Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:07 Monday <Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/11/7-8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:40461 Activity:low
11/7    Correction: In my announcement about temp-soda, it should have read: not (temp-soda@). -mrauser
        \_ Yeah, that wasn't hard to figure out.
        \_ RSA/DSA fingerprints?
        \_ When did tmp become temp and not tmp?
           \_ When I registered and set up the machine 10 months ago. - jvarga
        \_ Sorry, I missed the announcement?  What was it?
           \_ You can get class notes from a friend.
              Just kidding, I'm not that mean.  I announced temp-soda is now
              open for general logins and poking around. -mrauser
2005/11/7 [Uncategorized] UID:40462 Activity:nil
11/6    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they really
        aren't out to get you.
        - danh
2005/11/7 [Uncategorized] UID:40463 Activity:nil 50%like:40472
11/6    \_ Anyone else watch the live West Wing debate? Pretty amazing.
           I've been checking some of the facts they mentioned in the debate
           and it seems to be mostly true. Although Mexico sometimes imports
           more oil to the US than Canada.
2005/11/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Industry/Jobs] UID:40464 Activity:nil
11/6    1590:
        \_ 2016    -mice
        \_ is there any actual skill component to this?
           \_ um, well if you are really patient (bored) you can line
              them up beforehand in chain reactive patterns. that said,
              I'm still just 1037
              \_ ok, now 2193. - pp
                 \_ If I see any scores being posted on Monday, that will
                    be indicative of how much work you have at your job.
                    \- 3574, but i outsourced to a CHINESE VILLAGE
                       \_ hope you got a screenshot or those poor little
                          guys worked for nothing
        \_ There are bugs in this.
2005/11/7-8 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40465 Activity:nil
11/6    With regard to blogs (or any other websites), is it better to
        specify images using a relative path or an absolute one? Thanks.
        \_ Relative.
        \_ I think absolute is friendlier to RSS aggregators, especially
           web-based ones such as bloglines.
           \_ Now if only bloglines could handle dates that are in local time
              but with the proper offset (e.g. -0700) specified, and not treat
              all times as GMT.  (They're valid per the RFC!)
2005/11/7-8 [Uncategorized] UID:40466 Activity:nil
11/6    anyone know of a nice ecommerce toolkit I can download/install/
        customize? A friend wants to set something up and I offered to
        help out. I figured I could just roll my own but he wants to
        use osCommerce which seems good -- but just wondering if there
        was anything better out there. thanks. -rory
        \_ Intershop?  $$$.  -John
2005/11/7-8 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Academia/StanfUrd] UID:40467 Activity:nil
11/6    So, how bad are we going to get pummeled by SC?
        Their first two games this season were 63-17 and 70-17.
        \_ If you look at scores vs. similar opponents, probably about
           42-21 or so. But college football has enough luck in it,
           that if our QB gets his shit together on those long throws
           and actually hits people instead of overthrowing them and
           we get a few lucky breaks, like the turnovers early that
           USC gave Arizona and Oregon, we could actually beat them.
           Notice how USC always scores a ton of points at the end?
           That is because of superiour conditioning. They won't
           do that to us, we are the same kind of team.
           "That's why they play the games."
           \_ Can we at least not lose as badly as the 'furd?
              That was 51-21, 30 points ... not too hard, right?
              \_ God I hope so. At least have it be respectable for 3 qtrs.
2005/11/7-8 [Transportation/Car] UID:40468 Activity:nil
11/5    Toyota Avalon Police Car:
        \_ Better gas mileage than the Ford interceptor.
           Ford Interceptor: 16 city / 22 hwy
           Toyota Avalon: 22 city / 31 hwy
           But then which one better sustains impact with a suspect's vehicle
           is another question.
2005/11/7-8 [Science, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:40469 Activity:nil
11/5    LED Lightbulbs:
        \_ Beautiful! Can't wait for these to hit the market!
           \_ Apparently, they are (not the fancy ones)
2005/11/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40470 Activity:low
11/7    "We do not torture." -GW Bush (Nov 7 2005)
        It depends on what the meaning of "torture" is.
        \_ It depends more on what the meaning of "we" is. Much of
           the torture has been outsourced to private corporations or
           foreign governments.
           \_ But the foreign governments promised us they wouldn't torture!
           Bush says we do not torture, yet he opposes a law banning torture.
           Does this make sense to anyone?
           \_ Of course, this is bush we're talking about, remember?
           \_ It helps if you visualize a lying sack of shit.
