Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2005/11/10-11 [Transportation/Car] UID:40523 Activity:kinda low
11/9    Over the calendar year, are there  better and worse times
        to buy a new car?  Or does that not really apply if you know
        how to price and negotiate?  Does the brand make a difference?
        Say Audi A4 or 3-series BMW or the cheaper option with a Honda?
        \_ The best time is when the new model year comes out. You can
           save a lot of money on the old year. Even better is when they
           change body styles in a model year, if you like the old style.
           \_ Agreed.  I bought my '96 Jeep Cherokee in 8/96, after Chrysler
              announced the first body style change in 13 years for the '97
              model.  Got a good deal.
              \_ and now they've replaced the cherokee entirely with the
                 Liberty.  ICK.
        \_ also if you cant wait try to buy at the end of the day and
           towards the end of the month, when they are more desperate
           to boost their numbers.  but yeah, the best time is when
           the new models come out.
        \_ if you live in north, shop the car around Chrismas.  People
           hates standing in the cold lots shopping for car...  I got this
           from an very experienced car sales man :p
2005/11/10-11 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:40524 Activity:nil
11/9    Regarding multi-zone DVD's.  Anyone know how to make your Apple G5
        DVD-player multizone?  It offers up to 5 switches before it's stuck
        in one zone forever.  I have both DVD's legitimately bought overseas
        and in the US.
        \_ install VLC.  If I remember it right, VLC has DeCSS built-in.
           however, you *WILL* become a criminal who violates Intellectual
           Properties right.   Not all DVD works, though.
        \_ Depending on the model you may be able to flash it w/ a region
           free firmware. Take a look at the following:
           http://lasvegas.rpc1.org
           http://tdb.rpc1.org
2005/11/10-11 [Recreation/Dating] UID:40525 Activity:kinda low
11/9    Look closely at Dans pictures and you can see that her young body
        cant keep up with her breast growth. Cute little stretch marks can
        be seen on the tops of her boobs. She might have many more years
        of cup size enlargement. Dan doesnt seem shy about hiding her
        cleavage thats for sure. Shame the pictures are not the highest
        resolution. All the preview pictures here on bustywebshots are saved
        at their actual size.
        http://bustywebshots.blogspot.com/2005/11/dan.html
                \_ At first I thought this link was about danh.  I looked anyways.  -ax
                   \_ I was thinking dans, as in Dan Silverstein
        \_ At first I thought this link was about danh.  I looked anyways.  -ax
           \_ I was thinking dans, as in Dan Silverstein
              \_ Me2.
                 \_ Mostly I chalk it up to the ongoing death of grammar and
                    people's inability to properly use apostrophes.  You'll
                    have to forgive me as my grandfather recently passed on
                    and I've been too busy mourning to muck about with the
                    motd. -dans
        \_ Are those wounds from implant surgery?
2005/11/10 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40526 Activity:nil
11/9    Has anyone read this?
        http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1566636434/002-6911668-5155237?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance
2005/11/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40527 Activity:kinda low
11/9    I find this informative:
        La Belle France: A country of equality and exclusion - Yahoo! News
        http://csua.org/u/dz4
        What does "La Belle France" mean?  Thx.
        \_ I assume "France the Beautiful"
        \_ I assume "France smells."
        \_ % dict belle
           A young lady of superior beauty and attractions...
           "La Belle France" == the hot French chick.
        \_ It means 'The Beautiful France'.
2005/11/10-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40528 Activity:nil
11/10   What freepers think of the riots in France (scroll down for pics)
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1519435/posts
        \_ Frankly I doubt whether most freepers know where France is.  -John
2005/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40529 Activity:nil
11/9    LA school district provided buses to send students to political
        protests.  http://csua.org/u/dz5
        \_ It's okay to sponsor political activities with taxpayers' money, as
           long as it's Democratic activities.
           long as it's Democratic political activities.
2005/11/10-11 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40530 Activity:nil
11/9    Has anyone read this?
        [Long url deleted. You must shorten +80col URLs]
        \_ You're a prick.  You could just make a macro to replace a url with
           its shortcutted version rather than replacing it with that useless
           line.
