7/23 50% of Americans think that the the Atomic bombing of Japan
was a bad idea:
http://csua.org/u/ctr
Take the poll again in another 20 years and most of the people alive
during WWII will be dead, then it will be 70%. I'll bet in 1945 that
number was a lot lower. What percentage of Japanese think
bombing Pearl Harbor was a good idea? -ax
Put that in your pipe and smoke it emarkp -ausman
\_ My anonymous troll has a name! -emarkp
\_ On the flip side, this is what Japanese think of the Pearl
Harbor invasion:
http://photobucket.com/albums/y105/LordAzrael/Az/slanted.jpg
\_ The exhibit gets some key points wrong, but there does
seem to be some indication that FDR allowed Pearl Harbor
to happen despite some knowledge of a Japanese attack
in order to rally America behind a war that he WANTED
to join.
\_ Oh gawd, the exhibit fucking sucks.
\_ Oh gawd, the exhibit fucking lies.
\_ Yeah, and the FDR forced Japan to commit Nanjing Massacare,
atrocities of Unit 731, and all the other good stuff it did to
other Asian countries. Oh, or was it the Chang Kai-Shek of the
Chinese govt that forced Japan to do those things? Also, Japan
was already at war with Britain even before Pearl Harbor. FDR
could have used the same excuse to declare war on Japan
\_ 50% of Americans voted for W.
\_ That, and the below bit about "not being able to find Japan on
a map" are my sentiments exactly. I'm glad someone's using their
brains tonight. -John
\_ What about Americans who were actually around back then?
\_ 50% of Americans can't find Japan on a map. The other 50% don't
know what a map is. Thanks to the teacher's unions for the
quality public schools that brought us here.
\_ thanks to the california senate which doesn't allocate enough
funds to the public school system and the people who voted for
prop 37.
\_ Schools are the biggest line item in the budget and CA
teachers are among the highest paid anywhere. There's money.
It's not a money issue.
\_ Even if it was the case the CA teachers are the highest
paid in the country, why would anyone want to teach
in CA? You wouldn't be able to make a decent living.
\_ Isn't California like 43rd on average spending per
pupil? Of course it is about the money. You can't
totally scrimp on spending like that and have
a good outcome. Teacher salaries are high, but
not on a purchasing parity basis (adjusting
for California's high cost of living).
http://www.rand.org/publications/MG/MG186
\_ The average spending per pupil number is not
meaningful. The fact is that CA spends almost 60%
of all tax revenues on education. Should it
increase to 90%? The fact is that the urban areas
of CA are difficult to teach in. Throwing money at
the problem won't help. King/Drew in LA has some of
the highest paid doctors and a large budget and yet
it provides far worse service than other hospitals.
The same principles are at work in education.
\_ California used to spend 4.5% of state income
on education, now we spend 3%. Not surprisingly,
the quality of the education has gone down. We
need to raise taxes.
\_ Uhm... Doesn't the state law say they have to
spend 40% of outlay on education, minimum?
\_ Where are you getting these crazy numbers?
\_ From the Rand report cited above. "In the
early to mid-1970s, California spent about
the same share of its personal income on
public education as the rest of the country
did, about 4.5 percent. However, in the late
1970s, the share of personal income that
Californians devoted to their public schools
fell to about 1.2 percent below the national
average and remained well below the national
average through 2000."
\_ http://www.pacificresearch.org/press/opd/2005/opd_05-03-03li.html
\_ http://tinyurl.com/7vxl7
\_ Ok that's nice n all but has nothing to do
with total state outlay to education. The
State is paying 40% of the total budget at
a minimum, by law. How much more of the
budget would you like to spend on education
in this state? At what level of budget
spending do you think we'd magically have a
real school system again? You're just
playing with statistics that favor your
"pay my mom more money!" position. I've
*never* heard or seen anyone, reputable or
not, use a "percentage of personal income"
measurement to determine anything before.
Ever. Join the rest of us using a useful
number and we'll talk. In the meantime,
the evil teacher's unions can take a hike.
\_ Exactly. CA has a higher income. Why
does the % matter? Likewise,
spending per pupil. If I have a
school district of 10 and a school
district of 100 they both need, say,
an administrator. The district of 10
is going to pay more per pupil for
that administrator, but they are not
getting anything more for it. You
can't argue this with teachers,
though. They just like to bitch.
\_ Prior to prop 13, California had some of the best public
schools in the nation. Post prop 13, it ranks near the
bottom. It is at least a very strong data point.
\_ Once judges ruled that local money couldn't be spent
locally, Prop 13 was inevitable.
\_ Getting rid of Prop 13 won't help anything. Don't
believe the propaganda.
\_ Yeah, prop13 was so great. The schools were just
awesome... for anyone not getting taxed out of their
home and forced to move out of state.
\_ Spoken like either a true union cultist or someone who has
no idea how the teacher's unions work in this country.
\_ spoken like someone who went through public schools and
saw almost every helpful and effective program for
connecting with students fought and eventually dissolved
because of financial reasons. Spoken like someone who
has family working in public education being jerked around
by an administration focused on standards based assessment
and transfered or laid off at least once a year due to
financial reasons.
\_ yes, everyone in teaching is just like your anecdotal
experiences. go look at how the unions behave and come
back and shed a bitter tear about all those poor
teachers who just want to educate the next generation.
\_ actually, every teacher I know winds up spending
hundreds to thousands of dollars each year on books
and office supplies that the school system refuses
to pay for.
\_ They can deduct this on their taxes. It sounds
to me like they need to take this up with their
school district. The money is there, but teachers
are such pathetic whiners I can't blame most
districts for tuning them out at this point.
\_ The same article says:
"Two-thirds of Americans say the use of atomic bombs was
unavoidable"
So it was unavoidable BUT it was still a bad idea? Hmm.
So it was unavoidable BUT it was still a bad idea?
\_ The same article says a number of other things but taking a
single line out of context makes some people feel good.
\_ Okay here is some context. Preceding lines:
"President Truman decided to try to end the war by
dropping atomic bombs ... Those bombings led to
Japan's announcement on Aug. 15 that it would
surrender."
And then the article says 2/3 of Americans felt that
the use of the bombs of unavoidable - ie there was
no way to end the war OTHER than to use the A-Bomb.
The line following says that 20% of Japanese agreed
that use of the A-Bomb was the only way to end the
war while 75% felt that the war would have ended
w/o the A-Bomb. Then comes the sentence so promiently
quoted above. I find it inconsistent to not approve
of something that you find was the ONLY possible
option.
\_ A lot of Japanese don't even know about Pearl Harbor. Japanese
textbooks only talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
\_ Do Americans now about the crippling naval blockade that
made the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor?
\_ But Japan attacked without declaring war.
\_ yea, America should continue to supply Japan with the
resources to undertake more Nanjing Massacres.
\_ The point was that it was something foreseeable.
\_ If not others, the 1970 Hollywood movie "Tora! Tora!
Tora!" by 20th Century Fox talked about all that. |
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