           \_ It depends on what the meaning of "torture" is.
           \_ If you have the freedom to do something, you then have
              the choice to not do that something. If that something
              is banned, you can never do it legally. Surely this
              makes sense to you pro-choice ppl.
              \_ Gee, why have any laws at all?
        \_ "We do not torture, and the video evidence hates America."
2005/11/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:40471 Activity:nil
11/7    The Three Kingdoms comic.  Stupid in-jokes about the Romance of
        the Three Kingdoms.  In English, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and,
        what is that, Cambodian?
        \_Close to's Thai. -scottyg
2005/11/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:40472 Activity:low 50%like:40463
11/6    Anyone else watch the live West Wing debate? Pretty amazing.
        I've been checking some of the facts they mentioned in the debate
        and it seems to be mostly true. Although Mexico sometimes imports
        more oil to the US than Canada.
        \_ I watched it, it was very cool.  My roommate and I were actually
           fairly suprised that they incorporated some contemprary issues
           into the debate and it seemed to live in our world and not so much
           the artificial world of the west wing. -mrauser
        \_ Which party is the ruling party in West Wing?  Who plays the
           liberal and who plays the conservative?  I don't watch the show.
           \_ Well, it up to this point in the show has parralleled the
              Clinton presidency (Democratic president, dual republican houses
              in congress).  Just look on if you want the cast.
2005/11/7-8 [Computer/Theory] UID:40473 Activity:kinda low
11/7    Re: "Teaser: write an algorithm for finding prime numbers." on 11/1,
        I wrote some C code to find all prime numbers between 1 and 4294967295
        with 32-bit math (no 64-bit or floating-point math).  It took about 84
        hours on a 502MHz Sun-Blade-100.
        \_ Quickly thought through, totally untested alg.
           Make a list of (n, n^2) tuples for all n < 2^16 and n is prime.
           For all numbers from 2^16 to 2^32 go through the list
             if n^2 > number you are prime, break.
             if number % n = 0 you are not prime.
           \_ That's more or less what I do in my 13-KByte 83-hour algorithm,
              except that I only keep a list of n instead of (n, n^2).  I'll
              try the sieve method.  --- OP
        \_ So I ran: % nice +20 primes 1 4294967295 > primes.txt
           on my 800MHz Athlon.  It took 8 minutes on the nose.
           % wc -l primes.txt
           203280221 primes.txt
           \_ Wow!  Must be a better algorithm.  Where's the source code?
              Better yet, what's the algorithm?  Thx.  -- OP
              \_ Pretty standard sieve of eratosthenes:
                 \_ What's the memory usage?  Mine is ~26KB.  -- OP
                 \_ What's the memory usage?  Mine is ~13KB.  -- OP
                    \_ IIRC, it was a few megs --dbushong
        \_ Did you go from 1 to N or 1 to sqrt(n). That would speed things up.
           \_ I go from 1 to sqrt(n).  -- OP
              \_ are you avoiding even #'s? how about factors of 3, 5, 7, etc.
                 that's basically what "primes" is doing.
                 \_ but there are easier tests for divisibility for smaller
                    primes than there are for larger ones.  also, a test for
                    divisibility by 2, 3, 5, 7 and other smaller primes do
                    more to knock out parts of the field.
2005/11/7 [Recreation/Humor, Industry/Startup] UID:40474 Activity:high 66%like:40479
11/07   without looking at the sites in question, what do you think these are:
                \_ Dildos
                \_ Gay porn
                \_ Penis enhancements
        \_ I read that didn't really exist, and the host
           name was just a joke.
           \_ foolio.
              \_ Oops, I read it wrong.  It's a real site, but it's just not
              \_ Oops, I read it wrong.  It's a real company, but it's just not
                 related to the UK company Powergen.
        \_ On the contrary: http:// ...... Sorry, it used to
           be a porn site.  Now it's not funny anymore.
              \_ http:// fool.
        \_ On the contrary: http://
2005/11/7-8 [Computer/HW/Memory] UID:40475 Activity:nil
11/07   Does 168pin DDR (PC3200) memory needs to be used in pairs? Thx!
        \_ Ideally, in pairs.  Dual-channel mode will be activated if the
           memory is of the same size and in the right slots.
           If not added in pairs or of memory of different size or in the
           wrong slots, then the memory will operate in single-channel mode.
           Your mobo manual should tell you the same thing.
           Your mobo manual will also tell you which slots to use for a pair
           (e.g., for my Asus, it was every other slot that was a pair).