           \_ Maybe, but you should do your part too.
        \_ Shortened link: http://csua.org/u/dz9
2005/11/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40531 Activity:insanely high
11/10   Pat Buchanan, who was always against the invasion of Iraq, rubs it in
        "Thus, in March, 2003, Bush, in perhaps the greatest strategic blunder
        in U.S. history, invaded an Arab nation that had not attacked us, did
        not want war with us, and did not threaten us--to strip it of weapons
        we now know it did not have. Result: Shia and Kurds have been liberated
        from Saddam, but Iran has a new ally in southern Iraq, Osama has a new
        base camp in the Sunni Triangle, the Arab and Islamic world have been
        radicalized against the United States, and copy-cat killers of Al Qaida
        have been targeting our remaining allies in Europe and the Middle East:
        Spain, Britain, Egypt and Jordan. And, lest we forget, 2055 Americans
        are dead and Walter Reed is filling up."
        http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=10210
        \_ Uhm, Pat was never on the Dubya bandwagon.  Pat has always been an
           isolationist.  He is opposed to US membership in the UN and most
           other forms of non-trade involvement with the rest of the world.
           \_ uh, yerright about his being anti-neocon the whole time
              http://www.amconmag.com/2004_11_08/cover.html
              \_ Yeah, weird how some people on the motd actually know wtf
                 they're talking about and are beyond the black/white "h8t
                 u awl!!1" political 'philosophy' espoused by too many here.
                 Pat has been consistent in his isolationist views going back
                 to GWB's pre-politics days.  Too many people around here find
                 some random tidbit and post it thinking they're making some
                 big point or there's some giant earth shaking change going on,
                 but who have essentially zero real knowledge of history.
                 It's mostly the silly "gotcha!" and "we're winning!" stuff
                 which is no better than dailykos or freepers.
                 \_ shrug, it was random enough to be first on http://drudgereport.com
                    \_ exactly.  I read drudge for the "man bitten by >insert
                       name of dangerous animal<" links.  He also posts some
                       oddball stuff you won't find else where which is fun.
                       The rest is pre-posts of NYT editorials, political
                       sniping, various forms of rabble rousing to keep his
                       hit rates up, and the inevitable cross links to other
                       sites in what looks like an ad/link swap deal, mostly
                       recently with breitbart(sp?) news.  I don't read drudge
                       for in depth and meaningful political commentary.
                    I honestly was completely oblivious to the notion that
                    there was a real conservative group (other than the
                    Scowcroft, etc. old-hands assoc w/ Bush Sr.) that opposed
                    the invasion pre-invasion -op
                    \_ That's why they're called "neo" cons.  There are still
                       plenty (I'd guess a majority) of conservatives who are
                       in favor of not invading other countries, lower taxes,
                       less spending, smaller government, and all the other
                       traditional conservative agenda items.  Thus it makes
                       me laugh and sad at the same time to see the various
                       motd personalities posting as if the freepers are the
                       sole representatives of the conservative movement.
                       Laughter from how ignorant a belief that is and sadness
                       at how closely otherwise intelligent people hold such
                       a belief.
                       \_ Okay, I'll update the link to reflect that.
2005/11/10-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40532 Activity:nil
11/10   http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=809
        "The polling also finds that in most majority-Muslim countries
        surveyed, support for suicide bombings and other acts of violence in
        defense of Islam has declined significantly. ...
        A notable exception to this trend is Jordan, where a majority (57%) now
        says suicide bombings and other violent actions are justifiable in
        defense of Islam." (July 14, 2005)
        http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=206 (March 16, 2004)
        [note that support for suicide bombings against coalition forces in
        Iraq dropped from 70 to 49% in Jordan from the '04 to '05 reports]
2005/11/10-12 [Computer/SW/Apps] UID:40533 Activity:moderate
11/10   Which chat program is the most popular these days?  AOL IM?  Yahoo
        Messenger?  ICQ?  I'm trying to sign up for one.  Thx.
