Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:16 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2005/11/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack] UID:40607 Activity:kinda low
11/15   jblack, thank you so much for posting freeper links! I used to
        be a brainwashed knee-jerking liberal but after reading a few
        of your links I finally see things from your perspective and
        boy is it liberating or what! You have been right all along
        and it is now my mission to post freeper links as well to
        educate ignorant liberals to see things from our perspectives...
        the right perspective. Thank you jblack, keep up the
        good work and God bless.                -conservative convert
        \_ Is it so hard to let other people talk without insulting them?
           \_ I think the jblack fetishist goes a bit beyond just insults.
              He does seem to have successfully chased jblack away.  We
              all owe him our thanks.
              \_ motd, sanitized for your protection.
        \_ Good, now maybe you can figure out what is going on with
           Able Danger.  Never seen anything like this.
           Weldon to reveal new 'Able Danger' details
           http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47310
           http://         http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47310 -jblack
          http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47310 -jblack
           \_ You have never seen politicians lie and cover-up in an
              attempt to look better? You must not have been paying
              attention before.
2005/11/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:40608 Activity:nil
11/15   Big news: Bob Woodward knew about Valerie Plame before any other
        journalist, and was not told by Karl Rove or Scooter Libby:
        http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/007024.php
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501857.html?nav=rss_politics/administration
        \_ but Libby's still a liar and obstructor, right?
           did you also know that Woodward is anti-Fitzgerald, and Fitzgerald
           was informed of the conversation w/Woodward a week after the
           indictment?
           \_ Yup.  Woodward is a slime - apparently he's appeared on many
              talk shows denouncing the investigation without acknowledging
              his involvement.
        \_ Cool! Another official who revealed classified information to
           indict.
        \_ More to the point, will they jail Woodward if he refuses to name
           his source?
           \_ He did name his source to Fitzgerald + Grand Jury + senior
              WaPo managers - and they all won't be talking about it.
              \_ Why wouldn't Fitzgerald talk about it? Seems to me that
                 he would like to get that person on the witness stand
                 and cross examine them.
                 \_ By "talk about it", I think he meant "to the press".
2005/11/16-17 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:40609 Activity:kinda low
11/15   [unrelated to politics] My debian machine at home (I'm learning and
        tinkering) seems to spin the HD down occasionally.  I'd like to never
        spin down the HD (or at least control which hours it can).  Any
        pointers to doing this?
        \_ # apt-get install hdparm
           # hdparm -S 0 /dev/hda
           \_ okay.  Is there any way to query the setting (I can't find
              anything in the man page).  Thanks for the pointer BTW.
              \_ # hdparm -I /dev/hda    but on my disk, the actual
                   standby values don't appear to be listed there.
                   \_ Okay.  I'd found -I but as in your case didn't find
                      anything indicating the current spindown setting.
                      \_ Maybe it isn't possible to query for that?
                      \_ Just wanted to point out that was not in your
                         original question.
        \_ How dare you to ask a technical question here? What do you think
           this is, a compurer science student association?
2005/11/16-17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40610 Activity:nil 90%like:40601
11/15   Pentagon used white phosphorous in Iraq:
        http://tinyurl.com/8phfo (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ yeah, we know.  the u.s. didn't sign any treaties prohibiting WP use
           as an anti-personnel weapon against combatants, so it's "legal" ...
           even though it fucks up your lungs (in enclosed spaces) and also
           acts as napalm-lite (if it gets on you).  Your jaw only falls off
           with long-term exposure (months/years).  fyi, it's "legal" to use
           napalm against military targets too, although the military says it
           decommissioned its napalm stores (they had better napalm-like stuff
           to use in 2003 Baghdad, no need for Original Napalm(TM)).
           \_ The very concept of legal or illegal weapons is just stupid.
              If you're willing to kill people, you're willing to kill people.
              Civilians get killed by bullets, bombs, fire, cold, disease,
              starvation, land minds, etc, etc in war.  War kills civilians.
              Now if you wanted to declare genocidal race destroying bio
              weapons or nukes or whatever 'illegal' sure, that makes sense
              in a twisted sort of way but not that it matters if someone
              manages to wipe out the entire race anyway.  The M16 has killed
              more people than WP or napalm.  Let's declare the M16 an illegal
              weapon.  Whatever.  This is all bullshit to keep food on the
              table of diplomats, lawyers, politicians, and other scum.
