Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:02 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2006/2/2-3 [Computer/Rants] UID:41658 Activity:nil
2/1     Bill Gates: Do No Evil
        http://csua.org/u/evf
        \_ He doesn't say that.  He says there's no point in the Chinese
           or other repressive governments to try to with hold information
           because the population will get it anyway.  This is also a back
           handed cover for being evil in the first place ("it doesn't matter
           if we're evil, it has no effect, buy my product!") and is very
           similar to the google excuse for being evil ("evil is good!")
           \_ More, "it's our corporate responsiblity to be evil." Why doesn't
              anybody think of the poor stockholders?
2006/2/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41663 Activity:low
2/1     Why can't we use the Army to stop these border incursions?
        http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060117-121930-3169r.htm
        Oh that's right, someone sent it all to Iraq. My bad.
        \_ Obviously you don't know the law very well. And you don't know
           anything about the military troop strengths either. Put down
           that latte and consider being selfless for once.
           \_ I don't know much about military troop strengths.  But as far
              as the law is concerned, isn't it okay to use US military to
              defend the US border against foreign military?  Is law even an
              issue here?  --- !OP
              \_ I agree with you.  that is why I have always proposed build
                 a Berlin Wall across Mexicon/US border, equipped with
                 land mines, search lights and machine gun towers.  A side
                 effect of this wall would be that it will *FORCE* American
                 to think about how much of our economy is actually depend
                 upon those illegal immigrants... after the fact that our
                 agriculture, hotel, and other industry start to feel the
                 effect of such wall!!
                 \_ The issue here is about incursions by Mexicans in military
                    uniforms and Humvees with guns, not the average illegal
                    immigrants.
                    uniforms and armed Humvees, not the average illegal
                    immigrants.  (Unless you're saying since the Mexican
                    military support our economy by buying Humvees, we have to
                    let them intrude our border.)
                    \_ Please find a non-Moonie reference to the Mexican
                       army being inside our borders.  -tom
                       \_ http://csua.org/u/evj (Yahoo! News)
                          'EL PASO, Texas - It wasn't just Mexican military-
                          style uniforms that suspected drug runners were
                          wearing when they were confronted by Texas lawmen,
                          the Hudspeth County sheriff says.

                          The men carried Mexican military-issue weapons and
                          drove a military Humvee, said Arvin West, whose
                          officers who were involved in the standoff.

                          "It was military," he said Friday. "Due to the
                          pending congressional hearings I can't comment
                          further."'

                          Of course this claim is up for verification, but it
                          shows what the issue is.
                          \_ Heh.  You'd never see this if all you read is
                             the NYT.
                             \_ http://tinyurl.com/7ho7g (NYTimes)
                       \_ Here's something a little more solid than the AP
                          article:
                          http://csua.org/u/evk (latimes.com)
                          Heavily armed personnel in a military-style Humvee
                          from Mexico helped drug smugglers fleeing police to
                          escape back across the border, according to
                          authorities. An internal Border Patrol summary of
                          the incident said the Humvee was equipped with a
                          .50-caliber machine gun. ...
                          "'It's clear you're dealing with a large number of
                          incursions by bona-fide Mexican military units,
                          based on the tactics and the equipment being used,'
                          said T.J. Bonner, a Border Patrol veteran and
                          president of the agents union.
                          Corrupt police or military?  The lead to the article
                          says "Mexican government personnel".
        \_ Because they occasionally kill shepherds and make the US look dumb.
           http://www.dpft.org/hernandez/gallery
        \_ Why don't we use the army to take out the Moonies?
           \_ I am pretty sure that would be a violation of the Posse
              Comitatus act.
              \_ That's crap!  Moonies are wild, untamed!
2006/2/2-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41664 Activity:low
2/2     Misstatement of the Union: The President burnishes the State of the
        Union through selective facts and strategic omissions.
        http://www.factcheck.org/article376.html
        \_ This is the third http://Factcheck.org update I've received in a week.  The
           others are:
           "A DNC TV ad accuses Bush of breaking his word, but it strains some
           facts in the process."
           http://factcheck.org/article373.html
           "A liberal group re-names itself and launches a $1-million ad
           campaign making dubious claims."
           http://factcheck.org/article372.html
           \_ Please, stay on topic. People are spamming the motd with
              partisan pro-Republican bs about the SOTU, so here's a non-
              partisan evaluation of it.