        \_ AIM in USA, MSN for rest of the world.  Don't bother with ICQ,
           as the protocol is merging with AIM anyway.  If I were you, I
           get account in both AIM and MSN and use GAIM/Adium/Trillian as
           client.
        \_ Most people use AIM but there's always enough people who don't
           that you need a multi-protocol client like GAIM, Adium, or Trillian.
        \_ Most geeks use something like GAIM or Trillian b/c then it doesn't
           matter what other people are using, you can use them all.  If you're
           trying to pick a main account to use, it really doesn't matter much.
        \_ Most popular according to what standard?
           \_ The most chatting activity, I guess.  -- OP
              \_ There are no objective studies that can answer your question.
                 Perhaps you can try an answerable question?
        \_ AIM seems to be the most popular, at least in the US, but a coworker
           of mine claims that it's not really used outside of the US, so he
           uses MSN to chat to his friends in Sri Lanka and Britain. An intern
           who I used to work at Microsoft says that MSN was a joke and he
           didn't know anyone at school (MIT) who used it, and the only place
           he's ever seen it used was at MS. Like pp says, it's hard or
           impossible to answer the question.
           \_ Well, when someone comes from a school where people think it's
              normal to write an English paper in LaTeX using vi, I find it
              difficult to take their ideas about what constitutes "normal"
              seriously.
              \_ English paper in LaTeX using vi?  That's silly.  I used troff
                 and vi.  --dbushong
                     \- i dont think people at mit use vi much. they use emacs.
                        they alsi used to use Scribe, not LaTeX. dunno about
                        they also used to use Scribe, not LaTeX. dunno about
                        now. maybe they have Word Creep too.
                 \_ You're silly. My English teachers were happy to accept
                    my punch cards.
                    \_ Ha ha!  Son, in my day, they accepted the fully
                       wired bread board -- and we had to improvise our
                       wire with recycled vaccum tube radio parts.
                    \_ My English teacher was happy to accept my three-hole-
                       punch on her.
                       punching on her.
                       \_ air tight seal?
                          \_ Tight, and sealed with lubes.
2005/11/10-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40534 Activity:kinda low
11/10   Faux News shows 36% approve of Dubya's job performance
        http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob1.htm
        \_ Didn't we already go over this whole thing?  What happens if his
           ratings drop to 0?  Nothing.  What does it mean?  Nothing.  I guess
           if it amuses you, whatever, it's harmless but you seem really hung
           up on it.
           \_ yes, we did, but it appears that you didn't actually learn
              anything.
              \_ I learned too many people are obsessed with the wrong things
                 and think random numbers on a lame duck president matter.
                 Politics is local.  GWB didn't brain wash half the country.
                 When he's out of office and forgotten those 51% will still
                 vote the same way.
           \_ I'm hoping the 20% of people who apparently changed their minds
              since Bush's second election won't vote in another nation-
              wrecking idiot.  --PeterM
              \_ Fat chance. their attention spans are too short to remember
                 any of this stuff in 2008. Especially if it's vs. Hillary.
                 \_ Yup in a few years Katrina, Plamegate, etc., will be
                    drowned out by the usual God, Guns & Gays.
                    \_ There's no "there" there.
           \_ If the president has a low approval rating it becomes a lot
              harder for him to convince modertate congresscritters to take
              his side.  That matters a lot.
              \_ It also makes it potentially harder to keep a decisive
                 edge in the interim elections.
                 \_ Politics is local.  If politics were national, then the
                    whole country would be (R) since we've had more (R) years
                    at the top level in the last 30 years than (D).
2005/11/10-12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:40535 Activity:moderate
11/10   Top state Dem in FL proposes mandatory Spanish in K-2 in FL schools:
        http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=4859
        My favorite quote: "I've heard it the other way that English was the
        language here and that's the way it's going to be. On the other hand,
        there **is** [emphasis mine] a lot of Spanish people here. No, it
        doesn't surprise me. I just don't like it," said parent Ed Barrick.
        Looks like they need more English teaching first.
        \_ Spanish or Latino?
