Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:13 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2005/7/13-14 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:38589 Activity:low
7/12    Any MUD afficianados around here?  My buddy is teaching a class
        to kids in "interactive fiction" and wants a MUD or mud like app that
         - Easy and fun to learn.  Presumably it is fun when you get a lot of
           results for little effort.
         - Can be played on the net via a java applet, so parents can play it
           without installing anything
         - Illustrations with the text -- some of the text adventure systems
           allow you to include sound or
           text, and that would be a fun thing to add to the story telling
           aspect.  I.e. here's a picture, write an adventure related to it.
        \_ Why do you want to ruin their lives? -phuqyu
        \_ Why do you want to ruin their lives?
        \_ Weren't aaron / danh pretty active with arctic?  I also recall
           sowings mucking with Genocide a lot a while ago.  You have been
           eaten by a grue.  -John
           \_ I played mume and sojourn once upon a day.  Armageddon is
              probably the best roleplaying mud on the net.  You know, now that
              I think of it, I am not sure there ARE muds for kids.  Some
              infocom games might be appropriate, but they are not multiplayer.
                -- ilyas
              I think of it, I am not sure there ARE muds for kids.  -- ilyas
              \_ You could port griljor to Java.  Now _that_ would rock. -John
        \_ Check out  It was a mud company when I worked
           there, though it's branched out a bit in recent years.  I'd
           particularly recommend checking out the articles section:
           Skotos' games are fairly complex and aimed at older audiences so
           they may not be the best thing for a class oriented towards kids,
           but the articles have a lot of useful thought on game design in
           general, and muds in particular.  The articles might be useful food
           for thought for an educator crafting a curriculum.  I'd also
           suggest taking a look at the single player interactive fiction
           development tools.  On the easy and fun to learn front, you might
           consider rolling your own system in scheme or logo modelled after
           the 61A interactive fiction project. -dans
        \_ Oh yeah, now that I think of it, there was a lot of work done on
           Crossfire (which, although not strictly a MUD, still incorporates
           a lot of the elements of one.)  For some names, take a look in
           /csua/share/include/crossfire*  -John
           \_ I played mume and sojourn once upon a day. -- ilyas
                \_ there is no /csua/share/include
                   \_ /csua/share/aliases.include.  Sgt. Bobby Shaftoe says:
                      "Display some fucking adaptability".  And man locate, you
                      Cal student, you.  -John
2005/7/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:38590 Activity:low
7/13    Those of you who are interested in the Gaza Strip/Israeli conflict,
        here is an excellent site that shows you detailed information:
        FYI I got interested after the CNN article that says Israel is
        closing Gaza Strip to 8000 resident, also home to 1.3 million
        Palestinians. Before this I had no idea where and how big Gaza
        Strip was and what the 6 Day War entailed. I can't believe how
        much conflict can exist in a country that is [officially] barely 10
        miles wide, and 40 miles wide if you count West Bank.
        \_ Try reading the Old Testament Bible sometime.
        \_ The northern and the southern parts are much wider than 10 miles.
        \_ The northern and the southern parts are wider than 10 miles.
        \_ Remember what the French ambassador to England said: "this
           international crisis causes by that shitty little country
           Israel" -- it is amazing how a country so small with so few
           people can cause so many problems.  I guess we have all the
           major world religions to thank for that, parking so many
           holy sites on top of one another there ...
           \_ "caused by that shitty little country, indeed."  Ivory Coast,
              Rwanda/Burundi, WWII (yes), Vietnam, and I guess he's not heard
              of the Sykes-Picot agreement or the Suez crisis.  The phrase
              "you French twit" comes to mind.  -John
2005/7/13-15 [Recreation/Food] UID:38591 Activity:high
7/13    Motd Diet Poll: M, for married, S for single, + w, for working,
        s for student.  Most of the time, you eat:
        Fast food: Ss
        Lots of Meat, Fat:
        Lots of Meat (lean):
        Balanced (grains,veggies,meat): Mw, Mw, Mw, Mw, Sw
        Mostly Vegetables(or seafood): Ms, Mw, Sw
        Vegetarian: Ssw, Mw
        Vegan/raw foodie: Sw
        I don't know what I eat:
        \_ WTF happened to all the undergrads who eat nothing but fast food?
