Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:October:28 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/10/28-31 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:40302 Activity:nil
        Sales tumbled 11.8 percent in the West. It's finally happening!
        \_ Hehe, way to misquote and take out of context!  Go-Go Renter Troll!
           I'm going to desperately cling to my home and hope prices don't
           plunge 50% causing my profit to slim down to a mere $100k.  Oh,
           wait.  I live here.  It doesn't matter what the on-paper value is.
           And hmm, the article only talks about new homes.  OTOH, good news
           for you is the "medium home sales price fell 5.7% to $215,700".
           I'm going to run out and buy a few of those... in Idaho.  You would
           have scored 2 motd troll points, except you put the silly "sky is
           falling" editorial in there, but you'll get partial credit: .75
           troll points in your column.  How's the rent thing working out?
           \_ don't worry.  jim cramer says fed is going to raise rates
              until housing bubble pops!  3rd quarter economic growth is
              good.  inflation is through the roof.  this means fed can and
              will raise and raise and raise.  jim cramer is always right!
              yippee!  you will have negative equity soon!  bwahahahaha!
                                                - disgruntled home owner
              \_ Hi renter troll.  Inflation is hardly "through the roof".
                 You'd have to go back to Jimmy Carter times to see that.
                 Homeowners don't care what their on paper value is.  Only
                 speculators.  I'm taking away .5 troll points for the
                 inflation comment.  You're down to .25 troll points.
                 \_ For consumer products, no, but for assets, yes, they
                    are very much through the roof!  Even for consumer
                    stuff, 5.7% ain't mellow.
              \_ If you don't plan on selling right away and you're a homeowner,
                 inflation is a good thing.  You get paid more, stuff costs
                 more, so that's a no-op.  But hey!  Your property tax and
                 mortgage don't rise to match.  You win!
                 \_ In fact, real estate prices tend to track inflation in the
                    long run.
                 \_ Supposedly.  But I think the inflation for houses
                    has already happened.  The other things are only
                    now slowly catching up.
2005/10/28-31 [Uncategorized] UID:40303 Activity:nil
10/28   Flash paraody of Ah-nold
2005/10/28-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40304 Activity:nil
10/27   Dear miserable soda undergrads and the incompetent and stupid
        politburo members who are out of touch with the real world, you
        guys seriously need a life.
        \_ "Millions of Linden Dollars change hands every month for the goods
           and services Residents create and provide. This currency may then be
           bought and sold on third party sites for real currency. Many of
           these sites even offer in-world "ATM" machines to facilitate
           transactions." Isn't that illegal in the U.S.?
           \_ not as long as you pay your income taxes
2005/10/28-29 [Recreation/Computer, Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:40305 Activity:nil
10/28   Sulu, you have the helm.
        \- in an odd coincidence, SPORK previously played the same role
           in EqEqEquus. I believe that HOMOSEXUAL DATA FELLOW has hit on
        \- in an odd coincidence, SPORK previous played the same role
           in EqEqEquus. I believe that Homosexual Data fellow has hit on
           the brother of a sloda user.
2005/10/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40306 Activity:nil
10/28   An Act of Federal Piracy
        \_  Freeper quote:
            "Lock and Load...and wear a copy of the Constitution pinned to your
            shirt! It's gonna get UGLY for the next few years....
            I am now 100% convinced that Bush is now doing all he can to ensure
            Hillary is elected in 2008...hmm...Bush, Clinton...Bush, Clinton....
            could another Bush be far behind?!
            NO! Never again! "
            Ha! So much for the base.
        \_ "The gaia high priests were deeply offended that they and their
            collectivist comrades weren.t offered bent knee respect by a
            commoner, and he didn.t pay out a $270,000 tribute to study,
            admire and appease their wetland god."
           I thought there was some law requiring this sort of purple prose
           to be preceded by a disclaimer-- oh, right, it's a freeper link.
