Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:October:21 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2005/10/21-22 [Finance/Banking] UID:40206 Activity:nil
10/20   It used to take ING Direct 3-4 business days for a transaction
        to go through (from bank to ING and the other way around). I just
        transfered and the ETA is now 5 business days (a whole week). Has
        anyone noticed this? I'm thinking about transfering everything to
        PayPal since their turnaround is still 3-4 business days and their
        interest rate is 3.76% instead of ING's 3.40%.
        \_ http://EmigrantDirect.com: 4.00%.  But it does take about the same
           time as ING.
2005/10/21-22 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:40207 Activity:kinda low
10/20   Two weeks ago my family and I went to check out a condo development.
        I took notes, did some research in the past 2 weeks and finally
        decided to call the exact same condo agent that helped me out to see
        if a particular unit is still available. It is still available,
        but to my surprise, she gave me a higher quote (by $15,000).  I asked
        her if the price changed, and she said no, price for condos didn't
        change for the past 2 weeks. She claimed that she was just reading
        the prices off of her spreadsheet. However, my family members and I
        specifically remember the original price, so either she made a mistake
        two weeks ago, or she's fucking with us. I'm pretty sure she's fucking
        around. Has anyone experienced something like this, or know someone
        who has experienced something like this?
        \_ Realtors are crooks.  Just buy from the builder directly.
           \_ I'm assuming op was talking to the builder realtor already.  Go
              to the builder instead.
        \_ Whether or not she's lying isn't important.  They raised prices
           and have the right to do so.  You were just one of dozens of people
           who came through that day and they're under no obligation to hold
           a price for you from 2 weeks earlier.  You now have the option of
           trying to negotiate it down, biting the bullet and paying up, or
           going elsewhere.
           \_ I have no problem with them raising the price. I have a
              problem when they lie to me with a straight face that
              the price didn't change when in fact they changed. I am
              not going back to that place, though it won't change
              anything anyways because they have hundreds of buyers
              waiting for condo units. Too bad. It's the only development
              with a tiny view of the ocean.
              \_ Welcome to the adult world.  People lie!  *gasp*  And realty
                 people lie even when they don't benefit from it *GASP*!  If
                 you want the thing, go make an offer, if you don't, skip it.
                 But not making an offer because some salaried bottom end
                 sales rep *gasp* *lied* to you with a straight face makes no
                 sense.  You had nothing in writing.  You hadn't put money down
                 to hold that price.  Maybe she just didn't remember.  She may
                 work in 5 different offices selling 30 different models.  And
                 hey, maybe *you* are the one who didn't remember after doing
                 all that house hunting.  Just go buy the damned thing since
                 you obviously want it so badly and are already emotionally
                 attached.
                 \_ He can even offer $15K less if he wants to. The price
                    is whatever the seller is willing to accept. By the
                    way, is this the difference between $50K and $65K or
                    $950K and $965K? If it's the Bay Area, I assume the
                    $15K won't even change the payment much.
2005/10/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:40208 Activity:kinda low
10/20   Dang, Korean support is still broken in Ubuntu.  The only good
        experience I've had with Korean and Linux was on Fedora Core 2,
        which was pretty much a bad experience in every OTHER way.
        -jrleek
        \_ not enough Korean vulenteer for open-source effort?
           \_ I really don't know.  I'm not in contact with any CSUA-
              style Korean super-nerds. I knew someone who went to an ITT
              tech style school, and she did stuff with Linux, but I'm not
              sure what version. -jrleek
        \_ I installed nabi in Ubuntu and everything worked fairly well for
           me 'cept for finding a sleek looking terminal that supports UTF
           (I use pekwm as window manager, so konsole didn't work too well.)
           I believe there are at least two wiki pages on the ubuntu wiki site
           that describes Korean support in ubuntu.
           \_ Really?  I didn't have much luck with it last night.  I did
              get it working with xterm, but it didn't seem to work for
              Firefox.  I'll look for those wiki pages, thanks.  (Most of
              the nabi docs I found were in Korean) -jrleek
              \_ But you can read Korean, though, can't you?  If I remember
                 correctly, the nabi website had a Korean version and English
                 version.  I think the Korean version had more details.  I'm
                 a total n00b to localization stuff and decided to try out
                 nabi after one of your motd posts made me want to try out
                 Korean localization.  Since I was a n00b and had no idea, I
                 went back and forth between the Korean and English pages.
