Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:December:14 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/12/14-15 [Reference/Military, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41009 Activity:moderate
12/13   Haha.  McCain no-torture amendment says "Follow the Army Field Manual."
        Pentagon changes field manual.  Go Dubya!
        \_ So do we have to have a three screen long flame war about the
           definition of the word "lie" to say Rice was lying now?  Or can
           we just agree that she was lying right through her teeth by
           any definition?
           \_ ObThatDependsOnWhatTheDefinitionOfIsIs.
           \_ It's a lie whatever we say is a lie.
        \_ url?
2005/12/14-15 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:41010 Activity:low
12/13   Remember the first time you saw a9 or google maps and said "WOW!"?
        Here's something from Microsoft that's pretty cool as well. Go to
        your favorite destination and then click on "Bird's Eye Imagery"
        \_ when they get out of beta, it'll be cool.  for now, it's godly
           slow and chunky.  google earth was there so much sooner, with
           a much better product (go figure, eh?).
           and it doesn't cover nearly enough cities.
           \_ WOW, I didnt realize we had such a committed Microsoft
              apologist here.  It *is* so slow and clunky it is
              unusable.  And is this supposed to be useful or just
              going for a "wow"?  Google maps is useful, eventhough it
              does list some strange search matches.  A site that has
              random aerial pictures is just a site that has random
              aerial pictures.  It isn't a useful mapping site.
              \_ Dude, did you read the previous post? You both agree.
2005/12/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41012 Activity:nil
        Video Expert (James?), which of the three, quicktime, real, or
        WindowsMedia tend to have best quality in the above URL link? thx
        \_ Beats me.  Watch them and judge for yourself. --jameslin
2005/12/14-16 [Reference/Religion] UID:41013 Activity:high
12/14   Interesting maps of US religious distributions. I guess the
        stereotypes are true.
        \_ I didn't realize the South was so Baptist.  and so un-Catholic
           too.  The Mormon map was entertaining.
        \_ You know, with the proper demogoguery, perhaps we could get
           some regional religious strife going on, like between the
           Southern Baptists and the Utah Mormons...
           \_ There's been historic friction between precisely those two groups
              for quite a while.  It's in the last few years that it's been
              decreasing. -emarkp
              \_ Btw can you attempt to explain the Mormon view of Father, Son,
                 and Holy Ghost? Is it polytheism?
                 \_ We don't believe it's polytheism. We reject the "homoousia"
                    of the Nicene Creed though.  And we don't get caught up in
                    the "filioque" issue that divides Western and Orthodox
                    churches. -emarkp
                    \_ You're too busy using your own Bible (BoM) and
                       inventing your own story of Jesus to worry about
                       minute details. If MAJOR issues like that exist
                       then why split hairs?
                       \_ /My/ Bible is the King James Version.  The Book of
                          Mormon is an additional document, not a replacement.
                          I also like to use the NASB for study, and I've
                          learned a bit of Greek for NT reference--my personal
                          greek copy is a Nestle intralinear.  -emarkp
                          \_ Not a replacement but, correct me if I am
                             wrong, considered authoritive when there are
                             conflicts. In that aspect it is a replacement in
                             the same way the New Testament replaces the Old
                             Testament. No one else accepts the BofM except
                             Mormons, which is *THE* issue. What does arguing
                             minutiae matter at that point? It's like
                             comparing the Muslim Christ with the Christian
                             one. The bigger issue is that Mohammed guy.
                             \_ Consider yourself corrected.  Where the BoM
                                disagrees with extra-Biblical tradition, it is
                                authoritative.  The Bible has passages that
                                contradict itself, yet that doesn't nullify the
                                Bible.  Yes, only LDS and its offshoots accept
                                the BoM as scripture--so what?  Your claim of
                                the BoM being "our own" Bible is false.  Thanks
                                for playing. -emarkp
                                \_ So what about the last part in
                                Revelation where it claims the Bible to be
                                final and complete? How does BoM fit into
                                that? Here are some others:
                                \_ "This page cannot be found." Hahaha!
                                   \_ Fixed.
                                \_ Wow, a whole list of canards.  I'll go
                                   ahead and respond to the one you list.
                                   You know revelation was written BEFORE
                                   John's gospel and his epistles?  Not
                                   only that, but you know the Bible
                                   wasn't compiled for > 200 years after
                                   John wrote that?  Obviously it doesn't
                                   mean what you think it means, or half
                                   the bible would be invalid too.
