Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:December:12 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2005/12/12-14 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:40965 Activity:low
12/11   Ok, I give: how do I use new soda for outgoing SMTP?  I'll start us off
        with a guess:
        http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu:465, with SSL turned on
        \_ This doesn't work. I've tried.
        \_ Please specify the RFC that would suggest to you that soda would
           talk SMTP on 465. Also, why are you using soda as outgoing SMTP
           server for anything that's NOT soda?
           \_ Are you stupid or just stupid?
              \_ Yeah, I'm stupid, I can't figure out why'd he expect SMTP
                 on the URD port. The fact that it improperly worked before
                 is not an excuse. Nor can I figure out why he'd _need_ to
                 relay through soda.
                 \_ how about port 587?
           \_ Is an alumnus posting this?
           \_ This better not be one of the new students
              \_ yes.
        \_ Any port in a storm!
2005/12/12-14 [Reference/BayArea] UID:40966 Activity:nil
12/12   12:12
        \_ It's now 1:01 1/1/11111 in the Antoxyphon calendar.
           \_ Your search - Antoxyphon - did not match any documents.
2005/12/12-14 [Science/Electric] UID:40967 Activity:nil
12/12   New AC Transit Line 800 Transbay All Nighter:
        http://www.actransit.org/riderinfo/schedules/800.html
2005/12/12-14 [Reference/Religion] UID:40968 Activity:high 80%like:41006
12/11   Ok, I got a kick out of this.  Potter and Aslan:
        http://www.shortpacked.com
        (for the logs: )
        http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/20051212sticks.png
        \_ heh, nice.  Thanks for posting.       -mice
        \_ You = dumb
           \_ I thought it was funny. -emarkp
           \_ http://www.robandelliot.cycomics.com/archive.php?id=180
        \_ the really jacked up part is that local Christian group
           here in Taiwan is boycotting Harry Potter for this reason,
           they are arguing that film like this (and Lord of the Ring)
           promote evil.
           \_ Hmm ... I haven't heard of any Christian organization
              opposing Lord of the Rings.  This is probably because
              Tolkien is a good friend of C.S. Lewis who wrote "Mere
              Christianity", the Narnia books, and many others.
              \_ Tolkien wasn't just a friend of Lewis, he was a very
                 devoted catholic himself.
                 devot catholic himself.
                 \- i may have put this on the motd before, but here it is
                    again. the first paragraph is pretty funny. --psb
                    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n22/turn03_.html
2005/12/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:40969 Activity:kinda low
12/11   Still no press about a reporter denied entry to Syria because he's a
        Jew.  http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47806
        \_ Frankly, I don't see why a Jew would want to enter Syria.  Is
           there some hot story in Syria worth your life?
        \_ Isn't WND part of the press?
           \_ Not according to much of the motd.
           \_ Don't you think El Al has different standards for non-Jews
              and deny them boarding now and then?  I am not saying this
              is a good thing but it reflects the state of the world we
              are in in and doesn't seem exactly shocking or comparable to
              the Daniel Pearl incident.
              \_ I find this comment bizarre.  I doubt El Al has different
                 standards for non-Jews.  If you can prove it, I'd like to see
                 it.
              \_ No idea what El Al's policies are, but El Al isn't a nation,
                 a reporter isn't a random passenger, and a plane isn't a
                 country.  Other than that, El Al and Syria might be roughly
                 comparable.
                 \- a significant part of el al is owned by the nation of
                    israel. and i imagine this was even at a higher level
                    in the past, and i assume they tightly work with the
                    israeli govt. --psb
                    \- from Yahoo finance: --psb
                         The company was originally government-controlled,
                         but it is now 40% owned by Knafaim-Arkia
                         Holdings, which has an option to buy an
                         additional 12% by 2007. The Israeli government
                         has retained ownership of about 30%.