                 \_ Yes, I can, but it's hard and I'm lazy.  Reading Linux
                    docs is often pretty hard anyway, adding the language
                    barrier doesn't help.  Thanks though.  NEVERMIND, I
                    finally got home and tried what it said on the wiki,
                    and it works great! Thanks a lot mystery man! -jrleek
        \_ you do know that Hangu Jamo is actually more challenging than
           the Chinese Han Characters in terms of render it on the screen?
           \_ Of course it is.  What's your point?
2005/10/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:40210 Activity:low
10/20   Re: the redistricting proposition. Prop 77.
        It's not a partial, non-biased redistricting.  It'll decrease
        the amount of seats urban areas get, while increasing rural
        representation.  Think districting based on land covered, rather
        than population.  This essentially means it will increase R
        representatives and decrease D representatives.  Arnold sends
        another wolf in sheeps' wool.
        http://csua.org/u/dsc (blog)
        OTOH, he later mentions a Cal study showing no apparent political
        bias effects to 77, but the study isn't released. (scroll up)  The
        Trib article he quotes mentions prof. Bruce Cain.  Anyone know of
        him?  His UCB bio shows he's very pro-redistricting.
        \_ why are they always pushing a magical retired panel of judges
           somewhere to plan redistricting?  what makes them so special?
           also the redistricting would be based on 5 year old census
           data.  there's a reason redistricting usually happens
           only immediately after each 10 year census, the data is considered
           to be the most accurate at that time. - danh
           \_ Also, first time around, the new plan goes into effect before
              we get to vote on it.  bull shite. --scotsman
        \_ Almost anything would have to better than the current system
           where the legislature chooses their voters, rather than the
           other way around. Just because DeLay jerrymandered Texas,
           doesn't mean the Democrats should do the same to CA. -ausman
           \_ I have yet to see evidence that the current map is
              gerrimandered.  In the BA, at least, the maps pretty much run
              along county or city grouping lines.  I don't think people
              voting their representatives back in necessarily means
              the game is rigged. --scotsman
              \_ It is definitely gerrymandered. I don't know about the
                 Bay Area, but it is apparent in LA. How it happened:
                 http://tinyurl.com/8vae2
2005/10/21-24 [Computer/Networking] UID:40211 Activity:nil
10/21   Do wireless DSL routers let me turn off the wireless function when I'm
        only using the wired connections at the moment?  Thx.
        \_ dunno about automatically determing whether or not you are using
           wired only, but then when is it *you* using the wireless and not
           some hacker/leecher.  Most of them have a 'disable wireless' option
           from the admin menu though.
        \_ Most do, some don't.  The Belkin I have at home does not.
        \_ Yes, get a WRT54G.
2005/10/21-24 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:40212 Activity:low
10/21   Used Lexus LS 430 year 2002, 74000 miles for $28000. Interior
        exterior look nice, seller is a friend. Good/bad deal?
        \_ Uh, 74K in 3-4 years?
        \_ Check http://www.kbb.com
             \_ it's around $27-29k depending on the condition of the car.
        \_ Not a great deal, IMO. The miles are too high. Same car with
           20K miles would be a decent deal. These cars don't cost more
           than $40K new.
           \_ This is a $55k new car.
              \_ Whoops! I confused the LS and the ES!
        \_ For that price, I would not buy a used car.
           \_ A new Toyota Avalon seems like a good "poor man's" replacement
              for a mid-sized Luxury vehicle in this price range.
           \_ Seconded. Why would you get a used Lexus w/ 74K miles
              when you could get a NEW Legacy GT for the same price?
                \_ Because The Lexus LS is one of the best luxury cars on the
                   market (Bill Gates drives one) and a Legacy GT is a Legacy
                   GT.
        \_ Sounds like a decent deal, assuming the 74000 miles are mostly
           highway miles.  Toyotas are very reliable and the Lexus LS series
           is one of the most reliable Toyotas.  Yes, it costs $55K new but
           once you add a few options, taxes, and other stuff the new car
           might cost closer to $70K.
           might cost closer to $70K.  Oh, and it is not very fuel efficient
           unless you compare it to an SUV.  It's a heavy, tank like car with
           a gigantic V8 engine.  It also has a serenely quiet drive, the
           best sonically insulated car I've ever driven.
