Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:14 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2005/11/14 [Uncategorized] UID:40571 Activity:nil
11/11   Oh please...
        \_ Huh?
2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40572 Activity:high
11/14   http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/14/opinion/14blochemarks.html?hp
        US using torture techniques learned from the North Vietnamese and
        North Koreans.  w00t!!
        \_ http://tinypic.com/fneaza.jpg
        \- the world is flat! globalization!
        \_ How very kind of the US to legitimize the torture of US
           citizens by NV and NK.  I mean, if it's OK for the US to torture,
           it must be OK to torture US citizens.
        \_ How very kind of the US to legitimize the torture of US citizens
           by NV and NK.  I mean, if it's OK for the US to torture, it must
           be OK to torture US citizens.
           \_ I don't believe in torture but this is not the reason why.
              Whether or not we torture others has no bearing on what others
              will do to Americans overseas.  No thug has ever said to himself,
              "Gee, I'd really like to rip this guy's teeth out and cut off
               some fingers but his country would never do that to me so I'll
               just give him a holy book of his choice, 3 squares, and hold
               him indefinitely instead".
                \_ It doesn't work directly like that.  However, the fewer
                   countries do it, the easier it is for the non-torturing
                   countries to exert influence on the torturing countries
c                  countries to exert influence on the torturing countries
                   in a variety of ways.  There are lots of other benefits
                   to being a non-torturing country, for example making it
                   easier to get support from moderates in your fight against
                   the extremists.
                   \_ Moderate countries or moderate citizens in your own?
                      Internal support is required to a _limited_ extent in
                      a democracy.  In a heavy handed dictatorship, support
                      from the militarty and secret services are the only
                      necessary groups.  There are no 'moderate' countries.
                      Countries exist to benefit their population.  They are
                      naturally self-interested and will do what is necessary
                      to further their own ends.
                      \_ This is not really how the real world works. I know
                         it works that way in Civ II, but in a dictatorship
                         it is probably even more important to keep the
                         general populace either on your side or in fear
                         of you.
                         \_ I don't play Civ II so I don't know what you're
                            talking about.  In a dictatorship, you can isolate
                            and brainwash the people as seen in NK but that
                            sort of isolation is economy crushing, as seen in
                            NK, or you can beat them down with the military
                            and secret service as seen in most dictatorships
                            around the world through out time.  Since getting
                            beat down = fear, I think we're in agreement.
                            \- "we've replaced the political science dept
                               with a Civilization lab ..."
                       \_ In other countries.  Most moderate Muslims, before
                          9/11 and subsequent invasions, thought highly of
                          the United States, especially of our freedoms,
                          freedoms they would love to have in their countries.
                          But when you rain down bombs on them and start up
                          torture facilities why would they continue to help
                          us against the fruitcakes in their countries who
                          wish us harm?
                          \_ Exactly who are these moderate Muslims who
                             loved us so?  And you have the second part
                             backwards.  If they got rid of the fruit cakes
                             in their countries, there'd be no interest in
                             bombing them.
                                \_ http://tinyurl.com/dzngj
                                   "In Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim
                                    country, three quarters of the people
                                    said they were attracted to the United
                                    States. After the Iraq War, that had
                                    dropped to 15 percent."
                                \_ The United States WAS very popular in
                                   Muslim countries before 9/11 -- and so
                                   was President Clinton.  The fruitcakes
                                   can't do much without moderate support.
                                   \_ You're nuts.  What countries?  Are you
                                      aware, for example, how often Muslim
                                      countries vote with us in the GA at the
                                      UN?  Last I checked a few years ago it
                                      was averaging around 22% (during the
                                      Clinton years).  The fruitcakes are doing
                                      a-OK without moderate support.  Pick a
                                      year and get a history book and see how
                                      many acts of terror were committed around
                                      the world that year.  You can do it for
                                      almost any year from 1960-now and find
                                      something.  Not every year has a 9/11
                                      but there's some real doosies going all
                                      the way back.  You're living in a bubble.
                                      I think I've been trolled.
                                        \_ I even provided a link.  And the
                                           "fruitcakes" are going to have to
                                           work overtime for decades to come
                                           even remotely close to the # of
                                           civilians the USA has killed in
                                           the last 40 years, indirectly
                                           or directly.