        \_ Yeah, let them all learn Spanish, so that those of us who speak
           Asian languages will be in higher demand and can ask for higher
           salaries.
           \_ When everyone in the US speaks Spanish you will be at a
              *disadvantage* when you cannot.
              \_ Yeah, if you want to work at Walmart.
                 \_ You will when Walmart is the only industry left in the
                    US! (Which will be about the same time when everyone
                    in the US speaks Spanish)
                    \_ Uh....right, but that brings us two levels back up to
                       the thread to where us Mandarin speakers will still
                       be employed.  Of course, I don't seriously believe any
                       of that anyway.  Spanish will never replace English
                       anywhere that matters to tech people.
                       \_ Wow, I don't think I could've telegraphed that
                          sarcasm anymore clearly. -pp
                       \_ How can you possibly perceive Mandarin to ever
                          be more important to US business than Spanish?
                          Even with all the trade with China, Spanish is
                          the more useful language in the USA.
                          \_ Uhhh... He never said that it would be more
                             important, just that rarity confers value.
                             \_ Yes, I am sure your tech company is
                                willing to pay so much more for you if you
                                can speak some rarely used language like
                                Inukitut. Rarity doesn't confer value as much
                                as demand does in this instance.
                                \_ You are correct.  That's supply and
                                   demand.  Sorry I didn't state it more
                                   clearly.
                             \_ There are, what, a billion people who speak
                                Mandarin natively?  In the end, jobs that will
                                stay in the US will require good English
                                communication skills.  It's much easier to
                                find someone who speaks Mandarin well than
                                someone who speaks English well.
                                \_ I had thought this conversation was a
                                   dumb as it could possibly get, but you
                                   have brought it to a new low.
                                   Congratulations.
                                   \_ I'm guessing you don't work in the
                                      industry.  This article reflects
                                      reality quite well.
                                      http://www.slate.com/id/2126685
                                      When we were hiring a FAE in China, we
                                      hired one that could speak English best.
                                      The marketing guy the FAE reported to
                                      (who owned the Huawei account) is a
                                      mid-30's white guy who couldn't speak a
                                      word of Chinese.  When we hired him,
                                      we were looking for a guy who could help
                                      us formulate and communicate a strategy;
                                      Chinese was not even on the list of
                                      requirements.
                                      \_ you gotta becareful with your
                                         decision.  FAE requires to talk to
                                         engineers, and engineers in general
                                         don't have good foreign language
                                         skill.  Be able to speak Chinese
                                         is much more advantageous.  But such
                                         advantage won't be seen by those who
                                         don't interact with customers at
                                         their native language level.
                                            -system engineer work in ASIA
                                         \_ Right.  Whhat I meant was we chose
                                            the Mandarin speaker who could speak
                                            English best.  For us, Chinese is a
                                            requirement for firstline in-
                                            country types, but it is at best
                                            a low nice-to-have for higher-
                                            level jobs.
                                      \_ And so you continue to make an
                                         irrelevent point.
                                         \_ No, the point is that Chinese gets
                                            you jobs in China.  English gets
                                            you jobs here.  This will be even
                                            more true in the future, if you
                                            assume that globalization is
                                            efficient.
                                            \_ And speaking both well will
                                               get you jobs in both.
                                               Which was the orginal point.
                                               \_ And my point is that it's
                                                  much more important to speak
                                                  English well, if one is
                                                  interested in employment
                                                  in the States.  I've
                                                  observed that the vast
                                                  majority of the Mandarine
                                                  types here don't speak English
                                                  well at all.  There is a vast
                                                  difference between being able
                                                  to communicate in a language
                                                  and being able to communicate
                                                  well in a language.
                                                 _\
                        I don't know about tech, but I know many BA/
                        MBA friends getting sourcing/purchasing type jobs
                        where Chinese either helps or is essential.  One
                        just got sent to Beijing with a really nice
                        package including a US$5000 per month housing
                        allowance to setup operations there (John Deere).
                        My gf also does sourcing for her
                        small US employer, and she says she has already
                        saved her employer $500k per year after working
                        for a few months on switching to China sources.
