Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:December:21 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/12/21-23 [Consumer/Camera] UID:41101 Activity:low
12/21   Camera advice.  I want to get into medium format for *CHEAP*
        preferablely $400 including a light meter.  Right now, only thing
        fit the bill is Chinese made Seagull.   Since none of my 35mm gears
        were bought it new, I am certainlly don't mind getting an used camera.
        Aside from built-in light meter which I dont think I can get given
        the price constraint, I would like to have following features:
        * single action for film advance
        * shutter speed and apature info in view finder
        * use standard film, 120 or 220.  I can live with 120 alone.
        * less than 25 years old.
        Any recommendation on what kind of used TLR I should get?  what are
        the good and cheap models?  What kind of caveat I should watch out?
        and finally, I want to buy a cheap light meter along with it.  any
        recommendations and pointers?  thanks           kngharv
        \_ quick google search:
           ebay revealed the Hasselblad 500C/M starter kits (used) for ~$600.
           ebay also shows a lot of Kiev cameras, for ~$250.  If price is
           a big issue, the Kiev's might work well. I figure it's nice to
           work on a Hasselblad knockoff as you can eventually switch to the
           real thing.
           \_ also:
        \_ thanks all.  I am leaning toward Yashica 124 now.
        \_ I was in the same situation a bit back.  I ended getting the
           Yashicamat LM.  I've had some fun with it.  You have to be very
           careful with film advance.  I've heard that Yashica's film advance
           aren't smooth as Rollei's, and it seems right in my case.  If I
           advance too fast, it won't advance evenly.  Make sure you understand
           that there's Yashica set of models and Yashica-MAT set of models.
           They may have the same model number and whatnot, but will be
           different.  Yashicamat 124 is really popular and fetch a premium on
           ebay these days.  So if you can live with just 120, you can save
           money by going with the LM or the like as I did.  This is a good
           info site on Yashica TLRs:
           \_ LOL.  I think i can fetch an ok condition Yashica 124G for $210.
              Then I need to send it to get it cleaned and adjusted (especially
              adjust the light meter for the non-mercury), adding a lens
              hood, it will be more than $400 :p  How do you deal with
              mercury battery issue?
        \_ If you don't mind have a viewfinder camera instead of a TLR, check
           out the Holga cameras at B&H.  New ones are selling for less than
           \_ Holgas are a different breed.  People like them for having a
              sharp center/blurred edges as well as the looks the lightleaks
              create.  You can easily get past the lightleak issue with some
              black artist/masking tapes.  That said, an unmodified Holga
              should go for no more that $25 new unless you want the hotshoe.
        \_ Doesn't medium format development and printing cost a lot?  Even if
           you get a camera for cheap, medium format photography still won't be
           cheap overall.
           \_ none of my gear cost more than $300 per piece, but the
              development for one trip can easily cost more than that.  This
              is why I rather spend the money on developing, scanning, and
              printing films than drop thousands on a camera.  --OP
              \_ Just curious, why do you want to get into medium format?  I
                 was told that the the aspect ratios in medium format (3:4,
                 1:1, 6:7) are more pleasing than the 2:3 ratio in 35mm.  But
                 then I thought I can crop develop & print 35mm pictures for
                 cheap and then crop them to the medium format ratios.  I
                 inherited a Yashica D from my uncle a year ago, and I still
                 haven't shot anything with it yet.
2005/12/21-23 [Computer/Networking] UID:41102 Activity:nil
12/21   Anyone used IPv6 6to4 tunnels from consumer ISPs in northern CA?
        I tried to make one work from a friend's astound cable modem and
        the incoming protocol 41 packets seem to be lost. I am wondering
        if it is the ISP dropping them, the cable modem, or the D-Link
        router between his modem and my "co-lo" server.  --karlcz
2005/12/21-23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41103 Activity:moderate
12/21   Republicans declare political suicide, demand elderly and poor
        run them out of office: (Washington Post)
        (Actual title:  With Cheney's Vote, Senate Passes Budget Bill)
        \_ This is the most bizarre bill I've seen from congress in a long
           time.  It's practically a caricature of the Evil Republicans.  I
           don't understand why congress didn't chop out $40B in pork instead
           of this. -emarkp
           \_ Probably because pork fights back.
