrial
                 complex" speech.
                 \_ The average soldier in the army is not what Eisenhower
                    was talking about.  You want to go back to WWII style
                    combat where they lose 5000+ men a day in every major
                    conflict and sometimes more?  What was so great about
                    that?  Today we have a highly mobile, all volunteer,
                    professional army much much smaller than WWII which kicked
                    the hell out of Sadam's WWII style draftee army in GW1
                    and GW2.  Morale, training, effectiveness, and every
                    other measure of army quality has never been higher.  I
                    don't think a draftee PC Army can *ever* approach the
                    quality armed forces we have today.  When I need a
                    plumber, I don't check to see if he's properly reflective
                    of the make up of the community.  I want to know that he's
                    the best plumber I can get for my dollar.  Seriously, go
                    look up the WWII loss totals for various battles.  WWI
                    was even worse and the deaths even more pointless.  (I'll
                    grant that GW2 isn't a 'fair' comparison since it was
                    really just the long awaited end of GW1 but Iraq still
                    had a number of well equiped units that got flattened
                    if they didn't flee).
                    \_ I'm not op or supporting a draft but GW and Afghnstn
                       are not good examples of our superior army over WWII.
                       We had overwhelming superiority in equipment and
                       air support, and the enemy knew it. That aspect is
                       not a draftee vs. nondraftee issue.
                       \_ The Soviets had overwhelming superiority in equipment
                          air support, numbers, and everything else, but still
                          got their asses handed to them in Afghanistan.  They
                          use draftees.  We don't.  We bombed the place and
                          used fast light highly motivated ground forces when
                          needed.  10 years later the Soviets retreated in
                          shame.  10 weeks later we owned the country.
                          Draftee armies just suck.  There's a good reason for
                          that if you think about it for 2 seconds.  When it
                          comes to protecting my skin, I'll take the
                          professionals who signed up for it over a much
                          larger group of enslaved walking targets who only
                          want to get home alive, thanks.  Maybe you know
                          something that the top military and civilians in
                          our government don't know.  Write a letter, maybe
                          they'll do a draft for you.  There's no way you're
                          going to convince anyone that a drafted army is
                          better than an all volunteer professional force.
                          \_ The Soviets were fighting against guerillas
                             armed with the latest US technology and with
                             US support. Afghanistan would be totally
                             different if, say, France was helping the
                             rebels. Even now, only the capital is truly
                             under control and the rest of the country is
                             as lawless as ever.
                             \_ France?  Huh?  The Soviets are the WWII army
                                you say you want.  I don't care who they were
                                fighting.  They got their asses kicked.  I gave
                                you a professional vs. draftee example.  I gave
                                you another WWII vs. volunteer example.  You're
                                just trolling now.  I can not 'create' a war
                                that will satisfy your ideal conflict.  Such an
                                event has never taken place and never will.
                                You have yet to show a place where draftees
                                came even close to beating professionals or
                                volunteers much less the 2 ass kicking examples
                                I gave of the opposite.  Good bye.
                                \_ How about the Hessians losing to the
                                   Americans in the Revolutionary War?
                                   Weren't mercenaries also at the root of
                                   the military problems of ancient Rome?
                                   Anyway, that is beside the point I was
                                   making about Afghanistan, which you ignored.
                          \_ Professional army was cool until US had to
                             occupy Iraq for the long term.  Now there isn't
                             enough manpower, and regimes like N. Korea and
                             Iran knows that US's hands are tied.  The
                             other problem with professional army is that
                             now that they have Iraq, they had trouble
                             getting new recruits.
                       \_ In one of the letters that Osama bin Ladin addressed
                          to the American people, he stated that his goal
                          was to bankrupt the United States.  It doesn't
                          really matter if we have overwhelming superiority
                          in equipment.  Our net gain from this war (and
                          from Vietnam) will be zero, if not negative.  And
                          we are just playing into the hands of Al Quaida....
                          \_ Math is good.  Compare the cost of GW2+Afghan+
                             DHS+everything-else to the federal budget.
                             AlQ hasn't done jack in the US since 9/11.  I'm
                             failing to see the failure in the current policy.