                        As for tech, I am not sure if it would always
                        be doing management here, and tech stuff there.
                        I think China is only just getting started.
                        Knowing English and Mandarin well is a good
                        advantage.  The fact that most Chinese here and
                        in China don't speak English well just means it's
                        even more valuable that one speaks English well,
                        AND knows Chinese.
                        \_ My guess is that marketing and mid+ management will
                           stay here, first level management and individual
                           contributors will ultimately all get outsourced.
                           Definition will stay in the States, design and
                           manufacturing abroad.  All of which says you'd
                           better be able to communicate well if you want to
                           prosper here.  Chinese may get you a job, but
                           prosper job here.  Chinese may get you a job, but
                           English gets you ahead.  In the end, knowing
                           Chinese may be no more useful than knowing C for
                           someone in tech.  How many mid or senior management
                           types actually know C or think it matters?  How
                           types actually know C or thinks it matters?  How
                           many marketing types?  Now consider what that means
                           when coding and first-level management is outsourced
                           to China.
                           \_ Marketing depends on where the market is.
                              For instance, cell phones, the China market
                              is huge, and I doubt you will know how
                              to market there if you don't know Chinese.
                              As for management, as China develops from
                              a manufacturing base to a more mature
                              economy with big demands for imports, the
                              number of good jobs requiring Chinese will
                              continue to grow.  Sure, if you are the
                              stay home type and want to remain in the US,
                              and get ahead, you need to be good at English.
                              Nobody is arguing about that.  But even
                              if staying here, knowing Chinese is an
                              added advantage, that will likely become
                              more and more valuable going forward, again,
                              in terms of the number of jobs where Chinese
                              helps or is a requirement.
                              \_ The problem is we are finite beings.  There is
                                 a limit to how much we can know and how much
                                 time we have to learn.  Knowing Chinese is
                                 valuable.  So is knowing Spanish, or French,
                                 or Swahili.  Some things are more useful than
                                 others.  Given you cannot learn everything,
                                 you have to decide what to learn.  So learn
                                 Chinese?  Sure.  So long as you make sure
                                 you know English well first.  Now, how many
                                 of you chest-thumping Chinese speakers speak
                                 English well?
                                 \_ Learning a new language from scratch is
                                    tough.  On the other hand if you
                                    already speak English and Chinese well,
                                    you should gloat over your superior
                                    you should gloat about your superior
                                    language abilities, and rub it in on
                                    people who seem bitter about it.
        \_ Uh, you do realize there are regional differences in
           vocabulary and grammar in English (as well as most languages).
        \_ I'm a bit disappointed that nobody here seems to have even thought
           of the positive implications of teaching the kids _any_ foreign
           language (Spanish, Chinese, who gives) just to get them used to the
           idea of learning something unfamiliar and getting them to think
           a bit more internationally.  The Chinese and Indian kids coming to
           the US speaking English, and the European students who've been
           learning English/German/French/Spanish/whatever, some of them from
           grade 1 (however badly they speak it is another issue) should tell
           you something.  -John
           \_ In general Americans, esp. the isolated, non-coastal Red states
              don't really give a damn about thinking internationally. At any
              rate they (freepers) should learn their own language first.
           \_ International thinking is fine and all but frankly most of them
              will never set foot outside the country or ever have a need for
              a second language.  I'd prefer they learn to read/write English.
              Hey, maybe knowing some basic math without a calculator would
              be nice, too.
        \_ I have a feeling that USA is going to become to what happened to
           Roman Empire in the good old days, where the official language
           (Latin) is different than what is more commonly spoken through
           out the empire (Ancient Greek).
           \_ The US doesn't have an official language.
