Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:04 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/2/4 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41698 Activity:nil
        "The president is said to have told Blair the U.S. "was
        thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter
        cover over Iraq. The aircraft would be painted in U.N. colors,
        so that if Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach of
        U.N. resolutions, the book said.
2006/2/4-5 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:41699 Activity:kinda low
        "... the dispute was apparently resolved after the Americans backed
        down and accepted compromise language, an American official said."
        \_ Yes!  Now Iran is going to the UN Security Council and they're
           going to pass a resolution in a year or two.  That'll scare em
           in Tehran!  Woot!  Ok, now that the Iran nuke situation has been
           resolved, what else can our World Government take care of?  Maybe
           Darfur will be next.
           \_ Just out of curiosity, what would you do?  N.b. I don't have a
              realistic answer myself.  It's a bit more complex than Darfur
              or Rwanda, where a couple thousand Marines could have (and
              should have) sorted things out (granted, at the risk of pissing
              off China in Sudan's case) but still, I'm curious.  -John
              \_ At this point, I'm honestly not sure what can be done that
                 will result in a positive outcome without large scale death
                 involved.  I think it might be too late.  Relying too much
                 on a bunch of psychos to oil the world's economy was stupid
                 was the get-go which will make economic sanctions impossible
                 to enforce and meaningless even if they could be.  They're
                 already diplomatically isolated and really don't have a reason
                 to care if the rest of the world cuts them off complete in
                 that regard.  So without economic or diplomatic leverage, the
                 only choices left seem to be some sort of military action,
                 be it a full scale invasion or trying to get a coup going or
                 hope for a miracle.  I don't think there's enough support for
                 a real coup that would benefit the west, full scale invasion
                 is very ugly for many obvious reasons, and a prayer-based
                 foreign policy initiative is going to lead directly to Iran
                 becoming a nuclear power with a lot of oil money and long
                 range missiles and several public statements from their
                 pseudo-elected President that wiping Israel off the map would
                 be a jolly good idea.  Even if you agree that nuking Israel
                 would be fun, the response is going to devastate the area
                 and possibly lead to a world wide economic collapse.  If I was
                 Israel, I'd certain target the oil rich areas with nukes,
                 along with Mecca, Medina, and a few other places that would
                 stir up more shit than the world has ever imagined.  So, to
                 answer your question, I think it comes down to full scale
                 invasion or complete FUBAR in the region which screws the
                 rest of the world too.
2006/2/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41700 Activity:low
2/4     Iraq war I-- 1/100 security officers were private contractors.
        Iraq war II-- 1/4 security officers are private contractors.
        A reduction of troops next year means more growth for private
        corporations next year. Invest wisely!!!        -smart investor
        \_ I don't think the various merc companies are issuing public stock.
2006/2/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41701 Activity:moderate
        Iraq's war has cost every family only $3000 so far. That's actually
        not too bad...
        \_ Yes it is too bad.
        \_ Counting for inflation the Iraq war has cost more than the
           13 years the United States was in Vietnam.
        \_ If this were an ideal world, we should have a democracy where
           all the pro-war advocates should have to foot the bill for the
           Iraq war, and the anti-war people don't have to pay a single
           cent.  I find it absurd that I will be paying extra taxes over
           the next XYZ years to help fund this illegitimate war and get
           us out of our federal deficit.  It's been an absolute waste
           of money, not to mention immoral.
           \_ You don't understand what democracy is.  I find a lot of the
              things my tax dollars are wasted on absurd but in our democratic
              republic we don't get to vote ourselves goodies directly.  We
              have to bribe public officials to direct other people's money
              to us indirectly.  In direct democracy people would soon be
              voting themselves other people's money without the middle man
              who at least makes some pretense of trying to run the government
              properly.  Mob rule/democracy is nothing like ideal.
2006/2/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41702 Activity:very high
2/3     Muslims are psychos..
        \_ None of the muslims I've met were psychos.  I've worked very closely
           with a guy who's a devout muslim for the last five years, and
           "reasonable" is one of the first words I would probably use
           to describe his personality.  Along with "brilliant", "hard-working",
           and "funny."
