Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:14 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/8/14-15 [Recreation/Pets] UID:39114 Activity:moderate
8/14    Hey motd, I've found myself in possession of an 8-week-old kitten
        with a very sweet disposition (rescued it from a mother that was no
        longer interested in caring for the runt of the litter).
        Unfortunately, I don't think I can afford to keep a pet for any long
        duration.  I'd rather not just bring it to a shelter, so if anyone
        here knows of a good home where I can get it adopted, contact me.
        BTW, I'm going to get it its first round of shots on sunday, and
        will likely get it (a male) fixed on monday.  That's really about as
        far as my budget and time can be stretched.  I can wait for a week,
        maybe two, but after that it's off to the shelter.    TIA.      -mice
        \_ Moved this back to the top in the hopes of catching any sodans that
           have lives and don't check motd on weekends.                 -mice
           \_ I noticed you deleted my "trash" comment (which was to ridicule
              ilyas' moronic "gas chamber" comment).  Restored.
              \_ Actually, no -- I didn't delete your pointless trash
                 comment.   Sorry.      -mice
              \_ Actually, no -- I didn't delete your trash comment.  If
                 you're going to make accusations of this sort, at least be
                 sure of your information.     -mice
              \_ Look at yourself.
              \_ Look at yourself.  Here is a thread trying to save a life, and
                 the only way you can contribute is by 'ridiculing' a post
                 someone else has made.  You aren't offering to help, or
                 posting something useful, you just sort of pee on the thread
                 and move on.  Pathetic worm. -- ilyas
                 \_ Whatever.  Comparing euthanizing animals to gas chambers
                    was peeing all over humanity.
                    \_ Seek therapy, son.
                       \_ Whatever dad.  Without referencing 1940s Germany or
                          modern death row I think the allusion to gas chambers
                          is overwrought and offensive.
                          \_ You take yourself waaaay too seriously, son.
        \_ This is in the LA area, yes?  I will ask around.  For the love of
           god don't send it to the gas chambers. -- ilyas
           \_ Actually, thanks for the clarification:  I'm in the BA, but
              I do have friends in socal, so I *might* be able to deliver
              ht kitten and visit with my socal friends in one trip.
              Of course, I'd prefer not to leave the sf/ba.  Gracias, ilyas.
           \_ Yeah, just throw it in the trash instead.
           \_ Actually, thanks for the clarification:  I'm in the BA.  But...
              I do have friends in socal, so I *might* be able to deliver the
              kitten and visit with my socal friends in one trip.  Of course,
              I'd prefer not to leave the sf/ba....  Gracias, ilyas.   -mice
                \_ Hey mice, try in Walnut Creek. The Animal Rescue
                   Foundation is not really a shelter so they treat their
                   animals like royalty. Lots of adoption happening there-jthoms
           \_ Yeah, just throw it in the trash instead.
2005/8/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39115 Activity:nil
8/14    Are any CSUA'ers in Saudi Arabia?  I have a really stupid question
        (need to find out the price of Movenpick ice cream, don't ask.)  I'd
        really appreciate it if someone could help me out.  -John
        \_ John, I know someone ex-EECS in Lebanon (I know it's not Saudi) if
           that would help? -jthoms
           \_ Nah, really need SA, but thanks anyway!  -John
2005/8/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:39116 Activity:low
8/14    Wait a minute.  LBJ's approval rating in March 1968: 41 percent.
        Public's approval of LBJ's handling of Vietnam War at that time:
        32 percent.  Bush's approval rating now: 42 percent.  Public's
        approval of Bush's handling of Iraq: 34 percent.  These ratings
        are nearly identical, yet LBJ was forced to resign and Bush is still
        treated as Mr. Popular?  I just don't get it.
        \_ Bush may well have as many people hating him as LBJ but I've never
           met anyone who really loved or trusted LBJ, whereas the pro-bush
           camp has blind, drooling adoration of their leader.  As far as I
           can tell, bush-haters and bush-lovers are balanced, while LBJ lacked
           the balance.  He was simply hated or tolerated.
           \_ The alternative to Bush is less appealing to many.