              \_ Is the previous poster an Asian?
              \_ We could flatten the entire country with nukes and we'd be
                 almost 100% sure we would have "won" the war.
        \_ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4442156.stm
           http://chris-floyd.com/fallujah
           Remember when Saddam Hussein was the bad guy for using Chemical
           weapons on civilians? Turns out we are doing the same thing.
           \_ "but is not illegal and is not classified as a chemical
              weapon"
              \_ We should fight with big fluffy pillows instead.
                 Hypoallergenic, of course.  Otherwise that could be
                 construed as biological warfare.  Did we ever not sign
                 a treaty to not use fluffy hypoallergenic pillows in a
                 way we did not use?
                 \_ We should use the neutron bomb.  It's the most moral
                    weapon ever devised.
                    http://boingboing.net/profits_of_fear.html
              \_ Is that what you got from reading those two articles?
        \_ The story from the government keeps changing ...
           1) We didn't use WP
           2) We used it, but only to "light up" the battlefield
           3) We used it, but not in neighborhoods full of civilians
           \_ Yeah, but what do you expect?  I wouldn't be surprised if
              the official rules said "don't use WP to flush out targets"
              but give some marines underfire WP, what do you think
              they're going to do with it?
2005/11/16-17 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/HW/Display] UID:40611 Activity:very high
11/16   Is it me, or it seems like the new Gen Y kids are much more
        tech saavy, independent, self-reliant, outspoken,
        and self-absorbed? Many of the Gen Y kids I manage
        are really bad team players and actually seem quite
        conservative with that "fuck the government, screw the society,
        help thyself" attidude.                         -annoyed Gen X
        \_ Jesus fucking christ.  At least wait until you're 40 to start
           bitching about "these kids today."
        \_ Is that you, Paolo?
        \_ Yes, except there's nothing independent or self-reliant about them.
           They are supported by Mom and Dad. Attitude, conceit, and
           self-absorption I've all noticed, though. This describes my
           little brother and his friends and it makes me nauseated. I
           can't imagine having to work with people like that.
        \_ They are also younger and stupider
        \_ While I see that some newer employees in my group are
           very self-interested, I do not see it as an expression
           of conservative values. What I see is more of a sense of
           privilege and entitlement rather than the conservative
           view that gov should restrain men from injuring one
           other, but otherwise allow them to regulate their own
           affairs.
           very self-interested (I want a flat-screen, I need a
           new computer, I want more options, &c.), I do not see
           it as an expression of conservative values. What I see
           is more of a sense of privilege and entitlement.
           \_ I agree with this also. My bro has been on the job 3 months
              and already asked for (and got) an LCD monitor and a new
              computer. On one hand, good for him. On the other hand,
              he's lucky I'm not his boss. Some people have been there
              10 years and don't have an LCD. He's not as valuable to the
              company as he thinks he is.
              \_ You're using your brother as an example of generational
                 difference between you and 'his' generation?  How much
                 age difference is there?  Also, just for the record, I
                 don't think having an obnoxious sense of entitlement is
                 Gen Y specific.
                 \_ It does seem to be Gen Y specific. I notice it in my
                    nieces and nephews as well. They are the "ME, RIGHT
                    NOW" generation. He's in his early 20s and I'm in my 30s,
                    FWIW.
              \_ This is a very bad example to use for this thread.  Asking
                 for LCD monitor for text-based work is not a "self-
                 interested" thing.  It is _so_ much better for your eyes.
                 For such a little investment, companies that don't provide
                 them are the ones that are "self-interested."  I spent
                 about $1500 of my own money to buy two 17" LCD monitors
                 back when it was still fairly expensive, and brought them
                 to work.  Now, the company provides them, so I took mine
                 home, and now, I have three panels.  I had to cheat a bit
                 and use my own system with two videocards, but it is SO
                 worth it.