           \_ 4.3 liters is not "gigantic" for a V8.
                \_ Okay, "a gigantic engine (V8)" happy?
                   \_ Hmm, I think I'd go with big over gigantic either way.
                      A 2.0L is smallish, 3.0 just is, 4.3 is big, 5.0 is
                      pretty huge, the 8.0L Dodge Viper V10 is gigantic.
                                                   --annoying pedant
                      \_ yea, but your 2 inch penis is still classified
                         as ... tiny.               - dumb troll
2005/10/21-24 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity, Finance/Investment] UID:40213 Activity:nil
10/21   Alan Greenspan translation for the average American is here:
        http://www.lewrockwell.com/thornton/thornton13.html
2005/10/21-24 [Science/Battery] UID:40214 Activity:nil
10/21   To extend the lifetime of your cell phone battery, is it better
        to leave them plugged in whenever possible, or to charge them only
        when absolutely necessary?
        \_ All the battery chatter I've heard so far is to not have it
           plugged in constantly but also not to let it drain completely.
        \_ For NiCd batterys, you are supposed to charge it fully when you
           charge it, and use it to empty before you charge it again.
           Otherwise it dies quickly.  That's called "memory effect" or
           something.  For NiMH and Li-ion batteries, supposedly you don't need
           to do that, but I do it anyway.
           \_ I've started seeing more manufacturer service advice suggesting
              to keep Li-ion on charge whenever possible, as the life is
              related to discharge cycle count and charge/discharge temperature
              (which goes up w/ current).  The main reason they aren't saying
              this outright is that customers would interpret this as being
              inconvenient.
2005/10/21-24 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:40215 Activity:nil
10/21   http://tinyurl.com/4ghvb
        16% of the houses in Vegas are bought as investments, followed
        by 15% Sac, and 13% Phoenix. Please don't cuss or delete this lafe.
        \_ I see no reason find your post at all offensive.  -lafe
        \_ I see no reason to find your post at all offensive.  -lafe
        \_ Who is lafe?
        \_ It says bay area construction permits are down -25% 99-04. I wonder
           if that's offset by more condo building.
2005/10/21-24 [Academia/Berkeley, Academia/GradSchool] UID:40216 Activity:low
10/21   Why does chemistry deserve its own college, while other science fields
        like physics, biology, CS, etc. are all cramped together in one college
        which also houses the arts fields?
        \_ I'm not really sure, but I'm betting on "historical reasons."
           \_ Cursory research indicates that the CoC was one of the early
              colleges. While some colleges (CivE, Mechanics, Mining, etc) have
              since combined into larger colleges such as the CoE, the CoC has
              never done so. It looks like the decision to merge was made by
              the various colleges, not by the university, so it's not like
              there was some sort of decree to merge down. Incidentally, UCB
              has 14 colleges/schools, so it's not like chem is the only small
              college on campus. -gm
        \_ Why does it matter?  I'd prefer my department not waste resources
           supporting an entire 'college' and instead share administrative
           and other non-academic duties with other fields leaving more time
           and resources for academics.  And isn't that what it is all about?
           What do you see having a "college" does for Chem students that
           'merely' being in a 'cramped' department with all those 'arts'
           people doesn't do for all those non-Chem students?  Of all the
           things I could bitch about my time at Cal, Chem having it's own
           College never came to mind.
           \_ I was in L&S, but I had a friend in Chemistry. It was much
              easier for him to deal with his college in all aspects. As
              you know, dealing with L&S is crazy. Even dealing with
              the College of Engineering (when I had to) was easier than
              L&S. L&S has so many students. The details are fuzzy, but I
              know that CoC provided services that L&S did not.
              \_ I agree that L&S was a busy place but you only need 2 things
                 to get anything you want from them: 1) you have to make
                 friends with any one guidance person/advisor and 2) you must
                 understand that any and every rule can be broken if someone
                 is willing to sign off on it; see item #1 above.
