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| 2005/12/7-9 [Uncategorized] UID:40891 Activity:nil |
12/7 Attention. The new soda machine has a new hidden feature. The OS
keeps track of /etc/motd.public edits. Welcome to the new soda.
\_ details?
\_ trolled :P
\_ not really; that was more akin to "proof?" -pp |
| 2005/12/7 [Uncategorized] UID:40892 Activity:nil 70%like:40885 |
12/6 Click on "Watch The TV Ad" on the bottom left corner:
http://www.honda.co.uk/impossibledream/window.html
- direct: http://84.40.3.165
\_ Is that guy anyone I should recognize?
Also a different commercial on diesels, click on "See the Film":
http://www.honda.co.uk/change
- direct: http://www.btaa.co.uk/winners2005/movs/HondaDiesel_Grr.mov
\_ the honda.co.uk website is cool. lots of bells and whistles. |
| 2005/12/7 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military] UID:40893 Activity:nil |
12/7 Rat brain cells learn to fly a F-22:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Rats-Make-Good-F-22-Pilots-14299.shtml |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Recreation/Humor] UID:40894 Activity:low Cat_by:auto |
12/7 Definitive Guide to Gansta Combat:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=414704&page=1
\_ So, umm, the joke is that they are black? Gee that's funny.
\_ Um no. The joke is that they have no idea how to properly
handle a gun. Just like most "urban youth."
\_ You're a retard.
\_ Very funny. -John |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Recreation/Humor] UID:40895 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto |
12/7 Big brains means small balls (at least in bats):
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17490140-13762,00.html
\_ Is this why all male porn stars are so well-hung? |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:40896 Activity:kinda low |
12/7 Thanks for all the replies on what gifts to bring back to
Taiwan. I now hasve a better idea of what to bring for my aunts
and uncles. But what about cousins in their 20s. Are there any
electronic gadgets, apparel, etc. that would be good gift ideas?
Do people in Taiwan use iPods? Are they more expensive in Taiwan?
\_ Bring back nice traditional wife from rural China since most
Taiwanese women have Westernized and modernized, meaning they
don't cook, they don't clean, and they bitch all day.
\_ You mean Taiwanese women are more like Hong Kong women now?
\_ No, more like, both HK and Taiwanese women are mostly
Westernized so they're as bitchy as modern American
women. Whatever happened to the good 'ol traditional
women we saw from TV shows in the 60s like Bewitched and
I Dream of Jennie? Are they extinct? -fuck modernization
\_ That's "Jeannie", you cretin.
\_ Yes, but all sex must be scheduled in advance and only the
missionary position is allowed until the second child, then
you will be refused sex until someone dies.
\_ is this in reference to the 60s women, modern
Western women, or Westernized Asian women?
\_ Is it just Taipei or is that true for the whole isle?
\_ Young people in Hong Kong love Timberland boots, because they are
very expensive over there. Don't know about Taiwan.
\_ haaa? that was N years ago i think.
\_ Oh, my sister told me this 7yrs ago. I'm so outdated.
\_ clothes from Polo/nautica/Gap. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Uncategorized] UID:40897 Activity:nil |
12/7 http://www.livejournal.com/users/greentroll - zartan \_ Neat pictures. Any way to find out what fuck he's written for the \_ Neat pictures. Any way to find out what he's written for the few of us who can't read Russian? \_ All I know is he's Russian and lives in Korea. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40898 Activity:low |
12/7 After I start a background job from tcsh in an xterm, I try to exit
the shell. But it stays around until the background job exits. Is
there a way to tell the shell not to wait for the background job to
finish? Thx.
\_ Yes.
\_ How?
\_ nohup?
\_ you might need to redirect to /dev/null also.
\_ It still doesn't work. What I do is:
1. ssh into a Linux host. My shell is tcsh.
2. Type "nohup sleep 10 >& /dev/null &"
3. Type "logout"
The session doesn't close until "sleep" terminates. I also tried
/usr/bin/nohup and /bin/sleep, but got the same result.
/usr/bin/nohup and /bin/sleep, but got the same result. --- OP
\_ maybe your tcsh has some customization that makes it wait.
check the startup files. the default tcsh behavior is to
disown jobs started with & upon exit. either that, or your
tcsh is broken.
\_ More info: I just found that this problem only happens if
I ssh into the host. It doesn't if I rsh/rlogin/telnet
into the host. --- OP |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40899 Activity:nil |
12/7 So what are the correct SMTP settings for soda now? I've been
using port 465 + SSL + password authentication and it's stopped
working since the reboot.
