Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:15 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2005/11/15 [Uncategorized] UID:40587 Activity:nil
11/15   Just curious, what is this "mohammand" thing in the minutes with
        $1 in, four quarters out?
        \_ I don't really know, but I guess there's some guy name
           mohammand who comes around the office to buy (steal) candy.
           Everyone knows him, but he probably isn't actually a member of
           the CSUA.  I would recommend watching the friend he was
           bragging to very carefully as well.
        \_ Well this was a disciplinary measure so it shouldn't have been in
           the minutes at all, but getting Lin to write clear minutes is like
           squeezing water from a stone.  By the way, his name was "Mohammed"
           or whatever way he spells his name. -mrauser
           \_ That's true, but I'd still like to see a report on the first
              time someone kicks him out of the office.  You should put a
              pic up in the office too.
2005/11/15 [Uncategorized] UID:40590 Activity:nil 80%like:40595
11/15   hi, i'm back!
        http://public.fotki.com/moregleny/gleny_girls/cheryl
        http://image50.webshots.com/150/6/17/77/495461777CBXbrB_fs.jpg
        \_ Horny girl!
        http://community.webshots.com/user/cutie84211
2005/11/15-17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40591 Activity:nil
11/15   buy EMRG .. at 30 cents.. might go up when Bush visits
        japan for opening beef market..
        \_ Might go down when Bush fails.
        \_ Hey, are you the same guy who was pimping EMRG as providing
           big returns compared to soething like PEP, back when EMRG was at
           2.00 and PEP was at 48?  (PEP is now at 58.59).   -tom
           \_ i made a nice profit on it.. then it went back down
             again.. it's a pure speculative play so PEP and all
                that stuff doesnt mean a thing..
             \_ Right...http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EMRG&t=2y
                I'm sure you sold it on one of the two days when it reached
                2.50, and that's why you're here trying to pump it again. -tom
           \_ EMGR is for pure speculation (stay away), and PEP is a solid
              company.
2005/11/15-17 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:40592 Activity:nil
11/15   Ali, is it you?  http://ifun.ru/picture12733.html
        \_ No, but this is: http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet
2005/11/15 [Science/Biology] UID:40593 Activity:very high
11/15   "Some well-respected scientists have fostered the spread of
        intelligent design. Henry F. Schaefer, director of the Center
        for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of
        Georgia, has written or co-authored 1,082 scientific papers
        and is one of the world's most widely cited chemists by other
        researchers.

        Mr. Schaefer teaches a freshman seminar at Georgia entitled:
        "Science and Christianity: Conflict or Coherence?" He has
        spoken on religion and science at many American universities,
        and gave the "John M. Templeton Lecture" -- funded by the
        foundation -- at Case Western Reserve in 1992, Montana State
        in 1999, and Princeton and Carnegie Mellon in 2004. "Those
        who favor the standard evolutionary model are in a state of
        panic," he says. "Intelligent design truly terrorizes them."

        This past April, the school of science at Duquesne University,
        a Catholic university in Pittsburgh, abruptly canceled its
        sponsorship of a lecture by Mr. Schaefer in its distinguished
        scientist series. According to David Seybert, dean of the
        Bayer School of Natural and Environmental Sciences,
        Mr. Schaefer was invited at the suggestion of a faculty member
        belonging to a Christian fellowship group on campus. The
        invitation was withdrawn after several biology professors
        complained that Mr. Schaefer planned to speak in favor of
        intelligent design. The school wanted to avoid "legitimizing
        intelligent design from a scientific perspective," Mr. Seybert
        said.  Faculty members were also concerned that top students
        might not apply to Duquesne if they thought it endorsed
        intelligent design. Mr. Schaefer gave his lecture -- entitled
        "The Big Bang, Stephen Hawking, and God" -- to a packed hall at
        Duquesne under the auspices of a Christian group instead."

        From yesterday's WSJ article "Darwinian Struggle At Some
        Colleges, Classes Questioning Evolution Take Hold":
        http://tinyurl.com/aq2qp  (if you have subscription)

        Huh?  How come top scientists can believe in such ridiculous
        theories?