        \_ Berkeley is the only university in the U.S. to have a College of
           Chemistry.  It's for historical and political reasons.  Certainly
           in any sane organization, Chemistry would be under L&S.  -tom
           \_ What's the political reason please?
              \_ Once a unit has autonomy, it never wants to give it up.  -tom
        \_ College of CHemistry is number #1 in the world. so they get lots of
           money from the oil companies. - chemical engineer
           \_ Would they get less money if everything else was the same except
              they were under L&S?  Would CS get more if it was the College of
              CS?
        \_ Why does a Physics major get a BA while an Engineer get a BS?
           \_ Who cares?  Once you graduate you're either going some place that
              can spell "Berkeley" or you're not.  If you're not it won't
              matter which degree you have.  If they can spell it, they already
              know the program and understand and don't care.
           \_ Traditionally, I think it was Trade vs. Knowledge.
           \_ What's worse is that a Computer *Science* major gets an AB while
              a Business Admin major gets a BS.
              \_ "BS" is appropriate.
                 \_ lol!
                    \_ aol
2005/10/21-24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40217 Activity:nil
10/21   "France Orders Positive Spin on Colonialism"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051021/ap_on_re_eu/france_gilding_history
        Japan is not alone.
        \_ It's ok as long as you're the doing it.
           \_ Huh?
        \_ you didn't know that until now?  60 years ago, as soon as they
           were liberated by the Allied Force, they went ahead re-occupies
           Algeria and "Indochina."
2005/10/21-24 [Academia, Academia/GradSchool] UID:40218 Activity:kinda low
10/21   http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051021/od_nm/heiress_dc
        WalMart heiress Paige, a former USC student paid money for
        her term papers and other assignments. She voluntarily
        surrendered her USC college degree after allegations.
        The Walton family could not be reached for comment.
        Oh well, at least she went to school, unlike Paris.
        \_ My high school math teacher went to USC, and paid his way by
           writing papers for the basketball team.
        \_ Paris is too busy starring in her own porn video production.
        \_ Ha this is funny.  So if you have 2 bums and one bum walks into
           a library and guns everyone down, you'd say "Well at least that
           bum has been in a library".  The implication that going to
           school and cheating like crazy is somehow more honorable than not
           going at all is amusing.
           \_ Ostensibly, one goes to college to *learn*.  The degree is only
              a certifcation that you learned something on a particular
              curriculum.  There is no degree for some of the more important
              things one learns in college...
                \_ If someone writes all of your papers for you then the only
                   thing you have learned is how to pay someone to write all
                   of your papers for you.
                   \_ But that's one useful skill for climbing the management
                      ladder.
                      \_ Outsourcing ...?
           \_ Haven't you heard of the osmosis theory of learning?
        \_ What about exchanging sexual favors for term papers? Is that
           considered unethical?
                \_ Depends on how hot the term paper receiver is.
        \_ This seems vaguely appropriate:
           http://www.unshelved.com/archive.aspx?strip=20051022
2005/10/21-24 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:40219 Activity:high
10/21   jblack hasn't posted for a few weeks. I want to congratulate
        all the conservative haters who successfully got rid of
        conservative sympathizing trollers like amckee and jblack.
                -not the guy who threatened jblack but supports him 100%
        \_ Motd would be rendered almost completely useless as a place for
           political discussion if all of the conservative thinkers leave
           so only extremist liberal thinkers are left to echo the same
           ideas back forth to each other.  "getting rid" of people because
           they have different ideas that challenge you is at best
           cowardly, and at worst destructive of the entire notion of
           liberty and free speech.  If you can't handle the strain of being
           forced to re-evaluate your ideas, perhaps it would be better for
           everyone if you left and looked for the little ideolgical womb
           that will challenge you the least -- at least that's less
           destructive, since you can always come back at a later date.
           \_ "Conservative Thinker" is an oxymoron. It makes as much
              sense as Brilliant Bush or Justified Iraq War.
              \_ So George Will and William F. Buckley don't think?
                 \- serious question: can you give and example of a
                    WFB's brilliance? other than his fondness for
                    words like "debouche". i think WJC is probably
                    50x smarter than WFB.
