Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:16 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2005/8/16-17 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:39133 Activity:high
8/15    So I am suddenly in the market for a new car.  Looking at the insight
        and prius. pros, cons? urls with facts to backup opinions? The insight
        is listed at 55+ mpg, whereas the prius is 45.
        \_ Looks like you can't wait.  If you could wait until Jan 1st,
           2006, you can benefit from ~$2500 tax credit (not deduction)
           for the Prius (thanks for the new Energy Bill).  This should
           for the Prius (thanks to the new Energy Bill).  This should
           offset some of the price premium.
        \_ The Prius is often cited as excellently engineered in all respects.
        \_ The Prius is more expensive (~ $5K) than other similarly sized
           cars. Even if gas goes to $5 per gallon, you will have to buy
           1000 gallons to make up the difference. You might want to consider
           that when making your choice (its not like a Corolla/Civic are
           bad cars on their own, they get ~ 30 MPG).
           \_ You also have to include tax and feel-good benefits.
              \_ There is a tax benefit to driving a prius? I didn't know
                 that. Do you know how much it is? (Other than the Jan 1
                 benefit mentioned above).
                 One thing I read about in the paper today is that w/ a
                 Prius you can drive in the carpool lane, which makes the
                 Prius look a bit more appealing financially.
           \_ What about the Civic Hybrid?  -- !OP
              \_ The Civic Hybrid is ~ $4K more than a regular civic so
                 you probably want to take that into acct. Also the Civic
                 Hybrid isn't as efficient as the Prius so it will take
                 you longer to recover your investment.
                 I guess my main concern re Prius/Civic Hybrid is that
                 I'd have to keep the car well past 70K miles to make
                 back the money and I've never kept a car w/ that many
                 miles on it b/c I've always started to run into probs
                 around 65K miles.
        \_ I'm not knowledgeable enough about the details to informatively
           comment, but, philosophically, I think the Insight is the
           more appealing car. The Prius seems to be trying to be all
           things to all people -- it's more or less a normal Corolla size
           automobile with a hybrid engine; the Insight, OTOH, seems willing
           to give up some of the "conveniences" of normal automobiles for
           better fuel effeciency (Insight is quite small, has 3-cylinder
           engine, etc), and I appreciate the gutsyness. There was a good
           review of the Insight in ArsTechnica a few years back:
                http://arstechnica.com/reviews/3q00/honda/insight-1.html
           \_ Yeah, except the Insight is hella gay, duuuuude.
              \_ Just paint some bimbo pics on the sides.
                 \_ Even better - bimbo mudflaps.
                    \_ Talk about mudflaps, my girl's got 'em.
                       \_ Tell her to go get a buttlift.
                          \_ Or an anal bleach!
2005/8/16-17 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39134 Activity:moderate
8/15    Meet the new German NPD, same as the old German NSDAP:
        http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/08/16/neo_nazis/index.html
        \_ Somebody cracked one of their servers and found records detailing
           donations from illegal neo-nazi groups (the NPD is a "legitimate"
           party) and anonymously forwarded it to the German cops, who don't
           have the same restrictions on acquisition of evidence... -John
           \_ hmm.  Does that qualify as "white hat" or "black hat" hacking?
              \_ Good question.  The guys who did it told me they felt pretty
                 white hat.  Makes you think, though.  -John
2005/8/16-17 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:39135 Activity:high
8/16    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/hispanics_immigration
        "A majority of Hispanics born in the United States don't think illegal
        Hispanic immigrants should be given drivers' licenses, according to a
        new poll."
        \_ C'mon, folks, it's a sting operation.
           \_ That would be kinda funny.  "Here's you driver's licence
              sir, and here's your border patrol officer."
              \_ Seriously, you don't see this happening?
                 \_ In a word, no.
        \_ You don't need borders!  How Cold War!  Become a Citizen of the
           World!  Get your Global Work Permit!  Travel!  See the sights!
           When there are no more borders, there will be no more war!  Hey,
           what is the EU policy on non-EU people trotting about?  How about
           Switzerland?