                       According to the israel ministry of foreign affairs,
                       as of 2000 it was 100% govt owned ... not sure
                       when it changed. see: http://csua.org/u/e9r
                       \_ It seems that El Al was privatized at the end of
                          2004.  http://www.mof.gov.il/beinle/press164.pdf
              \_ This doesn't prove anything but here is an anecdote
                 which seems believable.
                 http://www.latinastyle.com/currentissue/v10-6/f-facing.html
                 and some more discussion here (look for El Al)
                 http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0201/20/le.00.html
                       \_ It seems that El Al was privatized at the end of
                          2004.  http://www.mof.gov.il/beinle/press164.pdf
                 \- G-UNIT denied entry to CANADA because he is a G-UNIT --psb
                    http://www.sohh.com/articles/article.php/7986
        \_ Dude, Isreal refuses Palestinians entry into Isreal from
           Gaza and West Bank all the time. I am sure they deny entry
           to Syrians, too, since the two nations are still officially
           at a state of war. How could this possibly be news?
           \_ Because the OP is one of the "Jews are the center of the
              universe" flavor of Jews.  Does anybody other than some
              Jewish people complain about the term "B.C." and insist on
              B.C.E. ?  In my experience Asians dont have a problem with B.C.
              I'm sure the OP will go nuts about my anti-semitism but let me
              say I am Jewish ... I am just talking about a certain flavor of
              Jewish person.
              \_ What? In my experience there are no Jews or non-Jews who have
                 a problem with "BC".  And what does this have to do with Gaza
                 or the price of tea in China or what the moon is made of
                 anyway?  Excuse me while I go look up non-sequiter.  I hope
                 I spelled that right.  And oh, btw, the humidity was hovering
                 about 28% today which is 2.4% below historic norms for this
                 area.
2005/12/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:40970 Activity:nil
12/12   Arnold doesn't grant Tookie clemency.
        Sayonara shotgun stan!
        \_ they shouldn't kill him.  just give him 40 strokes of good ol'
           fashioned singapore style caning, lovingly and tenderly
           administered over 5 years at 8 strokes per year.  That will do
           the man lots of good, and ensure that he will become a brand
           new reformed contributing member of society once more.
           \_ 40 strokes over 5 years for multiple brutal killing?  I might
              settle with 40 strokes per day for the rest of his natural life.
              \_ no no no.  that will kill him the very first day, and let
                 him off too easily.  I sentence you to watch Passion of the
                 Christ five times straight.
                 \_ We should let the pro death penalty people get together
                    and beat him to death with lead pipes!
                    \_ How about a sawed-off shotgun?
        \_ "Any last words Mr. Williams?"
           "Ok, ok, I did it! Sheesh!"
           \_ Actually he already admitted in court that he did it.
              \_ Link?  Or are you refering to the "brain damaged" defense?
        \_ No Tookie!  That's a bad Mr. Tookie!
        \_ FREE TOOKIE!  LET MY CAT GO FREE!
        \_ Governor dumpy.  Want tookie.
2005/12/12-14 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:40971 Activity:nil
12/12   Hybrid Camry pictures:
        http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/12/more_photos_of.php
2005/12/12-14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:40972 Activity:nil
12/12   Kirk McKusick is organizing a FreeBSD code reading class in Berkeley
        this spring:
        http://www.bsdforums.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37379
        \_ Is this anything like a poetry or bible reading?
           \_ Pretty much.
2005/12/12-14 [Science] UID:40973 Activity:nil
12/12   Anyone reccomend a good site for excel table templates for displaying
        scientific data?
        \_ Not all scientific data is the same.
        \_ If you don't have to use excel I'd recommend R for scientific
           computing work: http://www.r-project.org --darin
        \_ umm, huh?  What are you doing exactly? That would help with a
           recommendation.
2005/12/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:40974 Activity:nil
12/12   http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1920074,00.html
        "Israel's armed forces have been ordered by Ariel Sharon ... to be
        ready by the end of March for possible strikes on secret uranium
        enrichment sites in Iran, military sources have revealed. ...
        Since Israel destroyed the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981,
        'it has been understood that the lesson is, don't have one site, have
        50 sites', a White House source said. ...
        'If we opt for the military strike,' said a source, 'it must be not
        less than 100% successful. It will resemble the destruction of the
        Egyptian air force in three hours in June 1967.'"
        \_ An Israeli air force attack is the one thing that won't happen.
        \_ "We'll nuke you if we have to!"
        \_ They should annex some land while they're at it. That worked out
           real well for them last time.
           \_ You do realize why they did that and why it has, in fact,
              worked out well? Oh wait. This is motd. Nevermind.
