Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:12 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2005/7/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:38544 Activity:low
7/11    link:tinyurl.com/8wbn2 (journalnow.com, Bloomberg News)
        The US gov will report this week that rising tax revenue is
        shrinking this year's budget deficit, possibly by as much as
        90 billion, giving Bush a shot at fulfilling his deficit
        reduction promise 3 years early. Also, California's economy
        is improving: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050708/85505.html?.v=1
        If things do indeed improve in the next few years, will you
        guys still say bad things about Bush?
        \_ He promised to cut it in HALF.  $90 billion isn't close to half
           of $400 billion.  For that matter, he CREATED the problem in the
           first place by being the first president EVER to push tax cuts
           in a time of war.  So to answer your question: yes.  A minor
           reduction in problems he created won't validate him for me.
           \_ Does your quoted $400 billion include the spending in Iraq/Afgh?
              The added debt during Bush's terms is in the ballpark of $2.1
              trillion.  There was a join study including the Heritage Found.
              that found that on our current track, the only thing the gvmt
              will be able to afford by 2040 is financing our debt.
           \_ I believe it was stated in the promise that the deficit
              will be halved by half by the END of his second term, not
              in the 2004/2005 fiscal year.
              \_ Does "halved by half" mean 25% reduction?
                 \_ Wishful thinking aside, does 2004/2005 mean the end of
                    W's 2nd term?
           \_ The only reason tax revenue is rising is because more and more
              people are getting hit with AMT problems.
              \_ Do you have data to back that up?
        \_ Racking up a gigantic deficit and then cutting *that* in half
           isn't quite that impressive, which is why promising to cut the
           deficit in half seems like a kind of vague goal.
           deficit in half seems like a king of vague achievement.
2005/7/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:38545 Activity:nil
7/11    http://tinyurl.com/de4fu
        Check out reader's comments on The Truth about Hillary, and
        how people vote for "Was this useful?
        \_ Atticus' comments were the most poignant.
        \_ Boo Radley's comments were the most poignant.
2005/7/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38546 Activity:nil
7/11    "If anyone in this administration was involved in [outing CIA covert
        agent Valeria Plame],  they would no longer be in this administration."
                                -Scott McClellan, 9-29-2003
        \_ Surely you have a URL for this so that we can see the entire quote
           in context as well as the (very important) original text that's been
           replaced by the brackets?
           \_ Have you forgotten how to google?  For chrissake...
              http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/09/20030929-7.html
              \_ No, I haven't.  I'd like to see the anonymous poster realize
                 his problems with fact.  His [] is editorial, not a quote.
                 \_ No freakin' shit.  Of course it's fucking editorial.
                    Are you suggesting it's misleading?  Did _you_ read the
                    "entire quote in context"? You're a fucking moron.
                 \_ No it is not. The word in the actual quote was "it."
                    How would paraphrase what "it" means in that context?
                    I think they did a good job making it clear what "it"
                    meant. You are just nit picking.
                    \_ "leaking classified information".  It doesn't appear
                       that Rove "outed" her.
2005/7/12-13 [Consumer/CellPhone, Finance/Shopping] UID:38547 Activity:nil
7/11    It was only 2 years ago when I had a $29.99/month wireless plan with
        300 any time minute and unlimited incoming and night&wknd. My contract
        is up and I can't find a $29.99/month plan anymore. The cheapest I can
        find is $39.99 plus $7 tax, which jacks up the price to almost
        $50/month. Cell phones used to be cheap, what's going on???
        \_ Last December I signed up for a T-mobile plan for two phones, five
           lines, everything free for one year after rebates.
        \_ Because cell phone companies know that after you have been hooked
           into having a cell phone, you can no longer live without out.  At
           least your SO and friends will pressure you to always have one.
           That's why companies were willing to offer these money-losing plans.
        \_ Back then competition was hardcore and AT&T sold a lot of cheap
           contracts forcing others to follow. With buyouts, there isn't as
           much competition and those still in the biz have to make up the
           money lost making those before mentioned  acquisitions. The best
           way to game the system now is to abuse the "friends and family"
           plans that allow unlimited time within their company .
2005/7/12-13 [Consumer/Camera, Reference/Military, Computer/Theory] UID:38548 Activity:nil
7/11    Just wanted to thank the person who posted about the PBS special
        Guns, Germs and Steel. Tonight's eps. (the 1st?) was pretty good.
        I'm not sure I completely agree w/ the premise that geography
        dictated "success", but I'm pretty sure I can go along w/ the
        fact that it predisposed certain people to create civilization
        and culture.
           \_ I can't believe I missed this book when I came out in
              1999. I'm going to have to get it from the library after
              finals. BTW, he seems to have written another book last
              year called Collapse. Have you read that one?
        \_ I forgot to watch.  The newest hardback edition of the book
           out now has a new chapter on the author's theory of the
           origin of the Japanese language and people. - danh
           \_ I can't believe I missed this book when I came out in
              1999. I'm going to have to get it from the library after
              finals. BTW, he seems to have written another book last
              year called Collapse. Have you read that one?
        \_ I read the stuff at http://pbs.com, which seemed to contain the entire
           show content, and you can read it all in 5 minutes or whatever.
           I guess seeing the landscapes and people on camera would be fun.
           Oh well.
           \_ I watched it in HD and it looked great.
           \_ http://www.pbs.org not http://pbs.com.
2005/7/12-13 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Investment] UID:38549 Activity:low
7/11    http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/topten/earners.html
        Saratoga has the 7th highest median income in the US, trailing
        behind Great Falls VA, Darient CT, New Canaan CT, Wilton CT, and
        others. What the heck do people do in VA and CT that make them rich?