              \_ And people are never spamming motd with partisan anti-
                 Republican bs?
                 \_ Irrelevant. Topic is SOTU. Come back when you have some-
                    thing to say about it.
                    \_ Irrelevant.  It's motd.  People post whatever,
                       wherever, they wish.
                       \_ True, but as a reader, I believe the first guy and
                          think the second is wasting air.  Other readers
                          by definition may think differently. -someone else
2006/2/2-4 [Computer/SW/Virus] UID:41665 Activity:nil
2/2     I use Thunderbird, with gigabytes worth of emails stored locally in
        unix mbox formats.  inevitably, some of these locally stored emails
        contains virus/worms.  They are relatively harmless, being encoded
        in b64 or what not, but I would like to get rid of them.  Is there
        any anti-virus software that actually parse the mbox file
        and remove the virus attachments, instead of dump my entire INBOX
        into a virus vault?   ClamAV used to just dump entire INBOX file into
        a vault.  Norton/8 and Trendmicros doesn't catch any viruses being
        encoded in b64 in a unix mbox.   Thanks in advance.
        \_ Thunderbird 1.5 has an option to allow anti-virus programs to
           quarantine individual messages.  -tom
           \_ thanks.  I didn't upgrade to ThB/1.5 because I was waiting for
              the Calendar extension be implemented.  I will migrate to
              version 1.5 as soon as Calendar extension is available.  --OP
        \_ What's the word?  Thunderbird!
        \_ clamav + formail
           \_ curious... how does it work?  any pointers?
              \_ STFW for RTFM
2006/2/2-3 [Computer/Domains] UID:41666 Activity:nil
2/1     Firefox 1.5.0.1 is out.
        In http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/releases/1.5.0.1.html it says
        "International Domain Name support for Iceland (.is) is now enabled."
        What's so special about the ".is" domain that it was disabled before?
        \_ Iceland now follows Firefox's policy on identical-looking domain
           names.  This is all about names like http://m1cr0s0ft.com, which were a
           minor annoyance in ASCII but have become a major annoyance in
           Unicode.  (For example, search google for "verisign IDN parody
           example".  That's not verisign.)  People have proposed lots of
           solutions, most of which require an impractical amount of work by
           the user (e.g. hover over a domain name to see what character sets
           it uses) or make non-English domain names look ugly (e.g. display
           non-ASCII characters in a different color).  The only decent
           solution so far has been for registrars to do the work, and so
           most registrars now have a policy to prevent two different people
           from registering domain names that look the same.  However, some
           registrars (Verisign) don't do this, so Firefox doesn't display
           Unicode domain names from them.  Whenever a registrar adopts a
           decent policy, they get added to the whitelist (csua.org/u/evq).
           --mconst
        \_ It's probably not that the domain was disabled, it's that
           Firefox will now understand Icelandic characters in domain names.
             -tom
        \_ If you ask me they wanted to test the new update system, and what
           better way than with a relatively innocuous update.  For those
           interested:  According to the site there's also some stability,
           memory leak, and security fixes too.
2006/2/2-4 [Reference/Religion] UID:41667 Activity:nil
2/2     Where can I get a preview of this damaging Mohammed cartoon?
        \_ http://Drudgereport.com
        \_ http://www.technorati.com/search/Muhammad%20cartoon
              ===> http://www.humaneventsonline.com/sarticle.php?id=12146
2006/2/2-4 [Recreation/Food] UID:41668 Activity:moderate
2/2     What is your daily lunch budget?  How much do you spend on lunch
        each day especially Mon-Fri?
        \_ How much do you REALLY save when you bring your own lunch?
           Let's say you spend $8/lunch, and suppose there are 20
           work days a month. That's $160 saving. But what about the
           cost of buying leftovers, raw food, gas/electric, water
           to wash, etc?
           \_ You're kidding, right?
