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| 2005/10/22-24 [Uncategorized] UID:40223 Activity:kinda low |
10/22 Gen-X is 27-40:
http://www.nahb.org/news_details.aspx?sectionID=137&newsID=1496
\_ 62.4% of statistics are made up on the spot, the other 47.9% are
pulled out of someone's ass when they have an article deadline.
"Gen-X" means whatever some starving socialist wants it to mean.
What else would socialists do but invent meaningless terms for
their books?
\_ socialist?
\_ heh, sorry, it was early. sociologists.
\_ This reminds me of the time I was standing in a Berkeley
dumpster digging for books in the middle of the night, and
this other random other guy jumped in and was also digging
for books, and for some reason called me a Stalinist.
Stalinist?? Only in Berkeley.
\_ I thought we were an autonomous collective.
\_ You're fooling yourself. |
| 2005/10/22-24 [Science/GlobalWarming, Reference/RealEstate] UID:40224 Activity:nil |
10/21 http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/disillus.html Housing disillusion. You can skip the last paragraph on Jesus Christ \_ Uh, this article was written in 1991, and turned out to be completely wrong. -tom \_ What is the point of posting this article, unless it is to show that gloom and doomers are always with us? |
| 2005/10/22-24 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:40225 Activity:very high |
10/21 Dear house owners. How much time/week do you spend on house upkeep?
In another word, how much time do you spend on mowing the lawn,
pulling weeds, adding fertilizers, watering bald spots, adjusting
sprinklers, cleaning up the garage (which by the way is used for
storage instead of storing the car), changing toilet assemblies,
spraying pesticides, and other things? If you pay someone to do
it and spend no time on it, please respond with the price you
pay. I'm asking because as the only son who grew up in the suburbs,
I had to do all of the above and I HATED IT. I just want to
find out how much time and/or money grown-ups spend on these
things, and why people like the routine suburbia lifestyle. Thanks.
\_ Gardener, 1/wk, $120/month. House cleaner, 1/wk, 2 persons 4
hours each, $70/wk.
\_ Maid service 2/month: $80x2. A few hours/month on other stuff and
of course the garage is used for storge. It was designed for it.
Why do people like the suburbs? They don't necessarily. If you
have kids putting them in a city school can be disasterous. Look
at the SF school system for an example of that. Lack of space for
same kids in city. Lots of people don't like the cramped and often
loud and/or dirty city living option. Many other "the city isn't
where I'd want to be" reasons. The suburbs are just where you can
live and still be close enough to have a job. So you changed toilet
assemblies so your mom wouldn't have to? Ok, she could pay a
plumber to do it and there'd be that many fewer toys at Xmas. I did
chores. You did chores. Kids do chores (or should). Welcome to
the middle class. There are worse things that could've happened to
you growing up.
\_ simple. buy a tonwhouse. save lots of trouble.
\_ How is the SF school system disasterous? Last I checked, they
\_ How is the SF school system disastrous? Last I checked, they
were better than the statewide average and the West side high
schools are particularly good. -ausman
\_ You're kidding right? And how do you get into one of those
elite schools? And if you don't, then what? And if you
don't live near your school which is likely how does your
kid get there? Can a grade schooler drive? Can every
high schooler afford a car? Sit on a bus for a few hours
each day? C'mon....
\_ You get into Lincoln and Washington just like you get into
every high school in San Francisco. If you have good enough
test scores, you get into Lowell and get an education as
good as the priciest private school. I grew up in a rural
region and took a bus 1/2 hr each way until I could afford
to buy my own car. I did not find that particularly onerous.
Do you really think it takes "a few hours" to get anywhere
in a city that is 7 miles by 8 miles? I could walk anywhere
in The City in less than a few hours.
I just pulled down the STAR results for San Francisco and
compared them to Orange and Riverside Counties, two
California suburban counties and they compare favorably.