             \_ Please use a link to a file or accessible URL if you
                are going to quote large blocks of text.  That makes
                the motd works better for us all.
                \_ You are welcomed to put the text in a file with
                   a link, and then you can delete it from the motd.
        Huh?  How come top scientists can believe in such ridiculous
        theories?
        \_ How can motd posters post with such horrible formatting?
           \_ Obviously the OP wasn't designed intelligently.
              \_ Actually, I am more of an evolutionary dead end.
        \_ Pause and pull back. ID, as a philosophy or extension of theology,
           has been embraced by a number of gifted scientists (including
           Newton). The trick is where people take this out of the realm of
           theology or philosophy and instead attempt to present it to the
           exclusion of actual science, i.e., evolution. In other words, if
           you believe that G_d created everything through the Big Bang and
           you believe that **God** created everything through the Big Bang and
           created life (and us) through evolution, there's no conflict
           between ID and science. It's when you start to say that the
           Bible must be taken literally instead of allegorically that the
           whole thing becomes ridiculous.
           \_ Newton was pre-Darwin, when there was no Theory of Evolution yet
              to explain things.
              \_ Darwin's theory doesn't really explain very much. That
                 doesn't mean the alternative is that God created
                 everything, but why do people always treat evolution as
                 case closed? There are still many more questions than
                 answers.
                 \_ "why do people always treat evolution as case closed?"
                    Another attempt to tweak facts to discredit TE.
                    \_ Not tweaking any facts, but biologists almost
                       universally believe TE explains all life as we know
                       it while making some really big leaps of faith
                       themselves. Unlike, say, QM, there isn't even
                       really any math to lay a groundwork with. Just some
                       observations and a giant leap.
                                    \- there isnt a complete theory of
                                       turbulence either. do you fly in
                                       planes?
                                       \_ Airflow around my spherical plane is
                                          perfectly laminar. -physicist
                                          \- that's no moon
                                       \_ No.  I ride a mule myself.
                                          \_ No bestiality on motd please.
                       \_ Yes, sometimes it seems to be that the assumptions
                          and reasoning are as follows:
                          (1) we have to come from somewhere.
                          (2) it has to be a natural process.
                          (3) TE fits (1) and (2) so we really like it, and
                              will consider case closed even though it has
                              some holes.
                 \_ "people always treat evolution as case closed?"  Another
                    fact-tweaking by the ID people?
           \_ but I think the ID under discussion is the one that
              espouses "reducible complexity".
        \_ I think the biggest problem with ID is that it is a "scientific
           theory" that says "there's no need for further science because of
           <magic thing X>"  What's advanced science since the dawn of time
           are the people who say "no, that's not magic, how does it work/
           how did it happen?"  If we accept any type of supernatural effect
           as a complete scientific explanation for something, we're greatly
           hurting the cause.  I think even people who believe in a creator
           should see this.
           \_ I don't think this is true, at least according to my
              understanding. If so, then I think different people have
              different ideas about ID.
              \_ You're right.  There are currents among the ID that are
                 young-earth creationists, and some that aren't.  They all,
                 however, are trying to codify their religion into science.
                 Which is never a good idea. -emarkp
                 \_ You're like a communist who champions property rights.
                    It's nice to see anyone supporting property rights, but
                    a communist is still a communist.  Likewise with a
                    religious conservative who does not want to destroy
                    American science.
           \_ I agree with you that ID cannot stand as a scientific theory,
              but is "irrreducible complexity" valid as a critique of
              the evolution theory?
              \_ I think it's something we don't understand, like how black
                 holes are generally accepted, but we don't understand the
                 physics of an actual singularity, IIRC.
                 \_ hmm .. but in the case of "irreducibly complex", TE
                    is directly challenged, while in the case of the
                    blackhole, it's just that the math breaks down, and
                    we can't understand things once that happens.
                    \_ But in the case of evolution, we've encountered
                       "irreducable" complexity before, and then later we figure
                       out how it could have happened.  (e.g. eye lens
                       evolution)  What makes the current "irreducable"
                       wall any more certain?
