Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:07 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2005/7/7-8 [Uncategorized] UID:38446 Activity:kinda low
7/7     eric, is it safe to assume that people with last names like
        "Van De Whatever" and "Van Der Whatever" must have had
        Dutch ancestors?
        \_ How about adoptions?
        \_ How about adoptions?  Or a native taking up the the last name of
           a colonial?
        \_ How about people how change their name to that just because they
           feel like it?
        \_ "van" means "from" in Dutch, so unless that's true for another
           language that's most likely the case.  Note that Dutch or variants
           of Dutch are spoken in multiple countries - eric
           \- where is mario van peebles from?
              \_ He was born in Mexico. I'm going to guess that somewhere
                 down the line he has family from Holland or one of the
                 Dutch colonies like Aruba, Indonesia, or South Africa.
2005/7/7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38447 Activity:nil
7/6     http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/german/quickfix/coolgerman.shtml
        UK BBC has a great page on learning German. BTW they also teach
        you how to say "Gibt es hier einen Schwulenclub". Is this one
        of those lame attempts at humour?
        \_ http://csua.org/u/cmi  anyway, as we all know, all Germans are
           black turtleneck wearing homosexual pseudo-intellectuals, or beefy
           militaristic beach-towel-pool-chair-occupiers.  -John
           \_ German Teacher, Andrea Hoffman from Humboldt Univ is a BABE!
              Check her out! Babes like her make me want to move to Germany
              to meet pretty German babes, to learn beautiful sounding
              German language, and to eat world famous German food.
              http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/german/lj/intros/index.shtml
              \_ She is BUXOM TEUTONIC MAIDEN.  SHE VILL KRUSH YOU VHIZ HER
                 MIGHTY THIGHS.
                 \_ Mm, run Lola run!
2005/7/7 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:38448 Activity:nil
7/7     Any recommendations for Mac OS X (TIger) chinese word processor
        software? Ideally for professional use and cross-platform.
        Previously used NJStar on windows. Thanks.
        \_ MacOS X has Chinese input built in.  You don't need a separate
           Chinese word processor -- just use Microsoft Word, or whatever
           word processor you prefer.  The same is true for Windows 2000
           and above.
           \_ thx! -op
2005/7/7 [Computer/SW/Apps, Recreation/Humor] UID:38449 Activity:nil
7/6     http://www.geekcruises.com
        \_ I thought this was a humor link until I clicked further and saw
           a plethora of PDFs that contain real information, or information
           too detailed to not have been a joke.
           \_ Wow.  I've only known about Linux Lunacy.  Didn't know there
              so many others.  The Photoshop Fling and Roaming Reflection
              seems like a good option for a photographer.
2005/7/7 [Uncategorized] UID:38450 Activity:nil
7/6     Hipster Zombies Vs. Live Action Role-Playing Nerds!!!!111!!
        http://csua.org/u/cmh
2005/7/7 [Uncategorized] UID:38451 Activity:low
7/6     Hello, I am the Chimp in Chief and I approve this message:
     .-"-.            .-"-.            .-"-.           .-"-.
   _/_-.-_\_        _/.-.-.\_        _/.-.-.\_       _/.-.-.\_
  / __} {__ \      /|( o o )|\      ( ( o o ) )     ( ( o o ) )
 / //  "  \\ \    | //  "  \\ |      |/  "  \|       |/  "  \|
/ / \'---'/ \ \  / / \'---'/ \ \      \'/^\'/         \ .O. /
\ \_/`"""`\_/ /  \ \_/`"""`\_/ /      /`\ /`\         /`"""`\
 \           /    \           /      /  /|\  \       /       \
  See no casket   Hear no terror  Speak no dissent   God Bless Monkey
        \_ HA HA HA HA!  That's SOOOOO funny!
           Oh wait, no it's just stupid.