           \_ Are you like the Carl's Jr commercial dude that never
              visits a supermarket? Money is not the main issue here,
              but it is significantly cheaper to cook stuff yourself
              than to buy it at a restaurant. You think restaurant
              only makes money because of economic of scale? ;)
              \_ It depends on what you eat. Often it costs the same to
                 buy the ingredients as it does to buy the food prepared
                 precisely because of economies of scale and wholesale
                 discounts. If I make a lasagna from scratch it costs
                 a lot more than buying some at a restaurant. It tastes
                 better, but that's another issue. However, if I had to
                 feed 200 people with lasagna, I'd probably be better
                 off making it myself in terms of cost. If we were
                 talking about spaghetti and meatballs, though, it's
                 definitely cheaper to make at home. It just depends.
        \_ I bring my own lunch. Healthier than eating out M-F.
           \_ don't you have social pressure to eat with your co-workers?
              \_ I do, we eat in the cafeteria.
        \_ I bring lunch to save money.  Many people at my workplace do.
           \_ I considered doing that though it seems like it's probably
              a good idea to get up a walk at least 10 minutes in each
              direction to reach a fast food restaurant in order to move a
              little and to spend some energy before and after spending the 4
              hours of sitting on a chair and staring at a display ..
              \_ you know how retarded that sounds, right?
              \_ I simply take the stairs instead of the elevator to get around
                 the building.  -- PP
              \_ The display stares into you...
                 \_ We're not in Soviet Russia...
                    \_ That was not a Yakov Smirnoff reference. -!pp
        \_ $5, most days.
        \_ About $5. A daily Subway special + a large coffee drink.
        \_ I usually bring my lunch, mostly due to my wife's insistence, who
           packs one for me daily. On the rare occasion when I eat out, it
           is $7-25 (SF Financial district is expensive)
           \_ Your wife tells you what to eat for lunch?  What do you
              get in return?
              \_ He gets to tell her what to "eat".  (ba dum bum)
              \_ Domestic harmony. You aren't married, are you?
                 \_ Doing everything the bitch says in the name of
                    harmony avoids fights but is still not healthy.
                    \_ But calling her "the bitch" is...
                       \_ Just a descriptive term. I'm not the bitch's
                          husband. I'm only an observer.
                          \_ But not a very keen one.  The Domestic harmony
                             person was not the same poster.  And you're
                             disturbingly quick with very harsh words about
                             people you don't know.
                             \_ Asshole.
                                \_ Dim, you might find that people are willing
                                   to tolerate your stupidity if you are at
                                   least courteous.
                                   \_ You have no sense of humor. Do I
                                      have to use smilies?
                                      \_ No, I got the joke.  I was just
                                         stating the obvious.
                    \_ 1) You're an idiot.  2) I also generally eat
                       whatever my wife comes up with because it's
                       generally healthier, tastier, and cheaper than
                       whatever I would come up with on my own.  It's only
                       being controlled if you're an idiot. (See item 1)
                       -!pp
                       \_ If you say it's cheaper/tastier/whatever that
                          makes sense. Doing it for 'domestic harmony'
                          is idiotic.
                          \_ Uhm, why?  If it makes her happier and it doesn't
                             cost much to do it, then why not -- esp if there
                             are significant health benefits.  Grow up, dude.
                             \_ What else do you do in the name of 'domestic
                                harmony'? What a stupid concession.
                                \_ Heh, c.f. 'grow up'.
        \_ I bring leftovers and nuke them in the cafeteria where coworkers
           spend $6-8/day.
        \_ $6. Civic Center SF, plenty of cheap eats. Good to get out of the
           building.
        \_ $7-10, but I often make lunch my major meal.
        \_ average is $8 ($6 some days $10 others). Cupertino, CA.
        \_ company orders out for us every day, but it comes to $7-15 a
           day roughly.  Davis, CA
        \_ $2-$3 for soup on days that I don't bring leftovers from dinner.
        \_ You guys are boring. No one goes out and has four martinis with
           the boss and then hits a strip club for lunch? Bringing
           leftovers? Soup? Subway? Sheesh.
2006/2/2-4 [Computer/SW/Languages/JavaScript, Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:41669 Activity:kinda low
2/2     Is it just my imagination, or it seems like web sites these days
        are taking longer and longer to load? I used to be able to load
        http://weather.com in less than 1 second, now it takes 5-6 seconds.