        \_ I'm so moving to Oregon.
           \_ You know, religion != scary.
              \_ Try telling that to <fill-in-the-victims>.
                 \_ Yeah, that's as profound and insightful as a bumper
                    sticker.  In other words, not.
                    \_ Yeah, that's as profound and insightful as a bumper
                       sticker.  In other words, not.
              \_ Being surrounded by people who believe that their fate rests
                 in the hands of an imaginary all-powerful being, consider it
                 their duty to make sure you believe in the exact same version
                 of this entity, and for whom this belief dictates their
                 choice of who should run this country and how...  yes, it is
                 \_ Well, you're talking about Iran, not the US.  1) your
                    assertion that the being is imaginary is not indisputed
                    fact, 2) it's pretty much only Islam that feels it's their
                    duty to "make sure you believe" exactly the same thing.
                    Most Christians believe it's important to share what they
                    believe and urge you to consider it, but not force you to
                    agree. -emarkp
                    \_ Replace "Most" with "Some" and you're right.  --PM
                       \_ No, I think it's "most". -emarkp
                          \_ Yeah, I think this is probably correct.  In my
                             (admittedly limited and biased) experience, most
                             of the religious people I've met rarely mention
                             god unless I've brought up the topic. That doesn't
                             mean there aren't some truly scary christian
                             freaknuts in every denomination who tend to really
                             squick out non-religious people disproportionately
                             to their numbers....               -mice
                    \_ The Evangelical faction of Christianity holds power at
                       the moment.  You understand what "Evangelical" means,
                       right?  Hint: definition #4 in dict.  And as for
                       "disputed"  Uh, everything's disputed.  5-year-olds
                       will dispute the non-existence of the Easter Bunny.
                       \_ Yes, it means evangelize.  Which means sharing their
                          beliefs and urging others to accept them.  It doesn't
                          mean forcing, etc. -emarkp
                          \_ So changing local laws to make things in the 10
                             commandments illegal isn't forcing?  The huge
                             pro-life lobby isn't forcing the rest of
                             America to share its views?
                             \_ bad troll.  no cookie.
                                \_ Why is that a troll?  The guy actually
                                   raises a valid example of religious people
                                   attacking rights from a perspective
                                   almost strictly based on their religious
                                   beliefs.  (perhaps better exmples could
                                   have been fielded, but the point
                                   exemplified is still valid).    -mice
                                   \_ The 10 Commandments are a big part of the
                                      foundation of western civilization.
                                      \_ yeah, that's why you never see
                                         graven images around here.
                                         (You have no clue.)  -tom
                                      \_ They are no part of it. Western
                                         civilization goes back to the
                                         Greeks and Romans. They somehow
                                         managed to get things done without
                                         those commandments.
                                         \_ Where's ilyas to tell us they had
                                            "Christian values"?
                             \_ Please cite examples of anyone trying
                                to force the 10 commandments into law.
                                I've never heard of anyone trying to put
                                1-5,10 into modern law. 6,8, and 9, ARE in
                                modern law (for good reason).  The only
                                case I can see an argument on is 7.
                          \_ I'm trying to track exactly who first said
                             "forcing", oh right.  That was you.
                             \_ I responded to "their duty to /make sure/ you
                                believe..." -- sounds like forcing to me.
                                \_ IMO, there's a problem when "sharing and
                                   urging" drifts into "legislating" and
                                   "religiously motivated legislation".  At
                                   that point, religion becomes intrusive and
                                   not very respectful of rights and differing
                                   belief systems.           -mice (!pp)
                                   \_ I have yet to see that drift, with the
                                      possible exception of ID. -emarkp
                                      \_ How about Reagan's Secretary of the
                                         Interior, whose policies were based
                                         around the idea that we didn't need
                                         to protect the environment because
                                         the rapture was coming.  Delusions
                                         endorsed by religion _are_ dangerous
                                         to political policy.
                                         \_ According to him, that's not true.
                                         \_ "'Voice of God' revealed to be
                                             Cheney on the oval office
                                      \_ You don't think a belief that invading
                                         Iraq is a realization of passages
                                         from Revelations played into the
                                         extreme right-wing agenda for the
                                         \_ Nope. -emarkp
                        \_ Christians to this day persecute and harass gays.
                           Until very recently, gays were imprisoned for
                           being gay. This is religious persecution.
