Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:September:14 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/9/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39664 Activity:high
9/14    Yet another motd/wall poll. Put 'a' if you're alum, 's' student:
        We new blood: aa
        Keep current elite members:
        l33t h2x0rz: 1111111111111
        \_ We don't want need blood. We love the old alumni and their
           vile and harsh words. It is what makes motd the way it is.
        Keep current elite members:
        l33t h2x0rz: 1111111111111
        \_ Why would they want to?  Aren't the democraticunderground and the
           freepers still taking new members?  All rational discourse is long
           since dead here.  Even on tech questions we have people telling
           others they won't answer a question because they hate the person.
           Feel the love!  I read but find little reason to post anymore.
           \_ I've had very little trouble getting information on a number of
              technical and non-technical issues.  Motd has more than its share
              of invective, but I do see a fair amount of 'rational discourse'.
              "I'm finished, cry for my absence" announcements really do
              very little to remedy the problem.  It looks like they attract
              invective and hostility rather than calming things down. Perhaps
              you should consider modifying your behavior on this group,
              finding a little more tolerance and patience, or really make
              good on your nth promise to leave and actually do so.  -mice
              \_ It was no such thing as the "taking my ball and go home" as
                 you make it out to be.  I've posted more today than in the
                 last year, nor did I sign which should show the lack of "ball
                 taking home"ness.  In the context of "wouldn't it be nice to
                 have fresh blood around here?" my response is "given the
                 stuff that gets posted here, why would someone new want to
                 join in?".  You're reading too much into it that isn't there.
                 \_ Okay, fair enough.  I guess I just react harshly to
                    that general sort of declaration ("I don't post any
                    more", "ball go home" etc) since I see that frequently,
                    but almost never see anyone actually do it (this whole
                    thread would seem to attest to the fact that you do
                    find reason to post here, in contradiction to the
                    assertion).  Sorry for jumping the gun on you, man.
           \_ You find little reason to post anymore? Like the last 5 lines
              that preceded this post?
              \_ I'm not sure which 5 lines you're talking about.  The motd
                 changes too fast.
           \_ Look up "hissyfit".  -John
              \_ Whatever.  If you think the level of discourse isn't well
                 beyond personal then be happy.  In fact, that someone would
                 dare comment on the level of personal animosity on the motd
                 and then get a snippy comment like this in response makes
                 my point, thanks.  And yes, go look up hissyfit.  This isn't
                 it.  This is simply my opinion backed by an example or two
                 that were on the motd at the time I posted.
                 \_ Woe is you.  There are 2-3 borderline psychopaths that
                    post to motd (jblack hater guy and some of the other random
                    trolls.)   Just because you were offended by some of the
                    idiocy you see here (grown-up versions of the nerdy little
                    shits with glasses who liked to tease people on the
                    playground because you weren't allowed to slug them)
                    doesn't automatically mean it's all crap.  Of course you're
                    welcome to your opinion.  -John
                    \_ Again, in the context of "adding fresh blood to the
                       motd", why would anyone new want to join in?  Offended?
                       Nope.  Somewhat disappointed that what used to be a
                       good place for lots of tech info on a daily basis and
                       heated but mostly rational political debate is much
                       different now.  But my feelings are merely a distraction
                       to the point: why would anyone new want to join a
                       community with "2-3 borderline psychopaths" who seem to
                       have way too much time on their hands?  Look at the
                       motd the way a new person might and ask yourself if
                       you'd want to join in conversation and community of
                       strangers like that.  I'm *not* saying we need a policy
                       or enforcement of some rule or whatever.  I'm only
                       saying exactly what I've said about new people and
                       nothing more.