2005/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:40307 Activity:nil
10/20   New York Times profit drops 52%                                  -jblack
2005/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:40308 Activity:nil
10/20   Liberal activist paid homeless people to rally                   -jblack
2005/10/28 [Finance/Banking, Finance] UID:40309 Activity:nil
10/17   Do poor blacks need to hear 'millions more' excuses?             -jblack
2005/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:40310 Activity:nil
10/17   The national silence on immigration                           -jblack
2005/10/28 [Reference/Religion] UID:40311 Activity:nil
10/17   More people killed by natural disasters in non-Christian countries.
2005/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40312 Activity:nil
10/16   Black people advocating the final solution against white people. -jblack
2005/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:40313 Activity:nil
10/16   DeLay's prosecutors lack a key document
2005/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:40314 Activity:nil
10/15   Meth sting leads to 15 arrests with Mexican immigrants          -jblack
2005/10/28 [Politics/Domestic/911, Health/Disease/General] UID:40315 Activity:nil 92%like:40316
        "The whole city smells like maple syrup" - anyone know what's going on?
2005/10/28-31 [Politics/Domestic/911, Health/Disease/General] UID:40316 Activity:low 92%like:40315
10/29 []
        "The whole city smells like maple syrup" - anyone know what's going on?
        \_ There's a section of pathway in Lakeside Park where there's a burst
        \_ There's a section of pathway in Merritt Park where there's a burst
           of maple syrup smell.  I'm almost positive it's from a tree.  Either
           from the bark or the leaves.
        \_ Perhaps there was a big pancake breakfast at the homeless
           shelter, such that the usual bum/urine smell was covered over
           by the new sweet smelling bums.
           \_ I just got back from NYC and had few little bum/urine/puke/
              garbage smelling experiences. Unlike the mission, where I get to
              smell it everyday... I'm told that east coast cities smell less
              than SF/SOMA because it rains more there, but I'm thinking that
              there's more to it. Anyone have any crazy hypothosis?
              \_ California pee more odiferous. It's the cheese, man.
                 \- it may just be colder.
2005/10/28-29 [Computer/SW/Database, Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:40317 Activity:low
10/28   Has anyone interfaced Java and MySQL? Is is difficult? Where
        should I start?
        \_ JDBC?
           \_ JDBC.
        \_ JDBC, and it is really easy.
2005/10/28-29 [Computer/Companies/Yahoo] UID:40318 Activity:nil
10/28   I've got a friend with a Yahoo account problem who is getting the run-
        around from customer care.  Any of you Yahoo types out there care to
        field this for me?  Send me email. - jvarga
        \_ don't dignify it by calling it "customer care."  -tom
2005/10/28-31 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:40319 Activity:low
10/29   It's been over 10 years since I took 162. What is a good place
        for a refresher course on the architecture and advantages vs.
        disadvantages of using various file systems for BSD, Linux,
        MacOS, NT/XP, and others? ok thx.
        \_ And the legendary FAT.
        \_ And HPFS, NTFS, and the legendary FAT.
        \_ i think newer editions of the dinosauar book cover this
           \_ It's funny that my 164 book (Sp '92) also has a dinosaur on the
              \_ It's a dragon.  Hence the compilers book (ASU) is known as
                 the dragon book.
2005/10/28-31 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40320 Activity:moderate
10/28   Docs say I can't do dd from disk that is in use.
        This seems (based on my bad memory) to be contrary to my experience.
        Any opionions on duping an inuse disk (to a non-inuse one).
        this is on solaris 8.
        \_ live update, ufsdump, rsync, dd... you want your filesystem
           as quiesced as possible though for all of the above
        \_ what the above and others say about quiet drives and RO and then:
           since you don't tell us what problem you're trying to solve, my
           very generic advice is this:  dd the drive so you get boot blocks
           and other fun stuff you might want, then do an rsync after that just
           for kicks in the hopes of catching a few of the files that might
           have been in use while doing dd.  no, this followup rsync will not
           make a perfect mirror on an active disk but if you wanted to do a
           real backup, you'd use real software for it or at least take the
           source drive offline.  you're well into kludge territory already,
        \_ You can dd from a disk that is in use. You will obviously not
           get an exact duplicate and, as above, I would not try this
           on a very busy filesystem. However, it works fine under Solaris
           9/10 and Red Hat Linux. I've done this to make 'backup' disks
           (successfully) many times.