        \_ Pretty shocking that these are ahead of places like Beverly Hills.
           Anyway, the CT people work in NYC. The VA people rip off the
           government.
           \_ The residents of places like Beverly Hills and Brentwood probably
              don't have high incomes but instead high net worth.
              \_ Brentwood is not a city. BH's median income was $91K (2000).
                 What you say is true, but you don't buy a $2M house by
                 making $91K. The "slums of Beverly Hills" must drive down
                 the median.
                 \_ Also, many SoCal places (e.g. Manhattan Beach and Laguna
                    Beach) have had a huge run-up in the last few years.
                    Long time residents might not have the income of people
                    who might be buying in now.
                 \_ I went to Maggiano's once and overheard 3 real estate
                    agents talking about how hot the market is, and one of
                    them said his dream house is to buy this condo in Santa
                    Monica, 1100 sq ft, is really close to 3rd Street and
                    overlooks the beach. It starts at 1.5 million dollars.
                    Then he said he sold one of them last week, and the other
                    agent said "Jesus! What kind of people buy these places?"
                    and he replied "Oh, she works for the Judge Judy
                    production."
        \_ Only for cities with population over 14000, thus eliminating the
           truly posh towns.
        \_ The amusing list is the top 10 priciest homes.
           http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/topten/homes.html
           \_ What's so amusing about it? If you have money, anywhere is
              a good place to live.
              \_ It's amusing that 9 of 10 are in CA.
                 \_ It'll more amusing when they go down by 20% of their
                    value in 3 years.
                    \_ Drat, so in 3 years I'll only be up 115% since I bought
                       my house?
                       \_ :-)
                       \_ I piss in your general direction.
              \_ Actually, no.  Some places are awful to live in, especially
                 if you have money.
2005/7/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/RealEstate] UID:38550 Activity:low
7/11    Top cities to live in the US. Northern Cal towns got mentioned a few
        times. Go Bay Area!!! Northern Cal >>> Southern Cal. We are the best!
        Go Mill Valley, Saratoga, Aptos, Benecia, and Petaluma.
        Proof that California >>> Rest of the US!!!
        http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/top100_1.html
        \_ I regard any list with Chino Hills on it with the utmost
           suspicion. As someone who lived in LA and SF, though, I think
           San Diego is the best place in CA. Nice weather, lots of single
           women, good quality of life, close to LA but not in it.
           Somewhere like La Jolla would rock.
        \_ Dude...they have COMPTON on that list!!!
           \_ I don't see it. What number?
        \_ Coronado is indeed BEAUTIFUL, but if the median household income
           is $72000 and the average home price is over 1 million dollars...
           then something's really screwy here.
        \_ Naperville, IL has a median household income of $96,000 and
           average home price of $311,000. Compare that to California
           where it is not unusual that average home prices are 10X the
           household income. Based on unaffordability, I failed to see why
           they even bother to put in CA cities. I guess it makes sense
           if you bought houses in the 80s or inherited land.
           \_ Wait until you see how big that house in Illinois is, too.
              It's probably 3x the size of the average house here. However, it
              is in Illinois. I wouldn't move there if you paid my mortgage
              for me.
              \_ nah, Naperville is not that cheap.  $300K will likely get
                 you a nice 1800 sq ft townhouse, but that's about it.
                 A suburb of chicago, it's a pretty nice city, but not
                 comparable to the bay area in terms weather, outdoors
                 activities, places to go within 4 hours drive, and
                 cosmopolitan demographics.
                 activities, places to go, and cosmopolitan demographics.
                 \_ 5 bedrooms, 2 baths $374K. 3/2 $239K. $500K gets you
                    a 3000+ square foot house.
                    \_ yes, that sounds about right.  How much is a
                       decent 1800 sq ft townhouse in the Bay Area
                       (say Fremont) these days?
                       \_ $500-700k
                       \_ Sister's 2/2 in Walnut Creek is $595K. I saw
                          a 3/1 1600 square foot SFR in Naperville for $200K.
                          \_ but the SFR is likely old and crappy.
                             \_ Sure, just like it would be here in CA but
                                cost 3x as much.
                                \_ don't worry, the price/rent ratio between
                                   naperville and bay area will eventually
                                   start converging, one way or another.
                                   A $200K townhouse in naperville rents
                                   for about $1300.
                                   \_ Yeah, but it will probably be home
                                      prices going up in Illinois. You
                                      still make more money over the long
                                      run by buying, even in California.
                                      There is a global savings glut right
                                      now, driving down yields, forcing
                                      investors into things like rental
                                      property.
2005/7/12-13 [Computer/Blog] UID:38551 Activity:nil
7/11    The perils of blogging: http://csua.org/u/cog (Kevin Drum)
2005/7/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38552 Activity:nil
7/11    "I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the
         trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view,
         the most insidious, of traitors." - George H.W. Bush - April 1999
         \_ Yeah, but he was an Un-american traitor who raised taxes, so fuck
            him.
            \_ Did you ever read the Constitution? Who writes the laws? Who
               controls the money? It was George Mitchell who pushed Bush, sr
               to raise taxes.
               \_ Awww, poor widdle Georgie.  Only the pwesident, getting
                  beaten up by the Bad Bad Democrats.
            \_ You make me laugh with your silly non-sequiturs.
2005/7/12-13 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/Security] UID:38553 Activity:low
7/13    Scotch will be coming down tonight.  Expect disruption in CSUA service
        between 7pm and wheneverweactuallyfinish.  We don't intend on bringing
        soda down for more than a few minutes to rotate it in the rack (so
        that it cooks evenly).  Probability of list disruption will be high.
