Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:29 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2005/8/29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39324 Activity:nil
t/28    Tom Watson on Iraq:
        http://tomwatson.typepad.com/tom_watson/2005/08/sands_of_death.html
2005/8/29 [Computer/SW/Security, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:39326 Activity:nil
8/28    The yellow triangle "Time Warner Full Service Network" poster has
        been taken down from the CSUA Office. If this has any lore-value
        to anyone, come grab it ASAP. First come, first serve. - amckee
2005/8/29 [Finance/Banking, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:39327 Activity:low
8/28    Any tips on saving money?  What do you do?
        \_ My strategy was to be really cheap and worry about every dollar
           spent. I bought a cheap but decent car with a bunch of rebates out
           of college and haven't spent money on that in 5 years. I lived in a
           cheap place. These things aren't good for getting women BTW.
                    I lived much the same way and had no problem _/
                    on this front.  Bitter much?
           I think depending on your income though these things probably end
           up being kind of a sucker's way to save money. Given a certain level
           of saving the best defense is a good offense... try to build your
           income through good investments. That will pay off more than
           cheaping on misc. consumerism although that comes down to the level
           compared to your income. Stupid = buying $ cars and HDTVs with no
           savings left. Oh and yeah I never carried a credit card debt.
        \_ Have your income exceed your expendetures.
           \_ This is pretty much what I do.  Do what businesses and
              (responsible) governments do: only borrow money to buy things
              that will help you make more money.  (e.g. car, house)  Otherwise,
              wait to buy it until you've saved the money to "pay cash".  And
              that's beyond 6 months+ expenses saved so that next time you lose
              your job you don't have to live off credit cards.
              \_ It's a pretty goddamn simple concept, but it's worked for me
                 well enough.  I've gotten a lot of long-winded lectures on
                 complicated savings plans from people who are always living
                 month to month, while I've been able to save enough to pay off
                 my college loans on my grad student stipend without really
                 doing anything that complicated.
        \_ Get a copy of Quicken.  Go through your old bank and cc statements
           (you should be able to get the last few months online) and put
           them in, making sure you actually catagorize everything.  You will
           have to guess on cash transactions, but you should have some idea.
           Make a budget with the budget tools in Quicken.  Keep it for a
           month or two, see how you do.  Revist the budget with a better idea
           of how well you can stick to it.  Then stick to it.
           \_ This is a good way to find out what you spend money on and how
              much to budget, but not a really good way to ensure you save
              the difference. As below, make sure you don't mingle your
              'savings' with your 'checking'.
        \_ A good way is to automatically deduct money from your paychecks
           and send it to a brokerage or even a savings account. Start
           small. Send $50 or $100 week off that way and you probably
           won't even miss it. When you get used to that increase it.
        \_ Vote for less tax! Less tax, more personal income, more savings.
           You can start by registering as a Republican, and vote for the
           Republican who cuts the most tax. Don't get brainwashed by
           left-wing socialists and Democrats alike. You worked hard to
           earn your money, you should keep it all.        -jblack #1 fan
        \_ What's your restaurant and entertainment budget?  Cut that.
           Travel?  Cut that too.  Toys and other discretionary?  Ditto.
           New cars?  Forget about it.  Clothing and other personal grooming?
           Trim those to the bone.
        \_ earn more, spend less!  Simplicity!
        \_ Stop buying lattes.  Eat in.  Make your own breakfast instead of
           buying a pastry.  Limit how often you drink in bars.  These four
           things saved me hundreds of dollars a month.
           \_ I bet it lost you about 5lbs/month too, if you were overweight.
              \_ Actually, I'm towards the bottom of the BMI for my height, but
                 that's probably more due to the 5 miles of running every other
                 day than anything else.  But thanks for asking.  By the way,
                 the "get rid of your car" advice is also really good, but
                 only operable if you work in certain areas.  -pp
        \_ Get rid of your car. The average car costs $400/mo. -ausman
           \_ So if you work for 30 years with no car, that gives you
              144,000 dollars more to spend on a place closer to work.