2005/7/7-8 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:38452 Activity:nil
7/6     Australian housing bubble.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/realestate/05aussie.html
2005/7/7-8 [Computer/Networking] UID:38453 Activity:nil 80%like:38458
7/6     Steal someone else's wifi, go to jail:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/techbits_wi_fi_theft
2005/7/7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:38454 Activity:high
7/6     So wait, a member of the "liberal" New York Times just took
        a fall for the Bush Administration? How is Rush Limbaugh
        going to spin this one?
              \- when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
        \_ Interesting data point:
           http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/7/1148/62336
           Miller's filthy.  I don't know that she should be in prison
           for "protecting sources", but she definitely needs to be in
           prison.
        \_ it hurts my head to sort out the timeline of how this
           happened, maybe someone could summarize.  judith miller
           spewed a bunch of horseshit about Iraq leading
           up to the war and has no friends.
           \_ Judith Miller is one of the reasons that the WMD "threat" was
              so badly reported and covered. Fuck her and fuck the NYT.
              \_ I think Judith Miller is a putz too, but I think that
                 reporters being able to maintain the confidentiality of
                 their sources is even more important. --liberal
                 \- this is not the relationship of a journalist and a
                    source, it is the relationships of a criminal suspect
                    and an (unwitting?) accomplice. it is a narrow case and
                    the procedurual obligations are adequate to limit the
                    chilling effect. it has nothing to do with miller
                    being a putz but the nature of of what was revealed
                    being against public policy. i think the one thing you
                    can reasonably argue for is the journalist should be
                    entited to his or her own jury trial [so jury nullification
                    is an option beyond judicial checks and balances, should
                    some secrecy obsessed "hypothetical" executive branch
                    pass some law making all whistleblowing/leaking a crime]
                    and not subjec tto detention by a sole judge for contempt.
                    this is not an absolute right but one for a certain
                    public policy end and thus is limited to a scope consistent
                    with those ends.
2005/7/7 [Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:38455 Activity:high
7/7     You think BA public transit is bad?
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4659243.stm  -John
        \_ I can't tell exactly which tube lines were bombed and where.  I have
           several friends in London and I'm wondering if they were affected.
           --lye
           \_ Goddammit.  None of the American media seem to care WHERE the
              bombs were, just that they happened.  --lye
2005/7/7 [Uncategorized] UID:38456 Activity:nil
7/7     Hey Motd Pruner! Could you leave entries up for 24 hours at least?
        \_ Low importance threads pruned for London discussion.  Discretion
           was used.
           \_ So... who pruned the London thread?
              \_ restored. -not pruner
2005/7/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38457 Activity:high
7/7     LONDON'S BURNING
                \_ Nuked again.  You're a moron.  I did not write this, and
                   I will continue to put this here.  Keep it up.  -John
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4659243.stm  -John
              \_ Don't you just love CNN's tasteless "WE JUST WANTED TO DIE"
                 headline?
                 \_ http://CNN.com is definitely the most tabloidy of the major
                    online news sites.  Even http://foxnews.com is respectable.
                    Is it bad then if http://CNN.com is the 10th most visited web site
                    in the entire world?
           \_ I just got through to my cousin in London. She said that
              every line through King's Cross was affected. She normally
              takes a train that passes through King's Cross around 8:45
              AM but today she was late for work and missed the train.
              Thank god. --ranga
               \- you know about half the lines go through King's X/Pancras
                  routing cloud.
                  \_ I'll take your word for it. I've only been to London
                     once and I didn't really pay attention to the tube
                     stations other than the ones I absolutely needed to
                     know about.
                     Anyway, my cousin says that the news over there still
                     isn't saying which train(s) the bombs were on but
                     that several trains in and out of Kings Cross were
                     damaged by the bombs. I'm just glad that she wasn't
                     anywhere near there today. --ranga
        \_ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/07/tube_explosions
           ...three explosions on tube trains between Aldgate and
           Liverpool St, at Edgware Road and between Russell Square
           and King's Cross...
           ...There was also an explosion on a Number 30 bus -
           travelling from Hackney to Marble Arch - in Tavistock Square...
           \- if it went off in Tav. Sq, that is near the Russell Sq. Stn.
              Marble Arch is not close to that area. If you know London
              slighly, one was north of the City of London, two north of
              the British Museum and one near Paddington Station.
