Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:27 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
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2005/8/27-29 [Science/Biology, Health/Women] UID:39300 Activity:nil
8/26    Smallest free-living cell SAR11:
        http://www.terradaily.com/news/life-05zzzz.html
2005/8/27-29 [Academia/Berkeley] UID:39301 Activity:nil
8/26    http://tinyurl.com/cnpn7
        UC Berkeley Sather Tower from the satellite. Click on it a few
        times so that we can beat the Furds in the number counts!!!
2005/8/27-12/2 [Uncategorized] UID:39302 Activity:nil
8/27    Home dir quotas mysteriously went up again.  Who knew.  Happy birthday.
        - jvarga
        \_ 9/22 Fixed a bug in my cron script on keg.  Your quotas will now
           be correctly calculated and enforced.  Sorry bout that.  Luckily
           only one of you hozers abused it. - jvarga
2005/8/27-29 [Finance/Investment] UID:39303 Activity:nil
8/27    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050827/ap_on_bi_ge/greenspan
        Greenspan says housing will cool off. PREDICTION: Housing will go
        even higher for a year or so, simply because the market has a
        history of being defiant of what experts say.
        \_ As long as there is a "greater fool" that will pay even more,
           housing will keep going up. There will probably be another
           S&L type crisis when the bubbles start popping and that will
           probably mean the end to low mortgage rates for another
           generation or two.
           \_ Home prices will start to fall in Q4 of 2005 and reach
              a nadir on Nov 17, 2007. -Swami the Magnificent (from 03/05)
              \_ aus^H^H^HSwami the Magnificent, do you think there will be a
                 secondary recession soon? What do you think about the
                 US currency (vs. foreign currency)? And why do you hate
                 America? Are you a gay sympathizer? Do you like sodomy?
                 \_ No recession. Probably a further slowdown, but
                    no actual recession. I think the dollar is overvalued,
                    but then again so is the Euro. All my 401k money is
                    in overseas stocks, mostly developing economies.
                    I don't hate America, I love America. I consider
                    myself a patriot. I do hate idiot warmongering
                    Republicans, though. I am defintely a gay
                    Republicans, though. I am defininetly a gay
                    symapthizer. I love sodomizing yermom, though.
           \_ Stop lying!  There is no bubble!  Lalalalalalalala!
        \_ Just tell Chinese stop buying those treasure notes that is hurting
           America!
2005/8/27-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:39304 Activity:nil
8/27    Korea looking to sell some fighters jets for $100 each:
        http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200508/kt2005081519485168040.htm
        \_ That's awesome.  Only if I have a place store it...
        \_ Shipping not included
2005/8/27-29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39305 Activity:high
8/27    There are 3000 pro-war anti-Sheehan protestors on tour, with lots
        of television broadcasts paid for by moveamericaforward. So, where
        are Cindy's ads? Poor liberals can't afford expensive broadcasts?
        Secondly Cindy's campaign seems so disorganized, with no clear
        financial backers. The first link to her web site says "Donate."
        This is sad. We fucking liberals are apathetic and pathetic need to
        get out and counter moveamericaforward's mega Cindy-bashing campaign.
        \_ Nonsense.  She's got a catered camp funded by http://moveon.org and the
           rest of the usual suspects.  Go STFW for 5 seconds to find out
           who is funding her.
        \_ The Swifties are going to try and character assassinate her, too.
           \_ Cindy was camping out in a ditch for the first week before people
              started to organize around her.  No one is "funding" Cindy.  If
              there were no one else there, she would still be.
        \_ The Swifties are going to try and assassinate her, too.
        \_ The Swifties are going to try and character assassinate her, too.
           Let's see if that works out for them. So far, it has not:
           http://www.pollingreport.com/national.htm#Bush
           \_ Honestly, what's there left to assassinate with Ms. We Are
              Waging Nuclear War In Iraq?  She's her own worst enemy, imo.
                -- ilyas
              \_ And so is our ilyas, but we still lurve him so!
              \_ People tend to see in her what they want to see:
                 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1466555/posts
                 You are pro-War, right?