                                           \_ Indonesia was never the source
                                              of Muslim terrorists and isn't
                                              part of the middle east and
                                              although it is the single
                                              largest Muslim populated
                                              country it is not a majority
                                              of Muslims.  As far as body
                                              count goes, how about 1 nuke?
                                              1 germ?  Are terrorists morally
                                              justified killing Western civ's
                                              until the body counts are equal?
                                              Madness.  Also, you completely
                                              ignored my comments on UN votes
                                              and the fact that terrorism
                                              pre-dates anything related to
                                              the current or previous several
                                              administrations.  IHBT.
                                                \_ Ok, you've convinced me
                                                   lets torture everyone as
                                                   payback for the nukes and
                                                   bio-weapons they've used
                                                   against us.
                                                   \_ i'm sure that'll happen
                                                      right after we stop
                                                      bombing indonesia.  oh
                                                      wait.  we never did that.
                                                      maybe next time, troll.
               \- well the US draws lines where it wants like "we feel it
                  is ok to torture irregular fighters who are not in
                  uniform, not serving in a national army" etc. if some
                  fellows in cambodia said "we believe it is ok to torture
                  downed pilots engaging in secret bombings to find out
                  when and where the next bombing run is" i am not sure
                  that is appreciably crazier. oh but BUSHCO will claim
                  it is completely difference because they wrote MEMOS.
                  it is completely difference because we wrote MEMOS.
                  \_ uhm, say what?  i'd like to respond but i'm not really
                     clear on exactly what point you're making so i'll leave
                     it until you clarify.
                     \- the source of a lot of resentment against the US
                        is their double standards over many things and their
                        ability to set agendas. e.g. free trade, ip pretection,
                        standards of PoW treatment, what weapons are reasonable
                        etc.
                        \_ All countries are like that.
                           \- all country may wish to be like that but they
                              are not in fact all like that. look up the
                              term "terms of trade". not all countries have
                              sec council vetos. not all countries can
                              dictate IMF policies etc.
                              term "terms of trade" (i mean the vaguer usage).
                              not all countries have sec council vetos. not
                              all countries can dictate IMF policies etc.
                              \_ they are all like that to the extent they
                                 are able.  double standards are what countries
                                 are all about.  that is inevitable when you
                                 acknowledge the natural "us vs. them" nature
                                 of their very existence and reason for being.
                                 \- you have defeated me.
                           \_ Not true. Sweden is not like that, nor is
                              The Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, etc.
                              \_ Those aren't countries.  They're counties.
                                 They also all live under the military umbrella
                                 of larger nations and have homogenous
                                 populations and no foreign policy of note
                                 since they lack a military or any real
                                 political or economic clout.  However, I
                                 believe Belgium had their share of colonies
                                 in the past and had no problem with all that
                                 entails.  Feel free to correct me on that if
                                 I have my history wrong.
                                 \- the congo was actually personally owned
                                    by king leopold, rather than being owned
                                    by the belgian state. he then left it to
                                    belgium in his will. that was a really
                                    nasty flavor of imperialism, even compared
                                    to other european powers in africa.
                                    you may wish to see King Leopolds Ghost
                                    etc. The author's sister teached at UCB.
                                 \_ You're wrong about Sweden not having a
                                    military. For its size its military
                                    spending has been rather high in recent
                                    decades as a policy of armed neutrality.
                                    Of course they must have benefited from
                                    NATO's opposition to Soviet aggression.
                                    Also it no longer has a homogeneous
                                    population as they too have taken on an
                                    immigrant population of Turks etc. I think
                                    that is true of Belgium and .nl also.
                                    They are countries in the traditional sense
                                    of the term; they just are not empires like
                                    the USA and Russia.
                                        \- i think the term you are looking
                                           for is "nation state". sweeden also
                                           has quite a militaristic past.
                                    \_ key phrase: "for its size".  This is a
                                       very small country.  If Ogo Pogo has 2
                                       people and one of them is "the army"
                                       that doesn't mean Ogo Pogo has a real
                                       military even though they're spending
                                       50% of their man power on the military.