              \_ Sounds like everyone I know should be okay, then, although
                 I can't even imagine the transit nightmare that they are
                 dealing with at the moment - how many millions of people
                 use the tube every day? --lye
                 \_ Apparently the bus system is also shut...
        \_ I can't tell exactly which tube lines were bombed and where.  I have
           several friends in London and I'm wondering if they were affected.
           --lye
           \_ Goddammit.  None of the American media seem to care WHERE the
              bombs were, just that they happened.  --lye
        \_ And this because we "invaded" 2 Arab countries? How can you people
           continue to believe this is not a matter of us vs. them?
           \_ "You people?" Can we at least wait until the fucking blood is
              dry before starting the trolling and flame wars?  Fucking
              christ on a stick.
              \_ The blood's been dry since 9/11
              \_ Don't you just love CNN's tasteless "WE JUST WANTED TO DIE"
                 headline?
           \_ I just got through to my cousin in London. She said that
              every line through King's Cross was affected. She normally
              takes a train that passes through King's Cross around 8:45
              AM but today she was late for work and missed the train.
              Thank god. --ranga
               \- you know about half the lines go through King's X.
               \- you know about half the lines go through King's X/Pancras
                  routing cloud.
                  \_ I'll take your word for it. I've only been to London
                     once and I didn't really pay attention to the tube
                     stations other than the ones I absolutely needed to
                     know about.
                     Anyway, my cousin says that the news over there still
                     isn't saying which train(s) the bombs were on but
                     that several trains in and out of Kings Cross were
                     damaged by the bombs. I'm just glad that she wasn't
                     anywhere near there today. --ranga
        \_ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/07/tube_explosions
              \_ Map with blasts: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659957.stm
        \_ And this because we "invaded" 2 Arab countries? How can you people
           continue to believe this is not a matter of us vs. them?
           \_ "You people?" Can we at least wait until the fucking blood is
              dry before starting the trolling and flame wars?  Fucking
              christ on a stick.
              \_ The blood's been dry since 9/11
                 \_ Oh give it a rest.  Try to have some respect for the dead.
           \_ Who is denying that it's a matter of us vs. them?  I think the
              main point of the reality-based community is that we should be
              pursuing terrorists, not trumping up reasons to invade
              countries with secular governments and no ties to terrorists.
              -tom
        \_ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/07/tube_explosions
           ...three explosions on tube trains between Aldgate and
           Liverpool St, at Edgware Road and between Russell Square
           and King's Cross...
           ...There was also an explosion on a Number 30 bus -
           travelling from Hackney to Marble Arch - in Tavistock Square...
           \- if it went off in Tav. Sq, that is near the Russel Sq. Stn.
              marble arch is not close to that location. if you know london
           \- if it went off in Tav. Sq, that is near the Russell Sq. Stn.
              marble arch is not close to that area. if you know london
              slighly, one was north of the City of London, two north of
              the British Museum and one near Paddington Station.
              \_ Sounds like everyone I know should be okay, then, although
                 I can't even imagine the transit nightmare that they are
                 dealing with at the moment - how many millions of people
                 use the tube every day? --lye
                 \_ Apparently the bus system is also shut...
              \_ The Taliban govt was a secular govt?
                 \_ No, I supported the action in Afghanistan and thought
                    it was foolish to split our efforts by invading Iraq.
                    We still have something like 5-10 times the number of
                    troops in Iraq compared to Afghanistan.  -tom
              \_ I know what you're trying to say, but both the Tablian
                 and Iraq had well known ties to terrorists.  Sheesh.
                 \- ^Iraq^Pakistan
                 \_ umm... hello... Iraq had no fucking ties with Al-Qaeda,
                    and no fucking ties with 9/11. I can't believe you're
                    just wildly spewing baseless talking points.
                    \_ I don't recall saying "Al-Qaeda" or "9/11."
                       Saddam pays Palestinian Suicide Bombers:
                 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2846365.stm
                 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48822,00.html
                       \_ oooh... palestinian terrorist support.  Do you
                          have any idea how many arab countries have given
                          money and support to palestinians over the years?