                       \_ Maybe it's just me, but I think there's the occasional
                          interesting tech-type thread, the rare intelligent
                          political thread, and the pretty frequent pseudo-
                          anonymous chest thumping random thread that's
                          actually pretty funny.  Too bad you see these as
                          turn-offs, you should join me in a contest to see
                          who can collect the most interesting troll
                          following.  -John
                          political thread, and the pretty frequent pseudo-anonymous
\                         chest thumping random thread that's actually pretty
                          funny.  Too bad you see these as turn-offs, you should join
                          me in a contest to see who can collect the most interesting
                          troll following.  -John
                          \_ I'll certainly admit that you've got some
                             interesting ones, John.  I think ilyas has some
                             pretty good ones, too.                  -mice
                             \_ Right now I only have heil cherman john guy and
                                some random occcasional others.  I tried to
                                cultivate chicom troll, but he proved too
                                wild to tame.  Our loss.  -John
                          \_ Either you're so brilliant that you find
                             intelligent things hidden in the motd, or I'm
                             so dumb that I find motd to be stupid. Or maybe
                             Beir trinke Krauts like you find anything
                             stupid to be funny. I do like the link you
                             post though, they're always of quality, like
                             the German cars. Oh, and learn to fucking
                             conform to 80 columns you Scheiße
                             \_ What is Beir?  Is that Israeli?  -John
        \_ "why would anyone new want to join [motd], a community with 2-3
           borderline psychopaths"
           My answer is simple. Because these psychopaths are bored and
           lonely and need to meet new psychopaths who are just like them
           \_ Because anonymous psychopaths are damned funny.
2005/9/14-17 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:39665 Activity:moderate
9/14    Does anyone else think Sun Microsystems is evil?  I have 2 biases
        #1. I went to Cal as an undergrad
        (SUN used to mean: Stanfurd University Networks)
        #2. I work for IBM.
        But seeing them fly over Dell yesterday:
        And then their advertising against Dell:
        Just is not classy. -vallard
        \- "evil" "stanford" ... come on grow up.
           if you think the ad might backfire, maybe that's worth
           talking about. i used to work for ibm too and there was a
           lot of stupidity there [dont use gnu compiler, dont talk
           about what is cool about the alpha] but in other areas
           it was a great environment and a smart company, but with
           regards to some things, they had their head up their ass.
           \_ sheesh, never hear of humor before?
        \_ do you think dell is evil for refusing to use amd? do you think
           intel is evil for refusing to let dell use amd?
           \_ Not the pp or op but Dell is evil for supporting war
              mongering, corporate tax loophole loving conservatives.
              They supported GWB and his illegal War on the Iraqi people.
        \_ I work for Sun.  And I can tell you flat out that Sun is *NOT*
           evil at all.  Sun is *STUPID*, *IRRESPONSIBLE* and has no
           accountability at the VP level and up, but they are not Evil.
           A lot of this has to do Scott McNealy's own personality.
           Instead of looking at competitor coldly and trying to figure
           out a way to crush them, he and entire Sun put a lot of emotion
           into it, and pull one prank after another (StarOffice, JDS)
           that is at most mischievous, but doesn't hurt competition in
           in any way in the long term... and a the mean time waste alot of
           its resources.
           \_ Yup as an ex-Sun employee I think you got it here.  The
              Stanford/Cal thing is just retarded - Sun was started by some
              uber-talented people, including Bill Joy from BERKELEY ...
              And Sun is no more or less evil than IBM.
           \_ Seconded. Sun is like many Frat boys I knew at Cal - too
              dumb to be dangerous or evil. - current sun employee.
        \_ Eh, the flyover stunt was pretty silly.  In this case I think
           the ads are just a necessary evil.  PHBs buy whatever has the
           buzz.  In this case their servers really are better than the
           more popular brand, and they need to show that. -jrleek
           Addendum: Ok, the ads that got "censored" are pretty low-class.
        \_ Why do people always forget about Bill Joy?
           \- "Bill Joy has a lot ot answer for." --hilfingr
           \_ Who is Bill Joy?  What does he have to answer for?
              \- He wrote the "almond" editor ... it would corrupt files and
                 was later replaced by vi.
                 \_ I've been googling and all I can find is that he wrote
                    vi, I've seen nothing about "almond."
                    \- it's been covered up. the almond editor existed long
                       before the WEEB and those of us who were around then
                       like to talk or blog about it. emacs may have an
                       almond emulation mode.