        Ditto with http://cnn.com or other common sites.
        \_ Ditto with Yahoo Maps.
        \_ one word: flash
           \_ related, the flashblock extension for FF/Mozilla is wonderful
              \_ yeah, it's great, but i wish there were a way to say
                 "load all movies on this page" or quickly "add this site to
                 allow list"
              \_ Actually, it doesn't keep flash from downloading; you'll note
                 sometimes you see the flash for a brief moment before the
                 (i assume) flashblock onload takes over and replaces it with
                 the blank play thing.  It just keeps you from seeing it.
        \_ Sites these days expect a larger chunk of users to have broadband.
           \_ Sigh.  I switched to DSL in order to load simple pages faster,
              not to deal with pages becoming complicated.
        \_ All that javascript and the style sheets that make the weeb purty
           take a long time to d/l.
           \_ good stylesheets should make the pages load faster.  Probably
              does have something to do with the common use of rollovers and
              the fact that most sites don't have much time spent on
              optimization/valid html.
2006/2/2-4 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast] UID:41670 Activity:nil
2/2     For those interested in the http://latimes.com "about 10% [of oil imports are
        from the Middle East]" vs. the doe.gov link, according to this other
        doe.gov link from the the http://factcheck.org URL, it's very likely that the
        L.A. Times reporter should have written "about 10% of domestic oil
        consumption depends on imports from countries from the Middle East",
        as someone else wrote.
        http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/mer/pdf/pages/sec1_15.pdf
        The math works out about right with the "60.0%" net imports of
        petroleum figure from the above PDF.  I don't want to go through the
        math because the ~ 22% number from yesterday was crude oil, while
        the PDF is for petroleum (crude oil + refined petroleum + whatever)
        and the 60.0% is for net imports (includes U.S. exports I suppose).
        Are you asleep yet?
2006/2/2-4 [Uncategorized] UID:41671 Activity:nil
2/2     The red states are really getting it, heh:
        http://www.weather.com/activities/health/coldandflu/nationalreports/national.html
        \_ The southwest is really getting it.  Almost like it's coming over
           the Mexican border.
2006/2/2-4 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:41672 Activity:high
2/3     Do people really freak out when seeing bones or seeing a fish head
        when eating?
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/01/FDGMRGTIIG1.DTL
        \_ My sister won't eat meat if there's anything to remind her that the
           meat is from an animal.  But somehow the shape of a chicken breast
           muscle doesn't push that button.. People are weird.
           \_ I am guessing you are not Asian.
              \_ You'd be correct.
              \_ So I'm curious. Do you whities think that we Asians are
                 barbaric?              -asian
                 \_ I'm stunned that you would have to ask.  Of course we do,
                    what with your kancho video games and rice bomb cars and
                    those wacky samurai swords.  Are you gonna try and convince
                    me to eat my dog next?  I hope not, cuz that just ain't
                    happening mah brotha...
                    \_ Riceboys ain't yer brotha, white trash.  -- n***er
                    \_ Riceboy ain't yer brotha, white trash.  -- n***er
              \_ You'd be correct.  But this is beyond "not Asian".  It's a
                 sad dissociation that people want to ignore where food comes
                 from.
           \_ I think all kids should be taken hunting and/or fishing
              when they are young. It eliminates BS pussies like your
              sister and teaches respect for nature. I wanted to take my
              9 year old pussy nephew who doesn't eat meat for similar
              reasons duck hunting and his retard mom (similar to your
              sister) has brainwashed him so much that he won't go. The
              only meat he'll eat is pepperoni on pizza. That's just
              plain wrong and (IMO) unhealthy physically and mentally.
                - not OP
        \_ In Japan there is a kind of sashimi where they take a live fish, cut
           out all the flesh off one side of the fish except the head and the
           tail, leaving the whole head, tail, skeleton, and the other side of
           the body intact.  Then they cut the flesh into sashimi, and put it
           back on the fish body.  They they serve it to the table.  When you
           eat the sashimi, the fish is still not dead yet.  Its mouth and tail
           still moves a little.  I tried it once at a restaurant in the
           still move a little.  I tried it once at a restaurant in the
           Kawasaki area called Bikkuri Sushi.  Interestingly, "bikkuri" means
           "surprise".