        Office accounts will be unavailable.  Njh will be piss drunk. - jvarga
      /
     /
July 12, 2005

Root is planning to swap out scotch.CSUA for a newer machine in the next few
days as part of planned server upgrades.  Scotch serves DNS, NIS for the
office, mailing lists, and is soda's backup mail server.  During the
downtime, some or all of these services will be unavailable.  The length of
the outage depends on our luck, but we hope to have everything back
available within a few hours with as little disruption as possible.  Note
that the soda motd will continue to be as troll-filled as usual.

Additionally, the scotch replacement will bring in phase 1 of the new soda
upgrade.  We will be unifying soda logins and office logins (but not home
directories), which means that I will be pulling the password database off
of soda to serve as the master list for office logins.  This means that if
you have an office account, your office password will be the same as your
soda password. If you did not have an office account before, this change
will not grant you an office account.

The exact date and time of this switchover will be announced soon.  Please
direct all questions/comments/concerns to root.

jvarga
2005/7/12-14 [Uncategorized] UID:38554 Activity:nil
7/12    Is there a site like rottentomatoes for music reviews?
        \_ Not the same at all, but I find http://www.allmusic.com helpful.
        \_ answering my own question: http://metacritic.com
2005/7/12-13 [Uncategorized] UID:38555 Activity:nil 72%like:38796 61%like:38598 57%like:38833
7/12    Read the official motd, you twinks.  - jvarga
        \_ I refuse to read it further because it's not 80-column compliant!!!
           :-)
           \_ It doesn't even get close to trying to wrap in my 80-column
              terminal!  Get your columns back! - jvarga
2005/7/12-13 [Health/Disease/General, Science/Electric, Recreation/Music] UID:38556 Activity:nil
7/12    Bob Moog is seriously ill with a brain tumor:
        http://www.caringbridge.org/cb/inputSiteName.do?method=search&siteName=bobmoog
        If you don't know who he is, check:
        http://www.synthmuseum.com/moog
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38557 Activity:nil
7/12    "President Bush, at an Oval Office photo opportunity Tuesday, was asked
        directly whether he would fire Rove in keeping with a pledge in June,
        2004, to dismiss any leakers in the case. The president did not
        respond."
        http://csua.org/u/cok
        \_ Re: The other day's press conference. Is there a way to learn who
           the reporters were that Scott McClellan was addressing (besides
           Richard, Dave, John, Dana, Terry and so on)? I'd like to know who
           they are, particularly the ones who were (gasp!) asking real
           questions and the guy who lobbed him non-questions. -- ulysses
           \_ Al Franken has a 2nd cousin, Bob, in the White House Press Corps
              who apparently caught McClellan as he was leaving and said
              "Scott, one more question.... Never mind, it's not worth it."
              Who'll bet that Scott is gone before Karl? --scotsman
           \_ Okay, the original .wmv I posted has what you want:
              http://www.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/scotty_rove_71105.wmv
              Better quality QuickTime:
              http://www.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/scotty_rove_71105.mov
2005/7/12-14 [Finance/Banking, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:38558 Activity:nil
7/12    Is it just me or it seems the quality of entries in CDDB sucks lately?
        For example, I stick in a CD and the name of the song and artist
        would reverse, pop/classical/blues would get falsely categorized,
        and other things?
        \_ On a related note, is there a place I can look up ISRC album
           codes?  All my Chinese p1r8 CDs from the Burmese flea market have
           them, but none of the "legit" gwailo ones do... -John
           them, but none of the "legit" gwailo ones do... -Joh
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38559 Activity:nil
7/12    Story describing verbal exchange during yesterday's WH press
        conference, including listing reporters' identities:
        http://csua.org/u/coo (Post)
        "McClellan is indeed well liked by the press corps. But that counts
        for little now, when recent events have shown that he either misled
        reporters deliberately or was duped by his White House colleagues."
2005/7/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:38560 Activity:nil
7/12    Illegal immigration brings yummy TB!
        http://csua.org/u/con
2005/7/12 [Computer/SW/Languages/JavaScript, Computer/SW/Languages/Functional] UID:38561 Activity:nil
7/12    HAHAHAHA...
        In Javascript, null == undefined is true.
        However, Number(null) != Number(undefined)
        Number(null) is 0
        Number(undefined) is NaN
        HAHAHAHAHAH
        \_ Now is that across all Javascript implementations?  Or is this
           one of those happy joy joy non-standard windows things?
           \_ This is ECMA spec.  Below poster is correct about ===.
        \_ Programming language equality is rarely the same thing as
           mathematical equality.  This is actually a fairly complex
           issue (seeing how lisp treats something is a good way to tell --
           lisp has 4 or 5 different notions of equality). -- ilyas
                \_ All equality is equal, but some are more equal than others!
                   \_ This is more accurate than you might think. In particular,
                      null === undefined is false in Javascript. -gm
        \_ String(null) is also different from String(undefined).  So?
2005/7/12-13 [Uncategorized] UID:38562 Activity:low
7/12    People caught with their pants down, literally!
        NOT WORK SAFE
        http://csua.org/u/com
        \_ Are cars in China more roomy than the ones here?
           \_ The people are just smaller</jessehelms>
           \_ The people are just smaller  </jessehelms>
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/HateGroups, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:38563 Activity:nil
7/12    CPB ombudsmen report back on NPR bias: thumbs-up
        http://csua.org/u/cos (wash post)
2005/7/12 [Transportation/Car] UID:38564 Activity:low
7/12    Was there a reason why I-280 turned into a giant parking lot this
        morning or did people just decide to be extra stupid today?
        \_ don't stomp on other people's posts
           \- it is the Governator's Learn to Drive Day
        \_ I880 northbound near Union City / Hayward was more packed this
           morning than usual too.