        \_ The poor are religious.  They'll vote with their faith.
           \_ Troll harder.  This one is pathetic.  Young Troll, you are FIRED!
              \_ Eh, while there is a heavy element of trollishness to the
                 post, there is still a kernel of truth in what he said.
                 \_ More than a kernel.  Poor white southerners overwelmingly
                    vote GOP.  This may be partly a racism thing, but I think
                    that's much less a factor than the bible shit.  Maybe pp
                    thinks all those scare tactics about gay marriage were
                    targeted at college educated, middle class people?
                    Convincing the powerless to support the powerful of their
                    own free will has been the main purpose of organized
                    relgion for thousands of years, and the GOP happens to
                    be better at this game and evil enough to exploit it
                    shamelessly right now.
                    \_ 'a racism thing'?  Do you mean 'racial' or 'ethnic' or
                       am I misreading what you're saying?
                       \_ Have you ever been to the south?
                          \_ Yes.  I'm not disputing that there's racism in
                             in the South -- I'm just having trouble parsing
                             the PP's use of the word in that context.  Is
                             PP calling himself a racist?  It just seems like
                             a different word seems to fit the context better.
                             \_ Yes, bad choice of words, sorry.  I meant the
                                GOP's "southern strategy", in general.
                                If Nixon had not figured out how to use
                                "states rights" as a
                                code word for opposition to civil rights
                                reforms, those worthless fucks would all
                                still be voting Democrat because Abe
                                Lincoln started the "war of northern agression".
                                \_ Ah, I see -- thanks for clarifying!
                    \_ I would agree with you on this if the current bill
                       didn't make severe cuts to Medica[id|re]. That's a
                       sacred cow for a whole lot of poor white folks, race
                       and sexual orientation issues aside.
                       \_ Bullshit.  Let's see what happens in 2008, and how
                          many of these deep south states leave the GOP.
                          Maybe in the north, you're right.  But the demographic
                          we're talking about here believes the Earth was
                          created 6000 years ago and that homosexuals should
                          be jailed for crimes against God.  As far as I'm
                          concerned, they're not even Americans, and there's
                          no way they'll stop thumping their bibles for long
                          enough to change parties over some nerdy policy
                          issue that doesn't involve the Old Testament.
                          \_ Whatever you may think of them, they'll squeal
                             when they realize their holy entitlements have
                             finally been fucked with. Cf. the Pres. inability
                             to shitcan Social Security. You won't have to
                             wait for '08; a number of Senators are up for
                             re-election in '06.
                             \_ Bush and his cronies fear middle class
                                mid-western swing voters, who will switch
                                parties over social security.  It's not
                                the poor southern white trash that they
                                were afraid of with the social security
                          \_ Yes, remember, all people who vote or think
                             differently than you are utterly comtemptible
                             hateful trogs.  You have private access to the
                             only one true way of clear thought.  All others
                             are darkly evil or just plain stupid.  You are
                             my hero.  You represent all that is good and
                             pure and clean in this country!
           \_ Young Troll, the Young Troll Hiring & De-Hiring Committee has
              received updated notice from the Sub-Committee On Young Troll
              Quality Control and as per their advice has determined you shall
              continue in your present role as Young Troll at current rate.
              You do not need to report to the Young Troll Food Vat for
              Additional Services.  You're doing a fine job!  Carry on!
        \_ I believe now that the voting majority is now cut off from
           actual policy feedback. They vote on sloganeering and perceived
           cultural ideology. Some parts of this bill are sickening.
        \_ Repubs are the party of the middle class.  Screwing the poor
           shouldn't be a surprise.
           \_ Voting Dem is better somehow?
           \_ Bull. Republicans are the party of the filthy rich. Middle
              class Americans identify with the GOP because they hope to be
              filthy rich themselves some day. Hopefully, mucking about with
              Medicare/Medicaid will wake some of these people up.
              \_ Most of the truly wealthy in this country are the ultra
                 rich.  Who else can afford to be a Democrat?
                 \_ MOst of working-class Boston.
2005/12/21-23 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:41104 Activity:nil
12/21   I have a complex chuck of C code, and somewhere it in, I'm freeing
        a bad pointer.  However, this doesn't happen if I run it under
        gdb.  Does anyone know how I can figure out where it's crashing?