                   \_ emarkp.  just a friendly reminder that Muslim only
                      turned radical when we created Israel.  Don't tell
                      me our unlaterial, unconditional support of Israel
                      has nothing to do with religion.  In this regard,
                      radical islamic movement is a result, not cause of
                      US/UK policies.
                      \_ whoa!  someone desperately needs a history of islam
                         book for christmas!
                      \_ I disagree with your assessment of history.  Radical
                         (kill all who disagree) Islam has existed for over
                         1000 years. -emarkp
                         \_ i.e. half as long as Radical (kill all who disagree)
                         \_ i.e. half as long as Radical (kill all who
                            disagree) Christianity.
                            \_ Most of Christianity has become civilized
                               in the last century or so.
                               \_ ^century^800 years
                                  \_ When did the 30 years war end?
                               \_ Germany was a Christian nation during WW2
                                  \_ So were America and UK. OTOH Hitler
                                     preferred Nordic tribal religions.
                      \_ Nah, they have been violent since the foundation
                         of Islam. They just didn't bother the US until
                         we started meddling in their business.
                         we started meddling in their business.  -jblack
2005/12/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iran, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:41014 Activity:low
12/14   Following up on an earlier thread... "Iran President: Holocaust is
        a 'Myth'"
        \_ in other news, aliens land in Terran
           \_ Soon they'll land in Protoss and Zerg
2005/12/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:41015 Activity:moderate
12/14   Hypothetical: You're an Iranian thug who just drove a few zillion
        fake ballots over the Iraqi border.  How are you going to get them
        into the vote count somewhere in sufficient quantities that it shifts
        the election but not so many that it causes enough suspicion to get
        your bogus votes thrown out?
        \_ Dump them in Chicago (an official Iraqi polling place in the US).
           All good democracies believe every vote from Chicago.
           \_ Nah, do it like this: First get a polical ally to build the
              electronic ballot boxes.  Eliminate any voting paper trail,
              and finally make it illegal to ask for a recount (like the
              GOP is doing in Ohio!)
              \_ why do republicans hate democracy?
                 \_ a fundamentalist Christian govt would get the word
                    of Jesus to everyone more efficiently
                    \_ I still have to wonder why an all-powerful god needs
                       help getting His message out.  Oh, yeah, because
                       it's a fucking bullshit fairytale.
                       \_ You seem to have some serious lack of clue about
                          religious/christian ideology.  There's this little
                          concept called 'free will'....  As an agnostic, I'm
                          hardly an apologist for any religious system, but
                          at least get some clue before spewing vitriol like
                          a recent high school grad.
                          \_ free will is incompatible with ominiscience.
        \_ Get Jimmy Carter to certify the vote?
        \_ Just burn a shi'ite vote for every fake sunni vote you toss in
        \_ That's okay.  We had no problem with 99% votes in the referendum
           a couple months ago in Iraq.
2005/12/14-15 [Uncategorized] UID:41016 Activity:nil
12/14   Free Mr. Tookie!
        \_ Am I the only person who has no idea what the fuck all this Tookie
           stuff is about?
           \_ No, you're unlikely to be the only person who lives under a rock.
        \_ This, Sir, is an ex-Tookie!
        \_ Shall we launch him from a canon?
                                      \_ Was this an intentional typo?
2005/12/14-16 [Recreation/Travel/LasVegas, Consumer/TV] UID:41017 Activity:moderate
12/14   What are your favorite shows on TV these days?
        \_ Mythbusters: ..
           \_ ditto
           \_ great show for the geek in all of us.
        \_ 24 on DVD .
        \_ 4400
        \_ SG-1: ..
           \_ SG Atlantis: ..
        \_ Battlestar Galactica (the new remake): .
        \_ West Wing: ...
        \_ Simpsons:  ...
        \_ Malcolm: .
        \_ LOST: .
        \_ Lost: ..
        \_ Family Guy (not as good as prior seasons, but still entertaining)
           \_ count me in.
        \_ Arrested Development: ...
        \_ House
        \_ Las Vegas
        \_ Nova: ..
        \_ Frontline: ..
        \_ Smallville: .
        \_ Prison Break!!
        \_ Every Day Italian (Giada is hot!)
           \_ I answered west wing, but I must give my support for her hotness.
              \_ You can vote for more than one b/c it says "shows"
           \_ She is hotter in her new show, Behind the Bash
        \_ The Daily Show: .