           \_ We have a treaty with the EU to allow bilateral work permits
              very easily.  The overprotected, overpriced, mollycoddled Swiss
              markets could use it (just like the overprotected, &c &c US, Jap
              and EU markets could use some competition) as we're seeing an
              insane amount of super-qualified people coming in from Germany
              and Austria who are fleeing statist ham-handedness there, and
              really raising the quality bar here.  And although the EU
              is a bureaucratic shitpile, its very existence is sure motivating
              the Poles/Czechs/Balts and friends into becoming lean, fast-
              growing economies.  Global economics is not a zero-sum game, to
              be ruined by protectionist tax-horny command-economy government
              hacks.  May I suggest a cabin in Montana?  -John
              \- I am for sure going to have fun watching "libertarian" geeks
                 sort themelves out into various flavors under the pressure
                 of globalization. i wonder if there will be an attempt to
                 vincent chin somebody in a pathetic geek way.
                 \_ Partha once went on record as saying libertarians are
                    libertarian because this allows them to excuse the way
                    they naturally feel, or something like that.  I am sort of
                    they naturally feel, or something like that.  I was sort of
                    idly wondering if John is going to show up one day and
                    accuse Partha of overgeneralizing and 'wrongthink,' but
                    then I realized it's only chic to do that to me. -- ilyas
                 \_ Dey took ur' jerbs!!
                 \_ We'll just take our families and go start american food
                    restaurants in Calcutta.  That'll show 'em.  -JOhn
                    \_ Genuinely curious... Do they sell Garden Burgers in
                       India?
                       \- no, in india it is easy to find vegetarian food
                          that actually tastes good. you dont have newly minted
                          vegetarians who "miss" the hamburger experience.
                          and burgers are generally mutton or chicken if
                          memory serves. serving beef in a high profile way
                          [like if you are mcd] is just asking for trouble.
                          \_ Spoken like someone who's never tried a really
                             good veggie patty.  I am not a vegetarian, and
                             I appreciate a good beefburger, but there is
                             such a thing as a really tasty veggie burger.
                             \- when i go to india, kolkata in particular,
                                i basically become a vegetarian because the
                                vegetarian food is better than about every-
                                thing else and cheaper too. so while i dont
                                typcally eat vegetarian burgers here, on
                                statistical grounds this is pretty defensible.
                                many of the vegetables here are really
                                expensive or bland, especially tomatos.
                                in much of india since you buy fresh vegetables
                                at the market every day, they may look funky
                                but they are vastly better than about any
                                non-chez panisse level vegetables here.
                                i think a better comparison is something
                                like say flan ... flan will not take off
                                in india anytime soon because there is nothing
                                to cause the flan market to go through
                                a "hyper inflation" phase. it's not a matter
                                of whether flan is good or bad ... it's not
                                enough better than domestic sweets. pizza
                                on the other hand is an innovation that is
                                taking off because of marketing and novelty.
                                in spite of the pizza being bad. so yes if
                                for some reason a company making really
                                tasty veggie burgers dumps millions of
                                dollars into mkting, then maybe they will
                                taken off, but that's not going to happen.
                                \_ I have a colleague originally from around
                                   about Hyderabad who went to the Bombay
                                   Inst of Tech. He complained (at length)
                                   about American hamburgers. His reasoning was
                                   the home of the hamburger (his idea, not
                                   mine) should have a huge variety of meat and
                                   non-meat hamburgers available. This because
                                   he bragged about the huge variety of
                                   specifically non-meat burgers available in
                                   (I presume) Bombay and Hyderabad. He
                                   also, IIRC, said meat hamburgers were
                                   uncommmon. That said, he may simply have
                                   been whinging since he was dealing with some
                                   pretty bad culture shock at the time.
                                    -- ulysses
                                   \_ There is a huge variety of meat and
                                      non-meat burgers available here in
                                      the USA.
                                      \_ Yup. One place has Ostrich burgers
                                         I think. Forgot the name.
                                         \_ Fuddrucker's does. It's also
                                            common to see turkey, buffalo,
                                            salmon, and many varieties of
                                            soy/veggie burgers.
                                      \_ There's also an awesome place on the
                                         main square in Sonoma that does a
                                         duck burger with foie gras.  It's
                                         really good.  -John
                                         \- well i think those still dont count
                                            as "common". mcd, bk, carls jr,
                                            wendys etc are mostly beef, some
                                            chicken options, one fish item,
                                            but no lamb, mutton, goat, turkey,
                                            pork [maybe turkey] etc. contrast
                                            to say a typical mexican facility
                                            with al pastor, carne asada,
                                            ground beef, chortizo, carnitas,
                                            tongue etc. same for a deli ...
