10/2 Do hybrids really save any money?
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000233061415
\_ err... this is well known fact. Even Toyota is admiting that.
*BUT* I think there is a big psychological factor which you
need to taken into account. While Hybrid's price premium is a
one-time deal, you do get Gas every week or two. Save a bit of
money on weekly basis does mount to this 'feel good' factor.
Toyota know this won't last long that is why it is pushing
hybrid to every model they got out there, hoping that economy of
scale will eventually drive the price down.
\_ Is it fair to compare a Prius and a low-end non-hybrid Civic?
Buying the crappy Civic will definitely save you money, duh.
Anyway, someone posted a comparison between a Civic and a 50 MPG
hybrid Civic and you break even at 45K miles.
\_ Some people also care about conserving oil besides saving money, be
it enviromental or political reason.
\_ Is the purchase price difference between a Prius and the comparable
non-hybrid $8K?
\_ it is easier to blame China for it.
\_ Why do you care about this? Do you think some people buying
hybrids will make a significant impact on the global oil market?
Please justify. (Plus, hybrids don't always get the advertised
mpg, especially for sustained highway driving, and probably cost
more energy to produce.) I think clean diesel technology makes
more sense right now as it has virtually no extra cost or
practicality sacrifices.
\_ Gasoline-only vehicles don't always get the advertised mpg
either. Same thing.
\_ It's clear that hybrids are making an impact. Toyota
alone is spending billions on this and other technologies
as a result of consumer demand. The effect now is small,
but it is growing.
\_ It does cost more energy to produce the batteries, motor, and
the regenerative brakes, but it costs less energy to produce
the smaller engine, smaller frictional brakes, and maybe
smaller fuel tank which somewhat offsets the difference.
Anyway, I'm guessing that the extra energy needed to produce
hybrids are far less than the energy it saves during
operation.
\_ Gasoline vehicles don't always get the advertised mpg either.
either.
\_ Especially not if you consider that the batteries wear out and
need to be replaced at a cost around $20k. The price per mile
is higher than a conventional car.
\_ Where did you get your figure? Toyota's warranty for the
Prius battery (for California) is 150K/10years. Some guy
used the Prius as a Taxi and got over 250K on it. The cost
to replace the battery is more like $4-$5K. Heck, at
150K mileage, I would just junk the car. When is the last
time you kept your car over 150K/10year?
\_ Every car I've ever owned, although the first 2 were already
pretty far along by the time I got them. I hope my current
lasts 20 years.
\_ No kidding. I keep my cars that long, too. When do
you finally give up on them? I pretty much drive
them until they need a major repair (e.g. head
gasket blows).
\_ First car: 1973 Datsun 510, can't remember the mileage
Got rid of it around 1991 when I was a starving
student and couldn't afford to replace the clutch.
Car #2: 1989 Honda Civic. Got rid of it in 2000 at
235,000 miles thx to the stock market boom. Current
car: 2000 Mercedes E320 @ 60,000 miles. I like the
car, it gets 30 MPG and I hope it will run until 2020.
\_ You're getting 30 MPG on a 2000 E320? According to
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm it's
rated 21/30 city/hwy, and EPA numbers are usually
higher than reality.
\_ I get 26-27 MPG overall, I was
talking just highway. I got 31 MPG for a
while on a recent highway trip during
favorable conditions (Interstate 5). I
don't have a lead foot, that helps.
\_ Is it fair to compare a Prius and a non-hybrid Civic?
\_ Some people also care about conserving oil besides saving money.
used the Prius as a Taxi and got over 250K on it.
\_ How come a E320 gets better mpg than a
C320?
C320, even though a C320 has the same
engine and is smaller? |
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