           \_ Blame the lookylous at southbound I880. I knew it was bad when
              I had to make room for two fire engines to pass by.
 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/12/BAcrash12.DTL
              http://tinyurl.com/8kgyv (sfgate.com)
2005/7/12 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack] UID:38565 Activity:nil
7/12    So is it too early to talk about what the appropriate punishment
        for Karl Rove would be? Do they still hang traitors in wartime?
        I sure would love to see that fat bastard dancing at the end
        of a rope. How about you jblack, you seem to be a patriotic
        guy. What do you think an appropriate punishment for Rove
        would be?
2005/7/12 [Uncategorized] UID:38566 Activity:nil
7/12    You Karl Rove haters are racist. -peterm
        \_ Very funny.  --PeterM
2005/7/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:38567 Activity:high
7/12    Today's White House press briefing
        http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050712-4.html
        "Let's let the investigation take place, and let's let the
        investigators bring all the facts together and draw the conclusions
        that they draw, and then we will know the facts at that point."
        Translation:  Dubya buys time for Roveian general to execute on GOP
        plans, with expectation that Rove will come out fine anyway since the
        base doesn't really care.
        In case you didn't figure it out yet:  Dubya's current and future
        position is he will only be firing people for illegal acts with
        convictions, not for merely being "involved" in the Plame affair as
        a previously reported position.
        \_ I call flip-flop on them!
        \_ From http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/09/20030929-7.html
           (My quotes are going to be partial for emphasis.  See the page above
           for the full context.)
           Q: has the President tried to find out who outed the CIA agent?
           ...
           McClellan: if someone leaked classified information of this nature..
           ...
           McClellan:  the President believes leaking classified information is
           a very serious matter
           It's fairly clear that McClellan was saying that anoyone in the WH
           who leaked classified info would be gone.  It doesn't appear that
           Rove did that.
           \_ Why would you say that it doesn't appear that Rove didn't leak
           \_ Why would you say that it doesn't appear that Rove leaked
              classified info?
              \_ Because saying "You know the reason he got that job is because
                 his wife is in the CIA" may not have revealed classified info.
                 \_ But that isn't what he said. He said his wife was a
                    CIA operative. Pretty clear cut what that means.
                 \_ Because the CIA is in the habit of calling for
                    investigations by the DoJ just because...
                 \_ that sounds like a leak of classified info to me.
                    I guess it depends on what the meanings of "leak" and
                    "classified" are.
                    "I did not leak classified info to that man, Mr. Cooper!"
                    \_ Is being in the employ of the CIA classified?
                       \_ When it is, yes.  You're deliberately being obtuse.
                            \_ huh?
                               \_ When the person's affiliation needs to be
                                  secret, it's classified.  You're an idiot.
                          The CIA requested an independent investigation.  It's
                          been ongoing for 2 years. if there was no there there
                          don't you think it would have been wrapped up with a
                          bow by now.
                          \_ I'm not being obtuse, you're being a dumbass.
                             We'll find out at the END of the investigation if
                             he violated the law.  If he did, he should be out
                             of there.  If he didn't, shut the fuck up.
                             \_ Yawn. The man's guilty. This is just what he's
                                been caught at. I say hang 'im.
                             \_ The END of the investigation... in 2010? 2020?
                             \_ Uh, I hate to be a nancy about this, but you
                                should write, "If he did, I should shut the
                                fuck up.  If he didn't, you should shut the
                                fuck up."  Are you an undergrad?
                                \_ Actually, no.  I'm no lefty partisan, but I
                                   also don't want someone who would leak
                                   classified info in the WH.  So if he's found
                                   to be guilty, I'll join the chorus demanding
                                   that he be fired.
                                   \_...but until then, Shut the Fuck Up?
                                      \_ Yeah, let's all stfu until the
                                         investigation is over.
                                         \_ Can't we complain about the
                                            previous pronouncements that Rove
                                            had nothing to do with the Plame
                                            affair, and that it was ridiculous
                                            to suggest that?
                                            \_ He never said he had nothing to
                                               do with it. Just that it was
                                               a ridiculous suggestion. Maybe
                                               he means the whole situation is
                                               worthy of ridicule.
2005/7/12 [Uncategorized] UID:38568 Activity:nil
7/12    diff Anarchism Libertarianism
2005/7/12-14 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:38569 Activity:nil
7/12    I ran out of money market checks from Etrade and reordered them
        online. I was surprised that it's free, but they only gave me 5 at
        a time. Anyways, the new checks do NOT come in checkbooks, but in
        a long piece of paper. Is that normal?
        \_ I got the same treatment.  In fact, I didn't even realize that
           was the checks I ordered, so I told them I didn't receive the
           checks and they sent me one book worth for free.  Oh well.  I
           only need one per month, and it's easy to reorder on-line, so
           it's not that big of an issue.
2005/7/12-14 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:38570 Activity:nil
7/12    Now for something that has nothing to do with Sith Lord Rove:
        http://tinyurl.com/aaa4a (news.yahoo.com)
        EU Anti-trust regulators raided Intel's European offices.
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38571 Activity:low
7/12    What's up with the freeper going nutzoid today?
        \_ today and every day. I think the fear of Rove being outed
           has driven him over the edge.
           \_ It's not only Rove, it's whoever fed the info to Rove, since
           \_ It's not only Rove, it's whomever fed the info to Rove, since
              there's no reason Rove would know it on his own.  -tom
        \_ There will be others. If you can't beat him, destroy him
           should be your motto.
           \_ You know that strange feeling you are having? It is
              called cognitive dissonance. I know it sucks to find
              out that your Republican heros are scoundrels, just
              like all the other politicians, but that is just
              the way it is. The sooner you admit it to yourself
              the better off you will be.