        \_ If you need to keep the filesystem mounted RW, I'd suggest
           using rsync rather than dd. If the filesystem is mounted RO
           it seems like dd would be fine.
           \_ Rsync is slower and won't grab the boot blocks (if you want
                \_ rsync is NOT slower than DD unless the filesystems are
                   basically full. -top
                   \_ Yes, it is. Best case scenario (using the right
                      rsync options) they are about equal. "dd" can use
                      the raw device and bypass the filesystem entirely.
                      Amended: You are right that if the filesystem/disk is
                      not very full then "dd" will be slower merely because it
                      is copying "empty" space but not because "dd" is
                      intrinsically slower.
        \_ What problem are you trying to solve?
           What are your priorities?
                      \_ so it's not "intrinsically slower", it just takes
                         longer to run?  Get a clue.  -tom
                         \_ I think you need the clue, tom. "dd" is
                            faster. If you want to prune the list of files
                            you want to "dd" first it will kick the butt
                            of "rsync". You know that, too, but you just
                            like to argue. When copying the exact same
                            volume of data, "dd" is faster.
                            \_ While driving a car is faster than walking,
                               walking from Telegraph and Bancroft to
                               Telegraph and Durant is much faster than
                               driving.  "dd is faster" is meaningless
                               unless the problem is well-defined.  -tom
                               \_ Even your example is false.
                                  \_ Alright, we're convinced: you're an idiot.
                                     You don't have to try this hard just for
                                     \_ You may as well say that a plane
                                        is slower than walking, too. The
                                        statement about a 'well-defined'
                                        problem is your own parameter but
                                        doesn't change the fact that
                                        planes are faster than walking.
                                        \_ To put this in a way that even
                                           an idiotic computer geek might
                                           understand, if you have two
                                           different sort algorithms,
                                           one that's usually faster in
                                           practice but O(N^2), and one
                                           that's usually slower in practice
                                           but O(N log N), it makes no sense
                                           to say that one is intrinsically
                                           faster than the other.  It
                                           depends on the problem you have
                                           to solve.  -tom
                            \_ HAMMER GOOD!
                               If you took a second to think, you'd realize
                               you're clueless.  Or maybe not.  It's dim.
                               \_ Do you know what the word 'intrinsic'
                                  \_ Yes.  You seem to have trouble with the
                                     word 'slower', though.
                                     \_ "dd" is intrinsically faster.
                                        \_ Not for the problem posed (ergo
                                           "HAMMER GOOD").  If you want to
                                           keep spouting your technically
                                           correct and completely irrelevent
                                           point, by all means...  You will
                                           still be wrong.
                                           \_ You have come to know that which
                                              is tom.
                                              \_ hey moron: he's replying to
                                           \_ We don't even *know* what the
                                              problem posed is yet. However,
                                              we do know the guy wants to
                                              use 'dd' to solve it. Rsync
                                              may not even be a viable
                                              solution in this particular case.
        \_ What problem are you trying to solve? What are your priorities?
        \_ try using solaris' Volume Manager (also known as disksuite).
           create a one way mirror containing the current live FS as the
           initial submirror, then attach the second empty FS as another
           submirror.  wait for the second submirror to sync up, then at
           your leisure, detach the second submirror.
           look at metadb, metainit, metattach, metadetach, metaclear,
           and other "meta"commands. --Jon
           look at metadb, metainit, metattach, metaoffline/online,
           metadetach, metaclear, and other "meta"commands. --Jon
           \- i have a solaris 10 sunblade 1500 which some colleages
              wanted to clone to save time. i rebooted my machine and used
              /usr/bin/dd if=/dev/dsk/c0t0d0s2 of=/dev/dsk/c0t1d0s2 bs=1000k
              and thne fscked. all the machines work fine ( 5 clones). it
              sounds like you know what the issues are so just take this an
              a data point. 73gig disks ... i think it tok 40min or so.
              oh i am sure i booted it su and killed off most of the
              processes before running dd.