        \_ My guess is that you've prob just never really met the truly
           great ones nor even normal ones in every day life.  What is
           portrayed in the news will always be a biased in one way or
           \_ My guess is that you've prob just never really met the truly
              average ones who make up the bulk of the ignorant and stupid
              who are currently rioting and attacking people over a friggin
                 \_ See
                    re rioting and attacking over a cartoon.
                    \_ I think you're truly missing the bigger picture.
                       There's a reason why the majority of Arabs/Muslims
                       are anti-American.  Although I agree that they have
                       a very extreme culture, they are people too and
                       their anger with the West is justified.  How
                       would you like it if you're family was killed by
                       Americans?  We just roll in there and say we're
                       "liberating" them, while we're bombing the crap
                       out of them and taking their oil.  There are
                       just so many easy ways to see why Arabs
                       would hate America.  But not just the Arabs. We're
                       making it way too easy for the rest of the world
                       to hate us too.
                       \_ Re the BBC link. I posted this to provide a
                          reference re 'currently rioting and attacking
                          people over a friggin cartoon.' I was not trying
                          to make a substantive point.
                          That said, I completely disagree that the anger
                          toward the West is justified. If anything, the
                          West (and primarily America) is the greatest
                          source of peace and prosperity that has every
                          been known in the history of mankind. Even at
                          its worst moments, this nation and its people
                          have a kind of benevolence that no other people
                          If anything the anger that motivates some in
                          the Islamic world is based on a historical
                          distrust of non-Muslim societies. The Islamic
                          world has has been in conflict w/ the "West"
                          and parts of Asia (notably India) for several
                          hundred yrs. The primary src of conflict is a
                          refusal by some Islamic sects to accept the
                          possibility that there are various alt. belief
                          systems exist by which people can live.
                          In the absence of such acceptance, the conflict
                          cannot be resolved, save by the defeat of one
                          side or the other. I for one pray that the West
                          is victorious; for all its faults, the West is
                          infinitely superior to Islamic rule.
                          \_ I agree with you about Islam vs. the West in
                             general, but I take issue with your claim of
                             America's unique benevolence.  There are a lot
                             of benevolent peoples out there in the world.
                             What makes America unique is that it is a
                             benevolent(or at least benevolent-intending)
                             \_ (I'm someone else).  Yes, and being the world's
                                first benevolent world power make us even
                                'better' then if we were some friendly third
                                world nice country.  It is exactly that which
                                makes us better.  Imagine how the world would
                                look if Hamas had the power the West has now.
              \_ this makes them different from the truly average christians
                 who blockade women's clinics and blame our nation's problems
                 on gay people how?
                 \_ A few thousand nut heads != a few million nut heads.
                    How long since you were in a math or logic class?
                    \_ Maybe you should ask if America is part of the
                       problem.  Every time you bomb the crap out of an
                       Iraqi wedding and bomb a Arab news organization,
                       you create 10x more extremists.  So perhaps we might
                        \_ This is an oft repeated but unproven statement.
                           Lot of bad things happen to people in lots of
                           countries but you don't see the victim's families
                           blowing themselves and other people up over it.
                           There is something fatally flawed in Muslim
                           'culture' that leads to this response and as the
                           weaker party in this exchange they can't hope to
                           ever get anything from violence except even greater
                           violence in return on the Shock and Awe scale.
                       be fueling the extremism??? HMMMMMM....
                       Now how about this... we go to war against them and
                       then make up "evidence" to try to get people to
                       support our war against them?  Where are the WMD
                       that we so infamously proclaimed?
                        \_ Where?  In Syria.  I thought that was commonly
                           understood.  Shrug.  Sky?  Still blue.  Check.