              \_ Only those who died for their country are heros.
                 \_ The idea is not to die for your country but to make the
                    other guy die for his.
                 \_ "The object of war is not to die for your country but to
                     make the other bastard die for his." --Patton
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38572 Activity:nil
7/12    Rove is here to stay and Bush expresses confidence. There is only
        room for one party in the United States and if you don't like
        it shut your mouth. You liberals lost, get over it.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050712/pl_nm/bush_leak_dc
        \_ you're the one deleting replies to your threads, hiding url's,
           and generally being a baby.
        \_ 'The key questions went unanswered by the White House for a second
            straight day. So far this week, McClellan has told reporters 23
            times that he would not comment because of the "ongoing
            investigation."'
        \_ ahem. deleting replies again, I see. GROW UP.
        \_ "...only room for one party..." Hmm, where have I heard that
           line before? Is that Mao or Lenin?
           \_ Godwin to thread!
              \_ Christ, you're embarrassing me.  How can you call yourself a
                 tech geek and not know what Godwin's Law is???
2005/7/12-14 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:38573 Activity:nil
7/12    Firefox 1.0.5 is out:
        http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/releases/1.0.5.html
        So is OS X 10.4.2:
        Delta (10.4.1 to 10.4.2):
        http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosxupdate1042.html
        Combo (10.4.[0-1] to 10.4.2):
        http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosxupdate1042combo.html
2005/7/12-14 [ERROR, uid:38574, category id '18005#2.34375' has no name! , ] UID:38574 Activity:nil
7/12    CNN Anchor: "Definitely a major smear campaign going on against Karl
        Rove." HAHHAHA
        http://www.cjrdaily.org/archives/001672.asp
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:38575 Activity:nil
7/12    London Bombing: Further Proof We're Winning
        http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=15626
        \_ I wanna see you people tell the British that we're "fighting them
           there so we don't have to fight them here"...
           \_ Maybe if the Brits arrested people who openly called for the
              overthrow of their own government they wouldn't have been bombed.
              Here's a nutty idea: fighting them there doesn't matter if we're
              inviting them over here.
        \_ This is even dumber than the Freeper links you keep posting.
           It is all one ad hominem rant vs. Senator Kennedy. Where do
           you find these pearls of Conservative "wisdom"?
2005/7/12-14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38576 Activity:nil
7/12    What You Don't Know About Guantanamo Bay And What the MSM
        Won't Tell You: http://tinyurl.com/ajkk7 (freeper link)
        \_ The silence is a bit deafening about the three senators who visited
           gitmo and said it's run very well.
        \_ Spin spin spin little Freeper. I notice you still haven't
           commented on your favorite traitor Rove.
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38577 Activity:nil
7/12    The Democrats Fight Against Democracy and the Constitution:
        http://tinyurl.com/7gghk (freeper link)
        \_ *sniff* I don't know whether to spew because of the content of the
           post or because our own little freeper troll has finally figured
           out how to use tinyurl.
           \_ Proof that not all Conservatives are as stupid as the ones
              you meet in Fresno.
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38578 Activity:nil
7/12    Still think there's no connection between Hussein and Bin Laden?
        Think again!    http://tinyurl.com/ckl7g (freeper)
        \_ "I would characterize it as sort of an on again, off again
           relationship. I mean, I don't think these guys were buddies by
           any stretch of the imagination, but they viewed each other as
           something that could be exploited." That's it? You are crowing
           about that? Pathetic.
2005/7/12-14 [Consumer/Audio] UID:38579 Activity:nil
7/12     Looking to upgrade  the headphones i use for my ipod.
         Currently I am using SONY MDR-NC5.  Willing to spend <$150
         Thanks
        \_ Shure e3c
           \_ I looked at those too, but the Amazon review where the guy went
              to the emergency room with a plastic pieced lodged deep in his
              ear canal scared me.
              \_ I've never had any issues or heard of anything like this.
        \_ Shure.
2005/7/12 [Uncategorized] UID:38580 Activity:low
7/12     Is it me or are there alot more cops on 101/280 these days?
         Is it ticket quota time or is this a response to London ?
        \- maybe our governator cut funding to the police department again
2005/7/12-14 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:38581 Activity:moderate
7/12    This discussion of Sith Lord Rove bores me, so I will query the
        motd environmentalists again.  Assuming your worst fears about
        global warming were true, and you had the license to applications of
        power to fix the situation, what would you do? -- ilyas
        \_ I blame global warming on capitalism, a system that over-uses
           and over-produces goods, plunders precious gifts that our mother
           nature gave us just for the selfish goal of pleasure.  Hence to
           combat global warming, I would first seize power and turn the
           entire Earth to communism. Then I'll stop productions on
           unnecessary consumer goods and get rid of home ownership so that
           the government can issue nearby housing to reduce traffic.
           I'll also require everyone to take classes that expose them to
           the pleasure of being in-tune with mother nature and to share
           resources with the community. I'll offer free birth control to
           slow down population growth. I'll offer FREE education to
           everyone, a system based solely on meritocracy (no more Ivy
           League style admissions). I'll setup a national R&D center that
           researches renewable resources. Doing all of the above will reduce
           usage of massive raw materials that were once needed in
           capitalism, but no longer needed in our new communism. Doing so
           will raise the quality of living especially those in 3rd world
           countries, but will surely piss off overly spoiled Americans with
           whom I'll appease with "Soma" pills.
        \_ off the top of my head, I'd venture the following policy changes:
           - Stop subsidizing oil in all forms: exploration, processing,
             research, etc.  This should have the effect of raising the gas
             tax affecting supply & demand, as well as affecting all oil
             consuming industries.