                       \_ Did you find the explanation on how it could've
                          happened convincing?
                          \_ I did.  Read "The Blind Watchmaker."  --PeterM
                             \_ what do you think of this:
                                http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9203/watchmkr.html
              \_ I don't think so.  It ignores the possibility of an
                 intermediate form which wasn't irreducible, which then
                 simplified into the now-irreducible form.  It also assumes
                 that current biological structures/organisms labelled as
                 irreducible have been labelled correctly. -emarkp
                 \_ that's the whole point right?  you need to chart a
                    path of small evolutionary steps to arrive at the
                    complex structure, with each of the intermediate form
                    making evolutinary sense (i.e. each step a positive
                    improvement).
                    \_ The whole point?  I don't quite understand what you mean
                       by that, but /my/ point is that something that is
                       irriducible now may have evolved from something that
                       wasn't irriducible. -emarkp
                       \_ Am I missing something?  You are not making sense.
                          \_ Evolution means things change over time.  One form
                             that's an advantage but more complex could evolve
                             to something that's an advantage but is simpler
                             (more efficient).  There's nothing about evolution
                             that declares that every step is more complex or
                             has a purpose easy to identify. -emarkp
                          \_ We should have stopped at atoms. Everything
                             on the quantum level is too complex.
2005/11/15 [Reference/Religion] UID:40594 Activity:nil
11/15   Here's one for all you Christian haters out there:
        http://csua.org/u/e0k
        "Religious teen" shoots girlfriend's parents in the head an runs
        off with her.
2005/11/15 [Recreation/Dating] UID:40595 Activity:nil 80%like:40590
11/15   hi, i'm back!
        http://public.fotki.com/moregleny/gleny_girls/cheryl
        \_ Why does that ugly guy deserve such a hot woman?
           \_ Money has always been able to buy love, or a simulation
              of love.
        http://image50.webshots.com/150/6/17/77/495461777CBXbrB_fs.jpg
        \_ Horny girl!
        http://community.webshots.com/user/cutie84211
2005/11/15-17 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:40596 Activity:nil
11/15   http://csua.org/u/e0n (huffingtonpost.com)
        http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1559
        Previously accurate Ohio predictions wildly inaccurate for this year's
        Ohio referendum issues.
        \_ And you didn't go to the talk last week on electronic voting
           security?  For shame.
        \_ Why don't we just forego elections altogether and just determine the
           winner by polls.
        \_ These articles are really weak.
2005/11/15-17 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:40597 Activity:moderate
11/15   Newsweek poll  http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm
        "Would you support the use of torture ... if it might lead to the
        prevention of a major terrorist attack, or not?"
        Yes 58%   No 35%
        "What if the use of torture ... makes it more likely that Americans
        will be tortured by our enemies? ..."
        Yes 36%   No 57%
        Americans support torture if it might prevent a major terrorist attack
        ... yet do not support torture if it could lead to U.S. troops getting
        tortured ... Therefore, SECRET TORTURE FACILITIES!</troll>
        \- I'd like to see the results for "Would you support torturing an
           anti-abortion protestor who has planted a TICKING BOMB in a
           abortion-clinic/daycare?"
           \_ most pro-lifers do not support bombing of these clinics.
              (no one is in the abortion center at the time of the bombing)
        \_ "What if the torture would only be used on individuals with different
            religious beliefs/race than your own?"
                \_ Did everyone here see the "amazing stories" story in the
                   1980s about the broke couple who gets a visit from a man
                   who gives them a box with a big red button.  He tells them
                   if they press the big red button "someone they don't know
                   will die", and they will receive $100,000.  They agonize
                   about pressing the button for a long time and finally
                   decide they need the money so they press the button.  Like
                   magic the man shows up with a suitcase full of cash
                   immediately, and takes the box with the red button back.
                   When they ask where the box with
                   the red button is going, the answer is "To someone you
                   don't know"
              \_ Bullshit.
        \_ "What if the torture would only be used on individuals with
            different religious beliefs/race than your own?"