                 \_ I am pro-yermom.  I think the characterization of that lady
                    as a nut is pretty spot on.  This 'people see what they
                    want to see' line is weak.  She is a nut.  Do I get to
                    call you a liberal nut apologist now, ausman? -- ilyas
                    \_ Sure. Liberal nut apologist is a fair
                       characterization of me. -ausman
                       characterization of me. Did you even read the
                       Freeper article? -ausman
                       \_ I think you should give it a rest.  I remember you
                          were calling Cato right-wing big business lackeys
                          due to their funding sources.  Since people's agendas
                          are fully determined by their funding (according to
                          you), we have all we need to know about Sheehan just
                          from that, right?  Except you seem strangely
                          silent about Sheehan's funding, preferring to talk
                          about public opinion being split.  I mean if you
                          want to know the reasons people aren't even-handed
                          or 'see what they want to see,' I don't think you
                          have very far to look.  My characterization of
                          Sheehan is that she is a nut exploiting her son's
                          death for political ends, who in turn is being
                          exploited for political ends.  For the record, I had
                          not a single bad thing to say about Sheehan until
                          she finally opened her mouth. -- ilyas
                          \_ Ilya, she's been in the media since at least May.
                             She spoke to Conyer's meeting on the Downing St.
                             memos.  You've complained about a couple of
                             passages.  If you think that's the sum total of
                             what she has said, you're jumping the gun.
                          \_ In the political world, I think it's usually
                             pretty telling where the money comes from,
                             especially when its origin is from large,
                             politically charged entities.  To be in denial of
                             this is to be in denial about the realities of
                             how politics work in this country.  Of course,
                             I think you probably aren't in denial, but you
                             seem a little hasty in your accusation of ausman's
                             how politics work in this country.  Of course, I
                             don't think you are in denial, but you seem a
                             little hasty in your accusation of ausman's
                             hypocrisy wrt bringing up sources of funding.
                             (in Sheehan's case, it's so blindingly obvious
                             In Sheehan's case, it's so blindingly obvious
                             where her political bias is, I have a hard
                             time seeing why any sane person would need
                             confirmation via her monetary backing.  -mice
                          \_ To tell you the truth, I have not really bothered
                             bothered to do any serious research on Sheehan's
                             positions. All I really know about her is that
                             she lost a son in Iraq and is now protesting the
                             War outside of Bush's ranch. Which is a perfectly
                             legal and acceptable thing to do. If she starts
                             to write something of serious intellectual note,
                             say in the New Yorker or The National Review,
                             I will read it and decide what I think of her ideas
                             As far as I can tell, you think anyone opposed to
                             the Iraq war is a "nut" which means about 2/3
                             of the populace now. Sure, she is supported
                             by http://moveon.org and Michael Moore, they are on
                             the same page politically, at least with regard
                             to the War in Iraq. Is everyone supported by
                             http://moveon.org a "nut" in your book? John Kerry,
                             for example? And how the heck is she being
                             "exploited for political ends"? Who is exploiting
                             her? If you willingly work with someone else
                             for the same political end, you are not being
                             exploited, you are forming political coalitions.
                             One further thing and why I will not "give it a
                             rest." If you disagree with Sheehan then attack
                             her positions. Do not follow the tried and true
                             Right Wing tactic of character assassination.
                             This is what they did to Clinton, Kerry, Schiavo's
                             husbande and now they (and you) are trying with
                             Sheehan. If her ideas are so weak, you should be able
                             to demolish them without resorting to questioning
                             her sanity. -ausman
                             husband and now they (and you) are trying with
                             Sheehan. If her ideas are so weak, you should be
                             able to demolish them without resorting to
                             questioning her sanity. -ausman
                             \_ No, I think someone who says we are waging a
                                nuclear war in Iraq is a nut.  I actually have
                                no problem with her position per se (being
                                anti-war), I have a problem with _her_, more
                                specifically what she says.  As I said, I had
                                no problems with her at all until she opened
                                her mouth.  My position is similar to someone
                                who doesn't like freepers because they are nuts,
                                not because what they believe in is stupid
                                (freepers can hold perfectly defensible
                                positions on a number of issues). -- ilyas
                                \_ Okay, now that I think about it some more,
                                   I can see that if you honestly think she
                                   is insane, that it is obvious how she is
                                   being exploited. I haven't read enough of
                                   her to know if she is or not. Do you base
                                   your assessment of her on extensive readings
                                   of her ideas or on one out of context
                                   quote on the motd? -ausman
                                   \- believeing we are waging nukular war
                                      in iraq as am epirical fact is about as
                                      in iraq as an empirical fact is about as
                                      insane as believing in changing water
                                      into wine, transubstitution, astrology,
                                      creationism, or fat reducing creams,
                                      and is about as ignorant as not being
                                      able to locate the pacific ocean on a
                                      globe ... in fact know knowing the diff
                                      globe ... in fact not knowing the diff
                                      between DU bullets and nukular weapons is
                                      probably more forgivable. so sheehan
                                      is in a lot of company if not necessarily
                                      quality company. pat roberson is who is
                                      shocking, not cindy sheehan. --psb
                                      \_ The people that generally refer to DU
                                         use as nuclear warfare know the
                                         difference.  It may be a crudish over-
                                         statement, but they've at least got
                                         some research to back up their health
                                         concerns over its use.