              Not to mention the commuting time that you either get for
              yourself or use to make more money.  I'm pretty sure most of the
              whinners who blather about not having the money to live closer
              to work could do it with the money saved from not driving.
              \_ People get work done with laptops on BART or on buses.  Some
                 read novels.  For me, I just nap all the way on the bus.  You
                 can't do these while driving.  At least you're not supposed
                 to.
              \_ $400/month really doesn't make the difference between
                 "able-to-afford housing" and "not" for most people in the
                 Bay Area.  Particularly since if you don't have a car,
                 getting around (usually) isn't free.  Most people will need
                 to take public transportation, which can easily be ~
                 $100/month.
           \_ don't forget about insurance.  But this will only work in
              selected areas like NY City.
           \_ "AAA Says Average Driving Cost Is 56.2 Cents Per Mile For 2004"
              http://csua.org/u/d6l
              And that's 2004, when gas prices were lower.
        \_ whatever John does, do the opposite.  John has expensive tastes.
           \_ Oh man, nice rep. :)  -John
              \_ what's with those expensive pens, restaurants, etc., etc.? :)
2005/8/29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39328 Activity:nil
8/28    Where is the LA National Guard?
        http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1093
        \_ In Iraq?
           \_ They're busy fighting the hurricanes over there, where they
              live, so that the hurricanes don't get us here, where we
              live.
2005/8/29-30 [Computer/Networking] UID:39329 Activity:moderate 54%like:37400
8/29    What's the difference between a hub, a switch and a router?  Thx.
        \_ AFAIK, probably be corrected by someone:
           hub: Allows communication on a LAN with bandwith shared amongs all
                the nodes on the hub and maxing out at the max line speed.
           switch: Allows communication on a LAN with bandwith greater than
                the max line speed (point to point)
           router: Allows communication between 2 different networks
           \_ The original difference between a hub and a switch is that
              a hub was multicasting whereas a "switch" (originally called
               a "switching hub") had enough circuitry to route signals
               to the appropriate port and that port only in which the
               destination IP was located. Obviously a multicasting
               hub would slow down the whole network with unnecessary
               chatter. A "router" used to mean devices which would
               route traffice between different LANs, although these days
               the terms have devolved so that they are somewhat
               interchangeable (all hubs have essentially become switches,
               it's actually somewhat difficult to find a hub these days, and
               many switches have essentially become routers).
           \- in practice these are used some what randomly right now.
              like managed switches are actually pretty smart. but sort
              of at a functional level: hub turns one network drop into a
              place you can plug in multiple devices. switch: sort of a
              set of point to point links making up a subnet based on
              arp/mac, and a router is what knows about "routing", i.e.
              IP addresses.
           \_ Hub: a multiport repeater, extends an ethernet "wire" to
                   multiple machines.
              Switch: a multiport bridge, separates ethernet collision
                   domains
              Router: communication interface between different IP broadcast
                   domains
              Layer 3 switch:  Basically a router with a built-in switch. -John
              \_ I see.  Currently I have Yahoo DSL and one PC at home.  The PC
                 connects to the only ethernet port on the DSL modem.  If I
                 want to add a second PC, I should buy a hub, connect the hub
                 to the DSL modem, and connect both PCs to the hub.  Is that
                 correct?  Thx.  -- OP
                 \_ Not exactly. The hub is not smart enough to translate
                    between the DSL modem and your PCs, and your modem will
                    balk at two PCs trying to talk to it at the same time.
                    Get a four-port router, place that between the modem
                    your PCs, and configure your router to make the connection
                    (i.e., get the IP address and serve DHCP to your PCs).
                    \_ What?  What DSL modem doesn't also function as a mini-
                       router?  The DSL modem port isn't magic.  It is pumping
                       out bog standard ethernet packets.  --boggle!