\_ I just mailed myself using port 25 + SSL + password.
\_ % telnet http://csua.berkeley.edu 25
Trying 128.32.112.233...
telnet: connect to address 128.32.112.233: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
\_ I just did that too and got a connection.
\_ many isp's block port 25.
\_ if you figure this out, please let me know, because I can't do
it neither. I can only email to myself. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/HateGroups] UID:40900 Activity:nil |
12/7 Feel good link of the day
http://www.newsobserver.com/710/story/362297.html - danh
\_ further proof that poverty, not race, is the root of many problems.
\_ Saying "race is not a problem" is a bit simplistic. Only wackos
claim there are genetic reasons for things tied to race these
days, but there is social dysfunction present pervasively in
some racial segments that could lead one to accurately state
that some problems are, indeed, due to "race"
\_ Which would be, in turn, itself simplistic. Any serious
analysis of "race" specific issues needs to focus on
history, geography, and economics.
\_ Are you saying there's no such thing as bad cultures?
\_ Bad culture? Sure. Bad "race"? Fuhgeddaboutit.
\_ That's because only wackos dare to make such politically
incorrect claims as genetic reasons these days.
\_ all of my feel good links are NSFW
\_ alt.sex.stories* is text-based. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/Networking] UID:40901 Activity:low |
12/7 802.11 (security) question. How do I instruct my laptop to
connect to an AP with specific mac address? (they all have
same SSID) I have the netgear PCMCIA wireless access card. My
netgear utility shows all the access points, but because they
all have the same SSID, I don't have control over which one it
actually connect to. It always seem to connect to the trouble
some AP, and I get connection problems. Occasionally I'll be
connected to the good AP, and my connections are fine (but
sometimes in the middle of doing some stuff It'll reconnect
back to the bad AP). I did not find a way to set my wireless
to connect to specific mac address. This seems like a security
problem. Someone can just setup a bogus AP with the same name
and I have no way of telling my card not to connect to it.
Thanks.
\_ Short answer: "yes, it's a problem." The fact that 802.11b
has, very simplistically explained, 2 "channels", one for overhead
type stuff like joins/parts and the other for actual data (it
sort of has to, otherwise you couldn't negotiate connections with
new hosts easily) is at the root of the possibility of sniffing
wifi auth traffic for key cracking purposes. If there's a way
to let you select an AP by MAC, I'd love to know it. This is why
you should treat _any_ wireless connection as open. -JOhn
you should treat _any_ wireless connection as open. -John
\- to OP: this is the tip of the iceberg. you might look at
Wm Arbaugh's book or some of his WEEB pages, e.g.
http://www.cs.umd.edu/~waa/wireless.html
\_ You can do LEAP or EAP-TLS (if you want actual security)
authentication to ensure you are connected to the correct AP. -aus |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40902 Activity:high |
12/7 http://CNN.com: "Air marshal kills man who made bomb threat" Oh oh, you know the guy probably wasn't a genuine terrorist if they lead with a line like that. Just compare the lead to the other major web sites' (foxnews.com too) if you don't know what I'm talking about. -jctwu \_ You're kidding me, right? \_ You're kidding me, right? --scotsman \_ Did you check the other web sites yet? \_ Did you check the other web sites yet? -jctwu \_ Uh, yes. Plus a news.google check. If anything, fox's is less descriptive of the actual circumstance than all the rest. I think, perhaps, I don't know what exactly you're complaining about. about. --scotsman \_ Re-read the original post. \_ Re-read the original post. -jctwu \_ Comparing CNN's leed to http://news.google.com/?ncl=http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1517646/20051207/index.jhtml%3Fheadlines%3Dtrue&hl=en http://tinyurl.com/79ebc (news.google) makes them look in pretty good company. There seem to me to be three classes of headlines here: "Man made bomb threat, shot dead by air marshalls" "Shots fired on Miami Plane" "Air Marshalls kill crazy person" CNN and many others are in the first group, International feeds are in the second, and Fox and a number of other papers are in the third. papers are in the third. --scotsman \_ Okay, here it is, for the largest web sites: Man Shot Dead at Miami Airport (WP) Air Marshal Shoots Passenger (NYT) Marshal Shoots Suspect After Jet Lands in Miami (LAT) Deadly Confrontation (MSNBC) Air Marshals Kill Erratic Passenger (Fox) Air marshal kills man who made bomb threat (CNN) 4 of 6 make factual statements 2 of 6 also make claims which assign responsibility in addition to factual statements \_ Uh. You're insane. in addition to factual statements -jctwu \_ Uh. You're insane. --scotsman \_ Uh. I don't think so. \_ Uh. I don't think so. -jctwu \_ Okay, who do you think is being "assigned responsibility"? responsibility"? --scotsman \_ "It's the crazy dude's fault he got himself killed." himself killed. -jctwu \_ "Erratic" is accurate and does not imply blame. \_ Okay, that one I had trouble with. I'll revise that from 4 of 6 and 2 of 6 to 4.5 of 6 and 1.5 of 6 -jctwu \_ "Air Marshals Kill Erratic Passenger" assigns blaim to the air marshal, while assigns blame to the air marshal, while "Air marshal kills man who made bomb threat" assigns blaim to the passenger. \_ Uh.. No. No it doesn't. threat" assigns blame to the passenger. \_ Uh.. No. No it doesn't. --scotsman \_ As pp wrote, I had trouble with "erratic" since it can be interpreted as factual, so I'll give it a half point. point. -jctwu \_ I interpret them the completely opposite way. (And it's spelled "blame".) \_ You missed this one: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10367598 "Air marshal guns down man at Miami airport" \_ That's "Deadly Confrontation". If you went to all the sites earlier (now some of the stories have moved/etc.), you would have seen they're all the lead titles on the front-page of those web sites. of those web sites. -jctwu \_ Lessons learned: always do what armed law inforcement tells you to do. \_ ^law enforcement^* (box cutters don't count as "armed") \_ The air marshals are law enforcement, and are armed. \_ Someone doesn't know csh syntax. -pp \_ it didn't really help that Brazilian dude on the London subway -jctwu \_ It's not law enforcement's fault that the Brazillian dude didn't look white. - magneto \_ "his wife tried to explain that he was mentally ill and had not taken his medication." \_ A female accomplice of a suicidal bomber can very well say the same thing in that situation. \_ I agree. It's a tragedy if everything unfolded as Homeland Security is claiming. It's fucked up if HS or one of the air marshals isn't telling it quite like it is. air marshals isn't telling it quite like it is. -jctwu \_ Okay, http://CNN.com is now /not/ reporting that crazy dude reached into his bag, but that he approached the air marshals aggressively after refusing to put his bag down. Yippee, 0-day newz p0wnz m3. harhar, since then, the http://CNN.com story has changed from the original, to no bomb found, to now his luggage was exploded (implying there may have been a bomb but we'll never know), and back to the original story that he reached into his bag. he reached into his bag. -jctwu \_ Uh, dude. Exploding the luggage in question is standard procedure for suspected explosives. Whether there were or weren't explosive present isn't in doubt afterward. They know what they explode it with and can tell whether other/more explosive material was present. Take a nap. present. Take a nap. --scotsman \_ I know all that, "Take a nap"-dude. In terms of spin, "No bomb found" has a much different connotation than "luggage exploded" with a cool picture of a bag exploding. The former is also much more relevant. The former is also much more relevant. -jctwu \_ You're throwing a lot of epithets at CNN et al over things that are endemic to the 24 hour news cycle. If you're just discovering this, then more power to you, but seriously it's not a big deal. If you take issue with it, take note that <random event> happened and read about it the next morning. --scotsman \_ Do you know what an epithet is? -jctwu \_ You're calling them out on their journalistic cred, and sounding like an idiot in doing so. You've called them spinners and compared them unfavorably to Fox. What would you like me to use instead of "epithet"? --scotsman \_ Just say I called them out on their journalistic cred, not "throwing a lot of epithets". Congratulations you found the words. -jctwu \_ Because you're such the journalism critic... I called them epithets because they don't rise to the level of "criticism" or "allegations" --scotsman \_ So, did you bother to look up the word yet? -jctwu \_ Jeff, I know what "epithet" means. This ceased being amusing long ago. Goodbye. --scotsman \_ Ben, why did you name me? There's a reason why I didn't sign. This became an issue for me the moment you said "Take a nap", and then continued with "throwing a lot of epithets" and then "sounding like an idiot". I'm not the one who started with the personal attacks, and I'm not the one who broke the anonymity. For those following this thread, please note that scotsman and I did not sign our names until after after the "Jeff, ..." post. the "Ben, ..." post. -jctwu \- i personally also think that is a peculiar use of "epithet". --psb, pater andron te theon te \_ shrug, I'm sure scotsman is a good guy but we may have both gotten a little carried away, and probably just wasted our time more than anything -jctwu \- so no DUEL? |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/Domains] UID:40903 Activity:nil |
12/7 Hi, I sold a domain name over a year ago. I asked the buyer to
initiate the transfer process, TWICE. He said ok, he'll get on
it. He hasn't done it yet, and I still own the domain name.