           \- i used to eat bacon, fat slice, blondies and 99cent burgers.
              however i had a super-fast metabolism then. i cant do that
              any more. now my metabolism has become super-efficient and i
              just eat 1.7 meals per day.
           \_ Their fingers are too chubby to type
              \_ But fast food is nutritious!  Ilyas told me so, dammit!
                 \_ Why is it that right-wingers get so worked up fast food?
                    What the hell does fast food have to do with politics,
                    aside from the fact that Republicans tend to be fat and
                    \_ I am a right-winger now?  And I get worked up about
                       fast food?  Are you one of those mental giants who
                       divide the world into two exhaustive and mutually
                       exclusive sets: People Who Think Like Me, and
                       Right-Wingers? -- ilyas
                       \_ I'm not worked up or right wing either -- I was
                          just poking mild fun at you.  I wonder what made him
                          decide I'm a rightwingnut... -ilyas-is-nutritious-guy
                          \_ Gaaaah, I am NOT nutricious, you cannibal!  You
                             stay away from me! -- ilyas
                             \_ Sounds like a bad 1970's era movie:
                                "Ilyas the Cannibal!!" -ilyas-is-nutritious guy
                    \_ 'Cause I'm an American dammit, and no pencil neck geek
                       should be telling me what to eat!  Now, drug prohibition
                       on the other hand, that's ok.
                    \_ Fast food -> big chains -> big corporations ->
                       Gourmet food -> local restaurants.
                 \_ Kiss my shiny metal ass. -- ilyas
                    \_ shouldn't this be "bite my ..."?
2005/7/13-14 [Recreation/Dating, Science/Physics] UID:38592 Activity:high
7/13    Color footage of Einstein:
        \_ obJewBaiting.
        \_ The bastard is smart but is still a bastard. "His letters reveal a
           tumultuous personal life, married twice and indifferent toward his
           children while obsessed with physics. Yet he charmed lovers and
           admirers with poetry and sailboat outings." What as ASSHOLE.
           I guess you can say that he's extremely brilliant and contributed
           greatly to mankind. He's also extremely horny and takes little
           responsibility for women he fucks and children he created.
           \_ Hey asshole.  Why do you keep deleting all replies to your
                \_ I didn't delete them, I just unintentionally overwritten
                   them since I don't use motdedit or vi
                   \_ I didn't kill him, I just shot him in the head.  Blame
                      the bullet.
                      \_ I think this kind of defense are actually used in
                         manslughter trials, sadly.
                \-FYI: one of einstein's children operated out of ucbberkeley
           \_ Frank Lloyd Wright did many of the same things: ignored
              children, had mistresses, obsessed with his work. Are there
              examples of geniuses who were consummate family men?
              \_ Yes, but FLW wasn't a Jew, which I suspect is what is really
                 clamping froth-boy's nipples.
                 \_ Pablo Picasso was never called an asshole.
                    Not like you.
                    \_ is that a punk rock reference? you're so cool!
                       \_ It is much cooler to accuse someone of anti-semitism
                          on the basis of absolutely no evidence.
                          \- there is a somewhat famous example in moral
                             philosophy that looks at paul gaugain chosen
                             by bernard williams [now dead but formerly
                             ucb phil] on this point ... "does success excuse
                             not honoring some claims people have on you".
              \_ iirc, Euler was a family man (twice married) but took care
                 of his kids, grandkids, &c.
                 Other examples from the top of my head: Bohr, Feynman,
                 Jefferson (and don't give me that crap about Jefferson's
                 slave kids, DNA testing shows that Jefferson's brother
                 was most likely the parent of the slave kids - Jefferson
                 gave his word to his wife when she died that there would
                 be no other women and Jefferson kept it).
                 Re Einstein - Two points:
                 (1) He is not a bastard as his parents were married at the
                     time of his birth.
                 (2) Even assuming the colloquial meaning of "bad person",
                     Einstein does not qualify. He may have been a distant
                     or less than ideal father (many non-genius fathers
                     fall into this category) but he never really neglected
                     his children. For example, he provided Mileva (wife 1)
                     and the children w/ all the money from his Nobel
                     prize. Also, he was basically separated from Mileva
                     when he started seeing Elza (wife 2). There is some
                     evid that he saw women on the side some years after
                     he married Elza but there is no proof that he fathered
                     any children w/ them (or that he dated anyone other
                     than Elza during his marriage).