              \_ I strongly agree.
              \_ I totally agree. If you are going to be a uncivilized
                 barbarian and eat meat, you should be comfortable killing
                 and eating it like a wild animal.
                 If, on the other hand, you want to be a decent civilized
                 human being, eschew meat altogether and be a vegetarian.
                 \_ You grow all your own food?  You only eat food that grows
                    natively in your region without the use of chemicals?  You
                    don't eat food grown else where and brought in by diesel
                    burning trucks and ships?  And why is it ok to eat plants
                    anyway?  Plants are alive, the same as you and your dog,
                    fluffy.
        \_ In Japan there is a kind of sashimi where they take a live fish,
           cut out all the flesh off one side of the fish except the head and
           the tail, leaving the whole head, tail, skeleton, and the other
           side of the body intact.  Then they cut the flesh into sashimi,
           and put it back on the fish body.  They they serve it to the table.
           When you eat the sashimi, the fish is still not dead yet. Its
           mouth and tail still move a little.  I tried it once at a
           restaurant in the Kawasaki area called Bikkuri Sushi.
           Interestingly, "bikkuri" means "surprise".
           \_ A faimly took me out to a restaurant in Tokushima and served me
              this. It was called "ikizukure"(sp?) ("living, twitching")
              sashimi, there. -- ulysses
              \_ Thanks for the name.  I forgot.  It's either ikizukuri or
                 ikezukuri. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikizukuri Check out
                 the picutre link at the bottom.  When I had it, it's even
                 worse.  The chef put the meat right on the body, and I
                 more worse.  The chef put the meat right on the body, and I
                 had to pick the meat off the skeleton.  -- PP
                 \_ There's a sushi place in Bel Air, CA that serves this.
                    \_ Any in the Bay Area?
                 \_ I find that both disgusting and cool.
                    Photos of the process and result:
                    http://www.oak.dti.ne.jp/~koione/english-ikizukuri.html
                    \_ This just seems gratuitously cruel.
                 the picutre link at the bottom.  When I had it, it's even more
                 worse.  The chef put the meat right on the body, and I had to
                 pick the meat off the skeleton.  -- PP
                       \_ It looks like he bonked it on the head first...
           \_ if you want to guarantee freshness, you have proof.
           \_ Do they do anything with the other half of the fish, or does
              that just go to waste?
              \_ After finishing the sashimi, the customer has the option to
                 have the other half cooked into something else.  I had soup
                 cooked from it.  -- PP
        \_ There's this scene in Oldboy where the guy eats a whole live
           octopus, which wriggles all the way down.  This definitely rules.
        \_ I'm fine with fish & meat and the way it's caught and butchered,
           but I really don't need to see it on my plate, staring at me. -John
2006/2/2-4 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:41673 Activity:low
2/3     I am looking for a laptop with the following constraints. Usage
        is word processing and web browsing, light multimedia. Platform
        is Windows (translation apps). Want to get good price for best
        build quality (reliability, nice screen, weight). Caveat is that
        it needs to have a docking station that (somehow) supports 2x
        external monitors (NOT lcd screen and a second monitor). I
        was thinking Thinkpad T43 with a ThinkPad Advanced Dock (which
        supports half height PCI cards). I can spend $2-3k if necessary
        (already have displays). Thoughts? - jhs
        \_ If I were looking for a desktop-replacement laptop, I wouldn't
           consider anything except ThinkPad right now.  I hope Lenovo
           doesn't tuurn them into crap.  -tom
           doesn't turn them into crap.  -tom
2006/2/2-6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:41674 Activity:moderate
2/3     Republican
        \_ SUV
           \_ How do Republicans relate to SUVs? I don't get it.
        \_ Conservative
        \_ NRA
        \_ Fish that sucks blood from inside your ass.
           \_ liberals from Yale talk from their ass.
        \_ Peace and Freedom!
           \_ Whigs!
              \_ Wife-swapping.
        \_ Religious.