              \_ Gaza worked out well???
                 \_ Do you realize *why* Israel annexed Gaza?
2005/12/12-14 [Reference/Religion] UID:40975 Activity:nil
12/12   Members of the Religion of Peace helping to keep the peace.  Kudos from
        a Christian: http://csua.org/u/e9s
2005/12/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Law/Court] UID:40976 Activity:low
12/12   http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/12/07/WILLIAMS.TMP
        "The prosecution's case was based on circumstantial evidence and the
        testimony of witnesses 'whose credibility was highly suspect,' U.S.
        District Judge Stephen Wilson wrote in 1998."
        ... while upholding the jury's verdict, because the jury >> appeals
        judges, unless you find a technical problem in the trial, new evidence,
        or persuasive evidence the jury was on crack, etc.
        \_ And?
           \_ "Four years later, the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals voiced
              similar qualms, saying the prosecution had relied on witnesses
              with 'less-than-clean backgrounds and incentives to lie' to win
              lenient treatment for their own crimes." (also upholding the
              conviction)
              \_ And he loves animals and writes children's books, found
                 Jesus on death row and is a 5 time Nobel Peace Prize
                 Nominee!  Free Tookie!
                 \_ And at 12:01 he'll meet Jesus.
                 \_ strawman
                    \_ it isn't a strawman.  it is mockery.  and i fart in
                       your general direction as well!
                       \_ strawman + mockery
                          \_ a strawman is a lame debate method.  i'm not
                             debating or attempting to score points by
                             saying you said those things and then knocking
                             them down.  i am mocking you.  mock, mock, mock!
                             we are the knights who say mock!   mock!  what a
                             great word!  mock!  say mock! 10 times, fast.
                             \_ whatever you say ...
                                \_ here's an example of a different yet
                                   equally lame debate method.
                                   \_ no, it is not a debate method.
                                      i am mocking your attempt at mockery.
                                      \_ you're attempting but failing.  go
                                         look up "mock".  perhaps if you knew
                                         what mockery is you'd be able to do
                                         it.  thanks for joining us today.
                                         \_ It must be strange to take so much
                                            joy in the death of another human
                                            being. One that did not even do
                                            anything to you personally.
                                            \_ No it mustn't. Justice is good.
                                               \_ Last I checked, eye for an
                                                  eye is a crappy basis for
                                                  justice.
                                               \_ I can understand a sort of
                                                  grim satisfaction, but so
                                                  much overwhelming joy.
                                                  \_ Well I'm a different
                                                     poster and I wouldn't
                                                     call it joy. I think the
                                                     pp's mocking doesn't
                                                     necessarily == joy either,
                                                     he just doesn't care about
                                                     it enough to not joke.
                                                     Personally I know very
                                                     little about this guy but
                                                     he doesn't seem worth
                                                     caring about. Their
                                                     strategy was to turn his
                                                     case into a political
                                                     hurdle for the Gov.
                 \_ In fact he loves animals so much that he called the three
                    victims he killed "three oriental pigs".
        \_ You know, in an abstract way I am opposed to executions, but I don't
           think there's any reason to get especially incensed about this
           execution.  Becoming a cause celebre should not get you special
           treatment under the law.
           \_ I agree.  I am not especially incensed, but I am generally pissed
              off whenever someone is executed and there is some doubt that
              the guy did it or not.
              \_ What doubt was that in this case?  Have you read anything
                 that doesn't have an agenda?  The SF Comical is definitely
                 agenda territory.
                 \_ The idea that the SF Chronicle is a left-wing paper
                    is so completely out of touch with reality and history
                    that there's really no way to respond to it.  -tom
                 \_ SF Comical on Tookie:
                    http://csua.org/u/ea4
                    Not everything in the world fits into your little boxes.
                 \_ I read the DA's summary of events, and I read Ah-nold's
                    3-5 page statement.
                    3-5 page statement.  I'll give 12 jurors thought it
                    enough to be "beyond a reasonable doubt", but to me there
                    remains doubts.
2005/12/12-14 [Reference/Celebration] UID:40977 Activity:nil
12/12   Anyone know other christmas songs along the line of ELP
        "I believe in Father Christmas ?"
