7/23    Woman branded by manhole cover sues:
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8666753
        \_ "[the woman] is entitled to compensatory and punitive damages
           because of Con Ed's "reprehensible and egregious failure and refusal
           to protect the public from this manifestly clear and present danger."
           ... to protect the public from this manifestly clear and present
           danger."
           It's exactly this sort of frivolous bullshit that should be the
           reason people's right to sue should be revoked. Seriously,
           is anyone here able to take the woman's side? Hopefully this
           will be thrown out the minute a judge sees it.
           \_ If I had sued for exactly 1 dollar of damages every time I did
              something retarded on my skateboard and got a bruise, scrape,
              sprain, break, cut, or headwound, I'd be a fucking millionaire.
              Fortunately, all the skaters I knew thought lawsuits were evil
              and injuries were cool.
           \_ If the manhole cover was just any other cover and she just broke
              some bones, I wouldn't take her side.  if this searing hot
              some bones, I wouldn't take her side.  If this searing hot
              manhole cover over a steam pipe was barricaded and she ran
              through the barricates and fell and got burnt, I wouldn't take
              her side.  But in this case, I'll take her side.  Imagine some
              toddler walking on the cover and falling.  Or imagine someone who
              touches the cover while picking up something he drops.  This is
              not like ordering a cup of hot coffee and then sueing for
              injuries because the coffee is hot.  It is unreasonable to not
              expect hot coffee to be hot, but it is reasonable to not expect a
              manhole cover on the street to be burning hot.
        \_ duty?  breach of duty?  causation?  damages?
           Were there damages?  Yes.  The woman got burned.  branded even.
           Was it caused by the ConEd manhole cover being that hot?  Yes.
           Was it caused by her falling?  Not necessarily.  She could have
           fallen on plain asphalt or concrete and just had abrasions.  That
           can argued to be an assumed risk of skateboarding or just walking
           down the street even.  Similarly, had the manhole cover not been
           so hot, she could have fallen on it and just say broken a bone or
           had impact injury.  Again, assumed risk.  It was a result of it
           being at the temperature that it was.
           Did ConEd breach any duties by having it there?  That's the
           question.  In essence, this is an unintentional booby trap.
           It can not distinguish between adult or infant, skateboarder
           or pedestrian.  Would it be any different if instead of being
           at high temperature, it were spiked?  or electrified?   It would
           be one thing if this were happening say in a underground accessway
           or in a ConEd shack.  But it's on a public road, a busy one.
           As always, the question is did aparty's breach of duty lead to
           damages on the part of the other party.  if so, was it simple
           negligence, gross (or criminal) negligence, or intentional
           action, or intentional action with intent to do harm?
           \_ ConEd's duty would be a duty of reasonable care under
              the circumstances.  So what were the circumstances?
              A man hole cover sat in the sun all day and b/c it
              was metal it got very hot - hot enough to cause burns.
              The duty of ConEd would be either to warn about the
              man-hole covers OR to provide covers which could not
              get that hot during a normal day.
              The duty was probably owed to the skater chick b/c
              it is foreseeable that anyone using the street could
              come into contact w/ the man-hole cover and be hurt
              by the fact that it was so hot.
              Whether ConEd breach their duty to the skater chick
              is a harder question b/c the burden to replace every
              single man-hole cover w/ a safer one or to warn would
              be quite high. However, the problem is that if this
              is a risk that the average person would not realize
              was present, ConEd may have breached their duty.
              As far as causation its pretty easy for the skater
              chick to show that "but for" ConEd's choice of metal
              man hole covers she would not have been branded.
              She can recover for other incidental injuries as