        \_ iirc, LBJ didn't resign, he chose not to run for a 2d term b/c
           he was afraid he wouldn't get re-elected. (His "1st" term was
           really JFK's 2d term).
        \_ LBJ did not resign. Your history is lacking. Your bias
           \_ You are correct: LBJ did not resign; he declined to run for
              re-election. LBJ did this because he had a shred of decency.
              W wouldn't decline to run for re-election (if he could run for
              re-election in '08, which we know he cannot) because he has
              no honor or decency. -!op
        \_ Heh, consider Chirac's approval rating.  I think the most popular
           rulers these days are Putin and Chavez. -- ilyas
        \_ Why are you so obsessed with polls?  About once a week for the last
           2 months, you've posted something like this.  Polls don't matter.
           They don't even matter during an election season.  They sure don't
           matter to a second term President.  You're aware he can't run
           again, right?  He hasn't exactly gone out of his way to win over
           the American people to any of his policies.  He's not big on PR,
           bright lights, cameras, and microphones.  Whatever else happens,
           he won't be remembered as The Great Communicator.
2005/8/14-15 [Uncategorized] UID:39117 Activity:nil
8/14    To whoever recommended DocBook a short while back, thanks. It
        was exactly what I was looking for. But quick question. What
        is the route you used to generate documents? I'm using DocBook XSL
        with xsltproc and the Apache FOP engine. It works but I wanted to
        know what the recommended way was.
        \_ I made the original suggestion but its been so long
           since I actually used it I don't remember what we used. so I
           don't really have a recommendation. sorry. but good luck. -rory
2005/8/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39118 Activity:high
8/14    "You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll
        stop the terrorism," Sheehan declares.
        Sheehan, who is asking for a second meeting with President Bush, says
        defiantly: "My son was killed in 2004. I am not paying my taxes for
        2004. You killed my son, George Bush, and I don't owe you a
        give my son back and I'll pay my taxes. Come after me (for back taxes)
        and we'll put this war on trial."
        Who was it who was criticizing Bush for saying Sheehan wanted the
        troops out of Iraq?
        \_ Delusional. Terrorism will not end that way. In fact, you
           will encourage terrorism by giving them quarter. They must
           hunted down and destroyed like Black September was.
           \_ Delusional.  Hunting down terrorists and occupying Iraq are NOT
              the same thing.
        \_ So her son joins the military and dies. I don't think she has a
           \_ The president goes on a 5 week vacation, in the first week of
              which he gives a speech saying that her son and the other troops
              have died for a "noble cause".  She wants to know what that noble
              cause is.  I do too.
              \_ Fighting to defend your country, reason you signed up
                 should be good enough
                 \_ For Casey.  But for Cindy, she has EVERY right to scream.
              \_ I don't meet with any foreign presidents or sign legislation
                 on my vacations.  Don't know about you.
                 \_ No, but I'm not president.  I also don't take a vacation
                    in the middle of a large project I have the lead on. (Not
                    that I've bombed any defenseless countries lately, either)
                    \_ Defenseless?  So there are no coalition casualties?
                       Funny that.  You know he's been on this for 4 years,
                       right?  And that he has the same operational
                       capabilities in Crawford, right?  Moron.
                       \_ By defenseless (and you know this), I meant they had
                          no military to speak of and no way to threaten us or
                          their neighbors.  To defeat a country is much easier
                          than to defeat its people.
        \_ It's very telling that the Sheehan critics have no choice but to
           attack the messenger instead of the message.
           \_ What is her message? We pull out of Iraq and Palestine and
              the terrorists go away? That won't work, just ask Chamberlain.
              The only way this stops is when the terrorist realize that
              we will never stop coming for them and give up.
              BTW, she has no case re not paying taxes. Bush doesn't collect
              taxes, the IRS does via authority invested in it by congress
              which derives its power to tax from the constitution. Also,
              when one joins the military one ASSUMES the risk that one may
              Personally, I think Bush ought to meet w/ her, just to talk.
              She will probably yell and make a scene and all that. If he
              just sits there and acts calm and rational she will look like
              a total kook and people will stop paying attention to her.