           - For non-oil based global warming pollution, I would implement
             something similar: (a) eliminate gov't tax breaks, subsidies,
             (b) if that's not enough to dampen emissions, enforce some sort
             of emissions protocol similar to kyoto, or perhaps stronger:
             something that forces corporations to pay for the real-cost of
             polluting, making it an incentive for them to find ways not to
             pollute.
           - Invest a heavy sum: $10-50 billion dollars into alternative
             energy R&D firms: eg. fuel cells, solar, wind, nuclear fusion, ...
           - Establish & fund a dept. within EPA concerned with global warming,
             and enable it to fund grants studying causes of global warming,
             and possible solutions.  This latter is critical, as we need more
             science about causes and solutions.
           - Establish some sort of budgetary allotment for future years to
             invest in gov't implementation of the previous two items.
           - Engage the U.N. and other countries on emissions treaties like
             Kyoto, and push for stricter treaties that encompass all nations,
             developing or not.  Perhaps meet with developed economies to find
             some sort of economic fund to incentivize developing economies.
           I don't think we're going to reverse global warming without some
           serious pains.  The economy will suffer setbacks.  The first two
           items above will cripple certain industries, but the survivors will
           be much stronger companies.  The implementation of the first two
           may have to be phased in over a short period, to avoid an "imminent"
           crippling blow.  Even if they weren't, the industries would survive:
           (cf. 9/11 & airlines).  I need to think more about what to do about
           other countries. -nivra
           other countries.
           \_ The point I am trying to make here is lowering the temperature
              a very small fraction \epsilon costs big money (many billions
              of dollars).  I think treaties like Kyoto are mostly stupid
              for this reason.  I think a much more reasonable approach
              would be to have 'commons rent' for both corporations and
              individuals, and funnel the money into R&D that directly
              fights the threat. -- ilyas
              \_ Yes, but there's a time horizon issue.  Any R&D into research
                 that does what you say (eg. directly remove greenhouse gases
                 from the atmosphere), and then implementation of said research
                 solutions has a fairly long time-line.  There may be a
                 critical tipping point, and reducing current emissions, altho
                 more costly, helps the situation immediately. As an aside,
                 why would you introduce a "commons rent," rather than a
                 a direct fee assessed to polluters?  Isn't the latter more
                 libertarian? -nivra
                 libertarian?
                 \_ I take a 'commons rent' to mean a general mechanism by which
                    a fee is assessed from any entity that uses a 'commons,'
                    proportional to the use of said commons, and which is used
                    for maintaining that commons and repairing 'use damage.'
                    I am not sure how that differs from what you are proposing.
                    I am not using standard terminology, as far as I know
                    'commons rent' is a term I made up.  It is true that
                    things like Kyoto help things _now_, but that's about the
                    only saving grace they have.  I frankly think they do more
                    harm than good, regardless of what the whole story on
                    global warming is. -- ilyas
                 \_ I take a 'commons rent' to mean a general mechanism by
                    which a fee is assessed from any entity that uses a
                    'commons,' proportional to the use of said commons, and
                    which is used for maintaining that commons and repairing
                    'use damage.' I am not sure how that differs from what
                    you are proposing. I am not using standard terminology,
                    as far as I know 'commons rent' is a term I made up.  It
                    is true that things like Kyoto help things _now_, but
                    that's about the only saving grace they have.  I frankly
                    think they do more harm than good, regardless of what
                    the whole story on global warming is. -- ilyas
                    \_ "proportional to use?" or "proportional to abuse?" Also,
                       your response fails to address the time horizon issue.
                       Also, I'm not that sure that "proportional to abuse"
                       won't be so different from what I proposed above.
                       Removing tax breaks and trying to implement some sort
                       of "real-cost" accountability program for polluters
                       is similar.  Anytime you implement real-cost solutions,
                       industry will be hit, and this will help supply & dem.
                       to limit current emissions.  -nivra
                       \_ I think the general commons problem is too complex to
                          treat here.  My intuition is that 'abuse' should not
                          be treated by economic means.  If someone hoses the
                          commons so much that NOBODY can get any use out of it,
                          it doesn't seem like assessing rent is the
                          commons so much that NOBODY can get any use out of
                          it, it doesn't seem like assessing rent is the
                          appropriate response.  At any rate, leaving those
                          issues aside, you can get a lot of use out of
                          'commons rent' for reasonable use.  'Abusing' the
                          environment would be like setting off nukes for
                          profit.  At this point you start putting people in
                          prison. -- ilyas
                          \_ fine.  But the current situation has "abuse."
                             Certain corporations are polluting greenhouse
                             gases to a proportion way more than other
                             corporations and invididuals.
                             corporations and invididuals. -nivra
                             \_ So there is a line between 'use' and 'abuse.'
                                For me, 'abuse' is when you hose things so much
                                it interferes with others using the commons.
                                I take it you want to
           other countries.
                 libertarian?
                    I am not using a standard terminology, as far as I know
                    'commons rent' is a term I made up. -- ilyas
                                I take it your perception of the dividing line
                                has something to do with your intuition you have
                                to charge more than proportional rent from
                                'big users,' per the usual liberal
                                has something to do with your intuition you
                                have to charge more than proportional rent
                                from 'big users,' per the usual liberal
                                progressiveness. -- ilyas
                                \_ no.  proportional is entirely fair.  The key
                                   is how you calculate it.  Truly proportional
                                   commons rent would be a fantastic idea.  The
                                   major environmental problems we have today
                                   are due to exploitation of public resources
                                   by a few individuals/corporations who are
                                   not paying anything close to "proportional"
                                   costs for the public resources they utilize.
