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| 2005/10/15 [Uncategorized] UID:40102 Activity:nil |
*/* TREVOR! |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40103 Activity:kinda low |
10/15 Whatever happens with the motd debate, someone made a point below
that I hope doesn't get lost:
" If you get nothing else out of your time at Berkeley, get this:
networking is more important than your gpa, major, or anything else. "
I just wanted to put this up as a really valuable piece of advice, and
I hope undergrads take it to heart. If you're going into "the real
world", this is very true most of the time. -John
\_ Thanks. --Wrote that anon but since it was anon it must be a troll
and should be dismissed out of hand. ;-)
\_ Out of the four jobs I've had in the last 8 years, all of them were
at least partly attributable to networking. -mice
\_ This is true. I got my excellent first job thanks to networking,
and I got 2 sodans jobs because I knew them. -eric
\_ yeah. I've gotten every job I've had because of networking,
and most of my freelancing work comes from soda or ex-coworker
contacts. I wish I'd known this when I was in college, I
would have done things a lot differently, i.e. going to
professor office hours starting my freshman year, going to
more student events, etc. |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40104 Activity:nil |
10/15 Here is a proposal, a compromise for both parties. Split
/etc/motd.public into two files-- one is /etc/motd.civil
which is logged and viewable by root only, and is viewed in
default .login. The other one is /etc/motd.wild, which is
unlogged and is pretty much like our current motd.
\_ The problem with this "solution" is that it does not fix
the problem of threats, slander, etc, from the point of
view of the politburo. They are still responsible for
hosting it. -ausman
\_ Your welcome to create ~user/cesspool.motd if you really want a
place where you can be threatened at will by anyone. Root will
not breach the anonimity of the logs unless there is a specific
post which requires it. -mrauser
\_ I have a better idea. We'll have one file called /etc/motd.public
which is an open forum for discussing politics, fundamental
computer science, the computer industry, general science, sex,
and the meanining of life in a lively, free form, while also
posting timely links about current events and giving recent grads
a leg up on their careers. Then we'll have another file called
/etc/motd.jamf, where a small group of people can have a
carefully logged and moderated discussion of vi/EMACS, the
latest linux kernel and monty python. Anyone who mentions
politics, sex, violence, industry, uses a swear word, or says
anything remotely useful or interesting on /etc/motd.jamf
will recieve a demerit. Three demerits will banish them forever
from /etc/motd.jamf. |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:40105 Activity:kinda low |
10/15 feeling nostalgic. who remembers Wall Berlin? -jon (+24 hours)
\_ I remember the Berlin Wall.
\_ aww. I miss Wall Berlin. |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40106 Activity:moderate |
10/15 psb: At least two out of five Politburo members are ... well,
just being undergrads. They're trying, but surely you didn't expect
anything more?
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA
\- 1. it may be unfair to tar the entire pburo
with the mckee brush. i wonder which pburo
member voted against the madness?
2. i am not sure they are "trying".
see e.g. "I honestly couldn't possibly care less about
people complaining of losing anonymity ..." -amckee
[home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/7.not-a-democracy]
[http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/7.not-a-democracy]
in case you believe i am "quoting out of context"
it was unfortune the rationale for deanonymizing
the motd was not more clearly stated and various
issues got entangled [such as the liability issue
and the unwelcoming environment/participation issue]
but the the csua president can justly be taken to
task for framing it in these adventitious terms
and attacking the out-to-lunch, spoiled, overly-
indulged, narrow-minded, self-interested alumni.
3. so i dont expect overly deep thinking about
say free speech in the abstract, but crazy stuff
like "psb is a notorious spammer and hoser for
mailing the csua mailing list about a political
matter" seems just nuts. deeper into some of the
threads on the web directory above, you cant
help speculate what it would be like to have
ms. mckee as a colleague. i wonder if ms mckee is
a famous turntablist/bboy?
\- And I can't even imagine what it must be like to work
with someone so obviously disconnected from reality
and rational thinking. Yes, making the MOTD trackable
is MADNESS. Crazy! OoOOooH! Halloween! Bats! Scary shit!
Are you even capable of perspective? I'm afraid you're
the one that sounds 'out to lunch'. But please, feel
free to libel me. I'd love nothing more than than have
an excuse to remove you on sufficient 'legal' grounds
to make even you happy. =) Have a nice day, I'm done
with talking to you ms. banerjee. I'm sure your friends
over at slashdot could use some of your attention.
