Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:21 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/7/21-23 [Computer/Companies/Apple, Politics] UID:38745 Activity:low
7/21    Any recommendations for G4 Powerbook car charger? How about solar?
        You right wing crazies: do you want to overturn Mapp v. Ohio too
        and go back to Weeks v. US or Wolf v CO.
        \_ A friend of mine has the Kensignton universal adapter and he
           likes it:
           Re Mapp - think that it was rightly decided b/c I fundamentally
           mistrust the gov and think that the power of the gov over the
           people should be very limited.
           \_ I agree to a ceertain extent, but I would add that the purpose
              of government is to protect the rights of the people against
              the physical and economic tyranny of the few.
              \_ What does economic tyranny mean? -- ilyas
                 \_ I'm guessing he means Big Bad Bill Gates forcing him
                    to run Windows in order to play DX10 games.
2005/7/21-22 [Science/Electric] UID:38746 Activity:moderate
7/20    I have a 12V fan that takes 10W. If I power it using a 2000mA
        battery, how long does it take? Basically I don't have a good
        clue on the relationship between wattage, amp, and voltage. Thanks!
        \_ V = IR and P = VI. Didn't you take physics?
        \_ You probably have a 2000mAh battery.  That's 2000 milli-amp hours.
           Given that, you should be able to figure out how long the
           battery ought to last.
           \_ 144 minutes.  -nop
              \_ It's impossible to answer this question without knowing the
                 voltage of the battery.
              \_ Assuming that it's a 12V battery.
              \_ Really?  I get 25: --dbushong
                 \_ Dave, your answer seems to have the units of
                    25/minute.  Check your units.  I agree with nop.--PM
                    \_ Pfft.  Units.  --dbushong
                 \_ 144 minutes ... P = VI, 10W = 12V * I, I = .8333 amps.
                    2 Amp-hours @ .8333 amps will therefore take 2.4 hours
                    to run out making 144 minutes.
2005/7/21-22 [Politics/Domestic] UID:38747 Activity:low
7/20    To emarkp or whomever was making the comment about the judicial
        arm of the government being mainly interpretive, you're basically
        wrong. Since we live in a common-law country in reality much of
        the basis of day-to-day law as it exists today was created through
        the courts. The legislature and the executive branch can't be
        bothered with figuring out every little detail of law. Courts have
        traditionally been a font for much law, and much legislation is
        based on recommendations by commentators, such as the MPC and
        the UCC. Also, if you ever bothered to examine the constitution,
        it's a pretty short document and is merely a framework to
        setup our national government. The guarentees codified in the
        Bill of Rights were actually rather unnecessary, as they reflect
        English subject rights which were assumed to be part of common
        law. In fact, codifications such as the 2nd Amendment have caused
        nothing but trouble. There is a fiction amongst laymen that
        there are "strict constructionists" vs. "liberal interpretists",
        but in reality it probably is more accurate to view them as
        being essentially individualists vs. statist. The law is hardly
        a static thing, and even the simplist codifications are open
        to endless interpretations and expansions.
        \_ Indeed?  You are a very misguided man.  It is very interesting to
           me that you think a common law conception is enough, and
           codifications 'cause trouble.'  By your own dichotomy you would be
           a statist.  In fact, I suppose your entire post can summed up as
           'I am a statist.'  -- ilyas
           \_ I suppose your entire posting history on motd can be summed
              up as 'I am a moron'
              \_ You know, kais motd is entirely unreliable as far as
                 determining the exact identity of posters, but it is useful
                 for noticing trends sometimes.  Whenever you see a post like
                 that one of the people on the attribution list is a member
                 of the wall liberal goon squad.  Odd, that. -- ilyas
                 \_ Meh, not really.  That clique is pretty active on both
                    wall and motd, it seems.  The fact that they get picked up
                    by kais scripts shouldn't be surprising, especially
                    considering the variety of ways people use to view motd
                    in various editors, etc.  Perhaps you're just being overly
                    sensitive, esp in light of how badly you get treated here
                    and, apparently, on wall.