                                            lots of options compared to a
                                            typical hamburger facility. --psb
                                            \_ Look in a Wal-Mart for what the
                                               "common" American eats. The
                                               places you mentioned have about
                                               as much food value as Viet Cong
                                               sandals cut from truck tires.
                                               As for Indian food, didn't the
                                               head of Congress' youth wing
                                               once chop up his gf and hide her
                                               in a tandoori oven?  Mmh!  -John
                                               \_ The discussion was about
                                                  common hamburger options,
                                                  not what is healthy or
                                                  common to eat.
                                                  \_ Yes, and the options
                                                     meantioned were of Viet
                                                     Cong truck tire sandal
                                                     food value, allowing for
                                                     crack about average
                                                     Americans' dining habits,
                                                     Wal-Mart and tandoori
                                                     dismemberment.  Capisce?
                                            \_ Almost every fast food
                                               joint offers a chicken
                                               sandwich/burger. Jack in
                                               the Box had the Turkey
                                               Jack. Once you stray from
                                               the big chains, though, you
                                               easily find the rest. Turkey
                                               burgers are especially easy
                                               to find, as are veggie burgers.
                                               Even the big chains have had
                                               veggie burgers at various
                                               times. I think some still do.
                                            \- BTW, one reason traditional
                                               burgers and pizza in india
                                               are ass is because you cannot
                                               get good "cheej". i dunno if
                                               you will "get" this if you dont
                                               know india, but i thought this
                                               was both hilarious & insightful
                                               in the horrible VS Naipaul way:
                                               http://csua.org/u/d26
                                               [you have to click fwd to the
                                               first page of text]. you may
                                               also wish to see:
                                               http://csua.org/u/d27
                                               for more fun with Sir Vidia.
                                      \_ There is lots of good vegetables
                                      \_ There are lots of good vegetables
                                         at reasonable prices here. You
                                         just have to go to Farmer's markets,
                                         like the one at the Civic Center in
                                         San Francisco. Organic produce from
                                         Whole Foods is also quite good, but
                                         pricey. -ausman
2005/8/16-20 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:39136 Activity:nil
8/16    I'm looking to write a Java app which initiates and maintains hundreds
        of simultaneous, low-bandwidth HTTP connections.  The prevailing
        answer for simultaneous HTTP connections seems to be use the
        HttpURLConnection class and one thread per connection.  I'm wondering
        if there's a better way, like maybe some way to have buffered reads
        and writes from low-level sockets using only a pair or I/O threads.
        Is this possible in Java or do I have to use something like a thread
        pool?
        \_ Since Java 1.4, you are supposed to be able to use something
           equivalent to select(), as you would with BSD sockets. It's
           all in the java.nio package:
                http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/nio
           \_ Thanks! -op
2005/8/16-20 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:39137 Activity:nil
8/16    http://www.itv.com/news/index_1677571.html
        http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1548808,00.html
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
        The innocent Brazilian killed in the tube shooting was a total fuckup
        by police.  No baggy jacket, no jumping over the turnstile, no running
        until he saw a train was about to leave, probably no order to stop.
        \_ But you've got to admit, he did have the audacity to not look white.
           \_ And he wasn't one of the good shades either.
                \_ Okay, I'll bite -- What's a "good shade"?
        \_ my problem is that London police doesn't suffer any consequences
           as result.  There are *NO* incentive for them to be careful
           before they unload all the rounds into one's head.
2005/8/16-20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39138 Activity:nil
8/16    Funny.  Sheehan didn't have a problem taking a picture with Bush last
        year: http://www.csua.org/u/d1z
        \_ You're not very bright, are you?
        \_ Yeah, being in shock at the loss of your son is hilarious.
           \_ Funny as in odd, not as in hilarious you fucktard.
              \_ Someone's sarcasm detector is on the fritz.
        \_ wow, she is obviously a hypocrite!
           \_ No, just a nut.
              \_ Hi jblack!
              \_ It is not Sheehan that is the crazy one here:
              \_ Perhaps it is not Sheehan that is the crazy one here:
                 http://csua.org/u/d2b (Yahoo News)
                 \_ Interesting article. You know, during the last days of
                    Germany, Hitler tried to moved troops that no longer
                    existed and talked about a final pushback that would
                    make his dream come true.
                 http://csua.org/u/d2c (Capitol Hill Blue)
                 \_ Heh.  Damn Nazis. -- ilyas
2005/8/16-20 [Industry/Jobs] UID:39139 Activity:nil
8/16    GUI OS on 8-bit Commodore 64!
        http://www.zimmers.net/geos
        \_ Looks remarkably like KDE.