        \_ meh
        \_ There was color movie back in 1943?
           \_ Ever seen Wizard of Oz?
           \_ This reminds me of the Calvin and Hobbes where Calvin asks his
              dad why old photos are always in black and white.
2005/7/13 [Uncategorized] UID:38593 Activity:nil
7/13    I read the top of motd as "Rove is planning to swap out scotch.CSUA..."
        Too much frothing I guess.
2005/7/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38594 Activity:low
7/13    "I say give Karl Rove a medal, even if Bush has to fire him.",2933,162335,00.html
        \_ stop stomping.
        \_ stop stomping other people's posts.
        \_ That's as silly as giving George Tenet a medal ... Oh wait ...
2005/7/13-14 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:38595 Activity:nil
7/13    Coffee shop opens in Utah without coffee, cigarettes, or alcohols
        because Mormons can't touch them:,2933,162317,00.html
        \_ I'd say that's totally gay, but Mormons don't like that either.
        \_ Well, sell to your customers.  It's not hard to get coffee and
           alcohol in Utah if you want them.
2005/7/13-15 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:38596 Activity:nil
7/13    Does gmail crash Safari in OSX 10.3.9 for anyone else?  This behavior
        seems to have appeared just today, and is repeateable - Safari
                I parsed this, as "post signed by safari@csua"  _/
        immediately exits after you login.
2005/7/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38597 Activity:nil
        One theory is that Miller is the leaker.  My theory is that she
        works for the CIA on WMD, and that's why she knew Plame.
        \_ That's a stupid "theory."  Actually, its a "wild assed guess,"
           probably spread around in attempt at FUD.
        \_ The CIA does not use journalist as a cover except in extreme
           circumstances. New York City does not qualify.
2005/7/13-15 [Uncategorized] UID:38598 Activity:nil 61%like:38555
7/13    Scotch coming down tonight after 7pm.  Read the official motd. - jvarga
2005/7/13-15 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:38599 Activity:low
7/13    Info about the 2006 Civic Hybrid:
        Verdict - Not as k3w1 as a Prius but not bad
        \_ Crap!  You know why? because it's still a fucking car.  Make a
           car that comsumes only trash, emits a sweet smelling mixture of
           oxygen and pure gold, and I'll still say it's crap because cars
           will always suck ass.  Making them pollute less is just a distraction
           from their infinite suckage.
        \_ Where is my Odessey Hybrid or Sienna Hybrid???
        \_ Look, they can use whatever fancy shmacy engine all they want
           but the fact of the matter is if their bottom line sucks then
           no one is going to buy their shit. When I say bottom line, I
           mean mileage, cost, and usefulness. If they can't get better
           mileage [than a Prius], lower price, and at lease same
           capacity then people will not buy their crap. Until Honda
           understands this, their Hybrid Civic will just sit in
           the dealer lot like they are doing now. -Honda Owner, Disillusioned
           \_ And the fact that they waited so long after Prius came out
              to produce their new Civic shows that they're way behind
              Toyota in hybrid technology. The new and improved Prius is
              coming out soon, which means whatever minor incremental gain
              Civic has over Prius will be only be short lived.  -pp
              \_ What's different about this "new" hybrid Civic from the
                 "old" hybrid Civic?
                 \_ The article OP posted describes the differences.
        \_ "Biggest novelty probably is that during light crusing the engine
           shuts down and the car can be powered by the electric motor alone.
           This is not quite like the Prius, which can use electricity only
           from a complete stop and travel relatively long distances at
           moderate speed on battery alone, but it's a step forward."  I don't
           get it.  Is it saying that the Prius way (being able to use
           electricity only from a complete stop) is better then Civic way?
           \_ Maybe they mean "which can use 'electricity only'", meaning
              the Prius is still more advanced.
              \_ Oops!  Pardon my reading comprehension.