The domain name is up for renewal. Can I take the domain name
back since he never claimed it? Or should I just let it
expire, in which case I'm sure that both I and the buyer will
lose it? Thanks.
\_ Mail him. "It's expiring on this date. If you haven't taken
ownership of it by then it will revert. I am not responsible for
maintenance costs on your domain. If you wish, I will renew, but
you will own me renewal costs before I will hand it over."
\_ Via notarized letter if you care enough. -John |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40904 Activity:low |
12/7 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051207/od_nm/germany_toothpaste_dc German shoplifter had a brush with the law. \_ Just goes to show you never can tell where your toothpaste has been. \_ He mistook those toothpaste for KY Jelly tubes. \_ "store detectives ...... forced him to hand over his booty." :-) \_ He nearly escaped by the skin of his teeth. \_ It says he's an Uzbek. Damn immigrants. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40905 Activity:nil |
12/7 Need a job? Are you tech saavy and have a passion for politics?
The WHIG is hiring people to market ideas that retroactively
justify the Iraq War, and ultimately sell the Iraq War to the
public.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051207/od_nm/bush_spin_dc
\_ The war doesn't need retroactive justification, and can be
fully vetted today.
\_ Someone needs to reread their Orwell.
\_ Are you kidding? He's hired! |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/SW/Security, Industry/Jobs] UID:40906 Activity:nil |
12/7 We're looking for interns for a 3-5 month project helping us
populate our security policy database for various windows applications.
The work involves installing the application, using it for a while,
determining the appropriate security policy, and entering it
in to a database. Work is 15+ hours a week (however much you want
to work above min. 15 is fine), pays $12-$15 an hour, and can be
done offsite from the comfort of your own home.
email sking@zonelabs.com if you are interested.
--sky
\_ Don't you know students don't read motd?
\_ Good point. i should email jobs@csua |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/Rants] UID:40907 Activity:nil |
12/7 We are so fucked
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051207/ap_on_hi_te/india_microsoft_20
\_ Uhm, huh? Why? I think you're being a tad "chicken little"-ish.
\_ get out while you can, kid
\_ British Raj is being replaced by the American Raj. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:40908 Activity:high |
12/7 Where in the constitution and/or law says that you can't have a
gun duel? How about a fist duel between two people (like boxing),
is that still legal? If boxing is legal, how about non-lethal
kendo stick duels, or even katana duels?
\_ Faimiliar with Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton?
\_ I'm betting where you will get in trouble with gun dueling is not
going to be federal law but state/city law. Specifically assault
with a deadly weapon, manslaughter or murder, none of which are
federal crimes (at least under normal circumstances). You are
allowed to box, because thats a consentual sport. You aren't
allowed to kill people, consentual or otherwise.
\_ Ok, let's say there is no intent to kill. Let's say that
ilyas and john hate each other and want to humiliate each
other to settle their scores. They're happy to bruise each
other and may fight it out using nothing but their fists.
Is this legal at all?
\_ Yes unless a passing cop decides to nail us for disturbing
the peace or any number of other reasons, or in response to
someone complaining about two crazy people beating each
other up. And then, that doesn't keep either of us from
calling the cops on the other for assault, or from filing
a civil suit. I believe boxers sign all kinds of waivers
before whaling on each other. -John
\_ In a gun duel intent to kill wouldn't matter. If you killed
someone it would be manslaughter at least. But yeah, I
imagine if you had a fight in the privacy of your own home
voluntarily with eachother, and without lasting injury there
wouldn't be any legal recourse. -pp
\_ Yes, its called boxing. Get a ring.
\_ GUN DUEL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel
\_ CA had a specific provision in the penal code that made Dueling
a separate offense. This was repealed in 1994. Some states still
have such provisions. Strictly speaking a separate provision is
not required to punish dueling b/c it is a general principle that
one cannot consent to a crime against one's person. If both ppl
survive they are both probably guilty of attempted 1st degree
premeditated murder. If one dies the other is guilty of 1st
degree murder. Note that there is no self defense argument b/c
the duelers created the dangerous situation.
