1/8 Re: Abramoff. Transcript of Howard Dean on with Wolf Blitzer, CNN.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0601/08/le.01.html
"There are no Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff, not one,
not one single Democrat. Every person named in this scandal is a
Republican. Every person under investigation is a Republican. Every
person indicted is a Republican. This is a Republican finance scandal.
There is no evidence that Jack Abramoff ever gave any Democrat any
money. And we've looked through all of those FEC reports to make sure
that's true."
\_ I hope Howard Dean knows what is he talking about. I vaguely
remember Abramoff also paid lavish trips for Democrats as well.
\_ Replubican lies.
\_ How would you know? Do you have special insider info?
Like everything else, this will be investigated, maybe a
few people will resign from one or both parties and nothing
will change because politicians are corrupt.
\_ sheesh. take a chill pill. My point is that Republicans
have been spreading the message that Abramoff paid $$ to
Dems. And that's the reason why he "vaguely remembers"
this.
\_ You didn't have a point if you wrote "Republican lies".
That isn't a point. It is partisan noise.
\_ I expanded it in the pp. make sense now?
\_ Do you think that politicians everywhere are corrupt?
I do not. Why are politicians in some other countries
less corrupt? Could we perhaps figure out why and reform
our system to be more like theirs?
\_ I think all career politicians are corrupt. What county
did you have in mind where they are less so?
\_ I am a democrate. but i just don't think Abramoff is so
stupid that he only oil up Republicans. And Democrats
are not exactly clean neither... just that they are not
nearly as blatant as Republicans under Bush's reign.
\_ I think all career politicians are corrupt. What county
did you have in mind where they are less so?
\_ "Democrats' Travel Costs Linked to Lobbyist" [Washington Post]
http://csua.org/u/ejn
Is this a Republican plant? Reading Dean carefully, do paid
trips show up in FEC reports?
\_ http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7723344/page/2 has a lot more
details.
"Clyburn said in an interview he had never heard of
Abramoff at the time, and provided a copy of a letter
showing he was invited by the nonprofit foundation."
The sum total of both trips was ~$4.5-5k airfare and a
$227 hotel bill per Congressman. This is proof that
Abramoff paid for "lavish trips." It sounds like first
class plane travel, and a nice night in a good hotel, but
"lavish?" And I don't know about you, but I don't think
a $5k first class plane ticket buys much influence in
Washington these days.
Certainly, Dean was careful with his language, and these
were not filed with the FEC. However, "Both Clyburn and
Thompson filed House disclosure reports showing the
[nonprofit] group paid for the travel." Apparently,
these reports are now incorrect, but they were filed b/c
at the time, Clyburn and Thompson "weren't told the
foundation that invited them never put up the money."
Considering the point of lobbying is to direct money to
the congressmen in order to curry favor with them, not
telling the congressman that you gave them money doesn't
curry much favor.
Clyburn and Thompson may turn out to be Democratic
sleazeballs. Who knows? But $5,000 of disclosed money
received doesn't swing the pendulum of corruption from
red to purple.
\_ Hey, my post was only in response to the quick
"Republican lies" claim above. -pp
\_ Direct quotes from the congressmen or staff:
http://www.contrarianreview.com/lobbyist.html
Clyburn:
"The invitation was signed by a chairman of the Joint
Chiefs. What was I supposed to believe?"
- The letter said the Congressional delegations would
"be paid for by the nonprofit N.S.C. Foundation, and
they will not involve any cost to the US government."
Thompson staff:
"He received an invitation from a nonprofit group to go
down and visit the islands. It was a legitimate trip.
And once he returned from the trip, he complied with
House rules and filed the required ethics forms."
\_ Man, the spin is coming hard and fast now. Do you
\_ point A
even read your *own* source? The letter was signed
by Thomas Moorer, who was the *former* Chairman of
the Joint Chiefs. Hello, "former", as in 1970 to
1974? Meaning Moorer was a private citizen at the
time of the invitation. Since the writers of the
article knew Moorer was only the former Chairman,
and they didn't call Clyburn on it, you have to wonder
why not and where their bias lies. As to point 2,
\_ point B.
as the WaPo article said, "Greg Hilton [the director
of the group] understood at the outset that the
expenses would be covered by 'the private sector'".
Hilton was later told that the government would
cover the costs, but barring more evidence, it's
hard to say if Clyburn was told specifically if the
trip were covered by private or public funds.
\_ You're absolutely right. We should impeach and
fire all politicians who took money from
Abramoff, regardless of political affiliation.
If that ends up being more Dems than Repubs, fine.
\_ A+B: your own biases and paranoia are showing
through. You don't address the points, but rather
attack the news source as being biased. Oh, yes,
and you accuse pp of "spin" when the whole post
is pretty much direct quotes. |