                 \_ You say yourself that you bought these things with
                    your own money in the past. There's no way any of
                    these kids would even *think* of doing that. In fact,
                    my brother wants his work to buy one for home use,
                    too, since he works from home a lot. Any way you slice
                    it, that's self-interest. People coded on CRTs for a
                    long time and somehow survived.
              \_ For work?  Dang, there isn't a single person around my
                 work who doesn't have an LCD.  I've just got a 19" Dell
                 LCD, but there's a guy I know who joined about the same
                 time as me who has 2 gigantic Apple LCD monitors.
                 \_ How nice for you. At my work most people have LCDs,
                    but lots of people don't. As their old monitors die
                    they are replaced with LCDs, though. All new systems
                    come with LCDs, if you want one. Anyway, you've missed
                    the point which is the idea that he thinks the company owes
                    him something and he's only been there a few months.
                    \_ I sense Leadership Qualities in your new co-worker!
                       http://csua.org/u/e0w  (work-safe)
                    \_ Yeah, it's the you are SO lucky to have me attitude
                       that bugs me the most.  Its like they are doing the
                       company a favor by coming to work.  Maybe I just
                    \_ Yeah, it is the you are SO lucky to have me attitude
                       that bugs me the most.  They act like they are doing
                       the company a favor by coming to work.  Maybe I just
                       grew up in a different world b/c I always viewed it
                       as a privilege to work for the co.
                       as a privilege to work.
                       \_ its the lack of apostrophes and well-placed quotation
                            \_ Oh, the irony.
                          marks that bugs _me_ the most.
                          \_ fixed.
        \_ Kids these days have no respect for their elders! -Your elders
        \_ The only way to help society is through the government -
           interesting idea. -jblack
           \_ Who said that? Oh right, you did.
        \_ That's what us boomers think about you Gen-Xers too.
        \_ That's what us Boomers think about you Gen-Xers too.
2005/11/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40612 Activity:nil
11/16   How long will it take before Bush's approval rating is as
        high/low as Nixon?
        \_ If he applies himself, I'm sure he can make it by groundhog's day.
2005/11/16-17 [Recreation/Shopping] UID:40613 Activity:high
11/16   What's a good place that carries "business casual" clothes for men?
        I hate shopping so I prefer a one-stop shop.   No internet stores
        please.  Thanks.
        \_ Banana Republic. The Gap if you are a cheapskate.
        \_ Macy's
        \_ Ignore these fools are go to places like Nordstrom Rack, TJ
           \_ Macy's is great.  A step down is JC Penny.
        \_ Ignore these fools and go to places like Nordstrom Rack, TJ
           Maxx, Ross, and Marshall's for all but your nicest clothes.
           You're throwing money away at Gap, BR, and such unless you buy
           when they have massive sales. (Yes, I once bought shirts for $9
           each at Macy's, but that was ONCE and I don't count on it.)
           \_ Buy from the sales rack at BR. I routinely get nice dress
              shirts for under $20 from it.
              \_ If "under $20" is $19.99 then it's not cheap. You can
                 get Polo, Izod, and such shirts for $12-14.
                 \_ Where? Under $20 means exactly that. Sometimes $19,
                    but as low as $10 at times.
           \_ If you are a bargain hunter and shopper, I agree, but OP
              said he hated shopping and wanted one-stop.  Macy's is
              probably the best bet for one stop reasonable quality at
              reasonable prices.
              \_ There is nothing reasonable about Macy's prices. If you
                 want one-stop then go to Marshall's.
                 \_ Reasonable quality at reasonable prices is different
                    from reasonable prices. Sure you can get good prices
                    at Ross or Marshall's, but you are stuck with strange
                    colors and sizes and the selection/quality varies
                    all the time.
                    \_ I disagree, except the part about selection
                       varying. Of course, selection varies at Macy's
                       (or anywhere else) as well.
        \_ Brooks Bros. if you want to spend a bit more--they have very
           nice stuff.  It really depends on what kind of body shape you
           have.  You can also sometimes pick up really nice slacks at
           places like Ross & Marshall's.  I recommend Ernesto's Tailoring
           on the 5th floor of the Flood building (860 Market) in SF to get
           off the rack stuff adjusted--it is a cheap way to get nicely
           fitting clothes, and makes a huge difference.  -John
           \_ Hardly one stop.