                    \_ I used to watch WFB on Firing Line(?) debates
                       on pbs. He seemed very knowledgeable. Those
                       two were just examples. I'd also list Friedman,
                       Posner, Scalia, &c. as other examples.
                       One may not agree w/ them but they certainly
                       are intelligent thoughtful people.
                       \_ [idiocy deleted by poster out of deep shame]
                       \_ Thomas Friedman is a conservative?  I think not.
                          If he's a conservative, then so am I, and I am
                          *not* a conservative.
                          \_ Milton not Thomas. I'm talking about
                             intelligent people not NY Times col-
                             umnists.
                          \- aside from scalia, i think some of your
                          \- aside from SCALIA, i think some of your
                             conservative thinkers are either 1. not thinkers
                             or 2. not conservative. you might looks at people
                             like L STRAUSS (dead) H MANSFIELD R KAGAN
                             M MALIA (ucb, dead ... he is the "the the stalin
                             like L STRAUSS (dead) H MANSFIELD D KAGAN
                             M MALIA (ucb, dead ... he is the "to the stalin
                             mausoleum" fellow). i do not list economists.
                             i think somebody like C HITCHENS would eat
                             W BUCKLEY alive in a live debate. you can google
                             for "chicago school". i think libertarians take
                             "theory and thinking" more seriously than
                             conservatives. oh i suppose M P CATO is also
                             conservative and maybe MICAHEL OAKSHOTT (dead).
                             conservative and maybe MICHAEL OAKSHOTT (dead).
                             \_ What about Greenspan?
                                \_ Are you sure you don't mean GREENSPAN?
                                \_ Are you sure you don't mean A GREENSPAN?
                                \- i am not sure what to make of GREENSPAN.
                                   on the one hand, i think FED HEAD is one of
                                   the toughest jobs in government [sic]
                                   and he has done a pretty good job, on the
                                   othe hand he is a (former?) RANDROID which
                                   is an infanitile and obviously not serious
                                   philosophy. BTW, there are plenty of smart
                                   people who arent "broad thinkers"
                                   ... FREIDMAN's Beiruit To Jerusalem is
                                   really good and is in his core competencey
                                   area. when he writes on econ, i think he
                                   latches on to interesting issues but i
                                   dont think he is a deep thinker in the
                                   area [like his flat earth book]. on the
                                   other hand CHITCHEN has some whacky views
                                   on the war but he is also able to write at
                                   a fairly scholarly level about
                                   ORWELL. POSNER writes on lots on things
                                   [although an associate of mine says he LAW
                                   and LIT stuff is leem].  i suppose even
                                   GEROGE WILL writes about baseball,
                                   although i am not able to evaluate his
                                   comments in that area and i am not sure
                                   whether sports writing is really fertile
                                   for deep commentary ... PAULINE KAEL and
                                   MFK FISCHER may be among the best in their
                                   repective fields of film and food
                                   commentary but i dontthink they are among
                                   the towering thinkers of our time ... so
                                   i'm not dissing sports in particular.
                             \_ I have read Kagan (Paradise and Power) and
                                would add him to the list. Personally I
                                agree that most conservatives don't spend
                                as much time sitting around thinking about
                                useless crap b/c they would much rather be
                                out in the real world doing something.
                                Maybe liberals do think more better deeper.
                                I wasn't disputing that, only pointing out
                                that there are some people who are conser-
                                vative and engage in thinking. I think that
                                the people I've listed generally fall w/in
                                the popular conception of conservative.
                                \- oh sorry, i meant KAGAN pere ... DKAGAN
                                   not RKAGAN. fixed above. i am not taking a
                                   postion on whether there are more
                                   conservative thinkers etc. although i
                                   think it may be a case of theoretical
                                   parisomony not being as important to
                                   results oritented conservatives. so dont
                                   oversubscribe my comments as an attack.
                                   i have to go out in teh real world now
                                   rather than motd'ing about useless crap.
                                   [has "to motd" been used as a verb before?]
                                   i have put my tutleneck on backwards.
                                   in the legal field maybe conservatives are
                                   more interested in parsimony than liberals.
           \_ Who here, in your mind, are the "extremist" liberals?
              For that matter, who are the conservative "thinkers"?
              \_ The guys "getting rid" of vocal conservative thinkers, for
                 starters.