              well, but her main claim is for the branding. The
              fact that she could have been branded while merely
              walking down the street, helps her case b/c is makes
              the danger of the man-hole cover look much worse and
              minimize any contributory negligence defense that
              could be brought.
              She actually had damages in terms of physical pain
              and suffering from the burns. She probably suffered
              some amount of emotional distress from the injury
              as well as well as incuring medical costs for the
              treatment.
              While it is true that there might have been some
              assumption of the risk and contributory negligence
              on the skater chicks part, that would only lessen
              not elimiate her recover (most states now use
              comparative fault and reduce recovery based on
              % responsible).  ConEd's best defenses are public
              policy.  Imposing liability on ConEd for man-hole
              covers would (1) be crushing liability and (2)
              would make a socially important enterprise (ie
              sewers/electrical/roads) impossible.
           \_ This is probably simple negligence - ConEd would have a duty
              of reasonable care under the circumstances. Here the
              circumstances were that a man hole cover sat in the sun all
              day and b/c it was metal it got very hot - hot enough to cause
              burns. The duty of ConEd would be either to warn about the
              man-hole covers OR to provide covers which could not get that
              hot during a normal day.
              The duty was probably owed to the skater chick b/c it is
              The duty was probably owed to the idiot chick b/c it is
              foreseeable that anyone using the street could come into
              contact w/ the man-hole cover and be hurt by the fact that it
              was so hot.
              Whether ConEd breach their duty to the skater chick is a
              Whether ConEd breach their duty to the idiot chick is a
              harder question b/c the burden to replace every single
              man-hole cover w/ a safer one or to warn would be quite
              high. However, the problem is that if this is a risk that the
              average person would not realize was present, ConEd may have
              breached their duty.
              As far as causation its pretty easy for the skater chick to
              As far as causation its pretty easy for the idiot chick to
              show that "but for" ConEd's choice of metal man hole covers
              she would not have been branded. She can recover for other
              incidental injuries as well, but her main claim is for the
              branding. The fact that she could have been branded while
              merely walking down the street, helps her case b/c is makes
              the danger of the man-hole cover look much worse and minimizes
              any contributory negligence defense.
              In terms of damages she actually had damages in terms of
              physical pain and suffering from the burns. She probably
              suffered some amount of emotional distress from the injury as
              well as well as incuring medical costs for treatment.
              While it is true that there might have been some assumption of
              the risk and contributory negligence on the skater chicks
              the risk and contributory negligence on the idiot chicks'
              part, that would only lessen not elimiate her recover (most
              states now use comparative fault and reduce recovery based on
              % responsible).  ConEd's best defenses are public policy.
              Imposing liability on ConEd for man-hole covers would (1) be
              crushing liability and (2) would make a socially important
              enterprise (ie sewers/electrical/roads) impossible.
              \_ Woman who falls from skateboard != skater chick.  A real
                 skater would wear a manhole cover brand on the ass as a badge
                 of honor.
                 \_ Fine, replace skater chick w/ idiot. Makes no difference.
                 \_ Skater chick replace w/ idiot chick. I think that she is
                    an idiot to sue, but she may have a valid claim under the
                    tort law.
                    \_ If she can get some money out of it, wouldn't that make
                       her a "smart chick?"
                       \_ Even Beavis and Butthead can figure out how to call
                          some ambulance chasing bottom feeder.