        \_ My favorite carol is still "I heard the bells on Christmas day",
           words by Longfellow.
        \_ it's not like ELP at all but you have to check out "Christmastime
           in the LBC" by Snoop Dogg.
2005/12/12-14 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:40978 Activity:nil
12/12   On the hardware page the SSH rsa and dsa keys are listed as:
          RSA - 96:0d:44:65:af:9b:c2:9a:b3:19:6f:28:bc:07:85:e4
          DSA - 91:cc:22:95:03:1d:92:3f:a3:4b:1d:5c:0c:44:d6:69
        I think these are the keys for coke. Anyway, when I run
        ssh-keygen -l on soda (or when I get the keys via keyscan)
        I get the following values:
          RSA - e1:9c:e5:c7:f9:9f:f3:af:04:ef:df:2d:63:b0:84:4a
          DSA - 2a:5f:0c:23:c2:80:dc:ef:d4:ee:bb:4e:a5:80:25:d5
        Can someone fix the webpage?
          http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/computing/hardware
        tia.
        \_ Finally did it. - jvarga
           \_ Thanks. You rock.
2005/12/12-14 [Health/Disease/General] UID:40979 Activity:nil
12/12   "Mice Created With Human Brain Cells"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051212/ap_on_sc/mice_human_brains
        I've been pro-stem-cell-research, but this I think is going too far.
        \_ Um, why?  Is it the yuck factor?
           |_ Gee, Brain, what are we going to do tonight?
           \_ for me it is about taking too many steps towards creating
              chimera people.  just because we can do something doesn't mean
              we should.  im very pro-research but there is something about
              this beyond the simple yuck factor.
              \_ So would you rather we use human subjects for such tests?
        \_ Didn't you ever see the Secret of Nimh?  Mice are cute!
                                                    \_ Err, thank you.  -mice
2005/12/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40980 Activity:nil
12/12   U.S. Soldiers bring wheels to Iraqi man without legs
        http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/print.php?story_id_key=8328
        \_ Yes jblack, the US Army is great, GWB is great, and whining
           liberals should shut their mouths. I gotcha.
        \_ "We killed 30,000 Iraqis but by giving wheels to one Iraqi man
            without legs, we sure feel heck a lot better!"    !gwb
        \_ Hmmm... I wonder about how practical that is.  Is it better for
           him than a wheelchair?
           \_ Obviously no, but a real customized American wheelchair costs
              well over $5000, and the US government can't afford to pay
              such an exorbitant price especially when it needs to
              finance the War on Terror.
                \_ ^War on Terror^tax cuts
                   \_ I'm glad you think we're paying for the tax cuts
                      for the rich. I bet you even thought Clinton was
                      right to intervene in Serbia.
              \_ So, don't get a "real customized American wheelchair."
                 There are much cheaper/easier designs.  Since the army
                 guy build it from scratch, he may have investigated other
                 designs.
                 \_ And now this guy has no incentive to better his life!
                    -libertarian
2005/12/12-14 [Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:40981 Activity:high
12/12   dim, do you advocate living a lot farther to buy a single family
        home instead of a condo that is a lot closer?
        \_ Tough question. In general, I like the lifestyle a SFR affords.
           However, I'd rather have a condo in SF than commute in from
           Sacramento every day. There are advantages to both. All else
           equal, you are better off with a SFR in most cases. For
           investment purposes, small buildings and duplex/triplex
           situations are better than either. --dim
        \_ Condos are better when you're young and you don't have time to
           mow the lawn, adjust the sprinkler, rake leafs, clean up the
           garage (which your wife thinks is an unlimited storage space),
           plant new flower beds, add manure [or chemical fertilizer],
           take out weeds, kill gophers, spray pesticides, etc.
           In addition, when you're older and move up to a SFR that real
           men live in, you can rent out your condo without worrying
           about the condition of the condo as your home owner's association
           should take care of things for you. Lastly, home owner's
           association dues (HOA) is completely tax deductable as expense
           so it's all good.
           \_ Jesus, what is wrong with you people?  You do realize that you
              can hire a gardener to do most/all of that crap, yes?  It's
              really actually rather common and can work really well at a
              fairly modest price.  You can find these 'gardeners' in the
              yellow pages.