            \_ Did everyone here see the "amazing stories" story in the 1980s
               about the broke couple who gets a visit from a man who gives
               them a box with a big red button.  He tells them if they press
               the big red button "someone they don't know will die", and they
               will receive $100,000.  They agonize about pressing the button
               for a long time and finally decide they need the money so they
               press the button.  Like magic the man shows up with a suitcase
               full of cash immediately, and takes the box with the red button
               back.  When they ask where the box with the red button is going,
               the answer is "To someone you don't know"
               \_ Yeah, I really liked that.  I thought it was 'The Outer
                  Limits', though.
                      \_ I think it was Twilight Zone, and the ep name was
                         "Button, Button".
                  \_ I think it was Twilight Zone, and the ep name was "Button,
                     Button".
                     \_ Yeah I probably mixed up the name of the show ...
                        Those 2 shows were very similar.
                            \_ They were all pretty much the same basic
                               concept.  That was around the same era where
                               "V" was such a big deal.  I remember *really*
                               liking that show (and, of course, "Something
                               is Out There").  That was a great era of
                               television, in some respects.
                        \_ They were all pretty much the same basic concept.
                           That was around the same era where "V" was such a
                           big deal.  I remember *really* liking that show
                           (and, of course, "Something is Out There").  That
                           was a great era of television, in some respects.
                           \_ Along with "Tales from the Darkside"
                              \_ Was that the show with that idiotic Crypt
                                 Keeper?
                                 \_ Tales from the Crypt.
                                    \_ Ah, right, that makes sense.
                                           Damn, so between 85 and 90 there
                                           were, what, 5 shows of that general
                                           type?  At least 6 if you stretch out
                                           to 95 to catch "The New Outer
                                           Limits."
                                       Damn, so between 85 and 90 there were,
                                       what, 5 shows of that general type?  At
                                       least 6 if you stretch out to 95 to
                                       catch "The New Outer Limits."
                             \_ Freddy Kreuger was in V.
                                \_ Right -- Willie, the semi-retarded alien.
                                   \- what was the movie that takes place in
                                      france that involves a guy paying
                                      somebody else to take his place in an
                                      execution (by the nazis?) or something
                                      like that? the tenth man or something
                                      name like that? famous movie. may have
                                      been a short story too. you may also
                                      wish to see the famous TROLLY PROBLEM.
                                      \_ Err, I'm thinking of the mid-80's
                                         scifi epic miniseries with Mark
                                         Singer about lizards that come to
                                         earth in the name of peace to steal
                                         our water, our women and our
                                         environmentalists.  I don't...I don't
                                         think France was directly involved.
                                         Englund played a mostly sympathetic
                                         but rather meek alien that ends up
                                         defecting to the human side or
                                         something.
                                         \- i'm not thinking of what you are
                                            thinking of.
                                            \_ yes, I sort of got that sense :P
        \_ I find it funny that this political troll has turned into
           a discussion on sci fi shows.
2005/11/15-17 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40598 Activity:nil
11/15   Amusing reviews of the weapons used in Iraq.  (Later it turns into
        go-america type stuff.  You can skip that if you like)
        http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/133585.php
        \_ Interesting stuff, mostly new information for me.
           But scroll to near the bottom for a post that challenges it.
2005/11/15 [Uncategorized] UID:40599 Activity:nil
(restored for your pleasure)
2005/11/15-17 [Health/Sleeping, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40600 Activity:nil
11/15   9/11 is Sacred.  Except when it's not:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051115/ap_on_go_co/sept11_aid
        \_ I can almost hear the House saying "What? You still here?"
        \_ I can actually agree with the Congress on this one.  The money
           was only meant to treat "long-term lung and mental health problems"
           I mean, do you really need 125 million to treat lung and mental
           health problems for the workers on site?  I don't think so.
           \_ Um.  wow.  How many people do you think were expose to the dust
              there?  How much do you think medical care actually costs?
              How much do you think $125 million actually gets you?