              \_ Notice Honda keeps talking about how good their engine while
                 Toyota talks about a COMPLETE redesign, from new frames to
                 extremely good aerodynamic fairings to the integrated
                 electro/gas system. If you compare the HP output between the
                 Prius and the current Civic, you'll see that the Civic is
                 still primarily a gasoline powered car (over 85%) while the
                 Prius balances power between the engine and the motor. This
                 is the same with Honda Accord, where they get their
                 efficiency primarily through their efficient engine. In
                 another word, the Prius is a truly hybrid car, whereas the
                 Honda hybrid is still primarily a gasoline powered car. And
                 with Toyota's employee and R&D size that is easily 3-4X size
                 of Honda, it is understandable why Toyota is kicking ass.
                 Toyota to Honda is like Intel to Cyrix.
                 \_ well, they're both "primarily a gas powered car"
                 \_ but toyota will never be an elite rice car
2005/7/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign, Computer/SW/Security] UID:38600 Activity:nil
7/13 (
        "Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified
        information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses
        any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not
        authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the
        information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the
        United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert
        agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined
        under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."
        ... so, what do you think?  I don't see "name" in the above, just
        "identifies", so I guess it depends on what the meaning of "identifies"
        is.  A lot of it is also intent and foreknowledge.
        \_ Rove's claim that "I didn't know her name" is totally irrelevant.
           Identifying someone as "his wife" uniquely establishes her
           identity, except possibly in Utah.
2005/7/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38601 Activity:moderate
7/13    So Molly Ivins makes another mistake in her retraction (but to her
        credit she did retract it):
        She claims: "The high-end estimate of Iraqi civilian deaths in this war
        is 100,000, according to a Johns Hopkins University study published in
        the British medical journal The Lancet last October, but I was sticking
        to the low-end, most conservative estimates because I didn't want to be
        accused of exaggeration."
        But the study she's citing didn't determine whether people who died
        were civilians or not, right?
        \_ No. it didn't.  It studied Iraqi deaths. period.  Thus, the number
           includes Iraqis who normally would have died of natural causes.
        \_ What the hell is the "Lancet"?  I've never heard of it, and I'm
           pretty sure I've heard of everything.  This sounds like something
           only NERDS have heard of.  Is that a TV show?
        \_ No. it didn't.  It studied Iraqi deaths. period.  But the 98k
           estimate was extra-deaths beyond those Iraqis who normally would
           have died of natural causes, estimated excluding Falluja deaths.
           Additionally, the study concluded 98,000(iirc) deaths during the
           time period studied (approx. the first year or so).  IOW,
           currently, the death count should be about ~200k.  -nivra
           currently, the death count should be about ~140k.  -nivra
           \_ First, I'd like to thank you for correcting my (mistaken)
              objections the the Lancet study's statistics.  Second, I don't
              objections wrt the Lancet study's statistics.  Second, I don't
              think it's reasonable to do a linear extrapolation to 200K now.
              \_ Oops. My original extrapolation showed 140k deaths - straight
                 proportion from iraqbodycount.  I pulled 200k out of my ass.
                 FWIW, here are deaths from IraqBodyCount:  -nivra
                 up till 3/20/03:    4221 -  5406  (major combat operations)
                 3/21/03 - 9/20/04: 11740 - 12908  (up thru lancet study)
                 9/21/04 - 7/02/05:  6877 -  7555  (post-lancet study)
        \_ I agree with nivra - Ivins misinterprets the report.
           But, her 20K number may actually be accurate:
           It's too bad the military doesn't record this data, or there might
           be a list of civilian deaths caused by U.S. action in descending
           order, sortable by military ID and COs.  E.g., PFC x is responsible
           for 5 confirmed civilian deaths along with 10 confirmed kills,
           LTG y is responsible for this many and that many for all under his
           or her command.  The military loves data, normally.
           \_ Hardly. 20k, no matter which way you hack it, is grossly under-
              estimating.  Most of this has been hashed out between emarkp and
              I in the past, but the lancet study is accurate, if not precise.
              So use their low end confidence numbers(eg. from the first
              quartile). if you want, that still gives you over 2x the number
              dead. -nivra
              \_ Yeah, I should rewrite that to "20K number may actually be
                 accurate as a low-end figure for civilian deaths caused by
                 both insurgent attacks and coalition activity"
                 both insurgent and coalition activity"
                 \_ Ok, I looked up the kais motd thread:
                    At 75% confidence, you can state there have been 108k
                    Iraqi deaths since the war started. At 90% confidence,
                    you can state there have been 65k Iraqi deaths since the
                    war started. (Again, estimates do not include Falluja
                    deaths due to massive outlier status)
                    \_ Yeah, yeah, I know.  The Lancet report talks about total
                       extra deaths including combatants and civilians as you
                       noted.  I'm talking about 20K as a low-end figure for
                       civilians only.