\- you know, i probably read slashdot less
than 95% of the people reading this.
isnt ./ sort of focused on AssOS?
\- Well, I began to wonder about this when you wrote:
"[mrauser]s more level headed and egalitarian than
I am. My opinion is much more admittedly
draconian. I'm used to being a corporate manager
and overseeing teams of 30+ engineers scattered
across the world. That doesn't exactly work with
the consensus view of management, so I go for
autocratic. (It's okay, you can say it, I'm used
to being the resident asshole on the team - but at
least shit gets done.)"
[again, context is at:
home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/7.not-a-democracy]
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/7.not-a-democracy]
BTW, I appreciate your letting me quote this thread.
It makes things much easier. |
| 2005/10/15 [Politics/Foreign, Recreation/Humor] UID:40107 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto |
10/14 Another Jib Jab on foreign imports and outsourcing:
http://www.jibjab.com/Movies/MoviePlayer.aspx?contentid=122
\_ keywords: Walmart BoxMart Box Mart |
| 2005/10/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40108 Activity:nil |
10/14 Many thanks to jrleek for being the catalyst for creating a
brand new era of CSUA.
\_ 2nd that. jrleek is a good man.
\_ Now lets go invade a University that had nothing to do with the
motd.
\- this is a politburo decision. do you blame PAT or BUSHCO
for the state of the country? [choosing the appropriate PAT
is left as a limited degree of freedom]. --psb |
| 2005/10/15 [Uncategorized] UID:40109 Activity:nil |
10/14 Another video of cool art. (cg this time)
http://www.1st-ave-machine.com/video/anime_final.htm |
| 2005/10/15 [Uncategorized] UID:40110 Activity:nil |
10/14 Anyone here a member of LA fitness? I'm trying to decide
whether to join or not. I'm up in the Seattle area and they're
opening up a new one with a pool. |
| 2005/10/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40111 Activity:nil |
10/14 Michael Rauser <mrauser@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote on csua@csua
: I apologise for the recent spam to csua@csua. It is intended as a news
: mailing list (minutes, official announcements, etc.) and not as a
: discussion forum. I have altered the list to make it moderated, requiring
: posts to be approved before going out to the full list.
\_ This is a marked and until now unannounced change in the nature
of csua@csua. When was advance notice given of this change of
csua@csua to a moderated list? --Jon
\_ The ua part of the 'csua' title means that the undergrads
don't need to get permission from alum for everything.
--darin
\_ "It's [the CSUA] not a democracy. We're democratically
elected, but once in office we have near complete
authority to implement the policies that we see
fit. Think communist russia ..." -amckee, CSUA President
\_ and if it's not obvious, the above was not posted
by me and was taken out of context. thx psb. -amckee
\_ Could you explain how the quote was taken out of
context?
\_ This is the organization that was left to us by our
faithful alumni. We do not have a congress, a judiciary
system, or any vestiges of democracy within the typical
power structure. Quite honestly, I'm not aware of any
student group here that's run differently. At some
point in the past, the CSUA was your organization to
run and shape as you saw fit. I'm sure you each had
issues that you felt were important to deal with,
things that needed to be chanrged relative to
tradition, and so forth. I'm sure each of you also
would have resented it had a group of people who have
no awareness of the current organization's culture and
needs kept expecting deferrence to their ideas and
beliefs about how the organization should be run. The
students, at some point, trusted you to run the
organization to the best of your abilities. Right now,
the students trust us to do that. We may fuck up, we
may piss people off, but these are our mistakes to make
- just like they were yours, at one point. We care
about the alumni community and feel that they
contribute a lot that is valuable to the CSUA, but our
charter is clearly the service of current
undergraduates. We would love to make alumni happy, but
as i'm sure each of you can see from these threads,
that's obviously impossible. In the end, we will always
chose the path that we think is in the best interest of
current students. I'm sure you each would have expected
the same, when you were students. As it is, this server
is barely utilized by current students. This issue has
comprised probably 50+ manhours of politburo time -
time that has directly detracted from what we could
have been doing to help out current students. We
continue to spend thousands of dollars on this
hardware, when the main reason it needs upgrading is to
cater to the ever growing alumni ranks. The donations,
sadly, are a far way from making this environment
self-supporting. Quite simply, this whole server
infrastructure costs this organization more in terms of
time and money than current students reap from it.