                                       You get to the right idea at the end,
                                       though.  Sweden is too small to be of
                                       any real consequence on the world stage
                                       of power politics where things like
                                       torturing people matters.  Sweden is too
                                       small to be in a position to ever have
                                       captured anyone to torture or be really
                                       involved in anything important outside
                                       their immediate region.  This is a game
                                       for world powers and their lackeys.
                                    \_ But President Bush told me Sweden had
                                       no military! I also rely on Dan Quayle
                                       for spelling advice ...
        \_ It's interesting how this article was written:
           "General Hill had sent this list - which included prolonged
           isolation and sleep deprivation, stress positions, physical assault
           and the exploitation of detainees' phobias - to Secretary of Defense
           Donald Rumsfeld, who approved most of the tactics in December 2002."
           Rumsfeld approved /most/ of them.  Tell us, which ones were
           rejected? -emarkp
           \_ [Updated with better links]
              Here's Rummy describing what happened:
              http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/2004/tr20040713-secdef1001.html
              This was the request from GTMO to Rummy, upon which he accepted
              most and rejected a few, and six weeks later, rejected more:
              http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2004/d20040622doc3.pdf
              So which ones did Rumsfeld initially reject?  They're listed at
              the end:
              the end.  Which ones were rejected six weeks later?  Those are
              listed second to last:
              http://csua.org/u/e0g (usatoday.com)
           \_ According to this transcript, probably all of them (I *infer*)
              [that the author listed - sorry, wasn't clear about this],
              but Rummy said it was only for the 20th hijacker:
             http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/2004/tr20040713-secdef1001.html
              Also, "physical assault" probably meant the legal definition of
              assault, not punching or slapping them, which in this case just
              meant poking them among other things.  I like this part:
              I like this part ...
              Rummy:  "The techniques that you described were not used, I'm
              told, on anyone one other than Katani.  We may find out that's
              not correct at some point in the future, but at least my
              information thus far is that that's the case."
              This was the request to Rummy, upon which he accepted/rejected
              some, and six weeks later, rejected more:
              http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2004/d20040622doc3.pdf
              \_ So the reporter was a liar?  He said the list "/included/" x y
                 z and that Rumsfeld approved /most of them/.  So we have a
                 lists supposedly developed from SERE, some of which Rumsfeld
                 didn't approve.  So the entire claim of using methods we
                 learned because they were done to our soldiers which "include
                 abuse rising to the level of torture" is unfounded. -emarkp
                 \_ Huh, what exactly are you saying the reporter is lying
                    about?  Please suggest an easy one first, please be clear,
                    and please be concise.
                    \_ The reporter said "most" were approved.  The poster said
                       "probably all of them". -emarkp
                       \_ "all of them" that the author listed.
                          The last sentence in my post was pretty clear that
                          Rummy rejected/accepted some.
2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Religion] UID:40573 Activity:moderate
11/14   trick to weed out radical muslims in bay area..
        what if someone just rips apart the koran in front
        of a mosque... would that bring out the outrage and rioting
        from radical muslims in the bay area or will this person
        be put in prison for a hate crime?
        \_ If you did the same thing with a bible in front of a
           church, you'll get a lot of protest but I don't think
           you will out anyone radical.
           \- the logging motd is actually a trick to get idiots
              to reveal themselves.
        \_ i am not a radical muslim, but i would consider beating the
           shit out of you for being an idiot.
           \_ If I saw you beating the shit out of OP for ripping up a koran,
              I'd jump in and beat the shit out of you.  So now you know how
              to bring radical atheists who believe in freedom of speech out
              in the open.  Oh yeah, I almost forgot--fuck you!
              \_ I'd help OP beat the shit out of you, just for shits and
                 giggles and because it's the cool thing to do.  -John
                 \_ I can take any three of you with my knife, which is
                    *always* at the ready.  I'm suprised you would side with the
                    jesus-nazis.
                 \_ I think you have become confused.  In the hypothetical
                    brawl, I'm on the same side as OP.  I'll side with pretty
                    much anyone who pisses off a Christian or a Muslim.  I'm
                    guessing mr. "beat the shit out of" is a Christian.