        \_ My comments were limited to SCOTUS--I wasn't addressing the entire
           judiciary.  Your assertion of "fiction" is ridiculous IMO (see, I
           can make assertions too!).  The constitution was written to limit
           the powers of government.  SCOTUS should interpret the constitution
           with that in mind.  I guess that means I'm "originalist" or
           "textualist" as well as "individualist". -emarkp
2005/7/21-22 [Science/Space] UID:38748 Activity:low
        Map of the moon landings
        \_ I dig the cheese
           \_ Ill.
        \_ QTVR panoramas of the moon:
2005/7/21-22 [Health/Men] UID:38749 Activity:nil
7/20    That first night of treatments caused us to rapidly break down many
        barriers and taboos. Up until 30 minutes ago Esther was merely a
        friendly co-worker that ate lunch with me. I didn't know much about
        her, nor did she have many details of my personal life.
        But within 60 minutes, that "casual friend" had fondled my cock
        and balls, discussed my penis size, talked about my semen production,
        watched a machine give me an erection, saw me rub lotion on it,
        ordered me to get a hard-on and measure it, then had me jerk off
        into a cup and give it to her. The entire situation was a bit surreal.
        It was almost like one of those outlandish stories you see
        posted on the Internet!
        \_ Yes! Penthouse forum guy is back! --penthouse forum guy #1 fan
        \- ^co-worker^associate
        \_ What treatments are you talking about?  Did I miss something?
        \_ I could see this happening if Esther were a fertility doctor
           and the protagonist was a co-worker in her clinic.
2005/7/21-22 [Uncategorized] UID:38750 Activity:nil
7/20    Quick note: Foundry Networks load balancers are steaming piles of dog
        shit.  Any manager considering buying one for your group should be
        drawn, quartered, shot, and then had his entrails fed to packs of
        rabid chihuahas.
        \_ What's wrong with them? I've always used Extreme Networks
           products for this, but it would be good to know why the
           competition sucks
           \_ Short version: bug-ridden.
              \_ What are the worst bugs?
2005/7/21 [Computer/Companies/Apple] UID:38751 Activity:nil
7/21    Any recommendations for a car charger for a G4 Powerbook?
2005/7/21-23 [Computer/Theory] UID:38752 Activity:moderate
7/21    Translated version of Aristotle's Physics:
        \_ This is what the kids should be learnen' in school!
           \_ I know you are making a joke, but in many ways Aristotle's
              ideas re Physics formed the basis for Newtonian Physics
              (iirc Aristotle came up w/ the idea of inertia, &c.) so
              teaching children where modern science came from would be
              a good thing.
              \- i think teaching science is more important than where
                 science came from. i thought the st. john's program where
                 you read principia and such was sort of weird. the ancient
                 notations are not reasonable.
                 \_ I agree that teaching science is the most important
                    thing, but many students learn things better if they
                    can follow the historical development of an idea.
                    I also think that the LACK of historical knowledge
                    is one of the biggest problems in this country.
                 \_ One of the huge problems with presenting modern mathematics
                    is a culturally ingrained insistence, among mathematicians,
                    to present the completed edifice of knowledge.  Personally,
                    I find math a lot easier to understand if one follows the
                    history of the field rather than the conceptual map of the
                    modern state of the field.  -- ilyas
                    modern state of the field.  Calculus, for instance, makes
                    a lot more sense when put in context of the physics people
                    were trying to solve by developing infinitesimals.
                    Similarly, group theory was developed to find polynomial
                    roots originally, etc.  -- ilyas
                    \_ I think the claim that that will help the average grade
                       school student is ridiculous.  The point of a math class
                       at that level is to teach a *skill*, not a set of facts.
                       I think a good math class at the gradeschool level should
                       be closer to a sports class than a history class.  Should
                       baseball players be forced to learn cricket before
                       they play real baseball?  Besides, neither the math nor
                       the physics taught in school is a "conceptual map of the
                       modern state of the field".  Math stops at Newton and
                       physics never goes past the 1930's.  I'm writing this
                       rant because I think fucking with the math curriculum
                       is very dangerous.  I know people who were in school in
                       the "New Math" era, and most of them didn't learn
                       *anything*.  And now there are a bunch of idiots trying
                       to get physics turned into some math-free freshman fluff
                       class so that highschool students can follow the
                       "logical" progression from physics to chemistry to
                       biology.  If you haven't heard of it, look up the
                       "physics first" movement.  Idiots.