        \_ I assume you are being sarcastic. Running off people who
           disagree with you, instead of responding to their ideas,
           is a really crappy way of debating. The motd is a lot more
           boring without the few beleaguered Conservatives. -ausman
           \_ Ideas? Debate?  Are we talking about the same guy?  There are
              several, probably about half a dozen or more conservatives who
              actually post ideas and debate on the motd, and as far as I can
              tell, the troll in question is not one of them.  I don't see
              how posting the same urls over and over again constitutes either
              "ideas" or "debate".  Fuck him, good riddance.  The conservatives
              who post actual thoughts to the motd have much tougher skin
              than that anyway, as evidenced by the fact that they're still
              here.
              \_ Huh.  I recall alot of those url's generating very long
                 threads of discussion (which sometimes crossed the line into
                 troll and countertroll), quite a lot of which was elucidating
                 in terms of non-rabidly left ideas.  Maybe it's not the url
                 guy that has the thin skin, here....
              \_ Do you really think that his posting of Freeper links
                 was pursuading anyone of anything? "Never interrupt your
                 opponent when he is making a mistake."
                 opponent when he is making a mistake." -ausman
                 \_ Uhm, who are you responding to?  I suspect your indentation
                    is wrong.
                    \_ No my indentation was correct. I should have signed
                       my post. I think that letting jblack make his case
                       actually helped do the opposite. -ausman
                       \_ Ah, okay -- sorry, my bad.  Well, no jblack himself
                       \_ Ah, okay -- sorry, my bad.  Well, no jblack
                          probably didn't convince anybody, but some of his
                          links generated discussion which may have forced
                          some people to refine or rethink their positions.
                          The point isn't about jblack, but about promoting
                          a place where you can have strong opinions and not
                          worry about getting physically, financially, or
                          in any way injured.  It speaks poorly of motd that
                          we're just as tolerant of differing opinions as
                          the deplorable freepers in the freeper links.
                          a place where you can have strong opinions and
                          not worry about getting physically, financially,
                          or in any way injured.  It speaks poorly of motd
                          that we're just as tolerant of differing opinions
                          as the deplorable freepers in the freeper links.
                          *shrug* --!"Ideas? Debate?" guy
                          \_ "Ideas? Debate?" guy here.  For the record I think
                             the threats were stupid and wrong and far more
                             offensive than any freeper link.  I don't
                             *support* threats, and I'm not the op--I just have
                             a hard time shedding a tear over this particular
                             change even if it happened for stupid reasons.
        \_ If you can't take the heat, blame Clinton and whine incessantly.
2005/10/21-24 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:40220 Activity:nil
10/21   http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20051020/ts_latimes/iwilleatyourdollars
        Extremely complex Nigerian corporations working hard for your money.
2005/10/21-24 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Recreation/Media] UID:40221 Activity:nil
10/21   So, is anyone going to go see Doom?
        \_ Maybe on DVD.  My freshman year at Cal ('94-'95) we used to
           talk all the time about the rumors that someone was creating
           a Doom movie.  I can't believe how bad it looks after all
           these years of thinking about it.
           \_ Wait, do you mean you have some idea on how a Doom movie
              could be good?
              \_ Heh, good point.  Well, at least I wouldn't shoot the
                 film in fps format.  That looks ridiculous.
                 \_ Umm, actually according to the "Rock" on the Daily Show
                    last night, some scenes ARE shot that way.
                    \_ Umm, that was his point.
        \_ oh gawd, the trailer was painful
        \_ My favorite critic line on Doom is "It's Aliens for dummies"
           \_ "The only downside is that you can't use cheat codes to
              reach the end of the movie."
        \_ WorldNetDaily thinks that Doom is anti-military, anti-
           Christian and neo-nazi:
           http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46980
           \_ Wow.  I was on the fence, but now I'm going to have to go see
              a matinee tomorrow.
2005/10/21-24 [Uncategorized] UID:40222 Activity:nil
10/21   Any recommendations on places in the east bay regional parks
        areas to hike 2-3 miles? thx.
        \_ I have a number, but some are lengthy to describe.  Drop into #csua
           if you're interested.  --dbushong
2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:October:21 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>