                                      \_ This is not an excuse an english
                                         speaking american could use, but
                                         Al Jazeera reported that the U.S. had
                                         used a nuke at one point in Iraq. It
                                         was the same bullshit as typical lies
                                         on foxnews: put it up long enough
                                         for morons to believe, but take it
                                         down in time to still make it look
                                         like a mistake.  I did not personally
                                         see this, as I don't know arabic,but
                                         it was pretty well documented at the
                                         time(shortly after the initial
                                         invasion).
                                      \_ I don't think everything lumped under
                                         astrology is necessarily insane, the
                                         influence of the moon on the biosphere
                                         is pretty well documented. -- ilyas
                                         \- and this needs no response. --psb
                                      \_ Do we know Sheehan actually had DU
                                         bullets in mind when she talked about
                                         nuclear war?  Do we cut her slack
                                         nuclear war?  Or do we cut her slack
                                         because we are sympathetic to her
                                         cause?  Would we be as forgiving of
                                         some freeper bogeyman or even jblack?
                                         \- you can be too stupid to be put
                                            to death by the state, but not
                                            too stupid to vote or have a
                                            right to free speech.
                                            \_ The question is not whether one
                                               can be too stupid to have a
                                               right to free speech.  The
                                               question is whether one can be
                                               too stupid to be taken
                                               seriously.  The question is also
                                               whether we invent excuses for
                                               Sheehan because we agree with
                                               her.
                                               \- i dont think she is an
                                                  expert on middle east
                                                  policy. is she any more
                                                  clueless than the large
                                                  numbers who believe WMDs
                                                  were found or saddam and
                                                  osama sed to have pool parties
                                                  together? or is she any more
                                                  insane than the "a zygote
                                                  has a soul" crowd? i dont
                                                  think so. she is a figure
                                                  of pathos, not logos, to
                                                  put it in "greek" terms.--psb
                                                  \_ Are motd types apologists
                                                     for WMD-believers?  For
                                                     Osama/Saddam theorists?
                                                     For soul zygote types?
                                                     Then why excuse Sheehan?
                                                     All animals are equal, but
                                                     some animals are more
                                                     equal than others?
                                                     \- the "excuse" isnt
                                                        categorical. i doubt
                                                        sheehan knows anything
                                                        about measure theory
                                                        but i have no problem
                                                        with her right or
                                                        inclination to sit at
                                                        the side of the road
                                                        ranting. micahel moore
                                                        probably isnt much of
                                                        a historian but as an
                                                        film maker he has a
                                                        certain talent as a
                                                        rhetorical terrorist.
                                                        i think the immediate
                                                        pullout view point is
                                                        dumb and unethical
                                                        but i think the ethical
                                                        position is to have
                                                        BUSHCO consigned to the
                                                        dustbin of history but
                                                        since that is not going
                                                        to happen, i'm not
                                                        displeased to see things
                                                        a little hot for BUSHCO
                                         \_ Hey ilyas, don't tell us about
                                            the stars.
        \- "Various polls have shown that erosion of war support has been
           faster in Iraq than during the Vietnam War in the 1960s."
           http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9084651/page/2
           What do you guys have to say about this?
2005/8/27-29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39306 Activity:nil
8/27    Is there a web site that'll give me statistics and historical charts
        on the progress of the increasingly maimed and dying soldiers in
        Iraq and Afghanistan? I was reading this web site that says Iraq
        war has the lowest fatality rate (only 10% of wounded soldiers
        dead) vs. Vietnam (with 24% wounded dead).
        \_ http://icasualties.org.  In relation to past wars, yes, casualty rates are
           lower, prob because of tactical and medical advances.
        \_ that makes sense.  we have better technology. i bet we have a
           higher percentage of soldiers coming home with non functioning
           limbs, if only because in previous wars, they would have did.
2005/8/27-29 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:39307 Activity:nil
8/27    How's this for a frivilous lawsuit?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050827/ap_on_re_us/creationism_lawsuit
        \_ i still want credit for the 5 on my AP Christianity test
2005/8/27-29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39308 Activity:moderate
8/27    Told you the Bushi'ites were going to turn violent:
        "In one heated moment, members of the pro-Bush crowd turned on
        what they mistakenly thought were a group of anti-war protesters,
        cursing them, threatening them and tearing down their signs.
        A police officer rushed the group to safety."
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050827/pl_nm/iraq_usa_protest_bush_dc
        They see their dreams of world hegemony crumbling before their
        eyes, so they are taking out their frustration on the nearest
        available target, right now Cindy Sheehan.