                       \_ Look, I'm not saying that we replace phyiscs/math
                          w/ history lectures. Rather what I'm saying is that
                          when you teach a particular theory, just give 5
                          mins about where it came from. Some kids will just
                          get it better that way and the ones that really
                          care (yes, some of us NERDS actually did outside
                          unassigned reading for FUN) will go out and read
                          more aobut it.
                          more about it.
                          \_  Fine.  I have no problem with history of science
                              as supplementary material, and yes, I spent quite
                              a bit of time reading that sort of thing when
                              I was in school as well.  I was addressing the
                              issues of re-aranging the order in which subjects
                              are taught, and of teaching obsolete or otherwise
                              irrelevent technical material.  Also, the
                              mainstream curriculum should not be primarily
                              aimed at math nerds.  It should be set up so
                              a typical student can get competancy.
                              \_ You are barking up the wrong tree.  I am not
                                 a proponent of 'touchy-feely' education in
                                 the hard sciences.  I think to understand what
                                 I am saying, you should show up for an upper
                                 division or graduate math class sometime.
                                 For the record, I think kids should learn what
                                 a proof is (and start doing proofs) at the
                                 age of 10.  It boggles the mind that countries
                                 let citizens vote while not explaining to them
                                 what a coherent logical argument is. -- ilyas
                                 \_ Your patronizing idiocy is impressive, yet
                                    typical.  I was a math major, have done
                                    math research, and tought myself calculus
                                    in 7th grade, so you  can shove the
                                    attitude straight up your ass.  What is
                                    good for a math major is *not* the same
                                    as what is good for insuring basic
                                    competence in math for the typical grade
                                    school student.
                                    \_ Do you even know what you are ranting
                                       about anymore?  Did I insult your
                                       mathematical EPEEN, lafe? -- ilyas
                                 \_ I am confused. I was a math major and
                                    mathematicians (and physicists, chemists,
                                    psychologists, economists, and others)
                                    are fascinated with the history and
                                    usually make it part of their courses.
                                    Is your argument about grade school level
                                    classes, because college classes seem to
                                    already do what you are suggesting. --dim
                                    \_ If you mean a historical presentation
                                       of material, only 1 math teacher I had
                                       ever did this (my graduate logic
                                       instructor at UCLA).  Most berkeley
                                       math professors sucked as teachers, and
                                       presented the material poorly. -- ilyas
                                       presented the material poorly.  Btw, the
                                       UCLA guy's name is Itay Neeman.  He is
                                       awesome.  I recommend taking anything
                                       by him if you are ever at UCLA. -- ilyas
                                       \_ Perhaps your last statement is
                                          true, but it is irrelevant. A
                                          lot of classes in different
                                          subjects I had at Cal talked about
                                          Archimedes, Newton, Riemann, Euler,
                                          Descartes, Bohr, and so on.
                                          Since science is built on the
                                          foundations laid by others it is
                                          hard to present the material w/o
                                          mentioning these guys and their
                                          contributions. Perhaps I
                                          misunderstand what you mean
                                          exactly. --dim
                                    \_ My experience was very different.
                                       The only two teachers before Cal
                                       who talked about the history of
                                       science/math were my Jr HS Bio
                                       teacher and my Chem AP teacher.
                                       And they only briefly mentioned
                                       it. In Cal, only my 7c teacher
                                       talked about history and that
                                       was only bits about the A-Bomb.
                                       I had to take Math 160 (History
                                       of Math) to get any exposure
                                       to math/science history.
                                       My argument is that a historical
                                       perspective should be included
                                       at all levels. It shouldn't be
                                       at the expense of the material
                                       but rather as a way of supporting
                                       the material and perhaps making
                                       it a bit eaiser for students to
2005/7/21-23 [Uncategorized] UID:38753 Activity:nil
7/21    ok, China revalued its currency... happy now?
        \_ better buy some yuan, they say it's gonna climb in value even more
2005/7/21-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:38754 Activity:low
7/21    Historians suggest that Truman dropped the bomb in order to
        impress the Soviets not to force Japan to surrender:
        \_ historians also suggest Hitler lives deep under the
           sea with Flipper. - danh
           \_ And don't forget Elvis being alive.