                       \_ You mean "WEB"?
                          \- NOO
              \_ In the dark and dismal corners of Cory and Evans,
                 during the dark ages (or the eighties) Bill could
                 be found hard at work on a little known and heavily
                 litigated hobby called the berkeley software
              \_ I think the "lot to answer for" may refer to vi.
              \_ I think the "lot to answer for" may refer to ALMOND. -ausman
                 \_ So, can some one give me a link on almond history?
                        \- google for "joy almond" --psb
                    \_ <DEAD><DEAD>  -tom
                        \- hint: there are much more subtle ways to say
                           something bad, and be more effective. That is, if
                           care to be less disliked. So let me try this.
                           Instead of saying "X is a moron/dumbass", say
                           "psb has failed prank and humor miserably."
                        \- google for "gabriel almond"
                 \- ALMOND was the editor for CEDAR from PARC and OAK which
                    became JAVA and ALMOND became PINE and ELM. You can google
                    for "joy gabriel almond stanford berkeley".
                 \- ALMOND was the editor for OAK which became JAVA
                    and ALMOND became PINE and ELM. You can google for
                    "richard gabriel almond joy".
                 \- i am extremely clever --psb
2005/9/14-17 [Computer/Companies/Ebay, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:39666 Activity:nil
        Imelda Marco is ok with being guilty but she will not allow the
        government to sell her precious jewelries.
2005/9/14-17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:39667 Activity:nil
        Using shit as a source of renewable energy
        \_ Equipment that burns gas made from manure?  Why not just burn the
           manure directly?  It has been done in the wild for centuries.
2005/9/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39668 Activity:nil
9/14    "The Katrina disaster, whose total damage estimate has risen from
        $100 to $125 billion, marks the culmination of Reagan's privatization
        of despair."
2005/9/14-16 [Reference/Tax] UID:39669 Activity:kinda low
9/13    Dear Seattle fan guy who lived in Crowne Seattle in downtown for $129
        plus 15% tax. How did your trip go, and did you like Seattle?
        \_ actually our trip went very well. It was quite fun. Even the hills
           were "small" compared to SF. The streets were so clean, and the
           people were very friendly. The crowne wasn't bad at all, and on one
           day, having a "big fat greek wedding" next to the lobby was fun to
           watch. Pike place market was very crowded when we went. We went
           back on labor day morning, but the place that throws fish around
           was closed that day. 3 days wasn't enough time to really see too
           many things, but it was overall enjoyable. After staying in some
           dumps for $70-80 a day in an earlier Portland trip, $129/day
           for a decent place was worth the extra $$$. I wish we had enough
           time to take a ferry to Bainbridge, and maybe take a drive to
           mt. st. helens, and vancouver. We rented an SUV on our trip, but
           a smaller car would have been better. On some streets it felt too
           wide. The biggest downer on the Crowne was $25/day valet parking.
           \_ See, where you went to before Seattle completely changes the way
              you look at the city. I visited Vancouver first. It's cleaner,
              streets not as crowded, good traffic, extremely nice hotels (and
              much cheaper), friendly people, nice scenery, best Dim-Sums in
              North America, etc. Then when I visited Seattle it was a total
              dump. In fact Vancouver makes the entire U.S. look like a dump.
              \_ Vancouver is a nice town, but I felt no overwhelming urge
                 to want to move there. It's just another city to me.
                 \_ Obviously, you're not an Asian and don't share the same
                    values and desires many of us share.
                    \_ No, I am not Asian. I didn't realize Asians like
                       the cold, wet, short days and high taxes. I am
                       trying to figure out what Vancouver and Monterey
                       Park have in common.
                       \_ I'm white and I love Vancouver weather, so there.
                          Also, short days part of the year means long days
                          the other part.
                       \_ No one like cold, wet, short days and high taxes.