\_ How long ago were you in school? Read the papers to
see what's going on there today. And yes, a school
bus has to make many stops, obey traffic laws cars
tend to ignore and drive slow, so yeah, an hour or
more each way wouldn't be odd. I've walked across the
city from the market area west to the beach. You're
not saying a kid should walk that to school? Why do
you even mention walking? And here's a concept: why
should a kid have to get high test scores to get into
a particular school on the other side of the city?
Why can't the local school be as good as any other?
Why is there a tiny number of elite schools and the
rest are dismal anti-academic pits?
\_ Why isn't everyone above average, is that what
you are seriously asking? It is obvious that
\_ Not every school can be above average, but every
school can and should be good.
\_ Lowell is elite because they are very
selective about their admission criteria.
\_ Are you implying that non-selective schools
cannot be good? Otherwise I fail to
understand how your point respond to the
previous poster's that all schools should
be good. In any case, Lowell entrance is
selective only if you're a non-protected
minority. Entrance for protected minorities
is relatively easy, no?
\_ No, I honestly don't think all schools
can be good. Can you point to one
school in an impoverished area that is
good? Schools can only do so much.
Lowell is a great school because it is
selective. There are good schools in
San Francisco and elsewhere that are not
"selective" overtly, but they still
select from an educated and privileged
section of the population.
Having said that, yes it is too bad
that we don't do a better job educating
everyone. Holding up SF schools as an
example of a disastrous failure is not
a very strong one.
is relatively trivial, no?
\_ So good schools are good because they
only let in smart kids? So you're
saying it doesn't matter how much
funding, what teachers, which books,
or anything else; just put all the
smart kids together and you get a
good school. And the opposite is
true? Put the less than brilliant
kids together and you get a bad
school? It seems the way to get
decent but not fantastic schools for
everyone is to spread those smart
kids around.
\_ Perhaps, but I don't know how you
are going to convince parents to
do that. If you really believe
what you preach, why didn't you
go to SJ State instead of UCB?
By the way, your technique is
practiced in many states throughout
the upper midwest, to good effect,
so you certainly have a point.
\_ When I went to Lowell, it was
massively underfunded and falling
apart at the seams. It was a good
school that produced excellent
students due to a combination of
letting in smart people, who didn't
drag the other people in their
classes down, and great, dedicated
teachers. Naturally this is a
generalization--there were a few
morons, both students and teachers.
However, their negative effect was
minimal due to the above. No, not
everyone can be a winner, life is
not fair. And yes, most students
there "had" to commute. Like a
lot of Cal students commute-you
do it because you value the
education over your comfort. -John
\_ I read a research study on this
for colleges, not high schools.
The conclusion is that the school
only matters in one case - a
top student goes to a bad school.
then the student's achievement
could be affected. in all other
cases - good student going to
good school, or midrange school,
average student going to good
school or average school or bad
school, etc., the school doesn't
make a difference.
you nothing about San Francisco schools and
barely anything about San Francisco. K-6 schools
barely anything about San Francisco. K-5 schools
are mostly within walking distance and high schoolers
take MUNI, not a school bus. My commute to work
is 35-45 minutes, I don't see why my (future) teenage
daughter shouldn't have a similar commute.
\_ Because she's a kid and kids shouldn't have to
commute. You have a choice in the matter. Your
child is stuck with your decisions. That you
can't see that is oddly disturbing.
\_ It is nice that you want to give your child
every advantage in the world, but it might
set them up for some dissapointments when
they have to face the real world.
\_ Uhm, so you're "toughening her up"? The
real world is there in her face every day.
I could go on but our philosophies are so
different anything more I say would look
like a personal insult and there's no need
for that. I'm ok agreeing to disagree if
you are. I'm stopping now.
\_ I grew up in a rural area, where I had
to get up at dawn to feed the chickens
ducks and rabbits, collect the eggs
and prepare breakfast for my seven
siblings. Then I got on a half hour
bus ride to school. After school, I helped
in the garden, washed my own clothes and
spent an hour a night washing dishes or
doing other chores. I think that growing
up like that made me a better person than
my spoiled and self-indulgent classmates.