              \_ What did Iraq have to do with the War on Terror before we
                 invaded?  Your argument is premised on a fiction.  Anyway,
                 it doesn't matter - all signs point towards Bush cutting
                 and running from Iraq by spring '06 - just in time to save
                 the Republican's asses in the Senate.
                 \_ Iraq is related to the war on terror but not for any
                    publicly acknowledge reason. After the fall of the
                    Taliban, Iraq and perhaps Libya were the only countries
                    willing to accept AQ. Since the logistics of getting
                    to Libya were probably beyond AQ's capabilities, Iraq
                    was the likely destination.
                    Also that whole democracy thing might actually make
                    the world safer for us.
                    \_ You need to provide evidence before making the claim
                       that Iraq would accept AQ.
                       \_ Iraq would not need to accept AQ. It is a big place
                          and Saddam had little control outside of the main
                          cities, so AQ could have moved in and camped out.
                          The difference w/ Iran is that the gov. does control
                          much/all of the country quite effectively and there
                          are enough people who "like" the west in Iran that AQ
                          would probably get ratted out like in Pakistan.
                          \_ A-fucking-mazing.  So, let me get this straight.
                             We had to go into Iraq because even though
                             Saddam was probably not working with AQ, they may
                             have been hiding out somewhere in poorly controlled
                             parts of the country, outside of his control.  So
                             we invade Iraq and replace Saddam with a weak
                             provisional government that can't even keep
                             control of the major cities.
                             \_ I am not arguing that the operation has been
                                conducted well, I'm arguing that the operation
                                COULD have had legitimate military objectives
                                and MIGHT have achieved security for the US
                                if carried out properly.
                                IF carried out properly.
                                Regardless of how well the operation has been
                                conducted, this lady has no case in arguing
                                that Bush killed her kid. Her kid volunteered
                                for a job in which the possibility existed that
                                he would get killed. He got killed. If he didn't
                                want to get killed, he shouldn't have signed up.
                                \_ I agree that it people who sign up for the
                                   army should be prepared to accecpt that
                                   signing up may lead to death (just as
                                   signing on as a fireman or fisherman can).
                                   I do *not* agree that that is the same thing
                                   as accepting getting killed for some
                                   total clusterfuck run by arrogant civilians
                                   who have demonstrably fucked up just about
                                   everything they could fuck up from day one.
                                   When a fireman dies in a collapsing building,
                                   that's a hazard of the job.  When he dies
                                   because of shitty, broken equipment and
                                   bad decisions by the town government, it's
                                   a whole different thing.  I also agree with
                                   you that invading Iraq could have made
                                   sense.  I'd love to live in a world where
                                   the neocon delusions could be made to come
                                   true, but sadly we don't.
                                   \_ Uh no, history has proven that joining up
                                      with the military has always had the
                                      hazard of dying at the whims of
                                      incompetant leaders. There's no news
                                      \_ So you don't mind continuing with
                                         incompetent leaders?  I do.
                                \_ In your fantasy dreamworld, there wouldn't
                                   be any terrorism in the first place.  The
                                   facts are: before invasion: No or
                                   insignificant AQ.  After invasion: Country
                                   filled with AQ.  Also, over 1800 Americans
                                   now killed in Iraq ... That is on track to
                                   overtake the death toll from 9/11, so a
                                   decision made by the neocons & Bush will
                                   most likely result in MORE Americans dying
                                   than the 9/11 attacks in the first place.
                          \_ No one is "ratting out" AQ in Pakistan. In fact,
                             if appears that they have set up their HQ in
                             \_ Have you ever been to Pakistan? The
                                fact that ANY AQ members have been
                                caught there is REMARKABLE. Unlike
                                in Afghanistan where they walked
                                around in the open, their movement
                                in Pakistan is getting more and more
                                restricted every day.
                                \_ No, I have not been to Pakistan, have you?
                                   The truth is that the Baluchistan region
                                   The truth is that the Waziristan region
                                   is growing more independent, not less and
                                   that AQ operations in the country appear
                                   to be totally unrestricted. What is your
                                   source for the opposite claim?
              \_ Meeting with her can only cause problems:  the media would eat
                 it up showing Bush as weak, plus it would set a precedent that
                 any crazy with a cause can camp out and get the President's
                 personal audience.