                                   Some (not me, b/c I haven't looked into it
                                   enough) may argue that current emissions
                                   have already crossed the line from "use"
                                   into "abuse."  The earth has a sustainable
                                   level of greenhouse gases it can support
                                   in the atmosphere above and beyond what
                                   would naturally be present if no human
                                   emissions occurred.  However, enormous
                                   levels of emissions beyond this sustainable
                                   level has "hosed things so much" that
                                   everyone has to curb back emissions in
                                   order to avoid hosing the earth as we know
                                   it.  -nivra
        \_ We're all bored of you too, ilyas.
        \_ Raise gasoline tax rate to 100%.
        \_ Unleash my gasoline-eating nano-bots in the oil-wells.
        \_ Sacrifice a half-wit libertarian to the earth goddess.
        \_ seclude myself in an island paradise with a bevy of maidservants
           to meditate upon the solution
        \_ I'd split the US into two. The Union and the Confederate. All
           the Confederates can do what they've always wanted, like making
           abortion illegal, repeal ALL firearms control for unlimited
           rights to use use and carry assault rifles/grenades/artillery
           units, putting gays and lesbians into re-education internment
           camps, give extra tax incentives for the expansion of our
           new government (Walmart), legalize shooting and killing
           immigrants, and most importantly, legalize incest.
                The Union on the other hand should do what they've always
           wanted, like raising tax back to ~60% like the pre-Reagan
           social-communist era, legalizing gay marriage & marijuana,
           and encouraging sodomy on public media.
           \_ I'd split the US into 2 and put all the dumbass stereotype
              spitting morons like you on an island and the rest of us could
              get on with life.
        \_ As President of the United States, I would say that the scientific
           consensus is that a significant proportion of the warming of the
           earth in the last 100 years is from humanity's emission of
           greenhouse gases.  I would say that a small minority of established
           scientists believes that this is not true.
           As such, I would like to work with developed and developing
           countries toward creating a progressive but fair energy policy,
           mindful of both the current situation and future predictions of who
           will be contributing the most to global warming.
           mindful of both current and future predictions of who will
           be contributing to global warming.
           This is in contrast to Dubya's position in which he puts the small
           minority ahead of the scientific consensus.
           [Yeah, I'm setting tone, not really spelling out a plan, but isn't
           that what Dubya does?]
        \_ I would lie and dissemble and try to twist the facts to the point
           that the public was paralyzed into inaction. Then I would hope
           and pray I died before the problem really came to light and pass
           it on to the next generation for them to fix with their superior
           technology. Hey, I should get me a job with the White House!
        \_ Wow ilyas.  You have superior troll fu.  I salute you!
        \_ Terra-form mars - we need to get off this planet quick. I'd
           increase funding for fusion and matter-antimater research b/c
           we need Zefram Cochrane to invent warp drive and save humanity.
           \- the "if you were king" phrasing is sort of silly. what makes
              the difficult are the structural issues that make coordination/
              cooperation hard. i would make pol pot type arbitrary
              cooperation difficult. i would make pol pot type arbitrary
              decisions about what rights to give to people.
              \_ I wouldn't.  Enlightened dictatorship is a dangerous fantasy.
                 The 'if you were king' is a meaningful question about what
                 one would want in an ideal situation.  This gives me information
              \_ I hope you weren't serious about that last part. -- ilyas
                 \- i sort of am. if i became king of the earth, on a bad day
                    i'd probably be more like saloth sar/pol pot than say the
                    sultan of brunei or stalin or your avg african kleptocrat.
           \_ Yeah, terraforming mars would be so much easier than cleaning
              up Earth.
                    \_ How lame.  So you are going to pattern yourself after
                       a butcher.  Good for you, Mr. Kantian.  Anyways, this
                       is probably why !psb is a perennial candidate. -- ilyas
                       \- well i am distinguishing between various butchers.
                          my point was i would probably put various people
                          to death for "decadence". actually i would have
                          then tomented via "symbolic restribution" and then
                          maybe put them to death.
                          \_ If you are distinguishing between various butchers
                             you, once again, are missing the point.  By your
                             own description, the only thing stopping you from
                             monstrosity is the threat of violence.  In other
                             words, you are immoral. -- ilyas
                             \- i am not defending this as moral but if i
                                were king, i would put many decadent cockroachs
                                to death and torment.
                                \_ Go you...
        \_ I would use the Swift Sword of Death. -geordan
2005/7/12 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack] UID:38582 Activity:nil
7/12    If you are going to delete all replies to your Freeper links,
        I am going to delete your links.
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:38584 Activity:high
7/12    This isn't a Democrat vs. Republican issue. This is a
        we've-gone- through-a-wormhole-into-a-nightmare-alternative-universe
        -where-Greg Stillson-from-THE DEAD ZONE-got-elected-president-and-
        the-sound-of-demon-trumpets-are-cracking-the-horizon kinda thing.
        Republicans. I don't have any bad feelings for you as individuals
        or even as a group. The fact is, this time you guys fucked up.
        You backed the wrong horse, and we're going over the cliff.
        There's no harm, no foul, in throwing up your hands and saying,
        "Whoops!" Didn't we kinda do that when we nominated losers like
        Mondale and Dukakis? I promise we won't rub it in your faces about
        Bush in the future. It was a fuck-up, and we all make them.
        Hey, four years of Kerry and you guys'll probably find some dude
        who can actually speak in public, isn't a dry drunk, and doesn't
        believe in angels the way Oprah, Melanie Griffith and Anne Heche
        all do.
        \_ Amazing.  You just don't get it.  Oh well, 60 senate seats aren't
           far away.
           \_ Fortunately I have duel citizenship, so I can get the fuck out
           \_ Fortunately I have dual citizenship, so I can get the fuck out
              once we live in a theocracy.  I love America but I wouldn't
              love a Christian Iran run by the American Taliban.