                          But Vancouver has one of the highest density of
                          Cantonese/HK populations in the US. The dim-sum
                          Cantonese/HK populations in N Am. The dim-sum
                          there is INCREDIBLE. Before the Chinese takeover,
                          1/3-1/2 of the top notch chefs and restaurants
                          moved to Vancouver. The elite buy properties in
                          Vancouver. It's like HK-- right by the coast,
                          good mass transit, lots of Chinese people, lots
                          of high-rise buildings. If you're retiring and
                          you're Chinese then most likely you'll love to
                          socialize and play majong or just have a nice  cup
                          of tea. Tax? No one like tax. But things are
                          cheaper anyways, and most people realize that the
                          Canadian government really spends the tax money
                          well. The infrastructures are incredible-- good
                          transit, little traffic, clean, very few people
                          below poverty, low crime rates, etc.
                 (here, NYTimes about
                          HongKouver). And yes I'm Asian and I prefer
                          metropolis, mass transit, drinking boba, karaoke,
                          and simply living close with w/ other Asians and
                          I'll easily take horrible weather and high
                          taxes for the other things I like.
                          taxes for the SeaBus.
                       \_ You forgot the most insane collection of gorgeous
                          women I've ever seen in one place.  A colleague
                          claims it's because there's a huge porn industry
                          there.  -John
                          \_ Not that you'll get any chance, but, are they
                             white or Asian? When I went to the Oceanfront
                             I didn't see many white people. However, when
                             I went to Gas Town and Victoria I saw the most
                             incredible looking blonds. I don't have a white
                             women fetish and it's rare that my penis
                             gets hard when I meet them, but I actually met
                             quite a few friendly white chicks there who for
                             the first time in my life made my penis hard.
                             Unlike a lot of white trashy Paris Hilton
                             wannabes in the US, they actually look natural.
                             They look skinner, classier, more well dressed,
                             and don't put on too much make-up. They're
                             almost like the Asian women I date in the US,
                             except taller and whiter.
                             \_ I'm trying to determine if this is a troll.
                                If not, it's one of the funniest things I've
                                seen on motd.
                             \_ "Where all de white women at?"  -John
              \_ Besides vacation, the trip to Seattle was more of a scouting
                 trip to see if it might be a place that we could be happy
                 moving to for lower housing prices, a decent job market, and
                 a good quality of life. I think Seattle is someplace I could
                 put on my list of possible places to move to. Having places
                 like Vancouver nearby for weekend trips would be great. Plus,
                 there are plenty of places to shop, bookstores, restaurants,
                 and cafe's to hang out at. The huge REI there rocked! The
                 weather held up nicely while we were there. It was warmer
                 in their downtown, than SF downtown, though, it was also
                 more humid, but not bad. I only used my jacket once, and even
                 then it was warm enough to do without one. I would still like
                 to experience a typical rainy season (winter) day. It did
                 rain on a Sat afternoon/night, but we were tired and
                 sleeping thru most of it. The Uwajimaya (sp?) market was
                 pretty cool. Their ready-made crab sushi was really
                 delicious and cheap.
                 \_ Go in the winter. Seattle in the summer is great.
                    \_ I'm orig from the midwest, so anything better than cold
                       snowy winters, or just brown and dead vegetation is
                       a big improvement to me. I would actual welcome a
                       change in seasons, just not a winter full of snow and
                       \_ Depends on how far north you lived. The days
                          are really short. Imagine Wisconsin more than,
                          say, Kansas.
                          \_ Just east of there in MI.
                             \_ Ah. Everywhere looks nice compared to MI,
                                except maybe OH.
2005/9/14-17 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39670 Activity:nil
9/14    Tom Delay: There's simply no fat left to cut in federal budget.
        \_ Isn't this the guy who's pretty clearly been taking bribes?
           \_ Apparently he's decided to go into comedy. " Asked if that
              meant the government was running at peak efficiency, Mr.
              DeLay said, "Yes, after 11 years of Republican majority
              we've pared it down pretty good.""
                \_ Yes, I'm sure his campaign donors are being rewarded
                   as "efficiently" as possible.
2005/9/14-15 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:39671 Activity:nil
9/14    From the list:
        EFF has been asked to assist in locating a testifying expert in
        Oracle-based databases to assist in discussions about the
        accuracy/integrity of a database used by a public entity and in
        suggesting different manipulations and interpretations of the data.