           Same deal with DDR2.
           \_ Dual-channel mode is much faster?
              \_ From what I've read, for your typical program you will see
                 1-5% difference.
                 \_ Dual channel nearly doubles your memory bandwidth.
                    If "typical applications" don't use memory bandwidth,
                    then this guy is right.  But stuff I care about is
                    often limited by memory bandwidth....  --PeterM
                    \_ Yeah, an easy test is to run Doom 3 or whatever and
                       measure fps, swap the memory to the wrong slots, and
                       see if there's a difference.
                       Repeat for real program that you're using.
2005/11/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:40476 Activity:moderate
11/07   So psb and all other experts in Constitutional law, I just
        read Section 2 of the Constitution and it seems pretty
        clear that everyone in the American legal system is entitled
        to a trail by jury. How did this get overturned? When did
        the Executive gain the right to run its own alternative (kangaroo?)
        court system?
        Section. 2.

        Clause 1:

        The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity,
        arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and
        Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; ...
        and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States,
        Citizens or Subjects.

        Clause 3:

        The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by
        Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said
        Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any
        State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress
        may by Law have directed.
        \_ Just about the same time the supreme court has refused to hear
           and/or sent back down the cases to lower courts where in the cases
           where American citizens are being held without trial.  The exec-
           utive and judicial branches of the government are both at fault
           here.  Unfortunately, we are in danger of loosing our most basic
                                                        \_ "losing"
           and fundamental civil rights if the supreme court chooses to ignore
           logic and support the bush regime on this.  If so, its only a matter
           of time before we have American citizens who are "suspected terror-
           ists" being held without council, trial, or indictment and with
                                        \_ "counsel"
           the new position on torture, they will be tortured too. -mrauser
        \_ SCOTUS will be considering the constitutionality of military
           tribunals (vs. application to be tried in the U.S. court system) for
           terror suspects who are not U.S. citizens.
           SCOTUS has already decided that all U.S. citizens (including those
           designated terror suspects by Dubya) can be tried in the U.S. court
           system.  (Previously, the Bush administration had asserted the right
           to indefinitely bar a U.S. citizen from accessing the U.S. court
           system, if designated by Dubya as a terror suspect.)
           \_ How does this explain Jose Padilla who is a US citizen "captured"
              on US soil, but has not been officially processed via the courts?
              \_ See:
              \_ I made a mistake actually.  For U.S. citizens, SCOTUS decided
                 that /some judge/ (even just a judge on a military tribunal)
                 needs to look at the case of a U.S. citizen designated as a
                 terrorist / enemy combatant.  I was wrong when I said U.S.
                 court system.  My bad.
              \_ I made a mistake actually.  For U.S. citizens, SCOTUS has
                 already decided that /some judge/ needs to look at the case
                 of a U.S. citizen designated as a terrorist / enemy combatant.
                 I was wrong when I said U.S. court system.
                 I was wrong when I said U.S. court system.  My bad.
        \_ Art 3 Sec 1 and Sec 2 cl 2 may answer your question. The original
           and appellate jx of the Fed Cts is determined by Congress as per
           Art 3 Sec 1 - it can refuse to set up Fed Cts or to give them any
           jx over cases involving terrorists and choose instead to vest this
           jx in Military Cts setup by the Exec, which I believe is the case
           Although the USSC's original jx is determined by Art 3 Sec 2 cl 2,
           notice that Congress can regulate and strip the USSC's appellate
           jx. Congress has not restricted the USSC from hearing appeals by
           terrorists yet, but conceivably it could.
           As it relates to the jury trial right, a terrorist probably has
           the right to trial by jury, but note this may not be the same
           trial by jury right as in regular fed ct (12 ppl, unanimous ver-
           dict may not be a requirement) and it is not clear to what level
           the fifth and sixth amend. protections would apply.
           I think the BIGGER issue is whether the writ of habeas corpus
           can be used by non-citizens to challenge their detentions - note
           that Hamdi does not answer this b/c he was a citizen. The other
           problem is whether the writ can reach those held in Afghanistan
           or somewhere else that is more than 100 miles from the nearest
           Fed Dist. Ct. This is the bigger issue to me b/c under certain
           circumstances the Exec. may have the pwr to strip a person of
           US citizenship w/o following due process.
           Fed Dist. Ct.