                       Ask yourself this question:  Why did we go into
                       Iraq when we did?  Why did we have to go in there
                       \_ Out of curiosity, what is your answer to this
                       right there and then?  Did Saddam do anything crazy
                       to provoke this war?  NO, we brought this war to
                       Iraq, which means we INVADED Iraq.  If I were
                        \_ Uhm, yes, we invaded Iraq.  Who called it anything
                           else?  When a foreign army crosses a national
                           boundary against the government's wishes, we usually
                           refer to that act as an invasion, especially if it
                           involves thousands of aircraft and missiles dropping
                           bombs in concert with tanks and infantry smashing
                           your army.  What was your point?  You come across
                           as frantic.
                       Arab, I would have MANY good reasons to hate
                    \_ LOL.  A few thousand nut-heads?  So I suppose that when
                       Bush put his gay bashing bit in the state of the union
                       speech right before the election, that was so he could
                       win a few *thousand* votes?  And the massive GOP efforts
                       to get anti-gay resolutions on ballots accros the
                       country during the presidential election year were
                       carried out by a few "thousand" lone nut Christians
                       way outside the mainstream, to a appeal to a few
                       thousand of their fellow nuts?  And the "Left Behind"
                       series of books about how all us non-christians will
                       burn in hell in the soon-to-come apocalypse, those are
                       all best sellers because a few "thousand" Christians
                       read them?  Or, since you seem interested in math
                       and statistics, maybe the over 50% of the approximately
                       290 million people in the U.S. who believe the Earth
                       was created 6000 years ago exactly as described in the
                       Old Testament, maybe that number is a few thousand as
                       \_ When all those "evul xtians"(tm) start blowing shit
                          up and killing people over cartoons or maybe a jar
                          of piss with a holy symbol in it, you can come back
                          here and tell us about it and get taken seriously.
                          Until such time, your comparison of wide scale
                          culturally encouraged terrorism to some nutters
                          outside abortion clinics once a month & their odd yet
                          harmless non-scientific origin beliefs is simply
                          stupid.  I understand your find "evul xtians"(tm)
                          scarier than a billion people "Far Far Away"(c) who
                          want you dead but some of us see the larger picture
                          outside the confines of the ivory ring around
                          \_  Umm, I think the reason why they are terrorizing
                              us is because they don't want to see us
                              \_ We already have succeeded.
                              succeed.  They want to make sure that we don't
                              profit from their oil.  Obviously they don't
                              \_ Profit?  They profit, we lose, everytime I
                                 fill my tank or turn on a light.
                                 \_ Real American patriots RIDE BIKE!
                              have a resources to launch a full-scale invasion
                              against us, so they do what they can to cause
                              chaos in our areas of interest.  If we never
                              went into Iraq, I doubt Al-Quaida would be there.
                              \_ AQ was already there.  They're an inter-
                                 national terrorist organisation with members
                                 in every country on the planet.  Iraq is the
                                 only place they didn't have anyone?  Ok....
                          \_  Did I say anything remotely positive about the
                              Evil Muslim Hordes out there who want to
                              destroy America?  No, I didn't.  I agree
                              that they are a far far greater danger to our
                              civilization than the drooling fucks in Red
                              State America, but that doesn't mean they can't
                              both be threats to our civilization.
                              \_ When you're comparing the puppy across the
                                 street who ate your lollipop to the pillaging
                                 hordes setting fire to everything just past
                                 the stop sign it is hard to take you
                                 seriously.  Whines about evul xtians don't
                                 belong in a discussion about which of our
                                 neighbors may or may not be card carrying
                                 Evil Horde members, blazing pitch torches
                                 and all.  Your dismissing of half the country
                                 as "drolling fucks in Red State America"
                                 doesn't lend any weight to anything you have
                                 to say either.  Here's a quote for you to
                                 think about for a while, "If we love our
                                 country, we should also love our countrymen".
                                 I think you're close minded, ignorant,
                                 mildly retarded, and terribly confused, but
                                 I don't think you're completely hopeless yet.