\- this is a silly question but for the rest of you with
some interest in legal history, you may wish to read
about Ashford v. Thornton. --lord blackstone
\_ Interesting. Thanks. For more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_duel
Summary: Until 1819 dueling was an alternate
dispute resolution method.
\- well i dont think that is fully the "take away"...
it raises the issue of stale law, the evolution
of law, the back and forth between law and
what you might call epistemology. the interesting
detail here is it was essentially forgotten that
trial by battle was still on the books. it wasnt
like 1819 was the year parliament finally got rid
of it ... dueling and trial by battle being common
until then. there had not been a case of trial
by battle for ~200yrs before that and "the system"
was sort of at a loss about what to do. anyway,
if you are interested in legal history, this book
is very interesting ... Charles Rembar: The Law
of the Land. see also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Rembar
\_ it is still much cheaper and saves a lot more time
than litigation. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40909 Activity:nil |
12/7 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051207/od_nm/garbage_dc Call of nature saves German man. HEIL GERMAN MAN! |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/HW, Computer/SW/OS] UID:40910 Activity:nil |
12/7 I'm using Gallery 1.x right now for my online photo album,
and I'm wondering whether I should upgrade to 2.x. Is
anyone using 2, and is it worth the upgrade? Thanks. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:40911 Activity:kinda low |
12/7 Sure, call me crazy, but is there a way to run Perl on a PDA?
I stfw, and all I found was a 2001 article on http://Perl.com saying
that it's impossible, but in tech terms, this is like finding a
1930s article saying it's impossible to send a man to the moon.
\_ uh... which PDA? I don't see why not, and probably the only
issue is limited memory.
\_ I wouldn't say limited memory is an issue w/ PDAs these
days. I think my Treo has more memory than my first linux
box (it certainly has a bigger "hard drive" - 1 GB flash)
\_ Well, your Treo still has only 16 MB of RAM, much of which
is probably in use. The 1 GB flash doesn't really help
here. And even then, Palm OS has a pretty puny stack.
Anyhow, it's still an issue for some PDAs, hence my
question about which one.
\_ Well, it's more of a wishlist kind of thing. I'd like
a PDA that I test some scripts on; being able to read
a PDA that I can test some scripts on; being able to read
ebooks and listen to music on it wouldn't be bad, either.
Suggestions?
\_ There is something for WinCE:
http://www.rainer-keuchel.de/wince/perlce.html
Supposedly there is a port to PalmOS, but it looks dead:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/palmperl
I think there are some Linux based PDAs that come w/
Perl (Zarus?)
\_ Is the Zaurus discontinued? I'm having a hard time finding one
for sale....
\_ Is JavaScript close enough? We have pretty good DOM/JS support in
recent versions of the AvantGo client. --dbushong
\_ Sorry, no, Perl-heavy work environment. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Uncategorized] UID:40912 Activity:nil |
12/7 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4462791062611472906 German music video of "Total Eclipse of the Heart" |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:40913 Activity:kinda low |
12/7 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10367598 FYI, if you click the MSNBC TV Video (Internet Explorer only), the witness says the crazy dude never said anything. Yes on the crazy, but you just have to take the air marshal people's word on the bomb threat and the reaching into the bag. \_ Remember that Brazilian dude they shot in London who they claimed had been running and jumped over the turnstyles and everything? It was a bunch of crap. He was just sitting there when they shot him. Cops will say anything to cover for other cops. \_ The discrepancy between the official account and witness accounts on the bomb threat is now leading on http://CNN.com. Incidentally, I was the evil person who first wrote about this discrepancy on Wikipedia last night, and also wrote an e-mail then to the WP and NYT. Well, now the lead is "White House backs air marshals", and the witness accounts are only shown when you click through ... but witness discrepancies are only shown when you click through ... but I don't want to get into that.-op |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Computer/Networking] UID:40914 Activity:nil |
12/7 Anyone know of a good reseller that sells refurbished Cisco Callcenter
bundles as well as provide install and support? Any other vendors for
internal company VOIP providers that I should look at?
\_ Calltower, NEC BNS, SBC are all good resellers. -shac |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40915 Activity:moderate |
12/7 The Third Geneva Convention clearly states that it applies
in all cases (see Article 2) even if the other side does
not follow it. And that the signatories are prohibited
from engaging in "outrages upon personal dignity, in
particular, humiliating and degrading treatment" (Article 3)
upon any POW (Article 4) including anyone from the former armed
forces who has laid down their arms. If there is *any*doubt*
about the persons status, they are assumed to be POWs until
a "Competent Military Tribunal" has determined their
status (Article 5). This was clearly not followed by the
Bush Administration.