                    \_ Oh, I lost track of who was for or against what a few
                       posts ago.  I just think it would be fun to get in a
                       fight with a bunch of morons beating on each other
                       while yelling religious profanities.  -John
           \_ sure you're not....
           \_ and you would go to prison.
              \_ Not necessarily, actually.  If you provoke someone into
                 fighting you, the cops may actually opt to give the other
                 a fight, the cops may actually opt to give the other
                 guy a lesser charge or perhaps charge you both with something.
                 \_ Don't be an idiot.  I can destroy a Koran if I like as an
                    expression of freedom of speech. -mrauser
                    expression of freedom of speech. -mrauser, noted
                    constitutional scholar.
                    \_ I'm not being an idiot -- you're not understanding my
                       point (which is perhaps my fault for being vague).  Just
                       because you didn't throw the first punch doesn't mean
                       can't and won't be held accountable for your
                       you can't and won't be held accountable for your
                       participation in a physical altercation.  I'll readily
                       acknowledge that this is OT, though - since the OP has
                       has made it clear that his intention is to 'rip up a
                       koran and magically summon muslim terrorist 20-ft
                       radius' or something.  Sorry for the confusion.
                       \- you may be interested in Beauharnais v. Illinois
                          and more directly relevantly Chaplinsky v. NH.
                          i dont remember the exact details of Terminilello
                          but that may be on point too. ok tnx. --psb
                          \_ Huh -- interesting reading.  There is some mention
                             of 'fighting words' in the Chaplinsky case, which
                             is what I was attempting to point out in my above
                             post.  If I have the time, I'd dig up the exact
                             California Penal codes refer deal with this case.
                             Thanks for posting.
                             post.  If I have the time, I'll dig up the exact
                             California Penal codes which deal with this
                             situation.  Thanks for posting.
                             \- just as obscenity or symbolic speech or
                                advocacy of illegal action or libel are
                                subtopics of 1st amd jurisprudence/free
                                speech doctrine, "fighting words" is too,
                                although not as important an area.
                                these are sort of old cases however, so it
                                is unclear what their current status is.
                                there are lots of lower ct decisions about
                                yelling "fuck you" or "unhand me you nazi"
                                or "you have a fruitcake relig" type things
                                but much of this is probably not settled by
                                the USSC.
                          \_ 1. Cal. Penal Code may make this a crime, but
                                the 1st is incorporated so state law cannot
                                abridge the protection provided by the 1st.
                                (See Duncan, 391 US 145).
                                \- i thought CA const had higher protections
                                   than 1st+incorp. i believe that came up
                                   in pruneyard v. robins. although the
                                   particular areas of greater protection
                                   may not be relevant to this context.
                                   http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_1
                             2. The 9th Cir's Barnett (667 F2d 835) theory
                                (also 4th Cir in Rice, 128 F3d 233) is prob.
                                not applicable here IF the law directly
                                regulates speech.
                             3. Chaplinsky is probably no longer good law
                                b/c of Brandenburg (395 US 444), Hess (414
                                US 105) and Claiborne Hardware (458 US 886).
                                Under the current std to show that the
                                speech is not protected, it must be shown
                                that the speech was intended (subjectively)
                                to produce "imminent lawless conduct" and
                                did or was likely to produce such conduct.
                                Seeing as the USSC has NEVER found such
                                conduct (Hess made a "threat" in front of
                                cops, and the ppl in Claiborne Hardware
                                said they would beat up anyone who crossed
                                the picket line), ripping up a koran or
                                a bible infront of a mosque/church wouldn't
                                qualify.
                                \_ I agree with your interpretation of speech
                                   here but respectfully submit that the action
                                   proposed is much more significant. That
                                   said, perhaps still not enough to warrant
                                   revocation of protection. Would love to
                                   see a case where a flag burner was assaulted
                                   for more relevant comparison.
                             4. I am not sure who the bigger idiot is here;
                                the person who wants to rip up the koran,
                                or the person who thinks that the free
                                exercise of one's 1st amend. right must be
                                deterred w/ physical violence. If your ideas
                                are superior to this fool's ideas, they why
                                don't you compete w/ him and win in the
                                marketplace of ideas?