        The case is in Los Angeles. This is a paid position. The trial is set to
        begin within a week, so the timing is very short. A last-minute expert
        has been introduced by the defense and the plaintiffs are seeking an
        expert to assist them in their response.
        Contact if you are interested and available immediately.
2005/9/14-15 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:39672 Activity:nil
        Housing market going right back up, picking off where Katrina started
2005/9/14-17 [Science/GlobalWarming, Computer/Theory] UID:39673 Activity:nil
9/14    Cognitive science searches for a common morality
2005/9/14-17 [Uncategorized] UID:39674 Activity:nil
9/14    ali rahimi, we used to work in the same lab in the mid 90s. I just
        want you to know that you had a serious attitude problem. Everyone
        in our lab hated you. But I didn't. I knew it's just part of your
        environment which is of no fault of yours, and I want to help you.
        In case you're wondering why everyone else is an idiot or dislikes
        you, it's not them, it's you. Now go work on making yourself more
        likeable. Good luck!
        \_ I sort of get the feeling your real agenda was to call Ali an
           asshole while wearing a cloak of objectivity....  --PeterM
           \_ Not to meantion anonymity. I don't know Ali, but I'm pretty
              sure I know what the op is... -jrleek
        \_ my guess is that if i was unlikable, it was because i was
           surrounded by people like you. i'm sorry you thought i was
           an asshole. but my guess is that you should share at least
           half the blame, given your silly message. are you a whiny
           girl, or do you just write like one? -ali
2005/9/14-15 [Recreation/Food] UID:39675 Activity:low
        German robbers rob a Chinese restaurant with a pistol and a knife
        but got chased out by tables and chairs thrown at them. Fucking Krauts
        \_ Callahan: You forgot your fortune cookie, punk.
           Punk: What?
           Callahan: It says you're shit out of luck.<shoots punk with .44>
        \_ So?  Bruce Lee could fight armed gangsters in restaurants with tooth
           picks.  At least he did in one of his movies.
           picks from a distance.  At least he did in one of his movies.
        \_ All hail Kung Fu!
2005/9/14-15 [Recreation/Pets, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39676 Activity:kinda low
        German invertor creates renewable fuel. A newspaper say he
        uses dead cats as the source but he denies it. Fucking Krauts.
        \_ Maybe he can improve the technology to use lying politicians and
           all our energy problems will be solved.
        \_ What's wrong with using dead cats?
           \_ Yeah they should use Hilary and her Democratic minions.
              \_ Dead fat cats?
        \_ You know, if he were born 60 years ago, he'd use Jews as
           a renewable resource. I mean, they're pretty cheap.
           \_ Holocaust on your plate!
           \_ Wait, you mean 1) they're plentiful, so they're cheap to find
              or 2) that Jewish people are cheap, as in frugal cheap? Which
              one do you mean?
        \_ Its about time someone figured out a good use for cats.
           And any time you need a fill up just run over a cat!
2005/9/14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:39677 Activity:very high Cat_by:auto
9/14    Justin Black (jblack) is a rapist^H^H^H^H^H^Hracist RACIST RACIST
        \_ This is fucking bullshit, and you are a fucking tool.  Asshole?
           Crazy? Anti-immigrant?  A liar? Brainwashed by the right? Sure.
           But none of that adds up to bona fide racist.
              \_ Boy, I'm convinced now.
                 \_ I assumed the links were supposed to be pointing out
                    that calling jblack a racist is a common idiotic
        \_ And water is wet and the sun is bright. Your point?
        \_ that's not illegal
           \_ I know, I just want everyone in the Bay Area to know. There's
              no place better than the tolerant Bay Area to be a KKK, racist,
              immigrant hater, SUV driver, gay & lesbian basher, Bush
              and Reagan worshippoer, a Republican.
           \_ Actually, it might be.  Isn't that libel?
        \_ Hey anonymous jblack hating guy!  Hows it ging in your sty?