                       \_ Yahoo! SBC DSL is PPPoE. The router needs to
                          make the connection. The person above is
                          correct. Get a hub and place it between the
                          router and the modem. I guess this guy needs a
                          router, too. It's not the only way, but it's the
                          best and easiest way. In fact, many DSL routers
                          are also hubs so he only needs to buy one piece
                          of equipment.
                          \_ You failed to recognize DRIPPING sarcasm.  Your
                             penance is to watch George Carlin until your
                             brain melts
        \_ Nice nuke.  Hub = multiport repeater, extension of one ethernet
           collision domain to many wires/hosts.  Switch = multiport bridge,
           separates ethernet collision domains (when you hear that ethernet
           is contention-based, it means you have traffic from more hosts
           colliding on one "wire", slowing shit down.)  Router = separates
              \- this is getting less true *in practice* with gigE. it makes
                 life a lot more complicated to run half-dup and is largely
                 file a more more complicated to run half-dup and is largely
                 req'ed because of IEEE politics. do you know anybody running
                 1/2 dup gigE? see e.g. wl.20050819. do you think the person
                 asking the question know what things like "bcast domains"
                 mean?
                 \_ He asked for definitions.  The above are correct, _and_
                    try to answer his question (note: "try").  I don't
                    know anyone running gigE half duplex; I also don't know
                    anyone running gigE off a DSL line.  Hence: chill.  -John
                 \- BTW, in general there are a lot of weird performance
                    hacks in these networking devices so often they dont
                    operate the way you think they might. like some switches
                    start forwarding a packet before it arrives completely ...
                    it starts parsing the "front edge" header info ... so in
                    some cases part of the packet is already "in flight"
                    to the destination before the box "relizes" the checksum
                    has failed. anyway, this makes for all kind of weird
                    unintuitive behaviors, like why on some cases switching
                    between 10 and 100mbit can be slower than 10-10. etc.
                    a classic early example of this were the attacks on
                    cheep switches to get them to go into "repeat" mode
                    so you could sniff some extra traffic in a "switched"
                    environment. and mcast makes things a lot more complicated.
           IP broadcast domains and communicates transparently between them.
           A layer 3 switch is basically a router with a built-in switch, and
           a firewall is basically a bridge/switch or router with filtering
           logic.  In response to your question above, a hub will do fine.  I
           have no idea what the responder was on about with your DSL router
           (it's a router, not a modem, dammit) getting confused.  If you want
           higher speeds getting the PCs to talk to each other, get a switch,
           but you won't gain anything on your Internet connection.  Just make
           sure your DSL router (he's correct about the PPPoE, STFW) can
           accept connections from more than 1 client.  -John
           \_ The DSL modem and the DSL router are two separate devices.
              He said he has a modem. He never said if he has a router
              or not.
              \_ Rereading I guess you are objecting to the 'DSL modem'
                 terminology and realize this. He can do PPPoE from two
                 computers, but it would be easier to buy a router and
                 have it do the PPPoE instead of mere a hub.
              \_ Sorry, I have no idea whether I have a DSL modem or a DSL
                 router.  I signed up for the $19.95/mo plan in 3/05.  On my
                 SBC phone bill they charged me $99 and gave me a rebate for a
                 "DSL Modem Package".  So I always thought the black DSL thing
                 is a DSL modem.  I'll check the the labels on it and see if it
                 says anything.  -- OP
                 \_ OK, to be a bit less pedantic about it, generally, the way
                    DSL lines are implemented is by a device which has an
                    RJ11/45 port on one side doing "phone stuff" and RJ45
                    on the other side doing "ethernet stuff".  A "modem" is a
                    device which encodes digital signal in an analog sound
                    carrier.  Also, almost all DSL devices I have seen "route"
                    information between different IP subnets, hence the term
                    "router" (a router doesn't have to have ethernet on both
                    sides.)  This in almost no way affects your situation, just
                    trying to be informative.  I'm just a bit anal about
                    terminology.  -John
              \_ from a technical standpoint, most people use DSL routers and
                 know one class of routers as modems.  a true DSL modem would
                 provide what is essentially a serial bit stream interface,
                 or possible multiple streams with ASIC demultiplexors.