                          Why aren't we invading them?  Why don't we invade
                          Pakistan and their support of terrorism in Kashmir?
                          For fuck's sake, you want to go rooting out
                          regional terrorism in every part of the known world.
                          \_ Seesh, are you being trollish on purpose?  As
                             I said, I know what tom meant, and I even
                             agree, invading Iraq wasn't exactly a
                             brilliant idea.  All I said was that the
                             statement "[Iraq had] no ties to terrorists"
                             is factually incorrect.
                             \_ Apologies for jumping down your throat.  Your
                                original statement lumped both Iraq and Afgh.
                                into the same group, and they clearly aren't.
                 \_ What terrorists did Iraq have well-known ties to?
                    The rest of the world has no idea what you're talking
                    about.
                        \- Abu Nidal lived in Baghdad. Iraq had terrorist
                           ties but not sig ties to the 9/11 effort.
                           If we dont limit to 9/11 lots of countries
                           have "terrorist ties".
                    \_ LOOK! It's a missing white girl on an island with
                       lots of black people! Oooo! Shiny!
                           \_ Good point. Also see: http://csua.org/u/cmq
                           \_ Including the US. Remember the Contras?
        \_ Without *trying* to sound callow about all those wounded and
           killed today, I think that if killing 40+ innocent civilians
           is the best that Al Qaeda can do after months/years of planning
           then the organization is weak indeed. One loon with a gun at
           a McDonald's managed that. Britain is the US' best ally and
           that's all they can come up with?
           \- one theory about AQ is there are have little self-help cells
              which come up with their own plans. so this may not have been
              something with 100s of players behind the scenes. the IRA
              bombing campaing didnt kill that many people but it sure
              \_ Maybe not their bombing, but the IRA did kill 1500+
                 \- so did the israeli army.
              affected a lot of people. this will certainly have repercussions.
           \_ What they're saying is that what they did in Spain they could
              do in London.
              What you could be asking is, "What kind of security did they use
              on those London trains, and how much does it differ from BART
              security?"
              You can assume Spain was the first time they tried something like
              that, so they weren't ready for that shit.
           \_ The goal of this form of terrorism isn't about killing the
              enemy. It's about getting them to leave your people alone.
              Numbers are important only because it gets attention. The London
              bombings are just a little reminder that AQ is out there, a
              spitwad in the back of the neck. Now comes the overreaction by
              the English public (internal domestic retribution) and additional
              self-doubt about policies in Iraq.
              \_ So I guess it was an overreaction from the Spanish public and
                 additional self-doubt about policies in Iraq?  Cowards!
                 \_ Domestic overreaction is great news for AQ. One of the
                    hardest things to do in espionage is to create a true mole,
                    someone who works on the inside of the opposition, but is
                    totally commited to your cause. The slightly disaffected
                    English Muslims can be pushed into an extremist position
                    if the English public reacts badly. The problem with
                    demanding an answer to 'us or them" are the people who
                    say "us" but no longer believe.
              \_ I guess 9/11 really worked out well then from Al Qaeda's
                 point of view. We're leaving them alone more than ever
                 now.
                 \_ 9/11 was publicity. AQ played it badly in Afghanistan
                    when the Taliban couldn't control the warlords, but came
                    back when the Coalition invaded Iraq. AQ's ranks have
                    expanded with help from the percieved "new Western crusade"
                    against Islam. AQ's line has always been "leave us alone."
                    The problem WAS getting enough support to actually do it.
                    Now they are gaining new extremists who believe in the
                    cause.
                    \_ Even if they got zero recruits, there goal is not
                       to isolation. You can not reason with it.
                       \_ Sure you can. There is a compromise situation. It's
                          just unacceptable to a huge majority of the people it
                          would affect. The "us" mentioned above mean forcibly
                          creating a state of tens to hundreds of millions
                          similar to Afghanistan circa 2000, including many
                          Muslim holy places and all of Israel. It would make
                          "Jesusland" look like Las Vegas.