        [ NOTE: MacArthur couldn't have advised Truman not to use
          the bomb, b/c he didn't know about it until it was dropped. ]
           \_ use WMD on civilians... hmm... what makes us different than
               those who we called "terrorist" again?
               \_ This simple little concept called 'war'.  Use a dictionary,
                  \_ n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence)
                     against civilians in order to attain goals that are
                     political or religious or ideological in nature; this is
                     done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear
                     [syn: {act of terrorism}, {terrorist act}]
                      Hmm, no mention of "war" in that one...
                     \_ Oh my god, you're so stupid or are being intentionally
                        obtuse.  You know, WWII?   The US involved in a war???
                        *sigh*  You win trollboy, I guess your trolling skillz
                        exceed my self-restraint.
        \_ Good.  We killed two birds with one stone.  I think it was both to
           impress he Soviets AND to force Japan to surrender.
           \_ And talk about how effective it was!  What are we doing wrong
           \_ I agree.  Saw a documentary on this too.  There was a very
              influential advisor to Truman who suggested this.
        \_ I saw a documentary on the Histroy Channel that the Japanese
           sccheduled to drop an A-bomb on the US west coast around the same
           time with the nuclear core coming from Germany via submarine.  The
           bomb was to be dropped by a plane with folded wings launched from a
           submarine.  It said we only beat the Japanese by 13 days or
           something like that, I don't remember exactly.
           \_ I've heard there were some plans, but I don't think they
              had a bomb, so it seems unlikely they could get it going in
              13 days.  Anybody got a link?
              \_ I agree.  I don't think they had the bomb.  Germany
                 was probably closer to having one than Japan.
                 \_ They were still totally off.  The OSS dispatched an agent
                    during a war to kill a top German scientist suspected of
                    working on their bomb in a conference in Stockholm (?) but
                    he didn't, as he didn't feel there was even a hint that
                    they were close.  Remember that the German bomb project
                    relied mainly on heavy water, and what was found after the
                    war was pretty far from completion.  -John
             \_ Heh, on the other hand, maybe the bomb design was just to
                have a Kamikaze guy hold two pieces of uranium and hit
                them together when he gets close....
2005/7/21-23 [Politics/Foreign/Canada] UID:38755 Activity:low
7/21    ssh tunnel between Canada and US:
        \_ Summary for those of us who don't want to register?
           \_ Try
           \_ Some dudes built a tunnel from Canada to the US to smuggle
2005/7/21-23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Recreation/Food] UID:38756 Activity:nil
7/21    My reading on London bombing 2:  Terrorists screwed up this time.
        Detonators went off, but explosives didn't.
        Yes, it is indicative of high vulnerability if they can get chemically-
        based detonators exploding in rucksacks at three subway trains and a
        bus AGAIN, even with all the security, two weeks after the last attack.
        \_ Also a higher possibility of copycat or amateur hour.
           \_ Uh, Al Qaeda _is_ largely a "copycat" organization.  Now watch
              out for the disappointed-looking bearded guy sitting behind the
              backpack.  -John
           \_ Especially that it's again three in the subway and one on a bus.
           \_ Probably this was just engineered by Rove to get him off the
              front page.
              \_ We all dance like marionettes to the flick of Rove's chubby
                 \- when you hear the price they paid
                    i'm sure you'll come and join the masquerade
                    one by one and two by two
                    past eight by tens in shattered frames
                    the players try to leave the room
                    frantic puppets on a string
                    and all the while the music sings
                    and still sometimes remember
                    the masquerade's forever
2005/7/21-23 [Uncategorized] UID:38757 Activity:nil
7/21    How do I get gcc to print out the include path?
        -print-search-dirs doesn't seem to print the include path,
        only the install/program/libraries... I need to see the
        include path... thx.
2005/7/21-23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38758 Activity:nil
7/21    Iraq war fatalities
        \_ I'm so glad the Internet did not exist during previous wars.
           It's so easy for us to sit here and make something "apolitical"
           about the significance of a "human death" as to give us the
           feeling of "importance" over our government. When the reality
           is, war and dying is the very nature of manunkind.
           \_ It's funny that the people that say these kinds of things don't
              react quite the same when it's not just "others" dying.