2005/8/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:39330 Activity:nil
8/29    Anyone has any experience with IPTVs?  Do they work ok?  In
        particular, I am interested in mixed China/Taiwan/HK offerings.
        Recently got a mail offering from http://kylintv.com but it seems to
        be pure PRC serials / HK movies.  I also want Taiwan variety
        and political shows.  I am in the midwest, so I don't get
        any chinese channels, and I am getting free cable, so I don't
        want to go directtv.
2005/8/29-30 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:39331 Activity:high
8/29    "If you paid your mortgage off, it means you probably did not manage
        your funds efficiently over the year."
                -David Lereah (chief economist, National Assocn of Realtors)
        "If you own your own home free and clear, people will often refer to
        you as a fool.  All that money sitting there, doing nothing."
                -Anthony Hsieh (chief executive, LendingTree Loans)
        http://csua.org/u/d6q (LA Times)
        \_ Indeed, I suppose it's better to pay interest and have the
           possibility of losing your home if you ever lost your job
           by being unable to pay off the debt than the alternative.
           Unless you plan to utilize the debt in some sort of constructive
           method, taking out a loan for a loan's sake (especially with
           the rather wonky instruments utilized today) isn't necessarily
           smart.
           \_ Actually, it's better to have money for your monthly
              payment than to have spent it all paying off the house.
              Also, carrying a mortgage has tax benefits, and someone noted
              investments below too.
              \_ You don't spend it ALL paying off the mortgage.  Like
                 an investment, you can spend a small portion of what
                 you earn toward the mortgage, paying off principles.
                 The tax advantage you get by paying mortgage cancels
                 out the tax you pay on investments, so paying off
                 your 30 year 6% mortgage is like making a guaranteed
                 6% investment (for 30 years). If you are sure your
                 money will earn more than that, then by all means put
                 it to good use. If it's just sitting at your band
                 account earning 1% or doing nothing useful (ie, you
                 already have enough emergency reserves), then you are
                 wasting your money. Unfortunately the majority of
                 people waste their money this way.
        \_ I read that too.  If the economy gets totally fucked at least
           you'll still have your house to live in ... If your goal in life
           is maximum consumption with no safety net, then the advice in that
           article is very good.
           \_ Queue Prop 13 argument. Without it you might not have a
              house to live in even if it's paid for.
        \_ I agree with Mr. Lereah and Mr. Hsieh.  Mortgage interest after
           tax savings for a 30 year fixed is like 4%.  It's not hard to
           beat that with some smart investing.  I've been getting like
           35% return per year the last 3 years.  Mortgage interest is
           ridiculously low, and you get the rate for 30 years, then add
           a big tax break .. it's a no brainer.  Of course, paying off
           your mortgage is a safe (guaranteed) return, so if you are
           35% return per year the last 3 years.  Of course, paying off
           your mortgage is a safe and guaranteed return, so if you are
           close to retirement ...
           \_ What investment options have better return than 4% and carry low
              risk these days?  I only made the required mortgage payment for
              the first year or two, thinking that I would invest the extra
              money somewhere and get better returns.  After a while I changed
              my mind and started making extra payments towards the principal
              instead.  I'm 34 and have a wife and a kid.
              \_ You choose wisely!
              \_ also, guy was saying:  doing better than losing 4% per year
                 due to mortgage interest
              \_ I bonds are paying 4.8% currently.  Granted your earnings
                 will be taxed, but your mortgage interest rate stays the
                 same for 30 years, and it won't surprise me at all if
                 one year down the road, you'll be getting say 5.5% from
                 two years down the road, you'll be getting say 6% from
                 I bonds, and pocketing the spread.  The bigger question,
                 however, is why you are so risk averse.  At 34, I presume
                 you are far from retirement and your kid far from college.
                 you need to grow your money to prepare for those.