              \_ Duel Citizenship?  Is that like some PvP-oriented MMORPG I
                 haven't played yet?
                 \_ It means you can become a full citizen if you successfully
                    kill an existing citizen in a duel.
                    \_ Sweet!  Sounds like an old Schwarzenegger movie.
                       \_ No, Dune.
                          \_ Uh, no.
              \_ What is your other citizenship?
              \_ Then leave now.  The "I know better than you" attitude is
                 something that we really don't need.
                 \_ What part of "I love America" don't you understand,
                    motherfucker?
           \_ What does exactly does he "not get," and what will the 60
              Senate seats help to change about that?  Reeducation camps?
                \_ That momentum is moving towards a Republican dictatorship,
                   and once they get a filibuster proof Senate and 2 or 3
                   extremist Supreme court justices they will basically be
                   able to do whatever the fuck they want, and the American
                   sheeple will go along with it.
        \_ A small minority of us republicans are still upset that the
           Bush campaign smeared McCain in order to get him out of the
           running in 2K. iirc, Sith Lord Rove was responsible.
           \_ We dodged a bullet.  McCain is more interested in castrating the
              1st amendment than Bush is or Ashcroft ever was.  And he actually
              succeeded.
                \_ You mean the interpretation of the 1st amendment which
                   says campaign contributions == free speech which threw the
                   door wide open to legalalized bribery/corruption?
                   door wide open to legalalized bribery/corruption?  Yeah,
                   door wide open to legalized bribery/corruption?  Yeah,
                   that really makes a democracy flourish!
                   \_ Did you know that any website that says anything about a
                      political candidate falls under the requirement that
                      you must register as if you donated to a campaign?  Yeah,
                      that restraint of free speech.  You know, the amendment
                      says "congress shall make no law".
                      \_ So far, this is all just talk by the FCC. This
                         is not true yet and almost assuredly will not
                         pass judicial muster.
              \_ I am pro-campaign finance reform. Campaigns should not be
                 about who can raise the most money and buy the most TV time
                 for BS like the swift boat vets ads. They should be about
                 IDEAS. May the best IDEA win, not the richest dude.
2005/7/12-14 [Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:38585 Activity:nil Edit_by:auto
7/12    Your favorite O'Reilly books online, for free. This includes
        big titles on Java, Perl, networking, UNIX, Oracle, Linux, and Samba.
        http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly
        and here
        <DEAD>www.hackemate.com.ar/textos/O'reilly%20-%20Complete%20Bookshelf<DEAD>
        \_ With all the political trolling that's been going on around
           here, at first I thought this was about Bill O'Reilley.
        \_ keywords: book learning perl mysql postgres Oreley
           keywords: OReilly Reilly OReiley Reiley OReilley Reilly Orelly Orelley
2005/7/12 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:38586 Activity:nil 76%like:38588
7/12    Another DeLay ally indicted:
        http://csua.org/u/cp3 (WashPo)
        Republicans. You just can't trust them.
2005/7/12-14 [Academia/StanfUrd] UID:38587 Activity:kinda low
7/12    Free lecture on gravity waves tomorrow night at stanford:
        http://continuingstudies.stanford.edu/course/EVT96.asp
        \- that GGS fellow is giving a talk on friday in SF. ok tnx.
           \_ url/time-location please
        \_ This guy is a Laser guy.  Why is he having a talk on gravitationa
              \- i dont have a url. sponsored by the long now people.
                 probably in NW quadrant of SF ... presideo or ft mason.
        \_ This guy is a Laser guy.  Why is he having a talk on gravitational
           waves?  What is nonlinear optics BTW?
           \_ Laser interferometry is an extremely sensitive detector of
              distance, including over long distances, which makes them
              useful for detecting gravity waves (since they should manifest
              themselves as distance fluctuations.)  As a laser guy, he's
              presumably involved at the detector end of things, and
              gravity waves make a much sexier topic for a talk like this
              than nonlinear optics (see below).
           \- narrowly, NLO is the study of the behavior of em radiation
              in "non linear" media ... which turns out to capture most
              complex optical phenomena. in practice, this is a pretty
              big catch all convering everyhting from lasers to lcds to
              "slowing light" and various other photonic manipulation
              projects. there are many applied subfields, including the
              obvious [like optical comm], but also less obvious ones [like
              obvious [like telecom], but also less obvious ones [like
              biology, but i dont know anything about that]. in terms of
              physical phenomena, it includes things like the raman effect
              and on the theroy side things like the theory of solitons.
              berkeley actually has some quite important people in this
              field [CHU, SHEN, TOWNES etc]. if there are any phyiscs grad
              student replying, feel free to delete this. optics is the only
              field where i came across septuple integrals. optics text
              books are a good way to scare normal people.
              area [CHU, SHEN, TOWNES etc].
              \_ It's fairly normal to see huge nested integrals in
                 belief propagation. -- ilyas
           \_ Laser interferometry is the leading method for detecting
              gravity waves (and possibly proving string theory). NASA
              is currently working on a space based laser interferometry
              system called LISA (Laser Interferometry Space Antenna)
              which is supposed to be a big laser triangle in space (3
              million miles each side) and will be able to detect gravity
              waves generated by black holes and stars.
              iirc, there is a current laser interferometry experiment
              called LIGO (Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave
              Observatory) that hopes to detect gravity waves from the
              big bang in order to show if some predictions of string
              theory are correct.
2005/7/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/President, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:38588 Activity:nil 76%like:38586
7/12    Another DeLay ally indicted:
        http://csua.org/u/cp3 (WashPo)
2017/11/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/20   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:12 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>