Again, we do care to keep a close alumni community, but
a bit more appreciation of the efforts we go to would
also be nice. And a bit of understanding that, this
really is -our- organization right now, to make better
or to fuck up, as it once was yours. We welcome your
insight, but we really resent the sense of entitlement
that many of you think we owe you. That alumni have
accounts here is at the generosity of the CSUA, and
directly against UC Berkeley policies. There is no
current desire to change this generosity, but a bit of
perspective on your part would be nice. We don't owe
you explanations of changes we make to our boxes, we
don't need need to justify every decision we make. When
we do, it's because we value your insight and wisdom,
but don't expect it to be binding. I know many of you
disagree strongly with our choices, but the students
have entrusted us to shepherd this organization and you
just have to trust that we have the best interests of
the CSUA at heart, even if you disagree with our
actions. -amckee
\_ Ok uhm yeah. So anyway, if the ever growing ranks of
alums are a burden, how about just booting them all?
If the number of current students is low, how much
active recruiting does the CSUA do these days? Do
they still do donut runs at project times? Sponsor
and advertise tournament events? Go into freshman
classes at the start of each semester and tell the
gathered hordes the CSUA exists and why they should
join? And once these people join, well, uhm, to be
blunt, what do they get from the CSUA anyway? I see
two things from out here in alum-land: fantastic
tech help/tips from top notch industry pros from a wide
variety of fields and access to jobs they'd otherwise
never hear about, much less skip HR and go straight to
a hiring manager. Passion is good. Directed passion
is better. I assume everyone gave some pretty speach
prior to being elected to politburo full of promises.
Did any of that stuff happen? Mission accomplished?
Honestly, I don't actually really care all that much
about any of this stuff but let's get some perspective.
\_ Yes, we do donut runs (as do other groups now),
yes we go into classes at the start of the term,
yes we do helpsessions and shill our name, and
yes the ranks are still low. The current breed of
CS student is unlike what you were used to - many
are completely apathetic about student groups,
many don't identify as CS nerds, and many haven't
even watched Monty Python. It's a mainstream
field now and the people here have a lot less in
common than the CS nerds did when I was younger
(I'm 30 and started with this whole internet/cs
stuff over 20 years ago) I do not doubt at all
\_ Are you related to
Trevor J. Buckingham?
that students -could- leverage a lot from alumni,
but right now they don't. They don't read motd,
they don't really use Soda, and mostly they just
come to our free food events. It's a problem that
many politburos recently have had to face. We
welcome suggestions, of course, but things are
definitely different than they used to be. People
join now to hang out on our couches, use our
office/lab machines, and make friends. I'm trying
to bring in more speakers (hopefully some alumni)
to try and give various talks. Hell, maybe a
panel of people that graduated 10 years ago could
come back and talk about life after
Berkeley. Right now, though, none of this whole
mess that we call Soda or MOTD is much of a
benefit to current students. And, quite frankly,
that's unlikely to change. It's just no longer
the sort of service that is necessary. The entire
login service could go away, and most people here
would never even notice. No, there are no plans
to do so, but when the politburo looks at things
to put its attention and money into, the minimal
value this -currently- offers students is a
factor. And jobs typically come into jobs@
now. Our current focus is much more on
face-to-face services, since that's the only
thing that seems of value to people now,
anyways. -amckee
\_ Whoa! I've seen what's coming into jobs@. That
is not at all the same as real jobs. An
announcement from some consultancy that they're
recruiting is *nothing* like having an alum
hand your resume to someone and say "hire this
person". If you get nothing else out of your
time at Berkeley, get this: networking is more
important than your gpa, major, or anything else.
And yes, it's true I haven't set foot in years
and I'm out of touch, but if politburo is so
in touch and active then why can't they get
other students interested? This has nothing to
do with Monty Python. I'm not even sure why
you mention that. shrug.
\_ How much more donation do you need? There is no
information as to how much is needed, how much has
been donated, what the money was spent on, etc.