                       Even that 20K number is probably a lot higher, but
                       we're talking low-end, and civilians only, right.
                       Anyways, I know pro-war people would have big issues
                       with lumping in deaths caused by insurgent bombs too.
                       \-the only think worse than listening to unfunny and
                         fat molly ivins is listening to unfunny and fat
                         jeaninnie garafolo.
2005/7/13 [Uncategorized] UID:38602 Activity:high
2005/7/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack] UID:38603 Activity:low
7/13    Just out of curiosity, who's the fanatic motd spammer?  I'm not so
        interested in the politics of it, but it just somehow reminds me of the
        random guy in SF yelling about UFOs.  -John
        \_ finger jblack!
           \_ Yeah, I have, and his .plan is one of someone who's very, uh,
              convinced, but it doesn't indicate total insane wacko.  -John
        \_ 12 GALAXIES!!
        \_ According to Tom Holub they are jblack, reiffin, crebbs, and ecchang
        \_ [Don't name random names if you don't know what you're talking
           about.  Thanks.]
2005/7/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:38604 Activity:moderate
7/13    There's a lot we don't know yet about the CIA flap
        \_ We do know that this guy is a National Review hack, however.
        \_ If you don't know what "being obtuse" is, here it is.
           [restored by !poster.  fuck off, deleter]
           \_ I deleted my own post because I didn't think it was as accurate
              as I would have liked.  It's maybe about 80% "being obtuse".
        \_ A lot of those questions have been answered.  For instance
           Judith Miller was drawn into the case via phone records.
        \_ I stopped reading when he didn't acknowledge that the signed waivers
           were coerced and thus not authentic releases.  What's the strongest
           evidence of this?  Matthew Cooper didn't spill until he got an
           explicit release from Rove, and at the last minute too.
           \_ I don't think this true.  Karl Rove's attorney has denied
              that Rove has contacted Cooper recently.  Rover did sign
              a blanket waiver a while ago letting any reporter discuss
              all this crap.  I think it's not really clear why Cooper
              suddenly said Rove is his source, it could be for
              a variety of reasons, maybe he just didn't feel like going
              to jail for 18 months to protect Karl Rove. - danh
           This is an opinion piece supporting Rove which dodges essential
           facts like the above.
        \_ FUD from the National Review. How uncharacteristic of them.
2005/7/13-15 [Uncategorized] UID:38605 Activity:nil
7/13    Interview with Frank Herbert and Beverly Herbert from 1969:
        \_ Why are you posting this now?
           \_ I don't know why whomever posted that did it but the
              interview is damned interesting in spots.
2005/7/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38606 Activity:high
7/13    25 years! Jacques de Molay, you are avenged!
        \- if i were king, i would approve.
           \_ Partha, you will always remain our Once and Future motd king.
           \_ You can't imagine how depressed it makes me to realize psb
              turned out to to have a soul of a small time oriental despot.
                -- ilyas
                   \- i guess STALIN makes POL POT look small time? although
                      if you measure in terms of fraction of your country
                      killed, mr. pot does pretty well. you may also wish to
                      see the War of the Triple Alliance.
                      see War of the Triple Alliance.
                      \_ I think the only distinction between Pol Pot and
                         Stalin was that Stalin was placed in a position
                         where a wider application of power was possible,
                         not any sort of tangible moral difference. -- ilyas
                         \- i wasnt not talking about moral difference.
                            i was a little surprised pol pot is considered
                            "small time" in ilyas world. BTW, i think you
                            are misunderstanding my somewhat tongue in cheek
                            comment about pol pot. but i am touched my your
                            disillusionment with me. --psb
                            \_ Well, I asked you once if you were kidding.
                               You said you weren't.  Are you tongue in cheek
                               or not?  Words mean things, etc. -- ilyas
                               \- roughly this is what i mean: if i were a
                                  absolute despot, i think i would be
                                  inclined to somewhat arbitrarily punish
                                  people whose lifestyles i disapproved of.