        \_ Valgrind is usually pretty good at finding this stuff.  It's slow,
           though.  If the program runs under FreeBSD, you can try running it
           with MALLOC_OPTIONS=AJX.
        \_ Is it running in gdb that causes the crash or is it running
           a debug build that causes the crash?  Debug builds null all
           memory at allocation, I believe there is a way you can tell
           gcc to set all the memory to some other value than null instead.
           If all memory is nulled then freeing that null value will do
           nothing, but in the non debug mode you will free a random int
           and boom, your code will crash.
           \_ No, running in gdb DOESN'T crash.  Running it normally does.
              \_ It's obviously freeing an uninitialized pointer.  In a
                 a debug build all allocated memory is nulled so you are
                 going to free null, which is valid and doesn't cause a
                 crash.  There is a way to make debug builds (or maybe gdb)
                 not null out memory.  It has been a while since I debugged
                 c, but I know for a fact that is your issue.
              \_ try attaching to the pid after it starts?
        \_ gdb the core dump
           \_ I don't seem to have a core dump.  It just seg faults. (on
              linux)  Is there a way to force a core dump when it frees a
              bad pointer?  (Sometimes it gives an error: free(): invalid
              pointer 0x9091420!)
              \_ Don't segfaults dump core?  Do you have ulimit set to 0?
                 \_ ulimit in unlimited.  Apprently they don't always
                    \_ Is it setuid?  -tom
                       \_ no.
        \_ Above suggestion, and this sort of failure-to-reproduce could mean
           the bug is in something time-dependant, either using a clock, net IO
           or bad synchronization between threads.  Heisenbugs suck.
           \_ I think it's because I have lots of if(x) {free(x);} stuff.
              I could see this happening if I didn't initialize all my
              pointers to NULL.  (I understand gdb helpfully
              automatically initilizes pointers to NULL for you.) However,
              I can't find any uninitialized variables.
              \_ if (x) { free(x); } is pointless if you're using the standard
                 C library.  free(NULL) is a no-op.  Also, if it's a Heisenbug,
                 check that you're not overflowing stack frames.  If you're
                 worried about uninitialized variables, make sure you compile
                 with all compiler warnings on.
                 \_ Good point.
        \_ How about doing some good old-fashioned trace logging to pinpoint
           the crash?  Unless trace logging prevents the crash from happening
           as well!
2005/12/21-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41105 Activity:nil
12/21   Does Santa work for BUSHCO?
        \_ Santa only pawn in game of Life:
2005/12/21-22 [Reference/Religion, Recreation/Media] UID:41106 Activity:high
12/21   emarkp, did you ever see the South Park episode about the Mormons?
        They make the Joseph Smith story look pretty ridiculous.  Are they
        misrepresenting it in any major way?  If so, how?
        \_ Didn't see it--don't watch South Park.  jrleek gave a short review
           of it a while back:
           [addendum: I typically don't turn to comedy cartoons for historical/
           factual insight.] -emarkp
           \_ Ok thanks. By the way I thought you hate kchang's guts and
              you're boycotting his crappy web site, why are you using
              it now?
              \_ I wasn't boycotting it, nor do I hate his guts.  I find the
                 archive quite useful, but the "guessing the identity" feature
                 to be a serious problem (which is part of the "diff" part, not
                 the archive proper).
                 \_ I find no distinction between his crappy products. If
                    one part of his program is poorly written, how can you
                    trust other parts of the program, such as the archiver?
           \_ Thanks for the link.  Do you have a URL to an accurate summary
              of the Mormon take on historical events that the tablets/BoM/
              whatever talked about?
              \_ I can point you to historical overviews of the LDS church from
                 the LDS perspective.  Critics will say that we're hiding the
                 ugly parts of history, but I've never seen an even-handed
                 handling of the religion and history.  I've heard good reviews
                 of a new book called "Rough Stone Rolling" which is supposed
                 to be precisely that, but I haven't read it yet. -emarkp
2005/12/21 [Uncategorized] UID:41107 Activity:nil
12/21   [Why was this here twice?]