7/23    jlee, Jason Lee, are you the same Jason Lee who went to Van Nuys High?
        \_ Uh, why don't you just use email?
        \_ Jason Lee sounds like a very common name.

7/22    Punch line is last sentence:
        Commissioner Ian Blair of the Metropolitan Police said the man, who
        was not identified, was "linked to yesterday's incidents" and had
        failed to obey police instructions to halt. ... Police officials told
        British reporters that the officers feared that the man, who was
        wearing a thick coat despite warm weather, had explosives concealed on
        his body and was about to detonate them amid the crowd in the station.
        They acknowledged that they found no bomb on the body.
        [He's probably still guilty anyway, but it just goes to show you can
        be closely associated with the bombers and shot and not actually have
        a bomb on you.]
        \_ Maybe he was a decoy?
           \_ apparently not

7/23    Hello, I'm disillusioned and just want to vent. I'm in my
        30s and ~80% of my friends have gotten married in the last 6 years.
        I'm one of the few who is still single. I used to get pretty excited
        for my friends' weddings and I'd get really nice gifts. As it turns
        out, none of my former friends are now friends, or even acquaintances
        They're all too busy with their own little world and just don't
        have time to be your friend. Some don't even seem to want to be your
        friend anymore because their wives don't like you. A few got divorced
        and the gifts I gave them all went to THE BITCH with whom I don't
        even know well. Next month I'm going to another close friend's
        wedding and I'm pretty sure he's going to turn out like every other
        married man, so I decided to be smart this time. I bought him a a
        gift that's worth a measly $20. Happy marriage you ungrateful married
        "friends". Mr. Motd, thanks for letting me vent, you seem to
        be my only lasting friend.        -bnmg (bitter not married guy)
        \_ You know, after listening to your self-involved whiny rants on the
           motd, it occurs to me that perhaps your friends are avoiding you
           with good reason.  I've had very little trouble keeping in touch
           and spending time with my married friends -- even the ones with
           childen.  They may be a little busier, but it's not THAT hard...
           but then, my friends actually want to spend time with me.
        \_ Maybe you should think of them as farewell gifts.  Marriage
           makes you busy.  Have children even more so.
           \_ Exactly. Why give nice things when you'll never see them again.
        \_ I never understood why people bother to get gifts. I mean,
           it's not like they will have a conversation where they
           say "We got our <brand_name> pots and pans from Bob, he's
           such a sweet guy, let's invite him for dinner!" As a matter
           of fact they don't even remember where they got their fucking
           gifts from and don't even care. And even if they do appreciate
           it, you will never see them 1/2 of the time. Divorce rate is
           50%. Why bother.
           \_ don't splurge so much next time.
        \_ Just curious, did you start hanging out with your divorced
           buddies again?

7/23    I seem to remember there being some people here who knew a bit
        about landscaping issues:  I'm about to get sod put in my front
        yard and want to a small grass that doesn't grow fast (I hate mowing)
        my wife wants blades that aren't too thick and look good.  Advice?
        and what does "very little thatch" mean ?
        \_ If you live in Irvine, make sure you go through the home-owner's
           association approval process. Submit an application and make sure
           the type of grass match with one of the 2 they approve. Also
           if you're painting, you have about 4 colors to choose from,
           depending on the colors of your neighbors and their color
           matching schemes. And if you're not careful you'll get penalized
           $200 the first month for breaking any of their aesthetic rules.
           That's how much my sister got fined. Also do NOT install
           satellite dishes visible from the streets. Make sure your kids
           don't go out alone after 9PM, they have a night and weekend curfew
           for kids under 18.
        \_ Where do you live and how much sun does the spot get? Do you
           have sprinklers?

7/23    The site is pretty funny:
        http://petakillsanimals.com
        Includes PETA empolyees arrested for animal cruelty, etc.

7/23    I'm spending my first vacation in LA and I've already spent 1/2 of
        my time in traffic. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE 405 AND SANTA MONICA?
        The whole place is a parking lot. I can't even go above 10MPH
        and I need to queue 20 mins on the surface before I can even get onto
        the fucking freeway. Fucking vacation this is turning out.
        \_ The 405 is for going through LA on the way to somewhere else.
           I spent a weekend in LA 4th of July weekend and spent almost no
           time in traffic, seeing all the neighborhoods around Santa
           Monica.  Use street traffic.
        \_ That's what you get for coming to LA, sorry. Living here, I don't
           like it any more than you do.
        \_ Use http://sigalert.com to see when stuff is free.  Don't drive on the
           405 or 10 in general unles syou know what you're doing.  Otherwise
           you can take Olympic everywhere.
           \_ I HATE that section of the 405 between the 10 and 101.  It's
              pretty much never good except late at night.
              \_ It's pretty good in the morning going from the 10 to the
                 101. I used to take that stretch from UCLA to Granada
                 Hills area every morning and traffic was great. Going
                 towards the 10 sucked, though.
        \_ Where are you trying to get to/from? As previous person noted,
           stay off the freeways unless you have to be on them.
           \_ Getty, Long Beach, Monterey Park, etc. I go wherever my GPS
              tells me to go, and I can tell you that my $1200 GPS upgrade
              doesn't tell me how to avoid traffic. I've spent 1/3 of my
              life in my car, and when I get out, it is hot and humid.
              I don't know WHY you guys live in LA, but I know I'm never
              gonna move here. I feel sorry for you bozos in LA.
              \_ Remember that when you vote on a transit bond after
                 you come home.
              \_ Try the Huntington Library if you have time.  It's
                 really nice.  The place is a really cool botanic
                 garden with some buildings housing rare books,
                 including a Gutenburg bible (first printed book,
                 at least in the west).
              \_ It has been humid, but that is not typical. FWIW, I
                 really like LA. I've said this before, but LA is a
                 terrible place to visit and a nice place to live. In many
                 ways I find the Bay Area the opposite (nice place to
                 visit and crummy place to live) although I do like the
                 Bay Area.
        \_ As someone who lives down here now, some words of advice:
           1) You're on vacation, not at work.   You can afford to avoid
              traffic hour.  If you vacationed in San Francisco, would you
              fight with 880-S traffic going to San Jose in the morning?
              \_ When is traffic light in LA?
           2) In that same vein, take a look at http://sigalert.com(above poster).
              It's utterly invaluable for avoiding traffic.  Even better,
              if you have a treo or some mobile www browser, they have
              non-map based freeway speed lists by specific freeway.
           3) Learn to read a map.  Buy a thomas guide.  It's easy. Local
              roads are actually nice to take.  You get a sense of local
              businesses and culture.  Again, if you have to take the
              freeway, avoid traffic hourse, use sigalert, consider alt.
              routes (eg. 405-S or 110-S to Long Beach, 60-E or 10-E to
              Monterey Park).
           4) If you're going to MP, don't forget San Gabriel.
           -nivra