              \_ Hm, let's see, slacks, shirts, socks, sweaters, jackets,
                 hm, am I missing something, hm no.  -John
                 \_ Shoes.
                    \_ Dude, go to a shoe store.  Wait until Johnston & Murphy
                       have a sale or something if you don't want to spend the
                       money.  If you absolutely must get EVERYTHING in one
                       place, prepare to either hope for luck finding your
                       stuff at Ross/Marshall's (which are fine for a lot of
                       things), to get ripped off by slimy salesmen at
                       Nordstrom's/Macy's, or spend a bit of money on good
                       quality, well-fitting clothes.  If you don't want to
                       do the research on what to look for, and don't feel like
                       putting in some time shopping for a good deal, don't
                       expect to look good (although some people manage to pull
                       it off, by and large they've put some time and thought
                       into it.)  -John
           \_ John, you have an expensive taste.
2005/11/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:40614 Activity:moderate
11/15   What's a good freeware tool to draw network diagrams with? I used
        to use Visio years ago. I just need to do this once, so I don't
        want to buy a package. I have Powerpoint. Can it do it? Xfig is
        a little primitive? Anything else? Can be UNIX, Mac, or Windows-based.
        \_ OpenOffice has a drawing tool that is pretty lame but
           functional.  -tom
        \_ dia
        \_ LaTEX
        \_ xfig!
        \_ Maybe consider omnigraffle on OS X. There is a free version,
           but it is limited. Personally I think that it is completely
           worth paying for.
           \_ Seconded, plus it does Visio file formats.  -John
        \_ I think M$ Word XP or later has okay diagram tool, I use Word 2000
           and the diagram tool is lame.
           \_ Yeah I think it's called "Visio" :-)  -John
              \_ No, Visio is more powerful than the tool within Word XP.
2005/11/16-17 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:40615 Activity:nil
11/15   http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051116/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy
        Inflation moderates as gas prices dip. Yay! Now we can buy
        our hummers and still feel good about inexpensive gas.
        \_ If you only drive it occasionally, sure.
2005/11/16 [Politics/Foreign] UID:40616 Activity:nil
11/15   http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175678,00.html
        Lawsuit Charges Md. MVA Denies Immigrants Driver's Licenses     -jblack
2005/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:40617 Activity:nil 80%like:40570
11/15   http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/8/93515.shtml
        Bill Clinton: Immigration Crackdown Hurting U.S.
2005/11/16-18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40618 Activity:nil
11/16   http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/16/EDGODFOD6Q1.DTL
        The truth about Bush.
        \_ fyi, as noted at the end of the article, Scheer got fired from the
           L.A. Times as a regular columnist and is now one for the
           SF Chronicle.
2005/11/16-18 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40619 Activity:nil
11/16   The Dilbert 2005 Weasel Awards   http://csua.org/u/e0x
        \_ Stupid.  As usual.
2005/11/16 [Uncategorized] UID:40620 Activity:nil
11/15   You can make up for the weakness in your argument by posting
        a blizzard of crap, but only to a certain extent.
2005/11/16 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40621 Activity:kinda low 75%like:40628
11/16   Can Retailers discrimated/not hire based on looks?
        \_ Sure they can. Being ugly is not a protected class.
           \_ Imagine equal opportunity strip clubs.
2005/11/16-18 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:40622 Activity:nil
11/16   Why doesn't Yahoo Mail use secure web pages?  Does it take a lot more
        hardware resource to run a secure web site?  Thanks.
        \_ Yes.  You need to actually encrypt the pages, which is probably about
           10x as expensive as serving them unencrypted.  So, while not
           resource intensive by modern standards in an absolute sense, 10x
           means 10x as many servers to serve the same load.  That's nothing to
           sniff at for a big provider.
           \_ there are SSL engine systems they could put in front of the
              actual web servers to handle the encryption load and separate
              it from the mail servers.   They're not cheap however.  What
              were you paying for Yahoo Mail's secure mail service, again?
              \_ Are you saying they aren't making any money off of me?
2005/11/16-18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40623 Activity:nil
11/16   "This is even worse than what was happening under Saddam"
        http://csua.org/u/e0y
        (Yahoo News)
2005/11/16-18 [Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40626 Activity:moderate
11/16   So, it was Hadley who was Woodward's source.