2005/12/21-23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:41108 Activity:high
        The Native Americans who live in ANWR want drilling there.  And it's
        supposed to be their land.
        \_ And if our history's taught us anything, it's that the Native
           Americans make excellent choices about what to do w/ their land.
           \_ Uh?  What?  When or how exactly uh... wtf are you talking about?
              \_ He's probably talking about Indian Gaming.
                 \_ Then he has no idea what he's talking about.
        \_ You misspelled "Some of the Native Americans."  There are two
           tribes there, one of which initially opposed drilling and now
           supports it, and one of which still opposes it.  -tom
               \- in general i think a lot of liberals are cowed
                  by conservatives saying "are you saying group
                  X is stupid and doesnt know what is in their
                  own best interests?" ... i think liberals would
                  often be wise not to fall for this and say "yes,
                  people do often make dumb decisions for themselves
                  either via ignorance or weakness or lazyness etc".
                  \_ Exactly why direct democracy initiatives in California
                     are such a failure.
                     \- well i think there are other factors at play there
                        [single issue voters, persistent, disinformation etc]
                        but i dont have time to write more about that now.--psb
                     \_ how are they a failure?
                  however in this case there is another argument which
                  is the dilution factor. the benefits of ANWR drilling
                  "amortized" over everone in the US is trivial but
                  if the locals [indians or alaskans] are bought off
                  [which they are] then even if it is "in their backyard"
                  [so maybe they pay 10x the "cost"] it may make sense
                  to be in favor since they may reap 100x the benefits.
                  if there were a national referendum on ANWR drilling
                  how much would you ell your vote for? $25? (my personal
                  position on ANWR has more to do with the terms of
                  selling national endowments to private interests rather
                  than "oooh, nature must not be harmed." so i think about
                  it in the same way as water subsidies to farmers or
                  western grazing rights to Big Cattle, or how mining
                  rights are granted, frequency auctions etc.) --psb
           \_ Oh, you mean the Gwich'in?  They can drill on other parts of
              their land and have nice checks rolling in that the Inupiat
              \_ As far as state politics goes, part of the point here is
                 that *everyone* who lives in Alaska has checks rolling in
                 every year from oil money(actually interest on money set aside
                 in the 70's oil boom).  The majority of Alaskans of
                 all races are in favor of drilling for that reason.  Alaskans
                 who are willing to go against their economic interests on
                 this issue are a few local natives, and the liberal population
                 who mostly live in Juneau, Anchorage, and a few hippie towns
                 on the Kenai peninsula.  I should probably mention that I'm
                 from Juneau and oppose drilling, although my personal reasons
                 are closer to psb's than to that of the typical
                 \_ How big are the checks?  It can't be that much.  Does
                    everyone who lives there qualify?
                    \_ It's about a grand a year for every man, woman, and
                       child.  So for a big family living out in the bush, that
                       can make a big difference.  And don't forget there are
                       no state sales or income taxes, and they want to keep
                       it that way.  One thing I've wondered about is whether
                       it's more profitable in the long run to pump out the
                       oil, sell it, put the money in a fund(they call it the
                       PFD) and invest that fund as they have done, or to
                       leave it there until the price goes crazy, *then*
                       pump it.
                       \_ thanks, that's what I was looking for.
                    \- two things:
                       1. the issue is the marginal increase in the checks if
                          ANWR drilling foes through, not the absolute size
                          of the checks
                       1. the issue is the marginal increase in the checks
                          (benefits) if ANWR drilling foes through, not the
                          absolute size of the checks(benefits).
                       2. the benefits are not just caputured by the size of
                          the checks ... you also have to factor in perhaps
                          higher level of state services provided, what
                          the state taxes would be otherwise etc.
                          the state taxes would be otherwise i.e. paying
                          $10k in state taxes and getting a fund check for $12k
                          vs having no state taxes and getting a check for $2k.
           \_ I know someone who lived up in the ANWR area, teaching in one
              of the villages.  My impression from him is that both the native
              and white local population are bitterly divided over the issue.
              I think he said that both natives and whites are sort of 50/50.
              \_ Nice overwrite dumbass.