                                [ Perhaps I am the biggest idiot of all for
                                  even responding ]
              \_ It sounds like you have no clue what a 'radical muslim' is.
                 I don't think picking a fight with a guy proves anything
                 other than how stupid and misguided you are.  sorry.
                 \_ "... but I would consider beating the shit out of
                    you..." would result in you going to prison.  What part
                    of that don't you understand?
                    \_ The part where that proves he's a 'radical muslim'.
        \_ It sounds antagonistic for no particular reason.  If the best way
           we have to find radical muslim terrorists is making an art show out
           of ripping up a Koran, we're doomed and should just start praying
           east 3 times a day and save the hassle.
           \_ Who's your favorite prayer carpet vendor?
              \_ Omar's Carpetorium down on 8th street.  He's working on his
                 website but you can just go down there.
        \_ Wouldn't it be easier just to setup a suicide bomber recruitment
           center and arrest those who are willing to strap bombs to
           themselves?
           \_ Arrest them?  There's a simpler solution.
              \_ One might even say a 'Final Solution'?
2005/11/14-15 [Health/Men, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:40574 Activity:nil
11/14   Terrorists arrested in Austrailia were planning attack on a
        nuclear reactor:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051114/ts_nm/security_australia_plot_dc
        And some of their supporters beat up a camera crew outside the
c       courthouse:
        http://csua.org/u/e0c
        \_ I suggest we torture them immediately.  Better to break their wills
           than collect useful intelligence.
           \_ I suggest we torture the OP for the abuse of an apostrophe. [OP
              has fixed "we're" now, so my torture recommendation is rescinded]
              \_ i think the remaining misspelling deserves some non-inhumane
                 treatment
2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40575 Activity:nil
11/14   Kazakhstan vs. Borat
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051114/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_kazakhstan_borat
        \_ The guy's whole act is making fun of Kazakhstan?  Where is he
           from?
           \_ Making fun of Kazakstan is incidental.  The main act is to
              pretend to be a reporter from Kazakhastan and ask wierd
              wierd interview questions and try to get a funny response out of
              the subject.
              interview questions and try to get a funny response out of the
              subject.
              \- "We are from France"
                 \_ heh
                 \_ Hiiiii  Fiiiive!!!
           \_ Borat is Ali G aka Sacha Baron Cohen, who is actually a
              Cambridge grad and highly eloquent in real life.  -John
2005/11/14-15 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:40576 Activity:moderate
11/14   Ugg. It took me all of 20 seconds to figure out NIS on linux.
        I can't even figure out how to lock a yppasswd on solaris.  Help.
        \_ Hint: Your issue is not with NIS
           \_ Uhh, what is it with?
              \_ Solaris' passwd mechanism doesn't provide a locking mechanism
                 (unless it's a recent addition i don't know about)
                 \_ from shadow(4):
                    The lock string is defined as  *LK*  in  the
                    first four characters of the password field.
                    --Jon
                    \_ further note, you can use NP as the passwd string
                       which will allow uid to run cron jobs/etc --Jon
           \_ Which you should not be using anyway...
              \_ Well, I don't fault people using NIS in a secured corporate
                 environment.
                 \_ Hard on the outside, soft and chewy in the center.
                     \_ I've worked on a lot of networks and they have all
                        been like this (well, hardER on the outside anyway,
                        some were pretty soft all around).
                        \_ Probably, but with NIS you may as well not even
                           bother with security.
                           \_ NIS really isn't that bad in terms of
                              security if you have strong passwords
                              enforced.  NFS, that's another thing.  -tom
                              \- you need more than strong passwds. you need
                                 tight securenets, you need to not let
                                 people log into servers, you probably need
                                 the servers hardcoded to the clients etc.
                                 in many environments sniffed credientials
                                 are now a bigger problems than cracked
                                 passwds. once somebody gets unauthorized
                                 access to an unpriv nis account, it is
                                 highly likely they will be able to find
                                 some local exploit. and without the other
                                 issues raised above you are potentially vuln
                                 if a machine not even in your domain but
                                 just within your bcast domain is rooted.
                                 that being said, i think nis has its place
                                 but that is beyond the scope here.