        He was Deputy Natl Security Advisor at the time (NSA was Rice), and is
        NSA now.
        \_ url?
           \_ http://news.google.com/news?q=hadley+woodward
        \_ "In his book, Plan of Attack, Woodward says he was given access to
            classified minutes of National Security Council meetings. Both
            Rice and Hadley were major players in these meetings."
           Okay, so he was given access to classified minutes and info. If he
           was aware that the information was classified and he revealed it,
           then he's guilty of revealing classified info. If he did not
           reveal it, then Woodward's a dead-end in this investigation,
           except perhaps to point out that the Administration tried to leak
           the info from multiple sources.
           \_ Are you suggesting that Woodward had some sort of s00perd00per
              sekr!t clearance, and thus revealing classified info to him
              would not be a crime?
              \_ If not, then yes, it's a crime, and Hadley should be charged.
                 If he _was_ given clearance, then no. Either way, Scooter's
                 still in the fryer.
        \_ NYT has hinted the Senior administration official might be Cheney.
           \_ but the NYT is a proven fraud, many times over.
              \_ You don't know what the word "fraud" means. It has not
                 been 100% correct, nothing is, but it has won many
                 Pulitzers for fine reporting. It has certainly got
                 more integrity than the Bush Administration. At least
                 they fire the liars in house, instead of promoting them
                 and giving them Freedom medals.
2005/11/16-18 [Computer/HW/Memory, Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40627 Activity:nil
11/16   Your friend's kid's gadget is cooler than yours
        http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/technology/circuits/17pogue.html
        \_ That's awesome!
        \_ Wait how does it know what you clicked on? Don't you need
           to store the picture somewhere (in memory) and an input
           method (like a tablet)?
        \_ I got to play with one of these a couple of months ago before it
           came out.  It is pretty cool, although the one problem it has it the
           only feedback it can give is audio. Thus, it wouldn't be very easy
           to use in a classroom w/o disturbing everybody.  Also, in order to
           use it, you need to write on special paper that costs about $1 a
           sheet.  Its covered by very tiny dots so the pen knows where it is
           located on the paper at all times.  But I will say that their future
           plans for the Fly pen seem really cool (wireless sync and such).
           \_ It comes with headphones and paper is about 8 cents/sheet.
        \_ I think reading its manual alone will make me dizzy.
2005/11/16-18 [Industry/Jobs] UID:40628 Activity:low 75%like:40621
11/16   Can Retailers discriminate/not hire based on looks?
        \_ No. They sent the ugly ones in the backroom to
           to stock, inventory, and cleaning. For every
           pretty face in front there are at least 3 ugly
           people working in the backroom.
        \_ Sure they can. Being ugly is not a protected class.
           \_ Imagine equal opportunity strip clubs.
                \_ ouch!
                   \_ That would kill the business.  The average American has
                      as much sex appeal as a road accident.
                      \_ Uhm, I don't think that's unique to Americans, man.
                         \_ It's "more" unique to Americans than most
                            \_ Which, in context, is still meaningless.
              \_ Most strip clubs do it financially without fear of being sued
                 for discrimination. Hold an "amateur night" as a tryout. If
                 they don't win, they aren't hired. BTW most strippers are
                 considered contractors who have to pay stage fees in order to
                 dance. If they don't get tips, they are losing money.
        \_ Legally, not as such. However, there are plenty of ways around this
           without actually saying, "We don't hire fatties." Compare/contrast
           with Japan, where such blatantly discrimination is common place.
           \_ what are the best excuses?
              \_ "Thank you for your interest. We have a lot of applicants,
                  and while your application was strong, we went with a
                  stronger match."
        \_ I've been wondering how Hooters (not a retailer) managed to hire
           only hot chicks and yet avoid lawsuits.
           \_ Hooters said it's a bona fide occupational qualification.
              http://csua.org/u/e12
              \_ Thanks!!!
              \_ Time to open up a chain of "longcox" restaurants
                 \_ "Thank you for your interest. We have a lot of applicants,
                    and while your application was long, we went with a
                    longer match."
2017/09/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/24    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:16 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>