                 (note that I bonds interest earnings are exempt from
                 state and local income taxes, and if used to finance
                 education, may be exempt from federal taxes too.)
                 \_ I am 32 and I think there's some benefit to having a
                    mortgage and keeping cash. I know a woman with
                    millions in cash who still has an $800,000 mortgage
                    on her $2M house. Why drop $1.2M for something that is
                    costing only $4K/month? On the other hand, I am paying
                    on her $2M house. Why drop $800K more for something that
                    is costing only $4K/month? On the other hand, I am paying
                    extra on my mortgage because I want it paid in 15-20
                    years instead of 30. It would be great to be 50 and
                    have no mortgage. Not only would retirement be better,
                    but those 15 years before then could be great (e.g.
                    travel) without that big monthly expense. So I see
                    myself as a compromise. My mortgage (principal) is one
                    investment I make, but not close to my only one.
                    \_ yes, but if (granted, a big if) you invest well,
                       you would have plenty of liquid asset on hand,
                       that you could use to pay off your mortgage anytime
                       you want.  that's my goal and strategy.
                       \_ Of course, which is why I say it's not my only
                          investment. However, by cutting years off of my
                          mortgage and saving lots of money in interest I
                          am doing myself a favor. I invest more OUTSIDE
                          of my mortgage. People putting every available
                          extra dollar towards their house are misguided,
                          I think. I knew a girl who was a performance
                          artist/exotic dancer. When she retired (at a young
                          age by necessity) she had saved $500K cash. She
                          bought a $500K house with it. I am not sure
                          that's the wisest use of money. I personally
                          would have taken a small mortgage out on the
                          place and kept some cash for something else. Same
                          ideas at work.
              \_ You are not the target of Messrs. Lereah and Hsieh ire.
                 People who have paid off their houses are their objects of
                 scorn. The concept is that these people should risk some
                 small percentage of their home equity for a chance to make
                 more than the rate of a home equity loan. Since you do not
                 actually own your house or are close to paying it off, you
                 can and should ignore their taunts.
                 \_ Actually, anyone with equity is the target. That
                    equity could be working for you, right?
                    \_ If you reread the quotes, they are referring directly
                       to people who have finished off paying their mortgages.
                       The article itself implies more the "any equity" crowd.
                       \_ But, really, what's the difference if I owe
                          $20K or nothing on a, say, $300K house?
                          \_ Not much. The better question is $100K vs. $20K.
                             Of course, it's your house. How much you want to
                             risk is up to you.
                             \_ I'm just saying the 'finished paying off
                                their mortgages' distinction seems
                                unnecessary. Anyone with equity is the
                                target.
                                \_ Their word choice is VERY telling. They are
                                   aiming to get those people with a high
                                   amount of equity, not those who are just
                                   5-10 years into their 30 year mortgage.
                                   I'd guess they are looking at older, lower
                                   risk homeowners as their target audience.
                                   \_ If you're 5-10 years into your mortgage
                                      in the Bay Area, you have an enormous
                                      amount of equity.  -tom
                          \_ You need to think of the difference in
                             terms of years. ie, 50k now = 10 years of
                             mortgage free living. Whether it's
                             something you want, it's up to you.
                             \_ Where does the $50K number come from?
        \_ translation: there are not enough naive individual investors
           to take risks and shelter our instititutional investment
           models to provide steady revenue for our capital investors
           who are not willing to take those high-risk investments
           themselves.
           \_ real translation: we need more idiots to buy houses they
              can't afford, and more idiots to refinance their loans
              to extract the equity to spend on new cars.
              \- why do you hate idio^D^D^D^DAmericans?
           \_ yea, naive american investors should learn from the
              japanese and put all their money in 0% savings accounts
              - real safe!
                                     \_ you should fix that backspace key
                                        \_ The ^D's were meant to be a joke.
                                           Welcome to the net.
                                           \_ Real Sodans use "^H".