              \_ I didn't build the system, I was just hired to make
                 a few changes, not rebuild it. -top
            \_ One good and fairly secure alternative to NIS, if you don't
               want to go with with LDAP, is to setup cfengine to rebuild
               /etc/{passwd,shadow} files on all machines. The downside of
               doing this is that if someone roots a client box they can
               still see your local /etc/shadow file. This sort of thing
               could be prevented with  LDAP.
2005/11/14 [Reference/RealEstate, Reference/Tax] UID:40577 Activity:nil
11/14   My Alameda County property tax statement reads "Secured Property Tax
        Statement.  What's the difference between Secured and Unsecured?
        Thanks.
2005/11/14 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40578 Activity:high
11/14   Unix newbie question:
        How do you read / rename a file with name "-l"  (dash-el)?
        \_ I've always loved this question.  "./-l"
        \_ Sounds like CS9E homework.
           \_ Aw, crap.  you're probably right.
        \_ Here's a better one: list all of the files present in a directory
           (which may have subdirectories) which contain the character "-"
           \_ Even better.  How do I delete that file named "-rf"
        \_ 'find' with the right options is the answer to everything.  you
           just need to find the right options.  :-)
        \_ man 3 getopt
        \_ Uh.  man rm.  man mv.  man cp.  You shouldn't need to use
           find or getopt or anything.
        \_ cd [dir w/ file] && mv `pwd`/-l [new name]
           \_ why use pwd instead of "."?
2005/11/14-15 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:40579 Activity:nil
11/14   The hunt for the worst sound in the world.  http://www.sound101.org
2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40580 Activity:nil
11/14   Gallup poll shows 60% disapprove of Dubya's handling of job as
        president.  For the first time, more than half of Americans do not
        think the description "honest and trustworthy" applies to Dubya:
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/14/bush.poll/index.html
        \_ 71% disapprove of the way Dubya is handling controlling federal
           spending!
           http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/2005-11-14-poll.htm
           \_ The other 29% are "fiscal conservatives"?
2005/11/14 [Uncategorized] UID:40581 Activity:kinda low 76%like:40586
11/14   How much of your favorite caffinated beverage would it take to
        kill you?
        http://www.energyfiend.com/death-by-caffeine
        Me:  282.99 cans of Dr Pepper
        \_ I'm pretty sure I could kill a man with a single can of Dr. Pepper.
        \_ You weigh 170 pounds?
        \_Me: 436 cans of DietPepsi, or rougly 40 gallons.  I thikn I would
              drown in them before the caffeine would be a problem.
2005/11/14 [Uncategorized] UID:40582 Activity:nil
11/14   Is mail messed up or is it just my deodorant?
2005/11/14 [Uncategorized] UID:40583 Activity:nil
11/14   http://csua.berkeley.edu/~tom/theplay_long.ram
2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40584 Activity:moderate
11/14   http://tinyurl.com/b4rql
        The woman suicide bomber did it becuase 3 of her brothers died in
        Iraq fighting Americans.  Hahaha!  We killed all their
        manfolks already, and now only women are left.  We are
        winning!
        \_ Well, that's like cutting off her nose to spite her face.
           She should have bred children.
2005/11/14-15 [Health/Disease/General] UID:40585 Activity:moderate
11/14   Chilly external temperatures CAN lead to a cold.  (duh)
        http://csua.org/u/e0h (forbes.com)
        "Researchers at Cardiff University in Wales asked 180 volunteers to ...
        soak their feet in ice-cold water or place them in an empty bowl for 20
        minutes. Of the people who soaked their feet in cold water, 29 percent
        developed cold symptoms over the next four to five days, compared to 9
        percent of those in the control group, the investigators report in the
        Nov. 14 issue of the journal Family Practice."
        \_ I say "placebo effect".
           \_ The next experiment will have the control group soaking their
              feet in warm water.  Ph.D. here I comE1!!!!1
                \_ They should have told the cold water crowd that the water
                   had been treated with a new drug that protects against the
                   cold.
                   \_ Indeed.
                      \_ These people were probably pulling ice cubes out
                         of their freezer.  They had to do it for 20 minutes
                         a day for 1 week.