\_ You sure about Article 2? My read is that if there are three
warring Powers and two Powers are signatories and one is not,
the one Power is the exception.
\_ No, not sure. But Iraq said it would follow the Geneva
Convention.
\_ Yeah, even Dubya said Geneva applies in Iraq ... however,
the Dubya legal team have often pointed to Article 4, Section
A.2 to indicate that some detainees aren't covered. As to
whether they check people against this rule formally, well ...
yeah, if they didn't do that, we would be violating Article 5,
wouldn't we?
\_ Furthermore, the Fourth Geneva Convention is intended to
apply to all not covered by the Third.
\_ No cigar. Article 5, "[w]here in the territory of a Party to
the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual
protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in
activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual
person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges
under the present Convention..." In other words, armed
insurgents, and in a later paragraph spies and saboteurs, are
not covered by Fourth Convention. Fortunately, "such persons
shall nevertheless be treated with humanity and, in case of
trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular
trial prescribed by the present Convention. They shall also be
granted the full rights and privileges of a protected person
under the present Convention at the earliest date consistent
with the security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case
may be." You can certainly argue the lack of humanity. When
there is a trial, they will have to be treated according to
terms laid out in the treaty. Unfortunately, we probably get
to decide when the trail takes place or whether better treatment
is consistent with our security.
\_ Yes, everyone agrees that the Geneva Convention (via Article 2)
applies in Iraq. Unfortunately, all that article says is that the
Geneva Convention applies. Article 4 defines to whom the treaty
applies. Unfortunately, according to Article 4, it's unlikely
the Iraqi insurgents are covered. Fortunately, Article 4 also
clearly lays out what the insurgents ("organized resistance
movements" in the language of the treaty) have to do to be covered
(having a commander, fixed visible sign, open carry, following
laws and customs of war). Now why the insurgents would not
follow these simple rules is beyond me.
\_ Don't forget Article 5, which says if there's "any doubt" that
someone can be covered by Geneva, they get protection until
a "competent tribunal" judges otherwise.
\_ And the administration would say that it approaches mathe-
matical certainty that the Iraqi insurgents do not meet the
requirements in Article 4 for an "organized resistance
movement" (i.e. command structure, fixed visible sign, open
carry, following laws and customs of war). Therefore they
are not bound by the "any doubt" provision in Article 5.
OTOH, I am sure the adminstration and members of the US
armed forces would be *thrilled* if the insurgents decided
to act in ways consistent with the requirements of Article 4.
The insurgents may choose to come under the protection of the
Geneva Convention any time by altering their tactics and
behavior.
\_ 4.6 is probably a better bet for the insurgents than
4.2 b/c 4.6 only requires them to adhere to the customs
of war.
Re competent tribunal - this can be almost anything
including a summary procedure by a jag officer. I
think it will be exceedingly difficult to find a
single instance where someone hasn't looked over the
case and made an Art 4 determination.
\_ OBTW, your claim that Article 4 covers "anyone form the former
armed forces who has laid down their arms" is clearly misleading.
If you read Article 4, those people are only covered by the
treaty "if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason
of such allegiance [of belonging or having belonged to the armed
forces of the occupied country] to intern them". IOW, if a former
member of the armed forces were arrested for being a former member
of the armed forces, then they are protected by the Convention.
If the former member of the armed forces were arrested for (say)
shoplifting, then that person is *not* protected. |
| 2005/12/7 [Uncategorized] UID:40916 Activity:nil 57%like:40919 |
12/7 http://maps.a9.com/?mapMode=m&mapBvr=&ypLoc=94720&mapFrom=&mapTo= Click somewhere on the map, then on a picture on the right side to see medium-res photos of Cal. Have phun. I believe there is nothing which indicates which direction they took the photos. |
| 2005/12/7-9 [Uncategorized] UID:40919 Activity:nil 57%like:40916 |
12/7 http://maps.a9.com/?mapMode=m&mapBvr=&ypLoc=94720&mapFrom=&mapTo= Drag the magnifying glass somewhere on the map, then mouseover and click on the images on the right side to see medium-res photos of Cal. Have phun. I did this for my neighborhood in SoCal, and those photos are ~ 2 years old. |
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