2005/8/29 [Uncategorized] UID:39332 Activity:nil
8/28    Can someone please gimme Hindi translations for the following Yahoo
        International Audibles? Thanks.
        aankhen hai ki batatein...dikhta nahin kya?
        bhooooooot
        OYE! chuk de patte
        \_ "Hey get loose."
        Hai Daiyya..bas bhi karo..log kya kahenge!
        Arre dil pe mat le yaar
        Kya aap mere saath coffee peene chalenge?
        abbey e..offline ho gaya kya, ya Mr.India bana baitha hai?
                Lal chasma lagaoon kya?
        e chal e shaane..hawa aane de
        \_ "Don't act all smart." Literally: "Shut your mouth and move aside
           so the air can pass."
        Arre...yahin to dhokha kha gaya India..
2005/8/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:39333 Activity:nil
8/28    Worth reposting.  James J. Heckman's systematic demolition of
        "The Bell Curve":
        http://reason.com/9503/dept.bk.HECKMAN.text.shtml
        \- FYI: HECKMAN co-won the Econ nobel with UCB Econ Nobel D. MCFADDEN
        \_ "For a variety of reasons, treating persons fairly as individuals
           may lead to heterogeneity in outcomes among demographic groups.
           Denying individual heterogeneity by treating persons as members of
           demographic categories will produce disparities in productivity
           among demographic groups, reduce economic efficiency, and foster a
           sense of injustice among all participants in society."  MOTD, I
           hardly knew ya.
2005/8/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:39334 Activity:high
8/28    50,000 maidens vie to become Swazi King's 13th wife. What the hell?
        Are they still living in the 15th century? Also, I wonder if the
        princess was listening to rap or hip-hop:
     http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050829/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_swaziland_whipping
        \- now the modern amercican 21st century approach would be to turn
           it into a REALITY SHOW.
           \_ Big win, since it would raise the number of minorities on
              prime time network TV.
              \_ I find this entire thread unbearably depressing. -- ilyas
                 \- maybe you were happier in the Age of Aquarius?
                    Ilyas Inquiry: Are you familar with Jamie Robins?
                                   Is he one of your masters?
                    \_ Harvard Epidemiology Robins?  I site him a lot.  My
                       Dark Master likes him too.  I used an example of Robins'
                       in my last IJCAI paper. -- ilyas
                       \_ go to bed dude
                          \- yes, Jamie Robins who looks like Spalding Gray
                             and who may ride a teenger's bike.
                             and rides a teenger's bike.
           \_ I don't think SWAZILAND has that many TVs.  -John
                \_ The lucky girl gets a BMW and a cellphone!
                   \_ But no TV.  Go figure.
        \_ [format police]
        \_ Well, the government is implementing "intelligent design" in
        schools across America. What the hell? Are they still living in the
        15th century?
        \_ What does this have to do with the 15th century? More like
           4000 B.C.
           \_ One wonders what sorts of social organization were prevalent
              in 4000 BC.
              \_ Chinese didn't have law prevents brothers and sisters
                 sleeping on the same bed until something like 1000 BC
                 or later.  just tell you how primitive
                 Chinese society was at the time... and I assure you
                 there aren't that many civilization which was as
                 advanced as Chinese at the time.
                 \_ Huh?
                 \_ Interesting.  Partha would say that the rule of law is
                    the basis of civilized society.  Ilyas would say it's
                    property rights.  Apparently, you're saying it's the
                    prohibition against conjugal relationship with one's
                    siblings.  I like the way you think!
                 \_ I knew I was born too late!
                               \- just a small point: i think "rule" is
                                  a prior condition for "society" beyond
                                  small family/tribal type units. "rule of
                                  law" often suggests a sense of justice and
                                  adding "civilized" also puts a slightly
                                  editorial spin on things. i'm making an
                                  empirical claim [you need non-anarchy
                                  for society to get beyond a Hobbesian
                                  state of nature. not a normative claim
                                  about "what is good", like is depotism
                                  worse than the SoN, i.e. taking a position
                                  for or against "Live Free or Die"]. --psb
                    \_ Wow, you've gotten both me AND psb wrong.  I like the
                       way you think! -- ilyas
                 \_ I knew I was born thirty centuries late!