              \_ Only if it's provably not true.
              \_ Maybe not. The problem is that the term "racist" doesn't
                 really carry much weight these days, everyone is a "racist".
                 Mix up Korean and Chinese - racist. Think rap isn't music,
                 The other problem may be that jblack rep is so low (not
                 really sure why, but everyone seems to hate him) that an
                 accusation of being a racist might not hurt him.
                 [ Note the other elements of libel are probably met ]
        \_ Hey anonymous jblack hating guy!  Hows it going in your sty?
           \_ My current working theory is that this is jblack himself,
              engaging in self-bashing to try and generate sympathy.
        \_ can you blame a guy for hating his surname?
           \_ Sure.
2005/9/14-15 [Science/Space] UID:39678 Activity:high
9/14    I've been thinking about earthquake preparedness in the wake of
        Katrina. Many (probably 50%) of my neighbors have swimming pools.
        Assuming that at least some of the pools do not leak or have all
        of the water sloshed out of them, is there an easy way to make
        chlorinated pool water safe to drink? Tablets?
        \_ go to costco, hoard water since you'll use it anyway
           in bottled form
        \_ Buy Brita and Pur. Sell it for $1000/each during the disaster.
        \_ I think if you just let it sit in the sun for a while it would
           be fine.  You have to constantly add chlorine to pool water.
           \- chlorine is an alernative to iodine for cleaning water
              when you are in the "backcountry" ... i've comsumed lots
              of chlorinated water. in fact in emergencies you can use
              chlorine bleach to disinfect water. i dont know anything
              about what goes into swimming pools, but if there is a
              problem with potability, it isnt the chlorine. i am guessing
              if you are reduced to contemplating drinking pool water,
              it will be ok to do. or you can wait by the pool and HUNT
              people to come there to drink. --psb
              \_ Yes, I know.  I have also done this.  The chlorine
                 content in your average pool is fairly high though.
                 (Well, this is less true for private pools.)  I have no
                 idea what level in dangerous though. -pp
              \- see comment about "if you are reduced to contemplating this"
                 chlorine tolerance should be pretty high for a while. i've
                 had to drink chlorine water for ~1month. with iodine there
                 are issue of long term use.
              \_ I would be concerned about the pH and the accumulating salt
                 content of the water.  The constant struggle to maintain pH
                 involves lots of acids and bases which results in a salty
              \_ Out of curiosity, would boiling the water help?  How
                 about collecting the resulting steam (pure water?).  Any
                 little gadgety thing we could buy at a retail store
                 to do this (short of something that looks like a chem
                 \_ Boiling and gathering the steam will work, but I am
                    assuming there is limited ability to cook. Tablets
                    or a Brita-type solution would be best. Would a Brita
                    be enough to make the water safe enough to drink
                    in a pinch? I'd like to include whatever solution in
                    my earthquake kit. I know for boaters there is a
                    contraption that collects seawater and uses the sun's
                    energy to evaporate (and collect) enough to drink. No
                    idea how much that costs.
                    \_ Depending on the weather, that contraption can be
                       as easy as a hole in the ground and some saran-wrap.
        \_ Just get a MSR Miox Water purifier. Unbelievable little device
           cleans up 200 L with just two watch batteries and salt!
           \- killing microorganisms != chemical decontamination.
              these distillation approaches are not reasonable.
              you need to define what your problem is before looking for
              the right tehnology and process to solve it. if it is
              "what do i do about drinking water for 1 wk in SF after a 9.0
              earthquake for 2 people" the right answer is probably store
              water bottles.
              \_ The above purifier claims to do both. Distillation
                 *might* work depending on the chemical to be distilled.
                 Anyway, I am looking for something better than storing
                 water bottles, which can themselves be destroyed. I mean,
                 I've got 40 gallons in my water heater that might make
                 it. I'm already storing water in my garage, but I like
                 the idea of not worrying about replacing it every so
                 often. I figure there's thousands of gallons in the
                 swimming pools so why not use that?
                 \- doyou know what distillation means? ok that is my
                    last comment on this.