No detailed accounting is being asked for here, just
a rough breakdown. Otherwise, how would we know
how much to donate. - soda donor
\_ I know I'm going to get flamed by mrauser for saying
this, but the largest issues facing the CSUA right
now are not cash related. What we need more than
money is a way to get students more involved with
their school and major, to introduce them to better
coding practices and non-academic technologies, to
provide tutoring and help to a breed of students that
may never have seen a command line - on UNIX or
Windows. Basically, we need to help build a community
of current students that is as vibrant as what those
who used to be here knew. (I still think we can do it
while acting professional and mature, but enough of
that.) I don't have the specific budget in front of
me for last year, but we requested something like
$4000 last year in hardware expenses (but received
less) and around $1000 this year (which we
received). Although the money is important and does
make it easier to buy random upgrades or components,
the bigger need is just 'more time'. New Soda has
been largely held up due to lack of this precious
resource, not cash. And, since so few current
students use this resource, it's hard to justify
spending too much time on it (for those of us in
pburo), when we could use this time to try and
coordinate speakers, corporate info-sessions,
help-sessions, etc. The better donation, in all
honest, is the wisdom, time, and insight that each of
you have - whether it's to help the root staff debug
an issue, come talk to the students about a topic
either technical or pragmatic, or basically help
foster a sense of community outside of the insular
confines of Soda and the MOTD. There hasn't been a
lot that we haven't been able to do, due to lack of
cash, but there has been a lot that we haven't been
able to do, due to lack of time. Hence the
proposition to -slightly- expand the size of the
politburo. But, to keep mrauser from killing me, we
love cash too. (cough) - amckee
\_ I had a longer post, but I suspect it was wasted
breath, so I rescued some precious motd bits. -mice
\- ms amckee suggests i did not provide sufficient
context. pls see
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA
for fuller context. "by my words you will know me".
it is odd to see the motd discussion turn into an
alumni issue. |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Uncategorized] UID:40112 Activity:nil |
10/15 My CD collection has become a bit unwieldly. Can anyone point me to
somewhere where I can buy labeled dividers "A" "B" .. "C" "Classical"
"Soundtracks" or ones where I can label them myself if given some of
these dividers. I tried googling but I'm not sure what to look for
exactly. -eric
\- do you have any of the casals perpigan or prades recordings? |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40113 Activity:low |
10/16 So when do we start the underground rebel motd?
\_ http://csua.org/motd ? |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40114 Activity:high |
10/16 Dear fellow working alumni. I have begun circulating a negative
networking blacklist in my company. I am making sure amckee does
not get hired. I work at Intel Corporation and I've passed the
list to my friends some who work at Yahoo and Google. They've also
begun circulating it to the HR depts in other companies as well,
including the less well know companies. Please circulate the list
throughout Silicon Valley and tell me which companies you've passed
the list to. thx. -alum of 1990, Intel Verification, SC
\_ I left Intel in 99 as an Eng7, at the age of 24, ranked
Critical Intel Asset. I'm sure your opinion, however, is
Critical Intel Asshat. I'm sure your opinion, however, is
equally valid. -amckee
\_ Hey! tjb's back! -geordan
\_ wow, intel verification AND head of HR. impressive. (not amckee)
\_ This is the reason that brett was temporarily sorried. We will
be discussing the issue on Monday. The decision will be at the
discretion of the full politburo, not just me. As much as you
may disagree with my opinions, this grossly oversteps what is
an acceptable response to having such a difference of opinion.
I'm less concerned with the affect that this has on me, my
resume speaks for itself, but most politburo are just undergrads,
CS students who just signed up to have fun and learn a bit about
running a group. They should never feel that, should they try
to implement a controversial decision, that they could be
subjected to such a grossly intimidating and caustic repurcussion.
This may be acceptable in 'real politics', but we're just students,
and this is just a student organization. The palor of fear that
this will cast over politburo will prevent it from enacting
decisions that may be necessary for its survival, however
controversial. Should students know that this might happen,
the even worse affect is that it might prevent them from even
joining the ranks of politburo. This action very realistically
threatens the success of the organization and the stability
of the politburo. We are not a full political body, we are
not your senators, your representatives, or your president. We
should never have to deal with this level of intimidation. Call
it censorship, call it draconian, call it what you will - but
we live in an insular world and these are not things that most
students should have to face. -amckee
\_ Anyone making a serious squish decision based on an external
web site, esp. one that is known to be sucky, is an idiot.
\_ it looks like you've been successfully trolled.
\_ Those with an opinion on this matter, or any matter, are always
welcome to attend politburo meetings. We give more weight to
the concerns of current students, admittedly, but we will take
your insight into consideration. Many of you have faced problems
similar to the ones we've faced, and constructive feedback and
wisdom is always welcome. For those that have a personal problem
with me, the appropriate way to deal with that is by talking to
me. I suspect our differences are not nearly as great as
the emotion of this motd indicates. Sorry for being long again,
John. -amckee
\_ I don't think John's point is about length but more to do with
succintness. -mice
\_ Upon speaking with Brett, this is not attributable to him. kchang's
logs were wrong, probably not an uncommon occurance. Part of why
I had not brought this to the MOTD was that I wanted to hear
from Brett. However, someone else felt it important to mention here.