           \- Ave. some comments: 1. the greek of homer != the greek of
              polybius or the biblical writers. the Koine greek was sort of a
              lower vernacular or sloppy greek. i believe "ancient greek"
              usually refers to an older version of the language 2. latin and
              the koine were the second languages for a lot of people distant
              from rome or athens. 3. the koine while somewhat common to the
              east, a legacy of alexander...and indeed would later be adopted
              by the eastern roman empire,was not common in the western
              empire, where latin would be used more than the koine (and of
              course the church of rome in the west would go with their own
              brand of latin). FYI, probably the top scholar on the
              flavor of latin). FYI, probably the top scholar on the
              relationship between Rome and the Hellenic/Hellenistic world(s?)
              is E GRUEN/UCB History. you may wish to see say Chapeter V
              http://csua.org/u/dzh and Chapter 2,7 in http://csua.org/u/dzi
              Graecia capta ferum victorem capit. --Horace. ok vale.
2005/11/10-12 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40536 Activity:nil
11/10   Pat Buchanan, who was always against the invasion of Iraq, rubs it in
        http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=10210
        \_ This is funny, because "Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's initiatives"
           were opposed by Partisans of both sides.
        \_ Uhm, Pat was never on the Dubya bandwagon.  Pat has always been an
           isolationist.  He is opposed to US membership in the UN and most
           other forms of non-trade involvement with the rest of the world.
           \_ uh, yerright about his being anti-neocon the whole time
              http://www.amconmag.com/2004_11_08/cover.html
              \_ Yeah, weird how some people on the motd actually know wtf
                 they're talking about and are beyond the black/white "h8t
                 u awl!!1" political 'philosophy' espoused by too many here.
                 Pat has been consistent in his isolationist views going back
                 to GWB's pre-politics days.  Too many people around here find
                 some random tidbit and post it thinking they're making some
                 big point or there's some giant earth shaking change going on,
                 but who have essentially zero real knowledge of history.
                 It's mostly the silly "gotcha!" and "we're winning!" stuff
                 which is no better than dailykos or freepers.
                 \_ shrug, it was random enough to be first on http://drudgereport.com
                    \_ exactly.  I read drudge for the "man bitten by >insert
                       name of dangerous animal<" links.  He also posts some
                       oddball stuff you won't find else where which is fun.
                       The rest is pre-posts of NYT editorials, political
                       sniping, various forms of rabble rousing to keep his
                       hit rates up, and the inevitable cross links to other
                       sites in what looks like an ad/link swap deal, mostly
                       recently with breitbart(sp?) news.  I don't read drudge
                       for in depth and meaningful political commentary.
                    I honestly was completely oblivious to the notion that
                    there was a real conservative group (other than the
                    Scowcroft, etc. old-hands assoc w/ Bush Sr.) that opposed
                    the invasion pre-invasion -op
                    \_ That's why they're called "neo" cons.  There are still
                       plenty (I'd guess a majority) of conservatives who are
                       in favor of not invading other countries, lower taxes,
                       less spending, smaller government, and all the other
                       traditional conservative agenda items.  Thus it makes
                       me laugh and sad at the same time to see the various
                       motd personalities posting as if the freepers are the
                       sole representatives of the conservative movement.
                       Laughter from how ignorant a belief that is and sadness
                       at how closely otherwise intelligent people hold such
                       a belief.
                       \_ Okay, I'll update the link to reflect that.
                       \_ Isolationists are far right, not "non-neo".
                       \_ Those "agenda items" are far too vague and
                          meaningless. Anybody agrees with that. A politician
                          can go up and talk about that kind of general shit
                          just like they talk about helping the poor and
                          with prescription drugs and etc. and everybody
                          goes "yay!" to anything and everything except
                          actual tax raising or program cuts, at which
                          point both parties are looking exactly the same.
                          And the political discourse in this country is
                          more concerned about stuff like religion and
                          whether somebody "flip-flops".
                          \_ They're not vague at all.  What is vague about
                             smaller government, less spending, lower taxes,
                             local control, and an isolationist leaning
                             international policy?  These are policy platforms
                             for the ages, not specific laws, but you knew
                             the difference between policy and philosophy and
                             were just being silly.
2005/11/10-14 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:40537 Activity:moderate
11/10   http://www.politicalcompass.org
        Another measure of your position on the political spectrum.
        I'm -2.25 Left, -5.64 Libertarian.  -nivra
        \_ Link doesn't work.