I don't intend for my child to have that
hard a life, but I don't want her to end
up a spoiled princess either.
my narcissistic and self-indulgent class-
mates. I don't intend for my child to have
that hard a life, but I don't want her to
to work that hard, but I don't want her to
end up a spoiled princess either.
\- hear hear.
And you plan on moving to the suburbs to escape
what you percieve as "disastrous" urban schools,
but you decry the fact that some people prefer to
send their kids to better urban schools? Have you
ever heard of the term "hypocrisy"?
send their kids to better urban schools? Maybe the
reason some schools aren't as good as they might
be is because a bunch of overly fearful parents
moved to the suburbs to isolate themselves from
poor people and other "dangerous" sorts. The truth
is that the cities are no more dangerous than the
suburbs, it is just that the risks are different.
\_ What he is asking is why everyone isn't able
to obtain a quality education in SF. The best
schools are so much better than even the
average schools. This is different from, say,
LA Unified where pretty much all the schools suck
equally. Personally, I'd avoid public schools
altogether. If you can afford to live in SF
then you can afford a private school.
\_ Lots of parents look for houses in areas with
good schol disctricts, so they can send their
kids to public schools and apply the money
that would have gone to a private school
tuition to the mortgage instead. The question
is whether it's to educational benefit of
children (in the aggregate, assuming a random
distribution of children) to live in a city
like San Francisco, where they have a chance
to end up in some truly awful schools, or in
a city like San Jose, where the quality range
of school is narrower, or in a suburban town,
where the quality range is narrow indeed.
There are of course non-educational pros and
cons for living in each city, and the emphasis
placed on education varies from family to
family. But, I suspect, using San Francisco
as an example, unless one has a reasonable
I suspect, unless one has a reasonable
expectation that one's child will end up in
one of the top few schools, it's better for
the child's education to live in a town where
the likelihood of going to a bad school is low.
family. But, I suspect, unless one has a
reasonable expectation that one's child will
end up in one of the top few schools, it's
better for the child's education to live in a
town where the likelihood of going to a bad
school is low.
There are of course non-educational pros and
cons for living in each city, and the emphasis
placed on education varies from family to
family.
\_ You are guaranteed one of your top three
choices of high schools in San Francisco.
So just put down Washington, Lincoln and
Wallenbeg and you are guaranteed a good
school in a safe neighborhood. Any irrational
fear of something else bad happening to you
is simply that, an irrational fear.
\_ Ok so if *everyone* is *guaranteed* one
of their top three choices, why doesn't
everyone in SF put down the same three
top schools and leave all the rest
empty?
\_ All right, I guess I was wrong. I was
\_ All right, I guess I misspoke. I was
repeating what I had read in The
Examiner. It seems that you have to
put down 7 choices and even then they
Examiner. I guess you have to put
down 7 choices and even then they
not guaranteed. The Examiner claims
that 99% of parents get one of their
top three choices, at least in 2003.
Circumstances, can of course change.
But they can change anywhere, even in
a tony suburb.
\_ So, living in a city like SF _does_
mean your kid can end up in a
shitty school on the other side of
town and there's nothing you can
do about it? Thus, we see a very
good reason for parents to live in
a place where there is no chance of
going to a bad school and a good
chance of a better school. It
means sacrificing the cool city
life but sacrificing is what good
parents do.
\_ Or you can spend more time with
your kids to make sure they do
well in their studies / get into
good schools.
\_ You do realize that your
solution is not scalable.
\_ In what sense? If you have
lots of children? Or to all
parents?
\_ The latter mostly,
though the former to a
lesser degree also.
\_ Your solution only works
if most parents do not
stress their kids'
education. If many
parents try to make
sure their kids do
well in their studies,
then almost none of
them can have a
reasonable expectation
of getting into the top
few schools.