        \_ BSW used to hire great numbers of UCB coop students.  They were
           in the building right next to the Berkeley BART station.
           \_ BSW, later GeoWorks and then Geoworks, used to hire only co-ops
           \_ BSW, later GeoWorks and now Geoworks, used to hire only co-ops
              and only from Cal for engineers in its early days.  The first VP
              Engr started as a co-op.  It was 1995 (when the dot-com boom
              started?) when it had to resort to hiring fresh grads and hiring
              from other schools.  The company was in the penthouse of the
              Great Western Bank building next to BART.  The bank logo at its
              entrance was, incidentally, "GW".
              \_ I remember all the typefaces were named after streets in
                 Berkeley.  There was  a pc version that I ran on my first
                 laptop--a tandy 286.
                 \_ I think the latest version is available through
                    http://www.breadbox.com
2005/8/16-20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39140 Activity:nil
8/16    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050816/ts_nm/bush_protester_dc
        Take that, you godless liberals!
        \_ "we respect the troops, so we're gonna break your symbols of
           respect for the troops..."
        \_ One of the neighbors shot at her, too. How long till she becomes
           a martyr for her cause?
           \_ The guy fired a shot in the air.  Even in this age of grade
              inflation and relaxed standards, you still have to die to
              become a martyr.
              \_ I give her a week before one of the deranged Freepers
                 blows her brains out.
                 \- Would you like to make a bet? --psb
                    \_ No need. The neighbors are petitioning to ban
                       protesters. This really IS Bush Country.
                       \_ A neighbor (a relative of the guy who fired the shot)
                          has offered them space on his land to stay.
                       \- i am sort of suprised ROVECO hasnt found some
                          iraqi mom whose son  was shredded or boiled by
                          S HUSSEIN to "spontaneously" reply saying
                          something like "your son didnt die in vain, pls
                          dont abandon us now. we love bush." --psb
                          \_ Mom and Son probably got crushed to death
                             together, you know the more the merrier
                             principle of torture and despotism.
2005/8/16-17 [Health/Disease/AIDS, Health/Disease/General] UID:39141 Activity:high
8/16    Oregon passes law requiring a prescription to get Sudafed as a way of
        "controlling" the meth problem:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_he_me/meth_bill
        How long will this idiotic War On Drugs policymaking last?  Don't
        they realize all the manufacturing will just move (or is already
        moving) to Mexico, where you can get a lot more than just sudafed
        over the counter?  Plug one hole and thirteen more open.  When will
        they ever learn?
        \_ "While increasing amounts of methamphetamine comes in from Mexico,
           bill supporters say it could sharply reduce the number of home meth
           labs"
           \_ Great, more outsourcing.
        \_ There is a lot of property damage and theft that result from local
           meth production.  I don't like this measure, but apparently it has
           helped in other places.
           \_ Isn't there a free market solution of some kind?
              \_ yeah, how about a "meth tax" where the government
                 takes 10% of every hit, sells it, and uses the proceeds to
                 pay for the hotels and apartment buildings that get blown
                 up by meth labs.  -tom
                 (The funny part is, some people will think this is a good
                 idea).
                 \_ Making meth labs a legitimate business will probably be
                    enough.  How many apartment buildings do conventional
                    businesses blow up? -- ilyas
                    \_ I don't think so.  Free market models presume that
                       people are basically rational.  Meth heads aren't.
                       \_ Uh, what does the fact that meth heads (or most
                          people) are not rational have to do with making
                          meth labs a legitimate business?  Current legitimate
                          businesses are often misused by people being
                          irrational (fast food, etc), yet this does not imply
                          we should make the businesses illegal, nor does it
                          imply McDonalds is going to start exploding things.
                            -- ilyas
                          \_ I think that's 'legitimate', man.  I bet that's
                             just a lame troll-hack.    -Benefit of the Doubt
                             \_ No, I think that's how jctwu thinks.
                                Sadly. -- ilyas
                                \_ ilyas, what have I done this time? -jctwu
                                \_ I'm not sure what ilyas is talking about,
                                   so I'm asking him off motd.  In any case,
                                   I'm pretty sure ilyas either mispelled
                                   on purpose, or he didn't know the right
                                   spelling.  I don't think that's related
                                   to why he brought up my name, though.