2005/7/7 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/Security] UID:38458 Activity:nil 80%like:38453
7/6     Steal someone else's wife, go to jail:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/techbits_wi_fi_theft
2005/7/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:38459 Activity:nil 66%like:38434
7/6     http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050706/ap_on_sp_ol/oly_2012_bids
        London Upsets Paris to Win 2012 Olympics.
        \_ Most of my English colleagues didn't care about the olympics, they
           just wanted to piss off the French.  Chirac making disparaging
           comments about Finnish food when the difference was 4 votes, 2 of
           them Finnish, also was pretty smart.  -John
           \_ Is it like the relationship between us and Stanfraud -- we don't
              care if we win the ACM, we just want to beat Stanfraud?
        \_ Wonder if the committee is having second thoughts now.
2005/7/7-9 [Recreation/Humor] UID:38460 Activity:low Cat_by:auto
7/7     Here's a fairly amusing comic about being an exchange student in
        Russia:
        http://www.bigcheesepress.com/brandt.php?n=f
        \_ Wow.  It's like a blog, but much, much more work.  I like.
        \_ I read through the lot of them, overall it's okay, but this one
           made me laugh out loud:
           http://www.bigcheesepress.com/brandt.php?c=2005-07-01
           -dans
           \_ HAHA. That guy looks just like someone I know from Ukrain.
        \_ Heh, cute. I like, too. And I got a kick out of the same one dans
           did, too.  -alexf
        \_ IMO, the Russia strips are kind of week compared to her ones from
           home, though the once I picked out above is still my favorite:
           http://www.dailycardinalcomics.com/everyonedrunkbutme
           -dans
           \- i have no idea what any of the above means but i though
              comment at #7 by ucb math prof R. BORCHERDS was pretty
              entertaining, from: http://csua.org/u/ahe
              Feel free to gift me any of those books. ok tnx.
              \_ "Bogoliubov was probably the leading Soviet field theorist.
                 The claim on the back that this is an undergraduate textbook
                 should not be taken seriously outside Russia."  Haha! -- ilyas
                 \- my other russian associates also found this pretty
                    humorous [berkeley physics phd, ucsf phd].
2005/7/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:38461 Activity:low
7/7     "We will find them. We will bring them to justice." -- Bush
        \_ "If [Osama bin Laden] thinks he can hide and run from the
           United States and our allies, he will be sorely mistaken."
             -- Bush, 9/15/01
           "I don't know where he is.  You know, I just don't spend
           that much time on him"
             -- Bush, 3/13/02
                \_ Oh this oft-quoted comment taken out of context.
                   You libs ever read the ENTIRE speech? Look it up!
                   You may find the 2nd half a little more interesting.
                   \_ It wasn't a speech. It was a press conference.  He
                      says OBL has been marginalized which is highly debatable.
                      He said that we have a strategy and it's working.  Do
                      you believe that?  And if so, please explain it to us
                      so that we too can support this strategy.
                      \_ I'm sure your years of military/CT service will
                         help you with your Monday morning quarterbacking.
                         The truth is, these numbers are tiny. The enemy
                         is elusive and unable to directly fight.
                         \_ And of course we gathered our friends and allies
                            and took a systematic, worldwide approach to
                            tracking them, their money, and their associates.
                            Oh, wait.  No.  We invaded Iraq instead.
                   \_ The second half says that there are more important
                      things like 1. our soldiers are well supplied, 2.
                      our strategy is clear, and 3. our coalition is
                      strong. Well, Bush failed on all three. So how
                      is that "more interesting"?
           "[Osama bin Laden is] either alive and well, or alive and
           not too well, or not alive."
             -- Rumsfeld, 10/7/02
           \_ He forgot the "zombie - neither living nor dead" option.
              \_ Osama the Undead! Maybe he could be the last boss in
                 the next Resident Evil game.
                 \_ Osama bin Zombie!
                        \_ Send more special forces!
2005/7/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Canada] UID:38462 Activity:high
7/7     Poll, who do you think is behind the London attack?