              \_ The thing with the Solaris LVM method is that you don't
                 really need to have the filesystem quiescent.  You get a
                 valid, consistent snapshot at the time of metaoffline or
                 metadetach. --Jon
              \_ As long as you understand this isn't considered "production
                 quality", if that worked for you, great.  I wouldn't do that
                 for something going into a data center 24x7, etc.
                 \- i bet lot of production operations were running on
                    less reliable windows installations (i dont know how
                    reliable windows OS is today). anyway, these are
                    cheep sun workstations with ide disks, so what do you
                    think. anyway, it seemed to be the OP was aware of the
                    "issues" and was just interested if it was "crazy talk"
                    [you'ld be lucky if it worked] vs. 99%chance it should
                    be fine. hence the "datapoint x5" comment.
                    \_ who said that just because you put a windows box in
                       production means its production quality?  thanks for
                       pointing out they're workstations.  that was so unclear.
                       i was pointing out that this isn't production quality.
                       \- are you a frequent visitor to Casino Troll?
                       \_ And what is "production quality"? This is essentially
                          what tools like "System Imager" do. What are you
                          afraid of? 'cksum' the OS if you want to. Bits
                          is bits.
                          \_ PQ: built correctly, not a hack job with dd
                             from another box.  Something you'd bet your
                             career on.  Workstation for the guys?  Whatever.
                             Server in the colo running critical db?  No way
                             is that getting built from a dd clone off a hot
                             drive.  Building a few dozen/hundred/whatever
                             web/whatever servers?  Jump/Kick Start.  I've
                             done the clone thing for workstations.  I'd
                             never do it for servers.  If you want to discuss
                             it in detail, post your name and we'll take it
                             to email.
2005/10/28-30 [Uncategorized] UID:40321 Activity:nil
        \_ I read "... GET IN TOUCH WITH VULVA ..."
        \_ Since when does Julia post to MOTD?
           \_ I pity the minionless
2005/10/28-31 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40322 Activity:nil
10/28   Libby indicted, Rove not.
        \_ yet.
        \_ Note no one's been indicted for the actual leak yet.
           \_ The leak law is very narrowly written.  It's entirely possible
              that the leaking was done with malice and violates the spirit of
              the law, but it will be too hard to get a conviction to they
              don't indict for that.  Perjury is somewhat easier to prove.
              \_ Note, though, that the investigation is not over.  The people
                 named in the indictment is an impressive list.  If any one of
                 them end up indicted as well, this will be the story for the
                 rest of Bush's presidency.
                 \- i guess it takes more than invading a country on false
                    pretenses, torturing people, letting osama get away,
                    not really caring about well connected companies looting
                    the public coffers.
        \_ Let's be clear on what he was indicted for.  If you read the
           document only real two charges stand up and they are based on
           hearsay. 1)  Libby said Russert "asked" him about Plame, Russert
           in his testimony said this never happened.  In fact, Russert
           himself disputes the facts as they are laid out in the indictment,
           saying publicly he never received any information on Plame at
           all from Libby.
           2) Libby testified he qualified to Miller his statement about
           Plame with the phrase "that's what reporters are telling us".
           Miller disagreed in her testimony.
           Just he said she said, all pretty underwhelming.
           in his testimony said this never happened. 2) Libby testified he
           qualified to her his statement about Plame with the phrase "that's
           what reporters are telling us".  Miller disagreed in her
           testimony.  Just he said she said, all pretty underwhelming. -jblack
2005/10/28-30 [Transportation/Car] UID:40323 Activity:high
10/28   Hi guys.  I have a 1996 Camry DX (85K miles) and the mechanic says I
        need to replace my shocks.  He quoted me $800 for parts&labor.  Is
        this fair? This place (non-dealership) has done a good job previous
        visits, uses OEM parts most of the time, and is Japanese-owned.