                    \_ I do. It appears you may not.
2005/9/14-17 [Reference/Religion] UID:39679 Activity:low
9/14    Here we go again: (Pledge Is Unconstitutional)
        \_ I feel a bit nostalgic for those lazy carefree days when people's
           passion might have been aroused by this question.  Now, between
           passion might have been aroused by this question.  Now, after
           Iraq and Katrina, doesn't it seem self-indulgent and just a bit
           silly to argue over the pledge?
        \_ Here is one thing I don't understand.  Now that the cold war
           is over, shouldn't we just remove the word "under god" from the
           Pledge hence remove any controversies?  Afterall, we've
           pledge without "under god" for hundred+ years.
                \_ No because we are nation founded on Christianity ... If
                   you say that often enough like a robot it becomes true.
           \_ Check your timeline.  The pledge was written by a Christian
              Socialist who had been forced out of his ministry for his
              politics.  He wrote it in 1892.  The "under God" line was added
              in 1954.
                \_ So 60 years max without God, 50 or so with God.
                \_ that is my point.  If we can do it without, then,
                   why don't we just leave it out?  If "under god" is so
                   imporant, why the pledge left it out at first place?
        \_ haha, good riddance to a stupid elementary school morning ritual
        \_ An atheist had a good point ... If the pledge was "under no God"
           instead of "under God" there would be lots of noise from the
           religious right.
           or "under a nonexistent God" instead of "under God" there would
           be lots of noise from the religious right -- I doubt they would
           just say "what's the big deal"
           \_ that guy is cool.  He presented his case by himself at front
              of Supreme Court!
2005/9/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39680 Activity:kinda low
9/14    Dear German John, why don't you date AZNs like most of the
        soda geeks here? Do you only talk to your kind? Are you a RACIST???
        \_ I am not a racialist.  -John
           \_ i thought John is a Nipponfile.
2005/9/14-16 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39681 Activity:nil
9/14    Q: Pres. Bush, what is your opinion of Roe v. Wade?
        A: I don't care how people got out of New Orleans.
        \_ Damn, I was just about to post that.
2005/9/14-15 [Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:39682 Activity:nil
9/14    Oh man.  Can someone please explain to me why PHP isn't the spawn of
        the devil?
        \_ It's the spawn of Perl, isn't that good enough?
2005/9/14-17 [Consumer/TV, Recreation/Media] UID:39683 Activity:nil
9/15    any recommendations for projectors below $1000? i just want
        to watch movies at home on my computer.
        \_ Look at the InFocus X1 or X1a
        \_ There is one at the Audio store in the Bay Street Plaza (Emeryville
           that is HDTV/DVD widescreen compliant (16:9 1320x760?) which costs
           $1100 but comes with a $100 rebate.  Looks beautiful.  Stunning
2005/9/14-16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39684 Activity:low
9/14    Bush may need a bathroom break? Is this possible?
        \_ This needs to be posted on freerepublic.  Now now now.
           \_ Okay, I found one:
        \_ Oh, I just assumed he went around with a urine bag in his
           \_ No, Condi carries it for him, duh!
              \_ and drinks the contents to give herself strength.
                 \_ that's just damn weird
        \_ Here he is winking at the Chinese premier. Wtf?
           \_ Damn, we elected this guy to represent the greatest nation
              on earth?
              \_ We as in 51% of the pure bred white-trash Americans.
                 \_ Only 64% voted so 33% of white-trash Americans.
        \_ The world's most powerful man is requesting for a bathroom break??
        \_ As much as I like to see silly Bush stuff -- This is just reality
           for being the President.  Every move is watched, anytime you need
           to do something or go somewhere there are logistics involved.
           \_ Somehow it's disturbing that the SoS is being asked to fetch a
              chamber pot.  You'd think there'd be a protocol officer around.