        \_ Some of these questions are loaded.  Also, does "Our race" mean
           the human race, or white/asian/black/etc?
           \_ I presume it means the race of the person taking the study.
        \_ -4.65 left, -3.85 libertarian -- I could be the next Dalai Lama!
           -eric
        \_ -2.75 left, -0.87 libertarian --dim
        \_ -2.63 left, -4.31 libertarian -mice
        \_ Isn't this old? This has been posted several times. Too bad
           our friendly archiving is gone.
           \_ archiving wouldn't have prevented it from being posted, nor would
              it have prevented people from posting responses.
        \_ "The old one-dimensional categories of 'right' and 'left' ,
           established for the seating arrangement of the French National
           Assembly of 1789 ......"  Is this real?  I've been wondering about
           the origins of the left/right notation.
           \_ Yes. The people who supported the monarchy sat on the right of
              the chamber, right being the position of respect (as in "right
              hand man"). The "common people", who opposed the absolute power of
              the monarchy and the aristocracy, sat on the left. -gm
        \_ -5.50 left, -5.90 libertarian.  -tom
        \_ Is the Chinese authority moving from Stalin-like to Hitler-like?
        \_ Everyone on the left huh?  4.13 left, -1.08 libertarian
        \_ 3.25 left/right, 0.15 libertarian
        \- -3.13Left,-2.67Lib. i think that overstates my leftiness.
           the moral phil test is better.  --psb
               \_ urlP
                  \_ #t
        \_ 4.75 Right, -2.31 Libertarian.
        \- -3.13Left,-2.67Lib. i think that overstates my leftiness. --psb
           the moral phil test is better.
        \_ some of the squestions are poorly written like the one about
           "plant genetic resources".
           \_ Its fairly obvious they mean the "terminator" gene, but it
              could also include vegetables w/ animal dna.
           \_ "Astrology accurately explains many things"?  Well, yes.  The
              question is what things.
        \_ -3.25 left/right, -6.62 Lib/Authoritarian.  Does this mean I'm
           a fucking hippy?
                \_ Only if you are having sex, if not it just makes you a hippy.  -ax
        \_ I find it amusing that classic liberalism is labeled neo-liberalism
           on their chart.
        \_ Economic Left/Right: -0.25
           Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.72
           This makes me a moderate, while most of you think of me as conservative.
           It seems like the test is a little skewed towards the left, but it
           could be the Berkeley curve throwing things off.  -ax
        \_ 0.50 left, 5.18 libertarian.  Hrm.  -John
        \_ -5.38 left, -6.72 libertarian.  -niloc
        \_ -0.25 left, -2.36 lib. This thing is definitely skewed to the
           left in the economic scale at least. I am pretty certain that
           their "International Chart" showing a whole bunch of famous
           leaders in in the authoritarian+right is wrong; that they are
           inaccurately describing "rightist" economic attitudes with their
           questions on that subject. In reality I think the modern notion of
           the center is somewhere to the left of their absolute scale.
           (On the other hand I do consider myself a moderate and it puts me
           there...)
        \_ -5.88 left, -4.92 lib
2005/11/10-13 [Science/Biology] UID:40538 Activity:low
11/10   The Vatican taking a pro-evolution stance?
        http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1052-1860310,00.html
        \_ The Vatican has a much more rational attitude toward science
           than they had during the time of Galileo.  --PM
           \_ I think it's actually really cool that the Vatican has an
              astronomical observatory in Arizona:
              http://clavius.as.arizona.edu/vo/R1024/VO.html
        \_ Catholics and evolution:
           http://www.catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp
        \_ How many more times do we have to prove that the Church is wrong
           before it stops changing its version of eternal truth?
           \_ I wonder if you read the http://catholic.com link above.  I found it
              very interesting.
2005/11/10-12 [Uncategorized] UID:40539 Activity:nil
11/10   http://grm.cdn.hinet.net/xuite/56/0c/12067215/blog_13366/dv/3913063/3913063.wmv
        Is she lipsycning? Or is she really singing?
        \_ Yes.
2017/11/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/19   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>