                                \_ The American economy is only doing well due
                                   to massive government stimulus.  If the
                                   Iranian Oil bourse starts chipping away at
                                   the dollar's current place as the
                                   reserve currency of the world, Asia will
                                   stop buying up all our debt and the economy
                                   will crumble.  We will no longer be able to
                                   inflate away our $8 trillion debt.
                                   \_ huh?  why would we not be able to
                                      inflate away our debt?  asia not buying
                                      our debt will only help, cause it
                                      causes dollar to fall and improves our
                                      exports and reduce trade decifit.  debt
                                      is in US dollar so it will stay constant
                                      (and become smaller relative to exports).
                                        \_ China's currency is pegged to ours.
                                           If they stop buying our debt we have
                                           to raise our interest rates.  A lot.
2006/2/6-7 [Science/Biology] UID:41731 Activity:nil
2/6     Utah Mormon Republicans against Creationism (or whatever they're
        calling it this week).  http://tinyurl.com/c3x7h [nyt]
        '"I don't think God has an argument with science," said Mr. Urquhart
        [Republican majority whip]...  Mr. Urquhart says he objects to the
        bill [to require science teachers to offer a disclaimer on evolution]
        in part because it raises questions about the validity of evolution,
        and in part because the measure threatens traditional religious belief
        by blurring the lines between faith and science.'
        \_ Why are you posting articles from that crap paper?
           \_ Your comments make me understand what it must be like listening
              to Scott McClellan in the WH press briefings.
2006/2/6-7 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:41732 Activity:nil
2/6     http://tinyurl.com/8ujew (reuters.com)
        An injection of two drugs normally used to treat HIV patients
        completely protected monkeys from becoming infected with the AIDS
        virus, U.S. researchers reported on Monday. ... The monkeys were then
        exposed to a combined human-monkey AIDS virus called SHIV, using a
        rectal method aimed at simulating male homosexual contact. That
        happened daily for 14 days and the monkeys also got daily injections.
        \_ It's that what Vanilla Ice claimed happened to him?  He got a
           SHIV in the butt?
        \_ There aren't animal-cruelty issues related to butt-raping monkeys?
           \_ Nono, those were GAY monkeys and they really enjoyed butt-raping
           \_ Not if butt-raping monkeys could save human lives.
2006/2/6-7 [Recreation/Woodworking] UID:41733 Activity:low
2/6     I love wood work, I love building my own things. In HS I was the
        best student in wood shop. When I was in college I got a nice 18V
        Makita drill/screw driver set... best investment ever. Later in my
        life I bought a jig saw to speed up cutting, and I bought a nice
        variable speed Ryobi. Later on when I needed to cut straight edges
        precisely and quickly, I bought a circular saw. I also bought a nice
        Makita hand sander, which is heavily utilized. Now I'm at a
        point where I need a router but I'm not sure if it's actually worth
        the investment. The reason is that routers are actually quite
        expensive and I only need it occasionally to round off edges of
        wood pieces but beyond that it'll not be heavily utilized the way
        drills/sanders/saws are utilized. Any advice? Ideally I'd like
        to have an easy/any-time access to a wood shop, with a nice
        stationary drill, table saw, and other goodies. Either that, or
        I can start building one in my garage which will cost a lot, and
        take up too much space. So... router? or wood shop?
        \_ You can do a lot with a good router.  See the show
           "the router workshop" where they make pretty much everything with
           just routers.
        \_ My advice is: stop saying "utilized" instead of "used".  It doesn't
           make you sound smart.
           \_ And stop saying "investment" when you're buying the tools for
              your toys projects.
        \_ If you're in the south bay, there's one place that was mentioned
           in the sjmerc of a warehouse that some guy had converted into a
           walk-in woodshop.  If you only need certain expensive things
           occasionally, it might be more cost efficient to go there.  I think
           Home Depot also rents tools like these.
        \_ Both Berkeley and Oakland have tool lending libraries.  -tom
        \_ In the long run, if you want to take the time to really learn
           how to use the router, it will be worth it.  You probably won't
           use it as much as, say, your drills or circular saw, but it'll save
           you a lot of time when you do need to use it.  Like having a drill
           press versus handhelds.
           In the short term, tool lending libraries.
2017/11/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/18   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:06 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>