7/23    Oopsiedoodle!
        "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell
        Underground station by police on Friday 22nd July 2005, although he is
        still subject to formal identification. We are now satisfied that he
        was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005. For
        somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one
        that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets. ... The man emerged from
        a block of flats in the Stockwell area that were under police
        surveillance ..." -Scotland Yard
        "He spotted the plainclothesmen who were following him and fled into
        the nearby Stockwell subway station, one stop from the Oval station
        that was the scene of one of Thursday's explosions."
        "Witnesses report seeing up to 20 plain clothes police officers chase
        a man into Stockwell Tube station from the street ... Police challenge
        the man but he apparently refuses to obey instructions"
        "He apparently tried to get on a train before he was, according to
        witnesses, shot five times in the head by an officer with an automatic
        pistol."
        "... that officers had ordered the man to halt and had opened fire only
        after he failed to obey. But none of the witnesses reported hearing
        any warning."
        "Another cousin, Aleide Menezes, said in an interview with Brazil's
        national radio network that Mr. Menezes understood English well and
        would have understood the officer's instructions. Other relatives, in
        television and newspaper interviews, said the family was Roman
        Catholic and that Mr. Menezes had nothing to do with Islam."
        \_ He would've been 'connected' to next week's.
        \_ It apparently depends on what the meaning of "challenge" is in
           this case.
        \_ "This tragedy has added another victim to the toll of deaths for
           which the terrorists bear responsibility." according to BBC.
           Yeah blame it on the terrorists!!!
                \_ The terrorists made the cop fingers extra itchy.
        \_ It's sad, just like the vigilantes who sat on/asphyxiated some
           poor loon on airplane flights after 9/11.  We don't know (yet?)
           why he ran, but as easily as for being a Bad Guy it could have
           been that he is your garden variety illegal immigrant or that
           the plain-clothes SAS officers looked like an intimidating mob
           bent on some vigilante justice.

7/23    I just finished reading Citizen Soldiers by Stephen E. Ambrose.
        It's a sort of GI view history of WWII in Europe from D-day to
        V-E day.  I thought it was pretty good, very balanced and has a
        lot of good stories.
        \_ Look at The Good War by Studs Terkel, Once There Was A War by
           John Steinbeck, Guadalcanal Diary by Richard Tregaskis, Ernie Pyle's
           War, by Ernie Pyle, and any WWII cartoons by Bill Mauldin--I think
           you might enjoy them all tremendously.  -John

7/23    For ilyas: WWII as an MMORPG chat transcript.
        http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_20057151.asp
        \_ Far be it from me to be an expert on 'what kids these days say,'
           but this is Counterstrike slang.  Thanks though. -- ilyas
           \_ what?
        \_ no, an RTS chat transcript
        \_ As that host seems to be down, you might be interested in WW2
           online, and "Forgotten Hope", an excellent BF1942 mod.  Many of the
           kiddies in the forums seem to be reasonably knowledgeable.  -John
        \_ They got some order of things wrong (Barbarossa was before Pearl
           Harbor, for example) but it is still pretty funny.
        \_ ROTFLMAO!!! LOLZ!