        \_ Corrupt
        \_ EEEEEVVVVVVVUUUUUULLLLLLL!!!!!!  And they stole our "ic"!  PETTY!
           I love the motd.  In a single stroke so open mindedly dismissing
           about half the entire country with one word labels.
           \_ I think most of these have the politicians in mind, not
              necessarily the voters.
              \_ Not me.  I have contempt for the Republican politicians,
                 but not as much as for the voters.
              \_ Pft, as if.  <My party> is full of sweetness and light, but
                 we all know <opposition party> sucks and is evil.
           \_ You're a moron. Not republicans in general, just you.
              \_ *laugh* Thanks for the compliment.  I'm glad to have helped
                 you focus your wrath on specific individuals instead of
                 150,000,000 people you don't know.  Think of it as a growth
                 opportunity.
                 \_ You're overestimating, probably by 2x or more.
        \_ An unabashed terrorist that lies, abuses power, and ruins
           people's lives for personal gain under the cover of spreading
           "freedom" around the world
           \_ Ob: "<Myparty> is pristine and pure and goodness and light, but
              <Yourparty> is villainous and scummy and evil and corrupt and
              abusive".
2006/2/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:41675 Activity:nil
2/2     http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/02/02/obit.clinton
        Clinton is dead! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa
2006/2/2-4 [Industry/Startup] UID:41676 Activity:low
2/2     Hi, does your company offer bounties/bonuses if you refer someone
        that your company ends up hiring?  If so, how much is the bounty to
        the referrer?  Thanks.
        \_ Yes.  $3k
        \_ Yes, don't know how much since I never got it.
        \_ Yes.  /csua/pub/jobs/AvantGo, damn it!  --dbushong
        \_ Apple, yes. Was $1,000, dropped to $500 but every now and then
           they'll go on a recruiting spree and offer $3k or $5k for
           HW or SW engineers.
        \_ $2500-$4500
        \_ No :-(    -referrer
        \_ $3k for certain positions but nothing for most.
2006/2/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:41677 Activity:nil
2/2     http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060202/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_leak_1
        Ignore who is the source of which quote, but what's the difference
        between the sentences below:
        (1) In an abundance of caution, we advise you that we have learned
        that not all e-mail of the Office of Vice President and the Executive
        Office of the President for certain time periods in 2003 was preserved
        through the normal archiving process on the White House computer
        system.
        (2) Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald is raising the possibility that
        records sought in the CIA leak investigation could be missing because
        of an e-mail archiving problem at the White House.
2006/2/2 [Uncategorized] UID:41678 Activity:nil
2/2     [Deleted by op because of dullness]
2006/2/2 [Politics/Domestic] UID:41679 Activity:very high
2/2     Democrat
        \_ Condones anal sex. EVILLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!
        \_ enjoy having interns suck dick. EVILLLLL!!!!
        \_ The guy at the party who gives coke to everyone, but still no one
           likes him.
        \_ Didn't inhale.
        \_ Depends on what the definition of "is" is.
2006/2/2-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Reference/Military] UID:41681 Activity:nil
2/2     http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1573959&page=2
        $1.3 BILLION dollars to buy FIVE Joint Strike Fighters.
        You've got to be shitting me right?
        \_ The Generals are always fighting the last war.
        \_ That's not that much for a new plane. It's probably 3000
           engineers working for 5 years or more to design and build that.
           If you want to be shocked look at the submarine - $2.5 billion and
           its not a new design, AFAIK. BTW, I just checked and the JSFs
           will cost about $50 million each when built in quantity.
           \_ Plus the fact that they will be sold to "allies" once
              production gets up to full speed.
        \_ Cheap.  If they're even half as good as the hype they're worth
           it.  The best war is the one you don't have to fight because the
           other guy doesn't bother showing up.  A sub for $2.5B isn't so
           bad either.  That's what?  2 days in Iraq?  What's a carrier cost
           these days?  Add that to the cost of the air craft on board, the
           support fleet of subs, DDs, CAs, etc, and see how much a fleet
           costs.  Policing the world isn't cheap.  Buying top notch planes
           is dirt cheap for what they do.
           is dirt cheap for what they do.
2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:02 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>