              \_ Enlisted Air National Guard. And you? You live in the
                 delusion that you will die a nice quiet life in your bed
                 of old age. There are no guarantees of that.
           \_ There is a kernel of conservative truth in this troll!
              Feed troll at your own risk.
2005/7/21-23 [Transportation/Bicycle] UID:38759 Activity:moderate
7/21 This is a little project I've been
        working on. Let me know if you guys think it's useful or if you
        just think I'm lamely spamming you. Thanks. -ccook
        \_ That's pretty cool, but why don't the prices show up in list view?
          \_ They should...maybe you found a bug. I'll look -ccook
        \_ very cool. I'm probably the only one here that wants this but I'd
           love to see Portland, OR added.
          \_ I'm doing Los Angeles now and looking at other cities too. It
             mostly depends on how cool the county officials are about data
             feeds. -ccook
        \_ Is there a way to sort based on other than Dist?
          \_ not yet. It's on the list though -ccook
             \_ Sort by date sold would be most useful.
                \_ Agreed. -- ulysses
        \_ This rocks. Can I tell other people about it? -ausman
          \_tell everyone you know -ccook
            \_ So, uh, aren't you going to exhaust your Google API license
        \_ for homes/apts still on the market,
           filtered from craigslist
        \_ Bug: try putting something in quotes as the address. I was trying
           to make it match a specific two-word street instead of doing an
           "or" of the words as it seemed to maybe be doing. (?)
          \_thanks. My input checks are primitive at best. It's on the list.
        \_ Nice! Totally, utterly cool. ccook rools!!! -kchang
        \_ The interface sucks. -tom
           \_ tom, have I ever mentioned that your temperament's wrong for the
              priesthood and teaching would suit you still less. -- ulysses
           \_ ccook, you really need to relate this to  biking, like the
              number of bike trails, bike shops, average bikes per weekend,
              etc. Otherwise, tom will say straight out that it sucks as
              it doesn't relate to the only thing in the world he cares
              about-- biking.
2005/7/21-23 [Computer/HW/Laptop] UID:38760 Activity:low
7/21    OK I've changed my mind about Thinkpads, after realizing that they're
        more expensive than other models, break just as easily, and IBM
        support sucks (have heard the same from colleagues at large corporate
        customers.)  Fuckers wouldn't even let me use a parking space to bring
        a laptop by their service center.  In the context of driver compati-
        bility hassles over the last few months, no more IBM for me for the
        foreseeable future.  I'm buying a Powerbook.  -John
        \_ This is precisely the switch I made a couple months ago.  Very
           happy so far.
        \_ If you look on for T42 reviews, you'll see one recent
           post where one guy got 7 dead pixels.  Out of 10 reviews, I guess.
           My boss's T42 from last year has one stuck red pixel in the corner.
           A grad student has one whose fan died.  All made in China, like,
           what, > 90% of notebooks?  The Fujitsu S series is still made in
           Osaka, though warranty service isn't as reliable.
           \_ It's not even the quality I'm so mad about--computers are fiddly
              and shit happens.  I just find their attitude absolutely
              deplorable, and their incompetent, customer-unfriendly way of
              dealing with people who pay a premium on devices expecting good
              service from a company that touts itself as so reliable for small
              businesses absolutely fucking horrid.  -John
        \_ good decision. -ibook user
2005/7/21-23 [Uncategorized] UID:38761 Activity:nil
7/21    The Austrailian PM gives an interesting, if long winded, response
        to a question on the london attacks
        \_ Imagine Bush coming up with such a response. HAHA!
2005/7/21-23 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:38762 Activity:nil
        Does anyone knows how to download these trailers to my home computer?
        \_ 1) mozilla/firefox with mplayer plugin
           2) get the html for the page, read the EMBED directives
           \_ Also, if the URL for the large trailer is:, the
              real download is typically
           \_ Easier than that is to do Page Info (Ctrl-I usually) in Moz/FF,
              then click on the Media tab.  It'll show up under type Embed.
              There's even a "Save As" button, but I've never gotten it to
              work.  --dbushong
        \_ use curl/wget to d/l the mov file. Then use hexdump/less to
           look in the file for the actual urls. Then use curl to d/l
           the real file.
2022/08/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:21 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>