        \_ The Amazing Race: .
        \_ Grey's Anatomy: .
        \_ My Name is Earl: .
2005/12/14-16 [Finance/Investment] UID:41018 Activity:low
12/14   anyone have ameritrade? should i store my cash in the
        reserve fund (money market) while i am not trading?
        \_ I do.  I figure a percent or 2 of growth is better than nothing.
           I noticed on a couple occasions the money market *lost* small
           amounts of money but Ameritrade gave me a 'gift' to cover the loss.
          \_ can you buy stocks fast with it being in the money market acct?
             \_ Yes, it just makes you have negative cash until they transfer
                money out of reserve at the end of the day.
                \_ do they charge $35 if you take out cash before 90 days?
          \_ where do you specify whether to store cash in the
             reserve fund?  I can't find it anywhere on the account
            \_it's on your home page.. enroll in reserve... righthandside
              \_ I think it's only available for IRA accounts.  Are you
                 using an IRA account?
                \_ yeah.. it's only in my ira accts.
        \_ I've had ameritrade for several years (ever since they bought
           ndb). I normally keep my cash in the reserve fund b/c it gives
           a decent return.
2005/12/14-16 [Uncategorized] UID:41019 Activity:nil
12/14   anywhere there are cool christmas lights to drive by and see?
        \_ Yes.
2005/12/14-16 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:41020 Activity:kinda low
12/14   I just saw a link posted on and I thought I'd
        ask motd about it:  Mostly I was just wondering
        if people supported hate crimes legislation.  I'm very much a liberal,
        but there seems to be something silly about punishing people
        differently based upon what was in their head when they committed the
        crime.  Really, is one murder different than another?  Do we want to
        punish people for what they think?
        \_ I am an ultra liberal, but in this regard, I don't buy this
           'intent' logic.  Let say if a guy raped a woman.  His defense
           could be something like he was drunk at the time and thus get
           a less severe penalty.  WTF?  we are rewarding people who are not
           responsible for their actions?
           \_ Uh..  How exactly does your example relate to the discussion?
        \_ Well intent does matter in determining whether some acts are a crime
           or not, but I agree that it's pretty silly and basically amounts
           to extra crimininization because of the offender's politics.
           -another liberal
        \_ I think that using intent to punish people different for the same
           effect does make sense in most cases. A person who plans out a
           effect does make sense in many cases. A person who plans out a
           crime and executes it may pose a greater threat to society as a
           whole vs. the person who gets caught up in the heat of the moment
           and overreacts.
           Almost anyone can misjudge a situation and overreact, while few
           sit around and plan crimes. The fact someone overreacted once
           doesn't necessarily imply that they would do so again (though
           it is suggestive of this; hence the need for incarceration and
           post release monitoring).
           The effectiveness of incarceration as a means of correction on
           those who act w/o a plan may be greater b/c many of them feel
           regret over their actions and may take steps to prevent the recu-
           rrence of a similar action.
           rrence of a similar situation.
           In addition, the person who gets caught up in the heat of the mo-
           ment might have made a mistake re the need to defend themselves
           or others, so they could have a partial (or complete) excuse. This
           is generally not the case with those who execute a pre-existing
           [ In the context of hate crime legislation - I think that the
             existing law are sufficient to punish hate criminals, so I
             don't really see the need to pass these law.  I think that
             many of them will get passed b/c legislators don't want to
             look insensitive ]
             existing laws are sufficient to punish hate criminals, so I
             don't really see the need to pass new laws.  I think that
             many of them will get passed anyway b/c legislators don't
             want to look insensitive. ]
2005/12/14-16 [Finance/Investment] UID:41021 Activity:high
12/14   "ILF up 66%, BZF up 74%, EWY up 44%, CEE up 64%. But I only hold
        about 10% in each. You are holding too much risk with an
        undiversified portfolio like that for my taste."
        \_ That's impressive, nice returns betting on different regions.
           How do you plan on investing in 2006?
           \_ Thanks, I only posted the best ones though. There is an EWG up 9%,
              and a bad bet on CPN bonds (lost 50% so far) that bring the
              overall return down to about 30%. I am still working on my
              end of year adjustments, but I will certainly hold the above,
              to start with. I try not to sell winners, but in CEE's
              case it went up so much I had to sell half of it to avoid
              overbalancing my portfolio. I moved the proceeds into EEM.