        \_ So what became of the reports of people attacking wounded vets
           at the vet hospital?  Did the anti-Bush attackers see their
           dreams of world hegemony crumbling before their eyes, so they
           took out their frustrations on the nearest available target,
           right now some wounded vets just back from Iraq?
           \_ URL? If true, this is disgustig.
              \_ I assume the OP was referring to the Code Pink protest
           \_ URL? If true, this is disgusting.
              \_ I assume the pp was referring to the Code Pink protest
                 outside Walter Reed.
                 http://atlanta.craigslist.org/pol/93345236.html
                 (CNSNews.com is down, but this seems to be a faithful quote.)
                 http://csua.org/u/d6f (CNSNews)
                 \_ If this is the case, pp is nicely twisting "protesting at
                    army hospital" to "attacking wounded vets".  Nonetheless
                    it's a pretty inappropriate place for a protest.  -John
            \_ When have the "anti-Bush attackers" ever dreamed of global
               hegemony. Your message is muddied a bit by your pointless troll.
               \_ Uhm, hello?  Marxism?  Read a book some time.
               \_ A hell of a lot of very financially conservative people think
                  Bush is a mistake in every conceivable way.  Anti-Bush ==
                  Marxism is about as stupid as you can get.
                  \- without defending marxism as a accurate description of
                     how national/global economies work, it is a fairly
                     interesting theory ... you learn something about what
                     it means to come up with a theory in the social sciences
                     and stucturally it has a lot in common with ideas that
                     in terms of substance it is totally unrealted to, if not
                     antithetical [for example what is the relationship of
                     natialism to other forces, be the class-consciousness, or
                     "globalism"/bond market etc]. see e.g. response to
                     T FRIEDMAN by JOHN GRAY. --psb
                     \_ Thanks for the tip -- John Gray's article is quite
                        good. -- Tom "Metropolitan" Townsend
                                 \- you may wish to read the article on
                                    Whit Stillman's "world view" reference in:
                    http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/BLOG/MetropolitanJudgment.txt
                  \_ STW for Code Pink.  Context.  Thank you.
                     \_ From a Code Pink website:
                        "CODEPINK is a women initiated grassroots peace and
                        social justice movement that seeks positive social
                        change through proactive, creative protest and
                        non-violent direct action."  Sounds like Evil Monolithic
                        Communism to me.  "positive social change" is probably
                        a code word for teaming up with the UN to take your
                        guns away and seep your precious bodily fluids.
                        \_ And this doesn't scream "MARXIST!" to you?  Okey
                           dokey!  Good job at reading between the lines.  If
                           Halliburton's website described the company as being
                           an environmentally friendly, peace loving, do-no-
                           evil place, you'd believe that too, huh?
                   \_ IF YOU ARE NOT WITH US, YOU ARE WITH THE TERRORISTS! -GWB
2005/8/27-29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39309 Activity:nil
8/27    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4192004.stm
        Why didn't these anti-war grannies join Sheehan, or the other way
        around? See, this proves that us liberals simply can't unite. It's
        sad. I've lost faith in the Democratic party. Fuck it. -disillusioned
2005/8/27-28 [Reference/Religion] UID:39310 Activity:nil
8/27    Poll. c=caucasian, a=asian, j=jews, b=black, X=christian,
        m=muslim, A=arab, Aj for arab jew, .=anonymous, what do you
        think the effect of Gaza and West Bank pullout will be:
        more peace: c
        more conflict because Pallies are now
                emboldened and want more: .
        same: .
        \- i think the palestianian leadership conducted themselves
           faily poorly during the pull out. they would have looked a
           lot more civilized if they had issued a statement along the
           lines of "as persons deprived of our right to our land ourselves
           we udnerstand what a visceral issue this is for the settlers and
           the state of israel [ok maybe you cant say that] and even thought
           it is mandatory to move forward to restore our patrimony, we
           recogize this is a traumatic time" etc. --no supporter of israel
           \_ You know, there might be a reason the Palestinians didn't issue
              a statement that would make them appear a lot more civilized.
                -- ilyas
        \_ I guess it depends on how you define peace.  I think that Hamas
           has certainly been emboldened and wants more.  They have
           clearly stated as much publicly.  On the other hand, the
           internal Palestinians strife is escalating, which could lead to
           real civil war.  I think the Isrealis will see more peace
           simply because they are now totally seperated from the
           Palestinians and the Palestinians have now lost they main
           methods of attack.  The Isrealis can simply put up their wall
           and say, "screw you Palestine."
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:27 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>