                      \_ Yeah, actually I'm reading that they just did the
                         20-minute soak for one day, and it was all students.
                         Not reliable.  Oops!  I'm with placebo guy, unless
                         they actually did virus count tests on all 180 ppl,
                         which I doubt. -op
        \_ yeah, "duh". cold symptoms != having a cold. duh.
           \_ latent infection -> full-blown cold symptoms -> real cold
2005/11/14-15 [Recreation/Food, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:40586 Activity:low 76%like:40581
11/14   How much of your favorite caffinated beverage would it take to
        kill you?
        http://www.energyfiend.com/death-by-caffeine
        \_ Interesting. I guess coffee has more caffeine than espresso drinks.
           See Starbucks Grande Coffee vs. Grande Mocha's, Per unit volume,
           obviously espresso wins, but per drink, coffee wins.
                                        \- "it's the moles that get you"
        \_ OMFG, Redline Caffeine drink: http://csua.org/u/e0j (Same site)
        \_ http://caffeineweb.com/NASAStudy.htm
2005/11/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40588 Activity:kinda low
11/14   Time for silly motd confessional:  I have been flirting with Kalamata
        olives.
        First, I hated olives.  Later I would enjoy a very small bit of
        tapenade on toast.  Then I decided I would slowly nibble Kalamata
        olives, but only 1 or 2 in a session.  Now I devour them.  OK, 'night.
        \_ Same thing happened to me, but without the tapenade.
           It's not hard to hate "California" olives (the black ones you get
           on pizzas and everywhere).  They're horrid.
        \_ Where can I get some?  Are they cheap?  I've always hated
           olives, I'm interested in the idea that some don't taste
           like salted crap.
           \_ Kalamata are ripe olives cured in red wine vinegar.  The ones
              with the pits in them have better texture.  I've had nice ones
              from the olive bins at Cheeseboard and Berkeley bowl.
           \_ I like the pitted Kalamatas in olive oil in a bottle they have at
              Trader Joe's. They're pretty cheap (~ $3, IIRC).  The ones in
              water are slightly more expensive and slightly "nicer" (fewer
              ripped ones, etc), but the olive oil ones have a better mouth
              feel.  Mmm.  Fat.  --dbushong
              \_ Kalamatas are often scored to allow the marinade to penetrate
                 better.
2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:40589 Activity:moderate
11/14   http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051113/ap_on_re_us/asians_bullied
        Asian harassment up in other parts of the country. Time to move
        back to my motherland, the Bay Area, the land created by our
        people, for our people.                                 -Asian
        \_ Funny, I experienced exactly the reverse in SF, until I got in
           a fight with the Korean bullies at my school--then they were nice
           to me.  Maybe AZN bullies are just more pragmatic.  -John
           \_ pragmatic you mean this Korean knows the chance of him
              relocated to ghetto or something?
              \_ Is "relocated to ghetto" some sort of "in" slang for "getting
                 your ass kicked"?  If so, yes.  -John
        \_ Last week there was a news article about the same problem in Skyline
           High in Oakland.
        \_ Here's a way to solve the problem: Let the Asian community randomly
           select a certain percentage of kids among themselves.  Force them to
           score low in tests and exams (by otherwise starving them, for
           example.)  Make them go loitering instead of learning.  Drop them
           example.)  Make them to go loitering instead of learning.  Drop them
           off at parties and lock them out of public libraries.  Buy them
           video games instead of violins.  Teach them street fighting instead
           of studying.  This will bring down the average achievement of the
           community and will remove it from the bad guys' radar.
           example.)  Make them to go loitering instead of learning.  Spend
           time at parties instead of public libraries.  Buy them video games
           instead of violins.  Teach them street fighting instead of studying.
           That will bring down the average achievement of the community and
           will remove it from the bad guys' radar.

           Another way to solve the problem is for the other communities to do
           the opposite.
           \_ Nah, too complicated.  Let's just create 2 sets of standards:
              1 for Asians and 1 for non-Asians.  Then you can just adjust
              the 2 standards to get whatever result you want.
              the 2 standards to get whatever result you want.  You probably
              want to tweak the definition of "Asian" so that some populations
              with roots in Asia are included and some are not.
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:14 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>