              \_ Did you read George Will's awesome editorial saying that
                 we should all be for drilling in ANWR because
                 environmentalism == Communism? - danh
                 \_ No, but I doubt anyone would say, "We should drill in XYZ
                    because otherwise the communist will win!" as you describe
                 \_ George Will wrote an editorial saying, "We must drill or
                    the communists will win!"?  Unlikely.
                    \_ - danh
                    \_ the bigger issue is energy independence.  I remember
                 American Science Foundation had a study saying that if we
                 increase our automobile's fuel efficiency by 15%, we would
                 save twice as much oil as Anwr's reserve in the span of
                 couple years.
                 \_ Why not do both?  Conservation alone only delays the
                    inevitable.  Conservation by definition doesn't create
                    new sources of anything.  So with conservation we push
                    this decision back a few years and then what?  Also, you
                    can only eek so much fuel efficiency from a vehicle.  There
                    are still some basic physical laws we need to follow re:
                    mass, energy, heat loss, acceleration, etc.
                 \_ In other, totally unrelated, news, congressional budget
                    cuts to lead to layoffs of 100 scientists at the National
                    Renewable Energy Lab
           [Rocky Mountain News]
                    "In fiscal 2006, Congress cut the Department of Energy's
                    budget for all renewable energy programs by more than 35
                    percent."  Amazing.
                    \_ Blah, as if they're the only people who got cut. The
                       budget is public.  Go see who else got cut to ribbons.
                    \_ Posting again because someone didn't like reality:
                       All sorts of DOE budgets got cut.  The budget is public.
                       Go look up who else got axed.  The RE guys weren't a
                       special target like you imply.
                       \_ I implied nothing of the kind.
                          \_ Then there should be nothing amazing about some
                             particular program getting a cut.
                             \_ Really?  And if it were the Marine Corps, right
                                before a major ground war, how would you feel
                                then?  This is a national security issue.
                                \_ Uh oh, you're not about to go off about the
                                   Peak Oil thing, are you?
                       \_ I implied nothing of the kind, you fucking twat.
                          What would your reaction be if they laid off, say,
                          ten percent of the senior officers in the Marine
                          Corps right now?  This is a national security issue,
                          and congress just doesn't seem to get that.  And
                          why should they, when their job is to represent
                          morons like you?
                                   \_ PEEK OIL!!!!!1!1!!!
2005/12/21-23 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:41109 Activity:low
12/21   I understand that the transit strike is causing huge headaches in
        NYC, but I don't get how a Judge can impose fines on the strikers
        if the strike itself is legal. Help?
        \_ "for the illegal strike" Umm.. it's not legal.
           \_ eee!
           The Taylor Law, passed in 1967, prohibits public employees in the
           state of New York from going on strike, instead requiring management
           and the union to ultimately settle their differences via binding
           arbitration conducted by a neutral third party.
           \_ Thank you, that's very informative. -op
           \_ I lived in NYC and have little sympathy for the MTA workers.
              Having said that, If you remove the power of strike from Union,
              you are essentially remove the only teeth Union has, no?
              \_ Fuck 'em.
              \_ Are they allowed to quit? Is slavery legal again?
                 \_ in the good old days, we have no minimum wage,
                    no minimum age, and labor union was illegal.
                    Are you saying that we should go back to those days
                    and let iron hand of wages to do its work?
                    \_ Union members are allowed to terminate the employment,
                       while the employers aren't.  Is that fair?
                       \_ Misrepresentation of facts. Employers are allowed to
                          terminate employment; they are simply required to
                          follow strict guidelines to ensure that they do so
                          in a socially just manner (i.e., not just because
                          you wouldn't sleep with them).
              \_ isn't it fair if both sides go to binding arbitration?
2005/12/21-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41110 Activity:nil
        Paranoid German woman who won the lottery didn't want to
        claim the prize. German women rule.
        \_ Rule?  What is so great about having experienced such shit that
           when something good happens she thinks its a scam?
2005/12/21-22 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:41111 Activity:nil
12/21   What's the difference between a real estate agent and a realtor?  Thx.
        \_ Main Entry: Re·al·tor
           Pronunciation: 'rE(-&)l-t&r, -"tor, ÷'rE-l&-t&r also rE-'al-t&r
           Function: collective mark
           -- used for a real estate agent who is a member of the National
           Association of Realtors
2019/01/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:December:21 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>