                       \- The darkness drops again; but now I know
                          That twenty centuries of stony sleep
                          Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle
        \_ dude, let them be.  There is nothing wrong with their way of life.
           \_ Polygamists make baby Jesus cry.
              \_ Ok fine. Uh, 2000-1500 BC.
           \_ really?  would you change places with any random person in their
              society?  would you want our society to emulate theirs?
        \_ Why is the king's own daughter in that party?
        \_ Why is the king's own daughter in that party?  He must be a fan of
           <DEAD>www.daddydoesdaughter.com<DEAD>
        \_ "... a country where 40 percent of adults live with HIV."  Wow.
2005/8/29-30 [Uncategorized] UID:39335 Activity:nil
8/29    There is a talk on neutrinos at SLAC tomorrow @ 7:30 PM:
        http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/lectures/info_2005/2005_08_30.htm
        \_ My brain is too dense to be penetrated by neutrinos
2005/8/29-30 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39336 Activity:nil
8/29    Church says God is punishing American soldiers for
        defending a country that harbors gays. God Bless. Amen.
     http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/soldier_funeral_protests
        \_ Sheesh, yes these guys are disgusting.  They're fairly famous
           for it.  Just generically calling them a church is somewhat
           disingenuous IMO.  Their webpage: http://www.godhatesfags.com
2005/8/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39337 Activity:nil
8/29    A town called F___ing in Australia in controversy:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050828/wl_uk_afp/britainaustriaoffbeat
        \_ Austria != Australia. And this is a pretty old story... I guess
           AFP recycles these things.
        \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fucking_austria_small.jpg
2005/8/29-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:39338 Activity:nil
8/29    Whistleblower on Halliburton no-bid $7 billion contract demoted
        http://csua.org/u/d6t (LA Times)
2005/8/29-30 [Uncategorized] UID:39340 Activity:nil
8/29    Whatever happened to the Hmong sharpshooter who killed 6 whities?
        \_ STFW, dude.  There's plenty of information about that available.
        \_ squeeling like a pig in prison
2005/8/29-30 [Uncategorized] UID:39341 Activity:nil
8/29    Work out question: How important is it to wear a weight belt?
        Will I explode or get a hernia if I dont wear one?
        \_ do you strain your back?
2005/8/29-31 [Recreation/Computer] UID:39342 Activity:low
8/29    So after changing a few pics on friendster, I got 2 emails from two
        different women. One works at Coca Cola down in Africa, and the
        other one with a generic hello, eager for a reply from me. I didn't
        post anything spectacular or anything and I'm suspecting that this
        is a spam attempt. Has anyone gotten a similar response after
        changing pics or specs? Thanks.
        \_ Any unsolicited message on one of those services which asks you to
           email an outside address is almost certainly a spammer harvesting
           addresses.  Myspace is plagued with them - the typical approach
           being with a profile short on details but featuring a really cute
           picture and an insistence that you email as soon as possible.
           \_ I dunno. I had some cutie 18 y.o. Brazilian email me on
              orkut out of the blue last year. Turns out all she wanted
              was an English speaking penpal.
              \_ Well, did you "teach" her anything? Come on...
        \_ Did she ask for your bank account number so she could transfer $5M to you?
        \_ This is a follow-up. I'm the op. I went back to check their
           stats, and friendster says "This user doesn't exist." I guess
           they are indeed spammers. Whew. When 2 semi-attractive women
           send a chubby guy who's not particularly interesting (me),
           you've got to wonder if it's too good to be true :(
2005/8/29-30 [Uncategorized] UID:39343 Activity:nil
8/29    Mail registerme@opera.com on 8/30/05 for an ad-free copy of opera.
2017/09/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/19    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:29 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>