        \_ check out wheelworks.. usually buy 3 get one free ($600)
           on struts.
        \_ if you tires are bouncing (you can tell if you get groves
           deep wear evenly spaced/spread across your tires (like
           if you were bouncing a basketball). if so you need new struts
        \_ The price is about right for a shocks&struts job.  I can't
           comment on the realiability of the labor, which is what you
           comment on the reliability of the labor, which is what you
           should really care about
        \_ Kais Motd would've given you the answer.
        \_ You go on living your life how you want, but I'll just point out
           that your little "problem" will cost you more than I have spent on
           my current bike and my previous bike and all the bike related
           accessories I've ever bought.
           \_ as i've thought throughout college, riding bike is good, but is
              not so good for non-bike dates
        \_ sounds a little on the high-side, but not unreasonable for good
           quality work.
        \_ One more question:  In the context above, is it just the "shocks"
           he's replacing?  I read on howstuffworks that a "strut" technically
           includes the shock absorber too. -op
           \_ A "shock" is a big spring; it's responsible for absorbing jolts
              from the road. A "strut" is a passive hydraulic piston that
              dampens out the vibrations in this spring; if you didn't have
              struts, your car would porpoise up and down after hitting a bump.
              You usually replace shocks and struts at the same time. Shocks
              do less as they age due to fatigue on the metal; struts also wear
              down. I had my shocks&struts changed out a year or so ago on my
              '95 car, and the handling and ride comfort both improved. It was
              less than $800, but not by much. (I have an American car.) -gm
                 From the above URL, it sounds like a "shock" is a piston type
                 device, not really a spring ... -op
                 \_ Hey, how about that. Disregard prior "expertise". -gm
                    \_ No worries ... I almost think some mechanics would look
                       at me funny if I told them taht
        \_ Shocks don't ever really need replacement, unless the ride
           quality is unacceptable to you.
           \_ I was wondering about this as well, why is a guy driving a
              10 year old car worried about how smooth the ride is?
              \_ mechanic said it was time -op
              \_ mechanic said it was time.  Personally I would wait at least
                 two more years or pass the cost to the next owner; I can
                 stand the car bouncing down the freeway, even at ~ 80mph.
                 It's actually my gf's car, though. -op
                 \_ For a car that old, the time to fix things is when
                    they break. Exceptions are anything to do with the
                    cooling system (e.g. hoses), the safety system (e.g.
                    brakes) and the timing belt. You want to replace those
                    items before they break. Shocks? No way.
                    \_ after reading the comments, I've come to agree -- I'd
                       personally replace at leaking shocks (i'd be worried
                       about metal-on-metal grinding).  eh, some people say
                       shocks are part of the safety system, but thanks for
                       the advice.
        \_ I always ask: 1) is this a safety issue?  2) will it cause any
           other damage if I don't pay you a zillion bucks to fix it.  Based
           on those answers I decided if my money will be well spent on a fix
           or not.  I'd spend a few bucks on minor stuff, I'd spend as much
           as reasonably needed for a safety issue (or just replace it if it
           was too much), but wouldn't spend $800 on a non-safety issue that
           didn't bother me.
           \_ Jah.  I'm basically saying, let's assume it's a safety issue.
              Then, Is $x fair for repair y? -op
              \_ Yes, if it's for good quality parts and a good job.
2005/10/28-31 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:40324 Activity:nil
10/28   Abandon the Web! guerrilla platform warfare:
2005/10/28-31 [Health/Disease/General] UID:40325 Activity:nil
10/28   Exxon-Mobil Employees Given Fake Flu Shots
        \_ I got jabbed in the arm and I'll I got was this lousy placebo.
           \_ We demand extra-strength placebos!
              \_ I want some quality sugar cane not that corn syrup crap.