                 \_ "Crazy?" "Nutjob?" Any evidence of this, besides the fact
                    that she changed her mind?  Normal humans are allowed to
                    change their minds, you know.
                    \_ She's camped out, on a road, demanding to see the
                       president.  That pretty much identifies her as a crazy
                       \_ Her fucking son got killed.  Ask your mom how she
                          would react if her (I'm assuming) son was dead
                          because of an incompetent boss endangering him on a
                          {dishonest,wrong,stupid} precept and not being held
                          accountable at all.  -John
                          \_ She's still off her fucking rocker.  Having a son
                             die fighting for a cause you don't believe in
                             doesn't make you immune to being a nutjob.
                    \_ She disagrees with The Holy Imperial Bush, so she
                       is by definition a wingnut moonbat crazy.
                 \_ Anyone OUGHT to be able to get an auidence w/ the
                    President. Its not like he's some king anointed by
                    god to rule over use peons. In the old days, people
                    god to rule over us peons. In the old days, people
                    could walk right into the WH and talk to the president
                    w/o any sort of restrictions.
           \_ I'm attacking her because she's a nutjob.  I'm happy to discuss
              her 'message' with non-nutjobs.
        \_ How about this: no Gorelick/Clinton "wall" to block
           Chinagate investigations, Clinton actually actively
           pursuing terrorists after WTC1, Kenya, Saudia Arabia,
           Cole, millenium, etc., no 9/11, no GW2.  I think her
           anger may be misplaced.
           Of course this scenario is also possible: Carter doesn't
           abandon the Shah to the Soviet backed Islamicists in
           Iran, militant Islam never takes off.
2005/8/14-15 [Reference/Religion] UID:39119 Activity:low
8/14    Now for something totally frivolous. I was reading about the
        Knights Templar and how they were betrayed and murdered by
        the Pope and Philip the Fair and I thought wow that sounds
        a lot like Eps. 3 (Pope == Emperor, Philip == Vader). Anyone
        else see a parallel btwn the Jedi and the Knights Templar?
        \_ The were in general persecuted for sodomy.  Didn't catch that
           overtone in Ep. 3... but maybe I didn't look hard enough.
           \_  -John
           \- the analogy to philip le bel doesnt work. if you are interested
              in in this period, you may wish to read Les Rois Maudits, a
              7 book series by Maurice Druon, which is probably the best
              historical fic. series I have read. n.b. unless you read French,
              it may be a little hard to find in english [ucb lib has it].--psb
2005/8/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:39120 Activity:moderate
8/14    "We set out to establish a democracy, but we're slowly realizing
        we will have some form of Islamic republic,"
        Isn't this what the anti-war crowd predicted would happen
        two years ago? These guys are really slow. Really really slow.
        \_ no, it isn't.  they said "quagmire, vietnam, chaos", etc.
           and some said "theocracy".  "republic" wasn't on the list.
           maybe you have links that say otherwise?
           \_ I very specifically said that the logical thing to fill a
              power void in (formerly secular) Iraq was Islamic
              fundamentalism.  -tom
        \_ We don't have a democracy here in the US, why would we want it
           anywhere else?  (Note the difference between a republic and a
        \_ we have Democratic Republic. Islamic Republic seems good to me
           \_ Islamic Republic is a code word for theocracy, I thought.
              Iran is an Islamic Republic. SCIRI is returning Iraqi
              women to the veil:
2005/8/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Reference/Military] UID:39121 Activity:nil
8/14    Compare and contrast Cindy Sheehan with James Smith
        Media Bias: The Press, the Prez and the Parent
2005/8/14-15 [Uncategorized] UID:39122 Activity:nil
8/14    Any experts on SFF PCs?  I'm looking for a barebones that has S/Video
        output standard, 4 drive bays in total, and is very quiet, eg. using
        a heat-pipe for CPU cooling.  I seem to be able to find 2 out of 3.
        \_ How is 4 drive bays SFF?  4 drive bays sounds line a mini-tower
           to me.
           \_ There are SFF PCs with 4 bays total, just not ones with both
              other features.  The configuration is usually 1 ext 5.25, 1 ext
              3.5, 2 int 3.5. -op
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:August:14 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>