                                  this doesnt mean people who wear glasses
                                  or engage in sodomy or other thing violating
                                  dogmatic views of morality but people i
                                  consider decadent. spending $6000 on a
                                  shower curtain would merit punishment.
                                  \_ Well, that might make you better than
                                     Pol Pot or Stalin, who had somewhat broader
                                     tests for applications of power.  On the
                                     other hand, to paraphrase someone I know,
                                     who are you to tell me how big a car I
                                     should drive or how big the breasts of my
                                     wife should be, etc?  Is this grounded in
                                     aesthetics for you or what? -- ilyas
                                     \_ So when's the marriage to Linsey
                                        Dawn McKenzie, ilyas?
                                        \_ What is this person famous for,
                                           other than having large boobs?
                                           \_ Use google and find out!
                                     \_ What's it like to go through life
                                        without a sense of humor?
                                        \_ I asked him twice if he is joking
                                           or not.  I don't think he's joking
                                           anymore, I think he really would
                                           put 'plutocrats' and 'degenerates'
                                           to the torch.  The joke's on you.
                                             -- ilyas
                                           \_ hey, you just stomped on dan's
                                              post, and you use vi.
                                              \- i didnt say degenerates
                                                 or plutocrats. i wouldnt have
                                                 bill gates killed. i would
                                                 have the decadent punished
                                                 not preverts and all rich
                                                 people. trump gets put in
                                                 concrete and urinated upon.
                                                 bill gates just gets anti-
                                                 trust enforcement. --psb
                                                 \_ Anyways, sense of humor
                                                    guy, I await your apology.
                                                    (Btw, sorry for stomping
                                                    your post dan, if it was
                                                    me). -- ilyas
                                                    \- i think you are lacking
                                                       a sense of humor about
                                                       this too. but maybe it
                                                       is because you have
                                                       some trauma associated
                                                       with growing up in
                                                       russia? i can understand
                                                       somebody from cambodia
                                                       not thinking this is a
                                                       good way to make a point
                                                       \_ Look partha, I am going
                                                          to put this as kindly
                                                          as I can.  Why have you
                                                          been yanking my chain
                                                          for 2 threads now?
                                                          Is this how you troll?
                                                          If you claim to be
                                                          serious then I assume
                                                          you are, and sense of
                                                          humor is not an issue.
                                                          I guess what I learned
                                                          today is I can't take
                                                          any answer of yours
                                                          seriously, which is
                                                          also kind of
                                                          depressing.  This
                                                          whole "I was joking
                                                          after all" thing is
                                                          pure wankery on your
                                                          part, imo. -- ilyas
                                                          \-was not intending
                                                            to yank your chain.
                                                            although now i am
                                                            sort of amused.
                                                            i think it is an
                                                            interesting state
                                                            of affiars to say
                                                            that i would get
                                                            more milage out of
                                                            punishing people
                                                            than say looting
                                                            the country if i
                                                            were given the
                                                            keys to the kingdom.
                                                            do you love pushkin?
2005/7/13-15 [Transportation/Car] UID:38607 Activity:low
7/13    Top ten movie car chases:
        \_ Fuck all car chases, and fuck all cars.  A car chase can ruin a whole
           movie.  I had to walk out of Ronin because of its endless car chase.
           What the fuck is the matter with people that they like watching
           people drive around?  If you want to watch people drive around,
           you can do that anytime, anywhere.  Why not list the all time
           best movie scenes where someone takes a shit in real time?
           \_ Don't forget the guns.  -John
              \_ What about the guns?
                 \_ Any self-respecting car chase needs serious guns.
        \_ There've been versions of this list before.  Anything without
           The French Connection is bunkum.  Where Eagles Dare gets
           honorable mention.  -John
        \_ Of course, The Bourne Supremacy chase would have been better if the
           cinematography hadn't been in handheld-vomit-inducing-cam.
2005/7/13-15 [Computer/SW/Apps, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:38608 Activity:nil
7/14    what is some OCR software for OSX that doesn't suck? - danh
        \_ I hear the super-expensive Acrobat is good, but if you find
           a cheaper quality alternative, please let me know. -brett
        \_ I've used Photoshop + Acrobat to OCR magazine articles and
           papers and found that it works pretty well. If you want to
           save some money buy a copy of Acrobat v6. --ranga
2019/02/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:13 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>