                                 Drop the hatred thing and stop worrying your
                                 self about silly shit like what the reasonably
                                 harmless xtians are doing and you'll see more
                                 clearly where the real threats to your future
                 \_ Even if one accepts you premise that the ave. Christian
                    blockades abortion clinics and blames nat'l problems on
                    gays, it is fairly tame behavior compared to rioting,
                    car-bombings, suicide bombings, &c. Even the loonies who
                    listen to Pat Robertson, et. al. don't go around actually
                    blowing up abortions clinics on a DAILY basis. Other than
                    the IRA I can't actually think of a group w/ predominantly
                    Christian membership that actively uses terrorism.
                    NOTE: I have worked w/ numerous muslims over the years,
                          and they were all uniformly nice, decent people.
                    \_ Ditto about the nice, decent thing.  The muslims I
                       know almost uniformly were resigned and frustrated
                       about muslim nutjobs.  That said, there is such an
                       amazing number of individuals in the umma preaching
                       or apologizing for violence for a number of reasons
                       that it's hard to ignore.  That, and I find it
                       absolutely fucking repugnant that the US state dept.
                       issues a statement condemning a bunch of cartoons, no
                       matter how offensive they may be to someone.  They
                       should be screaming bloody murder about freedom of
                       the press--have we no pride left?  Guess not.  -John
                       \_ Didn't the whitehouse make an official statement
                          against Team America?
                          \_ Touche.  -John
                          \_ What'd they say?
2006/2/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:41703 Activity:very high
2/4     Why does everyone automatically assume Israel has a right to exist?
        In my eyes, if the Germans killed the Jews, shouldn't Israel be in
        Germany?  The Palestinians shouldn't have to sacrifice Palestine
        for the creation of Israel.  That seems like logical sense to me, no?
        \_ Do you own any land in California?  Are you planning to hand it over
           to Mexico?
           \_ I'm not exactly sure where you're going with those questions.
              Both Israelis and Arabs could use it to their defense.
              My question had to do with state of Palestine before WWII.
              Why is it that the Palestinians had to hand over their
              land when it was the Germans that committed the atrocities?
              To me, it would seem that if Germans commit the crime, they
              should be paying the penalty of losing land, not the Arabs.
              \_ I meant it as a rhetorical question.  I don't frankly think
                 it matters who owned California or Palestine 50 or 100 or
                 1000 years ago.  The fact is that there are both jews and
                 arabs on that piece of land, and any sane solution to the
                 problem has to allow both of them to live there in peace
                 somehow.  Personally, I would advocate a unified secular state
                 that recognises neither judaism nor islam as an official
        \_ Why does everyone automatically assume Palestine has a right to
           exist?  This area hasn't had an independent nation for a few
           thousand years and there's no such people as "The Palestinians".
           This is a fabrication created after Israel was founded.  Sheesh,
           Arafat was an Egyptian citizen.  Why don't we just kick out all
           these interlopers who came along after the only independent nation
           that ever existed there and give it back to them?  That seems like
           logical sense to me, no?  Oh, btw, HI ANTI ISRAELI TROLL!  Top of
           the mornin to ya!
           \_ hahaha, your calling me names hardly means anything to me.
           \_ hahaha, your calling me names is hardly means anything to me.
              And I would hardly call myself anti-Israeli or whatever you
              would like to believe.  I am simply asking a question.  And
              if you have insight that is exactly what I hoping to see.
              \_ No, I don't think your question was intended to spark a
                 serious or educational discussion. Thus, you = troll.  If
                 you were serious you wouldn't be so obnoxious.  Maybe next
        \_ Jews have lived in the area for thousands of years.  They have lived
           in the Palestine area and are just as Palestinian as the so-called
2006/2/4-7 [Recreation/Celebrity/WilliamHung] UID:41704 Activity:nil
2/4     WTF? Will Hung returns:
        \_ I don't think he ever left.  Last I knew he'd sold 100k albums.
        \_ uh, william hung getting a haircut. not funny. at all
2006/2/4-7 [Uncategorized] UID:41705 Activity:nil
2/4     I really hate Piers Anthony
        \_ You're about 20 years behind schedule.
2006/2/4-7 [Recreation/Dating] UID:41706 Activity:low
2/4     Has anyone every deleted all their porn?  (Maybe to save
        time, or you got married, or you're about to go to jail
        for several years for making terroristic threats).  Did
        you regret your decision?