           \_ If I ever want to do any of that shit on your list other than
              killing gophers, I hope someone has the mercy to kill me.
              \- spoken like a young rebellious liberal. One day, you will grow
                 up and assimilate, and you'll love to do all of the above.
                 Grow up, get a job, buy a suburbian house, buy a minivan
                 or SUV, and have kids. Family values, that's the American
                 way.  Like I said, you'll have to do all of the above sooner
                 or later. Can I kill you now? God Bless.
                                               \_ God Bless? God Bless what?
                                                  What exactly is it that god
                                                  is supposed to be blessing
                                                  here?  Do you really believe
                                                  in god, or are you just being
                                                  'clever'?
                 \_ Yes, but at least he galloped.  When did you?
           \_ blah! both options suck. why buy when you can rent worry
              free. i'm happy renting my place, i feel perfectly fine
              playing PS2, Xbox and having cool LAN parties. what is it
              with you old farts. grow down man -young troll, will try harder
           \_ SFR have greater demands and lower supply. Old SFR and
              orchids and warehouses are constantly being torn down for
              \_ That's gotta be the smallest condo ever!
              more condo developments. SFR are disappearing while condos
              are being built all the time. So, it's not hard to see why
              one is better than the other. If you spend just a little
              bit of time in traffic, your overall gain in the long run
              is much higher. SFR rules.
           \_ I'd actually argue that condos are better for older people.
              Young people have a lot more energy for all of the above.
           \_ Are HOA dues really tax deductible? googling says otherwise,
              can anyone say definitively?
              \_ If you are renting the place out, you can deduct the HOA
                 dues from the amount you collect in rent.  You cannot
                 deduct the HOA dues on your primary residence.
                 \_ Good to know -potential future landlord
           \_ Live simply, and spend your extra time doing charity work,
              instead of mowing the lawn.
              \_ helping thyself is the best charity work.  -libertarian
                 \- how do you, mr libertarian, define charity? do you
                    define it as "helping yourself" or that just falls
                    under your defn? --psb
                     \_ I think you have been had.  Libertarians LOVE
                     \_ I think you have been had.  Libertarians like
                        charity. Charity makes one feel good about oneself
                        and helps another who may well be gratefull. It is
                        and helps another who may well be grateful. It is
                        Govmnt handouts, which are coerced from one person
                        (how many here feel good when paying their taxes?)
                        and given to another as entitelments, (which are
                        less likely to make one feel gratefuly)
                        less likely to make one feel grateful)
                        Please note, that I am *not* arguing personally
                        against social welfare.  I am simply stating the
                        libertarian POV to illustrate that it is more likely
                        that the above is (mis)characterizing a "libertarian"
                        not actually speaking as one.  -crebbs
                        \- i dont think i've been had. i think you are being
                           defensive. saying "chess is my favorite sport"
                           may make sense if sport to you is at essence about
                           competition but may not make sense if must involve
                           something physical. is non-competititive mountain
                           climbing a sport? similarly, i am trying to figure
                           out what this fellow considers the "essence" of
                           charity. shopping on amazon makes me feel good
                           and helps amazon stockholders. that isnt charity.
                           i do know a bit about libertarianism and
                           contractarian philosophy. i am asking a narrow
                           question to the PP. not making a statement about
                           social welfare in the large.  --psb
                           \- on i see ... from below it looks like
                              the "-libertarian" fellow is just mocking
                              libertarianism. it's hard to tell the mocking
                              from those who are in earnest ... privatize
                              from those who are in earnest ... privatatize
                              fire depts! --psb
                              \_ right, my point was just that he is mocking
                                 As for the "Fire Depts" comment. All groups
                                 have their irrational fringe elements.  It
                                 happens that 3rd party groups, being ipso
                                 facto out of the mainstream, tend to be more
                                 defined by their extremists. That being said
                                 there is a huge difference between someone
                                 Characterizing Libs as radicals, and some
                                 idiot(s) who (regularly) MIS-Characterize
                                 them as mean/cruel/hateful/dimwitted/selfish
                                 hedonistic bastards (not to say that there are
                                 none who are) -crebbs
                                 \- my criticisms of libertarians is not a
                                    philosophical criticism of libertarianism.