2005/10/28-31 [Finance/Investment] UID:40326 Activity:high
10/28   Hi, does it make sense now that interest rates are rising and that
        the housing bubble appears to be peaking, that there will be a flux of
        $$$ from housing to stocks?  Evidence of this would be the Dow Jones
        average increasing noticeably over the next 6-12 months.
        \_ Rising interest rates usually hurt the stock market.
           \_ but it will eventually end, and rates will start going down
              \_ or it will go up, and then oscillate at a higher level
                 for a very very long time.
                 \_ economy/stock market starts to go down, slow too much,
                    and interest rates will start going down again.
                    \_ if inflation remains high, which do you think
                       the fed would pick: inflation or recession?
                       \_ why do you think they would 'choose' either bad
                          thing?  why do you think they have that kind of
                          power over the economy?  if they had the power
                          to 'choose' the state of the economy, they would
                          always choose a strong/healthy/robust economy.
                          was there a point to your question?
                          \_ Err ... the fed does one main thing, adjust
                             the interest rate up or down.  To fight
                             recession, they would lower the interest
                             rate, to fight inflation, they would raise
                             the interest rate. That's what is meant
                             by the fed "choosing".  I think most
                             people understood that.
                             \_ Ok then.  In that case, they would still choose
                                to attempt to get to the magical place in
                                between those two states since either of the
                                other states can/will kill the economy if the
                                condition goes too far.  It is much harder to
                                pull the economy out of a tail spin than it
                                is to keep it from doing so in the first place
                                since both recessionary and inflationary
                                states feed on themselves in a cycle of doom
                                without more and more serious intervention.
                                It is that intervention that the Fed is in a
                                continuous state of attempting to perform.  It
                                is like asking a surgeon if he'd prefer his
                                patient died from a heart attack or a stroke
                                while on the operating table.
                                \_ or it could be a surgeon deciding
                                   whether he should save a man's leg,
                                   but possibly risk the man's life,
                                   or amputate the infected leg.
                                   \_ well except that it can't be.  both
                                      economic conditions are horrible if
                                      they slip beyond a reasonably small
                                      range and feed on themselves.  would
                                      you rather a) destroy the economy or
                                      b) destroy the economy.
                                      \_ how would they "feed on
                                         themselves"?  Do explain.
                                      \_ well sometimes inflation and
                                         recessions will happen and there
                                         is nothing you can do about it.
                                         The only choice you get is pick
                                         one.  why do you believe that only
                                         good things are allowed to happen?
                                         because you said "it can't be"?
                                         have you heard of the term
        \_ Buy gold, an AK-47 and stock up on ammunition.
           \_ Uhhhhh, when is this *not* a good idea?
              \_ When you live in CA. You CAN NOT buy anything close to
                 an AK-47 here. Not even the semiautomatic version. Just
                 a .22 LR rimfire superfacially similar looking one.
                 BTW, I am the proud owner of a Bulgarian AK-47 and 75rd
                 drums, with plenty of 7,62 x 39 mm ammo. :)
        \_ Rising interest rates will lead to the rising of the dead. Move
           away from large cities.
           \_ The dead will be raised -- for fuel.
              \_ From 9/14:
                 German invertor creates renewable fuel. A newspaper say he
                 uses dead cats as the source but he denies it. Fucking
        \_ not a good idea.  best investment now could be the I bonds.
           almost 100% probability that it will be more than 6% when
           they set the rate for the next 6 months on 11/1.
           they set the rate for the next 6 months on 11/1 cause the
           variable part of the rate will be 5.7% and the "fixed"
           rate is 1.2% but may be lowered, but should still be
           more than 0.5%
2005/10/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:40327 Activity:nil
10/28   President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat (reasons MSM should read again)        -jblack
2005/10/28-29 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Reference/Law/Visa] UID:40328 Activity:nil
10/27   Jobs program tries to discourage immigration to U.S.            -jblack
2005/10/28-11/5 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:40329 Activity:nil
10/28   Contractors Plead Guilty to Illegal Donations to Texas Democrats -jblack
2019/08/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:October:28 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>