              Recent purchases include TKF and PCU, a copper miner. I am
              probably going to reduce my overseas allocation from 70%
           \_ Thanks, I only posted the best ones though. There is an EWG
              up 9%, and a bad bet on CPN bonds (lost 50% so far) that
              bring the overall return down to about 30%. I am still work-
              ing on my end of year adjustments, but I will certainly hold
              the above, to start with. I try not to sell winners, but in
              CEE's case it went up so much I had to sell half of it to
              avoid overbalancing my portfolio. I moved the proceeds into
              EEM. Recent purchases include TKF and PCU, a copper miner.
              I am probably going to reduce my overseas allocation from 70%
              back down to 50%, but other than that, I haven't figured it
              out yet. Any suggestions?
              \_ Funny how the motd financial gurus only post their winners
                 and the biggest ones at that and everyone has large double
                 digit gains in everything.  It feels like 1998 all over
                 again everyday on the motd.
                 \_ 30% yearly gain is nothing to sneeze at.
                    \_ This is true.  My gain is 20%/year over the last 5-6
                       years but there were down times in there as well.  I'm
                       not picking on this person in particular, more the
                       general batch of "I'm a guru!  I got lucky on these
                       3 stocks!  Don't look at the losses under the rug..."
                       people posting here.
                       \_ 20% per year is impressive, especially given that
                          your 5-6 years included 2000 to late 2002.  I
                          have a 35% annual gain since late 2002, which
                          was when I got out of the post internet bubble
                          stock investment funk.  I definitely lost money
                          from 2000 till 2002.  Luckily I didn't have
                          too much money then.
                          your 5-6 years included 2000 to late 2002.
                          \_ Like I said, there were some down times.  I bought
                             in while the market was still dropping so I was at
                             a loss for a while but now I'm well above.  My
                             only regret was not trusting myself and getting
                             scared and not buying more at one key point where
                             I had my finger on the "buy" button but chickened
                             out.  That was the low point.  Oh well.  I did ok.
              \_ I missed Korea entirely.  What prompted you to pick Korea
                 (EWY)?  I have EUROX, but it was trounced by your CEE in
                 the past year, even though it had good long term
                 performance and has been slightly less volatile.
                 I know little about Turkey.  What's your reasons for
                 buying it?  When is it joining the EU?
                 \_ About three years ago, I decided that China was the
                    real growth engine of the world, but I don't want to
                    buy Red Chinese stocks for obvious reasons. So I decided
                    to buy stocks in the nations that I thought would benefit
                    from China's rise, including most of its neighbors: EWH,
                    EWS, EWY and TTF (later sold when the Thai economy went
                    into a recession). CEE is very heavy on Russian oil and
                    into a funk). CEE is very heavy on Russian oil and
                    gas producers, so be careful with it. I bought Turkey
                    mostly because The Economist keeps saying good things
                    about the Turkish economy and chances for EU admission.
                    They still have a bunch of hurdles to jump, but it looks
                    like 2012 or so for Turkey.
                    \_ I bought some EWJ (japan) and also had MJFOX
                    \_ I have bought some EWJ (japan) and also had MJFOX
                       (japan) since late 2003.  Everyone is saying buy
                       Japan.  What do you think?  The other thing I've
                       been looking at is blue chip US companies.  So
                       far, I've bought just GE though.  You don't like
                       India?  Totally missed the 20% semiconductor
                       run up recently.  Thanks for the Turkey tip.  I
                       will definitely look at that.
                       \_ I have a bit of Japan, will probably sell some
                          emerging market and move into it and SPX when
                          I rebalance. The US economy has all the same
                          problems it had three years ago, but at least
                          the valuations are looking more reasonable. I
                          guess I should buy some IFN, but I missed the
                          big runup and hate buying high. Any other
                          good ways to get into India?
2005/12/14-16 [Computer/SW] UID:41022 Activity:nil
12/14   I want to open up an investment account for my 1 year old niece
        and put money in it every year and run it with her as the
        owner. Any suggestions?
        \_ There is something called a UTMA (other states have similar) where
           it is an account in the name of a minor, but under the custodian-
           ship of an adult.  The kid may have to pay taxes on investment gains
           but I think it's basically what you're looking for.
2005/12/14-16 [Uncategorized] UID:41023 Activity:nil
12/14   Dvinsk Clan's "Le Parkour" (from a few days ago) in higher quality: ( - 41MB WMV)
2019/02/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:December:14 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>