                \_ That would look good on a resume "potty protocol officer
                   for President"
2005/9/14-17 [Computer/HW/Drives, Science/Disaster] UID:39685 Activity:low
9/14    So, if there's a massive destructive earthquake and all the
        buildings on campus are destroyed, does csua have a backup
        somewhere off campus?  I doubt it.  So, basically, soda.csua
        might be down for a long long time.  Now, suppose this earthquake
        strikes the building where the server for yahoo or google is.  Do
        you think they have a backup off site, so that even in a natural
        disaster their email and other services would continue relatively
        \_ Kubi had something like this for personal files. It was part
           of his Ocean Store project. One of his greatest fears was
           having his PhD thesis run over by a giant truck so the idea
           was to distribute your personal data encrypted on peer-to-peer
           networks (if you trust your personal data to be stored on p2p).
        \_ Heh heh.  I'm guessing you're either an undergrad or have never
           worked in industry.    *giggle*  Seriously, though, both companies
           definitely have multiple clusters in greatly separated colos.  The
           reasons for this have as much to do with effiency as they do with
           safety/redundancy.  I know one of those companies has at least 4:
           3 in the US and at least one in the UK.
           \_ Although one major corporation (whose name rhymes with Bicrosoft)
              did have all of its name servers on the same subnet a few years
              back. Just because a company is big doesn't mean its network is
              designed intelligently, particularly for companies that were
              well-established before the Internet boom. -gm
              \_ I've worked for 3 software companies in my time, and 2 of
                 them kept offsite backups in multiple non-earthquake states,
                 while the third had (I believe) only one.  It's pretty
                 common practice nowadays, despite the absurdity of other
                 companies *coughcoughmicrosoftcough*.  Two other companies
                 that I worked for didn't, but then, both of them were 3 or
                 4 man operations, and backups consisted of me copying
                 everything onto a cd and taking it home.
        \_ soda hall is a fairly new building. and I think soda's
           rack is bolted to the floor. Sounds like it might be okay.
           \_ You make the assumption that the servers are somehow actually
              secured to the rack.  Shame on you! - jvarga
              \_ Are you a student or an alum? I have no idea who you are.
                 In case you were/are a stuff, have you been properly
                 trained and indoctrinated by the alumni?
2005/9/14-15 [Science/Disaster] UID:39686 Activity:nil
9/14    Hey conservatives, do you think this is a perfect place where USGS
        can be replaced by private companies that do earthquake research
        more cheaply and more effectively? I mean, the federal assisted
        USGS is dying, with 30% decline in funding from 1978.
2005/9/14-17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:39687 Activity:kinda low
9/14    Israeli's pull out of Gaza, now we will see the Palestinians killing
        each other instead of Israelis:
        \_ haha. what losers.
           \_ So some people who have trapped in Gaza are leaving and the
              rest are arming themselves. How does that make them losers?
        \_ As if that was the least of it.  Looters are destroying
           everything, including the greenhouses:
           \_ lol, what a bunch of dumasses.
           \_ And desecrating synagogues.  Way to go, religion of peace!
              \_ Red Herring. The PA asked the Isreali govt to remove
                 them, they agreed then at the last minute refused.
                 The Palestinians need the land for other uses, so they
                 have to tear them down.
              \_ I doubt religion has much to do with it ... They've been
                 occupied for decades.
                 occupied for decades.  I'd be burning down the buildings
                 of the occupiers too, especially the ones that are useless.
2005/9/14-16 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39688 Activity:low
9/14    What does "I have an enormous iron stand" mean in German figuratively?
        \_ Ask heil cherman john guy, he usually knows these things.  -John
           \_ No response from him. Please answer John, thanks.
              \_ It's as close to "my turgid manhood is mighty and
                 strong" as "my hovercraft is filled with eels."  I
                 suggest you try it on a female German exchange
                 students.  The especially burly ones tend to be
                 receptive to that sort of thing around now.  -John
                 \- by "iron stand" do you mean "tripod", as in
                    3 legged object. --psb
                    \_ Chiapet!
                       \- see "patrick" character on BBC "coupling" show
        \_ It's more elequent in German. I have a big iron stand and
           I want you. SAY IT! Ich habe einen riesigen Eisenstaender und ich
           bin Schwuchtel.
2020/07/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:September:14 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>