\_ In the 1% case, you can either:
a) send your kids to private school
a) send your kids to private
school
or
b) move to the suburbs then.
This is what I plan on doing, if
I talk my wife into it. -ausman
\_ So the solution to the problem of not every student
getting a quality education in a city is to move
to a gated suburb and isolate yourself from the
rest of the world? Perhaps the real question is
why doesn't every student get a quality education
everywhere, but asking that question might force
the questioner to admit some of the responsibility
for the failure onto themselves, which they seem
spectacularly unable or unwilling to do.
\_ Uhm, where are all these 'gated suburbs' of
which you speak? Could you point out a few
because I haven't seen any. I do like your
rhetorical bit in the second half though. A
nice combination of 'high horse-ism', a touch
of holier-than-thou mixed with a dash of
you-selfish-bastard. Could you possibly take
a moment to explain how a city school in some
other county sucking is in any way the fault
of someone in a suburb, mythically gated or
not, 20+ miles away?
\_ Because there are only so many dollars in
the world and so many gifted teachers. If
Blackhawk takes more than its share, then
there is less to go around to the rest.
I am kind of astonished that I would have
to explain this to an engineer.
Shorebird Islands in Redwood City and
Silver Creek Valley Country Club in San
Jose are gated, two that I found using
google in sixty seconds. Since 40% of new
developments in California are gated, you
must not have looked very hard.
\_ Redwood City and SJ? Yech. I would never
live in such a place so you're right, I
didn't look very hard in such places.
Anyway, what you seem to be saying is that
a district that can afford to pay teachers
better is somehow cheating and robbing a
poorer district of their rightfully
deserved quality teachers. However, we
see John posting that Lowell was a broken
pit when he went there and someone else
posted about a study (yes, college, not
HS, but it's what we've got) that said
good students tend to do well where ever
they go and bad students do poorly and
etc. So what exactly are the people in
SJ stealing from SF? Smart kids?
\_ It wasn't a total loss; it was very
mediocre and underfunded in terms of
infrastructure, not some slum. I read
some figures at the time that LHS got
fraction of the average per student $$
of other SF public high schools--the
rumor about at the time was that a few
of the more crackpot supervisors like
Harry Britt didn't like the idea of an
"elite" school paid for by tax dollars
and tried to kill it. Whatever--what
made it was the combination of really
good and dedicated teachers and high
qualiy (i.e. selected) students. -John
\_ Don't 50% of the graduates go to
Stanford, Berkeley and or an Ivy?
That sounds like a pretty good
school to me.
\_ It is (was?) a great school.
That is my point. It was so
to a large degree because they
only let good/smart students in
and were able to focus on giving
them a good education. This
seems to be some sort of elitist
taboo in some cirles. -John
\_ Not elitist, but it sort
of disregards cause/effect.
If all you accept are
smart kids then you will
have a 'good school' by
the measures the state
uses. That school may or
may not actually be better.
\_ You have never heard of Blackhawk? You
are just a troll, wasting my time.
\_ Blackhawk houses are all multi-
million bucks. That is hardly the
suburbs or a typical gated
community. Famous/rich sports
stars, actors, and the 'captains
of industry' live there. You're
welcome to try again.
\_ I sang at Behring's house last
Christmas. Good freakin' god.
30k sq. ft. is a LOT of room.
I think he's the only one
anywhere in Blackhawk that
actually knows how to spend his
wealth well. His gem and mineral
collection is incredible. He
has some stunning ivory carvings
in there as well. Haven't seen
his car museum yet, but it could
be fun.
\_ Blackhawk is not in the suburbs?
Where is it then?