I have unsorried him and am sorry for any inconvenience. However,
as a point of clarification for whomever did post this, the damage
you felt that I may have done to the CSUA is far diminished by the
extent of your actions. I'll only be in office for another couple
months, and other officers may have different opinions. However,
the real 'cultural shift' in the CSUA is now almost certainly
attributable to you. If your goal was to supress dissent, to coerce
agreement, and to bully your view into an organization that you
are no longer a part of - you have likely succeeded. Politburo
may no longer feel comfortable enacting certain decisions. At a
minimum, we now know better than to try and explain ourselves
and our views, as it just opens us up to personal attacks and
retribution. This will be the last post I make to the MOTD, it's
\_ Can I have your stuff? -geordan
just not worth it to me to fight with you. I fully welcome
the insight and opinions people have about how we're running this
organization, but it will be more effective if you can come to
a meeting or email us. This has turned into a gossip-fueled hate
fest, and right now I feel pretty ashamed to have anything to do
with this organization. The optimism I had in trying to find ways
to make student's lives here a bit better is rapidly fading, and
if all that's going to happen is that they're going to grow up
into people anything at all like the minority of you who have
made this such an evil place, then I just don't see the purpose.
Good luck with your MOTD. -amckee
\_ Haven't you threatened to sorry people because of their
emails to politburo? That sucks.
\_ For the record, I did not write the above posting. -brett
\_ He did (or "didn't do" as it turns out) something so horrible it
was necessary to sorry him before getting his side of the story?
\_ Man, amckee is serious about this sorry business. He
threatened to sorry me when he thought I quoted his infamous
self-portrayal as "resident foobar". BTW, it's not likely
I'll be in a position to hire amckee (I don't hire sw guys
in general, though I might for dv I suppose), but I would
certainly advise against hiring if his name crossed my desk.
From my personal dealings with him (just one logged write
conversation, to be fair), he seems to have problems
controling his temper and he's probably a pain to work
with. - tse
\_ Wow, this is really lame. Whomever did post it needs to get a
brain. I mean, are you trying to force motd logging? --PM
\_ PM: I think the actual lesson here is different. I bet many
people are silently thinking "I would not want to hire this
guy based on his writings" without putting those thoughts into
the MOTD. And this the the guy who wants us to "trust him"
over the judicious use of the anonymity logs?
\_ Well, amckee is trying to portray this as alums threatening
the politburo, but I think it's just amckee. There's enough
from MOTD and from his emails to hang him.
\_ What triggered amckee's temper tantrum? Just Partha's
ramblings?
\_ I'd bet dollars to donuts that's *exactly* what OP is trying to
do. |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Recreation/Humor] UID:40115 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto |
10/16 10 steps to becoming Republican:
http://www.thefrown.com/player.php?/frowners/becomerepublican |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Science] UID:40116 Activity:low |
10/15 Can anyone recommend an author for a reader who likes Michael
Crichton and Dan Brown (i.e. page turners that are based in
science/technology). I don't care what you think of either of
these two authors in terms of quality; rather I'm just looking
for a similar author. thanks.
\_ How about Neil Stephenson?
\_ Well, for me, "page turner based on science/technology" is
synonymous with Neal Stephenson, but not everyone finds his
stuff to be page turners. You have been warned.
\_ Iain M. Banks (his scifi stuff.) I haven't read anything by Dan
Brown, but I got annoyed by Michael Crichton stuff for being
repetitive a while ago. Also you might enjoy the Hyperion series
by Dan Simmons. -John
\_ Nothing by Dan Brown is based on anything.
\- at all costs, do not read "Rule of Four" ... people who bought that
book should be able to file a class action shuit for their time
and money. it's so horrible you have to wonder if the authors
are well connected or there is some other unnatural explanation
of why that book was published and so heavily promoted after
da vinci code. note: it's not a "techno thriller". --psb |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack] UID:40117 Activity:nil |
10/15 Isn't it weird that jblack has been really quiet in the past few days?
Boy, I can't wait till they implement user-tracking. It'll be
a conservative jblack troll paradise! Go conservative motd!
\_ What you say makes very little sense for several reasons. |
| 11/22 |