                                    i think most libertarians actually dont
                                    care about the philosophy they just like
                                    what it says. this isnt a perfect analogy
                                    but it's like the difference between a
                                    raiders supporter because they are co-
                                    located in oakland and somebody to endorses
                                    the raider image/lifestyle/values and would
                                    stick with them even if moved to Dallas.
                                    i do have separate criticisms of the lib.
                                    philosophy but i also think the it is a
                                    compelling framework that can force
                                    opposing views to answer some tough
                                    questions (as i have said before some
                                    liberals become defensive when confronted
                                    with "dont you feel people know what is
                                    best for themselves" ... when it is phrased
                                    as "do you think poor people are stupid"
                                    and feel obligated to backpedal rather
                                    than say "yes, there are a bunch of cases
                                    where people dont make good decisions"
                                    either for structural reasons [info costs]
                                    or "weak will"). the Randroids are pretty
                                    much the Stalinists of the Libertarians.
                                    are you related to the Krebs cycle people?
                                 them as evil/hateful/dimwitted/selfish
                                 bastards (not to say that there are none
                                 who are) -crebbs
                                    are you invovled with the crebbs cycle?
2005/12/12-14 [Finance/Banking, Recreation/Dating] UID:40982 Activity:kinda low
12/12   Do you have friends you don't like lending books, DVDs etc to?
        Typically because they don't return them in a reasonable amount of
        time or if you hint you would like something back they don't pick it
        up?  I personally feel if I borrow a book from somebody and they want
        it back I should at soonest reasonable opportunity deliver it to them
        rather than say "oh you can come and get it."  How do you handle
        turning down future requests?
        \_ Just go pick it up that one time, and never lend to them again.
           Simply tell them they don't return your stuff on time.
        \_ I am having the hardest time get my friend return my books...
        \_ I've had to discipline myself to not borrow things from people;
           excactly for the reason that sometimes I forget, or it can get
           damaged.  But yeah, one should return things fast.  -John
        \_ My problem is that I lend things to people and then forget and never
           get them back ever.
        \_ My dad used to tell me an old (Arabic?) saying:
           If you lend a book to someone, they should chop off an arm.
           If you return a lent book, they should chop off both arms.
           I guess the point is that people are generally irresponsible
           and if you want them to read a book, just buy it for them...
           or don't expect it back.
           \_ I own a lot of books so people are often interested in borrow
           \_ I own a lot of books so people are often interested in borrowing
              books from me and it is an asymmetric thing.  Normally it would
              be a pretty efficient area for inter-friend loans ... books
              dont really get worn out, cheap to move, the loan terms are
              usually longer than from library, books are often things you
              want to use rather than own, you usually can spare the book
              for a couple of months.  So it kind sad I am thinking about
              cracking down on this.  It says something about how flakey
              most people are ... people who arent willing to promptly
              return stuff when you issue a recall, people who forget
              the have your books and your are forced to do the recall etc.
              (There have been a couple of cases where I have borrowed a book
              and the other person moved away and I felt really bad.  I think
              the other person has forgotten i had the book.)
              they have your books and wont ever return them unless you
              remember and initiate a recall. (There have been a couple of
              cases where I have borrowed a book and the other person moved
              away and I felt really bad.  I think the other person has
              forgotten i had the book.)  These days if a flakey friend asks
              to borrow something, I just pretend not to hear.  On the other
              hand I have good friends I have loaned very expensive electronic
              and such to.
              \_ I have had similar problems, and I'd add that there is another
                 problem with books and flaky people, which is getting them to
                 read the damn book.  I often loan someone a book that they say
                 they want to read, and six months later they still haven't
                 finished it.  Well, I actually would like to see them read the
                 book, but then it turns into another six months...people need
                 to read more.
                 book, but then it turns into another six months...the bottom
                 line is that most people are lazy, flaky, and watch about
                 24 hours of tv for every hour they spend reading.  And that's
                 just the intelligensia.
2005/12/12-14 [Recreation/Humor] UID:40983 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
12/12   The picard song:
        http://hjem.wanadoo.dk/~wan13237/darkmateria_the_picard_song.mp3
        \_ Holy fucking shit that's awesome.
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:December:12 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>