           \- in addition to PADILLA and HAMDI, you may wish to follow HAMDAN
              v RUMSFELD [which the USSC just agreed to look at, and ROBERTS
              has just recused himself ... that is the OSAMA CHAUFFER CASE].
              an older case [ww2] is Ex parte Quirin. in re: the checks and
              balanaces issue, YMWTGF: "constitutional trifecta".
2005/11/7-8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40477 Activity:low
11/07   Has the KAIS MOTD issue been resolved? Can Kevin turn
        the 24 hr diff and searching again?
        \_ Kevin can do whatever he likes.  We asked him (not demanded) that
           he turn off the name attribute logging feature because we thought
           it would make a more anonymous better environment.  We didn't mean
           to imply that if he didn't turn it off we would sorry him (as it
           is easy for anyone to log motd edits and hard to stop or track
           those who do). -mrauser
           \_ He would not (necessarily) be sorried for leaving the logging
              feature active (unless it became a big problem later in which he
              might be officially given an ultimatum), but he was threatened
              with sorrying for not responding to the Politburo e-mails.
        \_ It is my wish to see CSUA become a better place than before. I am
           convinced that the motd experiments I ran in the past year
           made CSUA much worse, and I apologize to countless number of
           people who were directly or indirectly inconvenienced by the
           experiments. I'm very sorry. I have unplugged my work indefinitely
           and I hope by doing so CSUA will be nice again. Finally I'd like to
           point out that mehlhaff has done a great job archiving the motd
           on a consistent basis and I highly recommend his work. Mehlhaff's
           original archiver was an inspiration to me, and will no doubt
           continue to inspire many programmers to come. Thanks. -kchang
           \_ Translation: "You've done a good job pissing me off.
              I have no intention of providing a service
              for you ungrateful sodans and incompetent politburo
              members alike. I'm leaving, y'all go fuck yourselves."
           \_ I found the kais motd extremely useful ... and searching
              through it quite helpful. who thinks so strongly otherwise?
           \_ I agree that your efforts as a whole made it significantly worse.
              However, removing the "guess the poster" function would make
              things better IMO. -emarkp
              \_ I sometimes used the search/archive features. I think it
                 was useful and would lobby to have it turned back on
                 without the aforementioned "guess the poster" function.
                 \_  Thirded.
                   \_ I will add on a small bribe.
                      \_ Yeah, ok, so would I.  So what's yer price, kchang?
                         \_ The price is a regime change in politburo, a
                            regime that is now ruling soda with an iron fist
                            \_ You would need some sort of fake WMD evidence
                               before you can embark on a regime change.
                               \_ [insert ObPantsMissle joke here]
                                  \_ [insert ObFakedIntel joke here]
                 \_ me too -ausman
           \_ The ID feature created a great deal if not all of the
              controversy.  I think it was a very helpful service otherwise.
2005/11/7-8 [Uncategorized] UID:40478 Activity:nil
11/7    We've pretty well hashed over prop 77, what about 78 and 79?  (The
        competeing discount drug plans)  What's the motd opinion on these?
        To my cursory reading, 79 seems a bit heavy-handed, 78 seems
        kinda useless. I'm leaning towards no on both.
        \_ (L.A. Times endorsement, No on both)
2005/11/7-8 [Recreation/Dating, Recreation/Humor] UID:40479 Activity:low 66%like:40474
11/07   without looking at the sites in question, what do you think these are:
                \_ Dildos
        \_ Tranny doctors.
                \_ Gay porn
                \_ Penis enhancements
        \_ I read that didn't really exist, and the host
           name was just a joke.
           \_ foolio.
              \_ Oops, I read it wrong.  It's a real site, but it's just not
                 related to the UK company Powergen.
        \_ On the contrary: http:// ...... Sorry, it used to
           be a porn site.  Now it's not funny anymore.
           \_ now check http://
           \_ http://
2005/11/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40480 Activity:nil
11/7    Watch your back while you're e-mailing at the cyber cafe! (Washington Post)
        "In another attack, three armed men entered an Internet cafe in the
        northern city of Mosul on Monday and assassinated Ahmed Hussein Maliki,
        the number two editor of Tall Afar Today newspaper, according to an
        employee of the paper, who asked not to be named because of security
        concerns. He said the paper recently moved its offices from Tall Afar
        to Mosul, 35 miles to the east, because of threats against the staff."
2005/11/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40481 Activity:nil
11/7    Realism and this Administration: (
2005/11/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:40482 Activity:nil
11/7    16 alleged terrorist arrested in Australia:
2019/08/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:November:07 Monday <Tuesday>