\_ Mogadishu
\_ No, I never stated or implied that anyone
was "stealing" anything. That was your
emotionally charged response to my
suggestion that you are at least
partially responsible for creating the
kind of world you live in. When people
with intelligence, talent, drive and
creativity abandon a community, that
community suffers. One certainly has
the right to excercise your free will
and abandon it, but to do so and then
turn around and criticize that very
same community for the consequences of
your actions seems bizarre.
\_ the one thing berkeley taught me is you don't have to live
the boring, conformist, suburban life if you don't want to.
\_ What I always found hilarious about a lot of Berkeley students
is how uniquely concerned with being "nonconformist" so many of
them were, instead of just getting on with their lives. -John
\_ I agree, and not just Berkeley but the whole Bay Area.
OTOH, if you venture outside of Berkeley/Bay
OTOH, when you venture outside of Berkeley/Bay
Area after graduation, the experience at Berkeley is a
good thing, in my opinion.
\_ so you're living the same nonconformist life style everyone
else in the bay area is?
\_ don't feel offended. if you want to live the boring,
conformist, suburban life, you are free to do so.
\_ offended? no one is offended. quite the opposite. i
think your claims to kewlness are cute.
\_ "claims to kewlness"? what've you been smoking?
I live in a city derided in a movie, or so I heard,
as the suburb of suburbs.
\_ then what are you talking about?
\_ huh? what are you talking about?
\_ what are the two of you talking about?
\_ Ok, I've got to ask...what city do you live in? -!pp
\_ Must be LA.
\_ Or a suburb of chicago.
\_ My downstairs tenants do all the gardening for free. I have to
pay for things like plants and fertilizer, so it costs me about
$10/mo. I have had to have two bathrooms rebuilt since I bought
this place, which cost about $9k and took up at least three
weekends of my time. I paid people to do most of the work, but
I bought and delivered all the parts. I built a methlab in the
I bought and delivered all the parts. I built a shed in the
backyard from a kit, which cost me $500 and took up four weekends.
As for cleaning, I spend the same amount as I did when I had
an apartment, maybe a bit less, since my wife is less of a slob
than my roommates were. -ausman |
| 2005/10/22 [Uncategorized] UID:40226 Activity:nil |
10/22 Does anyone know what metal coathangers are typically made from?
\_ NO. MORE. WIRE. HANGERS!!!!
\_ I'm going to guess some sort of metal.
\_ My question was badly phrased. I meant "what kind of metal"?
Really I just want to know whether I can silver solder to them,
but I think I'll just try it tonight. I'll post the result if
anyone cares. |
| 2005/10/22-24 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:40227 Activity:nil |
10/22 How come .nofinger does not prevent people from getting my last login
remotely?
\_ Make sure fingerd has permission to access your home directory --
otherwise it can't see your .nofinger file. Try "chmod a+x ~".
\_ Can't reproduce. Sanity check: soda has a hacked up fingerd. Are
you trying to put a .nofinger somewhere else? |
| 2005/10/22-24 [Computer/SW/Editors/Vi, Computer/HW/Display] UID:40228 Activity:nil |
10/22 160 degree immersive display:
http://www.elumens.com/products/visionstation.html |
| 2005/10/22-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:40229 Activity:nil |
10/22 BMW building throwaway cars?
http://tinyurl.com/8fbp6
\_ Easy solution. Stop getting into accidents. |
| 2005/10/22-24 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:40230 Activity:nil |
10/22 I want to set up a Wiki site for users of a software framework, but
I'm concerned about security. Are there any Wiki engines that are
particularly good about security? Any good sites discussing this?
Thanks. - ciyer
\_ Not twiki.
\_ google for natswiki. It's a mod of twiki. |
| 2005/10/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:40231 Activity:nil |
10/23 http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/international/asia/23rumsfeld.html Rumsfeld visited Mongolia. I wonder if he flew through Russian or Chinese airspace. |
| 2005/10/22-24 [Uncategorized] UID:40232 Activity:nil |
10/22 "We will be greeted as liberators."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051022/ts_nm/iraq_britain_dc |