                                   I think he was just annoyed at my
                                   "fight the power" comment. -jctwu
                             \_ Uh, what do you bet is a lame troll-hack?
                          \_ just your ass.
                       \_ If you get into an argument with someone about
                          whether methamphetamine manufacture should be legal
                          or not, you've probably already lost.
                          \_ Errr, no.  Try the Economist special issue on
                             legalizing drugs for a nice refresher course.
                             \_ http://csua.org/u/d2e
                             \_ hey man, i'm not arguing with you ...
                                fight the power!
                             \_ Parse the words exactly as they're used,
                                please.  To make it crystal clear:
                                "legalizing drugs" = No
                                "methamphetamine manufacture" = No
                                And now the new ideas:
                                Marijuana = Yes, for medical use
                                Which implies:
                                /Some/ currently illegal drugs = Yes
                                Which makes no specific comment about:
                                Cigarettes / Alcohol = Yes/No, Good/Bad
                                Incidentally, what I've written above is
                                also the same as how many, many Americans
                                feel, so none of this is new.
2005/8/16-17 [Reference/Military] UID:39142 Activity:kinda low
8/16    Two plane crashes and one earthquake together.  The sky is falling.
        \_ they should make the cockpitsbullet proof, chemical proof, and
           have a separate safety feature for decompression.
           \_ many airliners (737s included) keep cabin emergency O2 and
              cockpit emergency O2 separate.
              \_ Why is the Greek authority so sure at this early stage that
                 it's not a terror act?  I remember there was a movie where
                 someone injected something into the AC system, making everyone
                 else unconscious.
                 \_ They're not sure it's not a terror act.
                    \_ I saw article yesterday saying they had ruled it out.
                 \_ Didn't this particular plane have a number of emergency
                    decompressions in the past?
           \_ My theories:
              (1) Either the pilot and co-pilot were taken by surprise
                  (perhaps by another crewmember), or one of them off'd the
                  other one.
              (2) AC system really fucked up and pumped nasty gases much
                  faster into the cockpit than the cabin.  Unfortunately,
                  the cabin was locked at the time.
        \_ planes should also have an emergency over-ride.  If necessary,
           ground control can remotely control the plane.
           \_ If terrorists on the ground take over the control room ......
              \_ have a safety feature where there has to be agreement
                 between two or more locations in very different locations.
                 this would be a secret.  This system would also help
                 prevent hijackers from taking over planes and crashing
                 them into buildings.
                 \_ "Each ship has it's own combination code..."
                    "...to prevent an enemy to do what we're attempting; using
                     our console to order Reliant to lower her shields..."
                    "Assuming he hasn't change the combination. He's quite
                     intelligent."
                    \_ ST:TNG?  Which episode?
                       \_ Are you just trying to bait Star Trek movie guy,
                          or do you seriously not recognize the ship name
                          Reliant?
                 \_ Sounds like a good idea.  It probably can't prevent
                    hijackets from crashing the plane onto ground (he can smash
                    everything in the cockpit with a suitcase), but it can
                    prevent crashing into specific targets.
2005/8/16-20 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/Physics] UID:39143 Activity:nil
8/16    Once again, the onion news story sounds no sillier than the reality:
        http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4133&n=2
        "Even critics of Intelligent Falling admit that Einstein's ideas about
         gravity are mathematically irreconcilable with quantum mechanics. This
         fact, Intelligent Falling proponents say, proves that gravity is a
         theory in crisis."
        \_ The differential equation on the screen is awesome.
           \_ What does it read?  It's too small for me.
              \_ dx/dt = 1 Cor. 1:10
                 \_ Sweet...
                 \_ Haha!  This shows how silly the Evangelical "scientists"
                    are.  Gravity is related to acceleration, which is dv/dt
                    not dx/dt.
                    Oh shit!  I forgot that this is The Onion!
                    \_ tom's axiom 1
        \_ What Newton said, in his own words:
           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity#Newton.27s_reservations
           \_ Makes sense to me.  That's why people say he came up with the
              "law of gravity" versus "a theory of gravity".  Not saying that
              a theory is a full explanation, but at least it's more in that
              direction.
2005/8/16 [Uncategorized] UID:39144 Activity:high
8/16    OKAY, HERE IT IS [Re: Lt. Col. Shaffer/Able Danger]
        http://corner.nationalreview.com
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:16 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>