        \_ It was year 2001, 2 years after I graduated from Cal. Things
           were going nowhere at work, the dot-bomb demoralized everyone,
           I was having family problems, and I was going through a breakup.
           It was a depressing time and I jacked off a lot to keep myself
           from sinking any further. But things didn't improve, and one day
           I said enough is enough. I wasted a lot of time jacking off 2-3
           times a day to get away from this horrible world, and I didn't
           want to waste time anymore. I wanted to clean up, so I deleted
           3G of still picture porn that I collected since high school.
           I tried cleaning up my life. But nothing changed. One day, I
           had a big urge but had nowhere to start, so I went to a massage
           parlor and the next week hired a few escorts. I was having
           sex binge because I felt deprived. In retrospect, was it a good
           thing that I deleted porn? No. You'll always need them.
           \_ For the health of your future partners, you should really go
              to an STD clinic.  Having sex with escorts is not exactly low
              risk behavior.
        \_ I delete all my porn regularly.  But I never understood
           the keeping a collection part of porn.  Get porn.  Use porn.
           Toss porn.  Repeat.
                \_ that depends on if you are talking DVD or not. Comcast on
                demand chrages 10-$15 for XXX porn. That gets pricey fast.
                As long as your need for porn gratification gets obsessive to
                 the point of not wanting a regular GF; then you are ok.
                 There are alot more positive things in a good relationship
                than sex. A girl who is a good listener is far more valuable
                than one who is good in bed. Find one who does both is nice
                too of course.

           \_ Are you DER FURIOUS?!
2006/2/4-7 [Uncategorized] UID:41707 Activity:nil
2/4     I just made Coq au Vin for the first time.  Oh. My. God. that's good.
        \_ ObHeLikesTheCoq
2006/2/4-7 [Uncategorized] UID:41708 Activity:nil
2/4     worst picture ever:
2006/2/4-7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41709 Activity:nil
2/4     Dubya bloopers (same thing)
        \_ No way! Bush messing up in a bunch of speeches! I'm glad I saw
           this. I'm not voting for that idiot in 2008.
                \_ We're misunderestimating the average voter
2006/2/4-7 [Consumer/CellPhone, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41710 Activity:nil
2/4     I am going to Europe for the first time since Cell phones became
        ubiquitous.  My understanding is that my American cell phone will
        not work.  Is there such a thing as a cheap, pre-paid phone that
        one can use for just a week while in Europe?  Do they suck?  Where
        would one buy such a thing?  I'll be in France, a few miles outside
        of Paris.  Thanks.
        \_ The appropriate unlocked GSM phone should work.  You just need
           to buy a local SIM card.  I have a Mot v66 that I use just for
           international travel.
        \_ What he said. 1. Get an unlocked GSM phone that supports 900Mhz/
           1800Mhz signal (Cingular & T-Mobile in the U.S. uses 850Mhz/1900Mhz
           frequencies). Better yet, get a quad-band phones (that covers all
           4 of the above). Motorola V220 comes to mind ($20 thru Cingular).
           You can get the above for cheap from eBay.
           2. When you get to Paris, buy a prepaid SIM card from companies like
           Orange, France Telecom or Vodafone. You might also look in eBay to
           see if someone would sell it to you before you leave the U.S. That
           way you avoid the language barrier when dealing with French shop-
           owner (in case you don't parlez francais) and knowing what your
           French cellphone number is in advance (so you can give to your
           wife/mistress/secretary, etc.) Lowest prepaid is about 15-20 Euro,
           and incoming calls are free. Sign up for callback service to save
           money, or a forwarded tollfree number that you can set to route
           calls to your French cellphone. ( is what I use)
            \_ I got a tri-band phone before I went to Spain.  When I got
               there, it didn't work.  I had assumed it would just work in
               Europe (with a proper sim card, of course).  It turns out,
               I needed to change a setting in the phone for it to work on
               the European band.
2019/01/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:04 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>