2005/11/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40601 Activity:kinda low 90%like:40610
11/15   Pentagon used white phosphorous in Iraq:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051116/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/iraq_white_phosphorous
        \_ yeah, we know.  the u.s. didn't sign any treaties prohibiting WP use
           as an anti-personnel weapon against combatants, so it's "legal" ...
           even though it fucks up your lungs (in enclosed spaces) and also
           acts as napalm-lite (if it gets on you).  Your jaw only falls off
           with long-term exposure (months/years).
           with long-term exposure (months/years).  fyi, it's "legal" to use
           napalm against military targets too, although the military says it
           decommissioned its napalm stores (they had better napalm-like stuff
           to use in 2003 Baghdad, no need for Original Napalm(TM)).
           \_ The very concept of legal or illegal weapons is just stupid.
              If you're willing to kill people, you're willing to kill people.
              Civilians get killed by bullets, bombs, fire, cold, disease,
              starvation, land minds, etc, etc in war.  War kills civilians.
              Now if you wanted to declare genocidal race destroying bio
              weapons or nukes or whatever 'illegal' sure, that makes sense
              in a twisted sort of way but not that it matters if someone
              manages to wipe out the entire race anyway.  The M16 has killed
              more people than WP or napalm.  Let's declare the M16 an illegal
              weapon.  Whatever.  This is all bullshit to keep food on the
              table of diplomats, lawyers, politicians, and other scum.
              \_ Is the previous poster an Asian?
2005/11/15-17 [Politics/Domestic] UID:40602 Activity:low
11/15   I hear that congress is spending 62 billion to rebuild new orleans. Is
        it just me or does that not seem like a hell of a lot?  Do we really
        need to foot the bill for building it back better than it ever was
        before?  This won't fix the fact that its still below sea level.
        I suppose some portion of the 62 billion will be going to levee
        enhancement.  -mrauser
        \_ the overall process didn't seem very scientific, did it?
           \_ I think capitalism should rebuild New Orleans. If there's
              value to being there, then investors will pay to rebuild.
              The government should stay out of it, except *perhaps* to
              repair the levees and interstate highway. Why is the entire
              US paying to repair NO when mostly a rich few investors are
              going to benefit by it?
              \_ Run for congress.
              \_ I totally agree! Fuck socialism, it only works when
                 you're always on the receiving end. We as
                 superior Northerners should have succeded from the
                 South that keeps leeaching and gives nothing back.
2005/11/15-17 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:40603 Activity:nil
11/15   DVD Player for Atheists:
        http://tinyurl.com/9y393 (gizmodo.com)
2005/11/15-17 [Uncategorized] UID:40604 Activity:nil
11/15   Mousepad couch:
        http://www.rit.edu/~jpsdss/couch
        \_ Is that his office, or his jail cell?
2005/11/15-17 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:40605 Activity:nil
11/15   Bruce Willis offers $1 million bounty for terrorists:
        http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_27261601.shtml
        \_ I thought the U.S. gov't had a 20 million bounty on Bin Laden
           already.  I could think of better ways for him to spend a million
           dollars if he wants to help kill terrorists.
        \_ A reality version of Die Hard?
2005/11/15-17 [Transportation/Car] UID:40606 Activity:moderate
11/15   THE Bond DB5 is for sale:
        http://tinyurl.com/aabwq (cnn.com)
        \_ Millions for a car that does 0-60 in 8.1 seconds?  Nah.
           \_ If there were a Nobel prize for missing the point, you'd just
              have won it.  -John
           \_ I completely agree. How could anyone think of buying
              a DB5 when they could get a fully r1c3d c1v1c type R
              w/ a prelude engine swap? I mean the DB5 doesn't even
              have an in-dash cd changer, ipod integration, dvd-nav
              or a ps/2 in the glove box.
              \_ So easily trolled...
                 \_ So easily trolled...
                    \_ Your torn-up koran is in the glove compartment of my
                       0-60 in 8.1 seconds babe magnet DB-5.  -John
                       \_ Perhaps you should keep a Walther PPK in the
                          glove box in case of GUN DUEL. :-)
                          \_ Are you scared?       -ilyas
                          \_ My Mossberg 12-gauge fits in the trunk.  -John
              \_ ...... or a spoiler that looks like a high chair feeding tray.
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/21    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:15 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>