        IRA:
        Osama:
        Muslim fundie:
        Local British:
        \_ havent heard from IRA for a while, what happened?
           \_ They declared a cease fire in 1997. Some splinter group
              did some minor stuff since then, but mostly it has held.
        Osama:
        Muslim fundie:
        Lord British:
        \- possibly a self-help AQ "franchise" ... who may not have hierachical
           ties to OBL but wont be disowned by AQ-Central.
        French Olympians:
        CIA:
        The chickens are coming home to roost:
        http://csua.org/u/cmy
        \_ If this in any way shape or form is meant to imply that "they are
           now paying for xyz", you are a fucking baboon.  If not, ignore this.
           The fucking cunts who do this sort of stuff HATE YOU.  THEY HATE YOU
           BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO BEARD AND BECAUSE YOUR SISTER KNOWS HOW TO READ.
           THEY DON'T NEED AN EXCUSE.  There, just had to get that out of my
           system.  -John
           \_ You don't fight terror with more terror. That just leads to
              situations like Northern Ireland and Gaza. Who cares if someone
              10,000 miles away doesn't like me, if he leaves me alone, I will
              leave him alone. The vast majority of the world feels the same
              way I do. Only a few crackpots want to hunt down everyone who
              lives differently than them and exterminate them. These few
              crackpots, on both sides, have somehow taken control of world
              military and foreign policty.
              \_ I was making no statements about how to fight it.  I simply
                 stated that the whores who do this do not need a justification
                 for their acts--your very way of life suffices.  Yes, I know
                 that a lot of American international policy is flawed, but to
                 be honest, I think kidnapping a few people and sending homw
                 a finger or two is not beyond the pale and can be very
                 effective.  -John
              \_ do you think the united states and our citizens would have
                 the same standard of living if we didn't mess with the rest of
                 world and just took your isolationist/conservative view of the
                 world?
                 \_ Yeah, we might have to live like Canadians or Swedes.
                    \_ You think the entire West doesn't benefit from the US
                       being as it is?  You think Canada could afford to be so
                       happy-go-lucky if they had to defend themselves like
                       nations traditionally have had to do so?  We live in a
                       unique period of history where one global hyper power
                       has taken a reasonably benevolent stance towards the
                       rest of the world, allowing most people to get on with
                       living.  If the US were the vicious bastards some make
                       us out to be, Canada would be the first nation to fall.
                       \_ No, I don't think Canada or even the United States
                          really benefits from the flawed "beat them until
                          they love you" strategy. Let's look at it with
                          regards to a similar, but domestic problem. If the
                          United States decided that the best way to deal
                          with gang violence was to bomb neighborhoods where
                          gang members were known to live and to order air
                          strikes on gang members homes, killing the gang
                          member and his family alike, do you think it would
                          decrease or increase the amount of violence in
                          America?
                          \_ False framing.  Let's look at it another way: if
                             the US decided to deal with gang violence by using
                             special forces to knock on doors, confiscate
                             weapons/drugs, arrest those with caches and shoot
                             those who resist violently, do you think gang
                             violence would increase or decrease?  Anyway,
                             this is not at all what I was getting at.  My
                             point being that your conservative/isolationist
                             head-in-sand strategy will not make the world a
                             better place for anyone but dictators and other
                             assorted brutal murderers.
2005/7/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:38463 Activity:nil
7/7     AP reported that Netanyahu was warned about the bombings.  The Israeli
        government denies it.  Who's running the AP?
        http://csua.org/u/cml
        http://csua.org/u/cmm
        \_ Whatever this persons's posting method is completely evades kchang's
           scripts.
2005/7/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:38464 Activity:moderate
7/7     If only the CIA didn't fuck it up by telling Dubya that Saddam had WMDs
        ... then we might actually have caught Osama, had Afghanistan as a
        beacon of post-9/11 success and a template for international
        cooperation, and had reserve forces at home ready for real threats.
        Instead ... U.S. soldiers are in Iraq saying "We don't fucking have
        enough troops" and Dubya's people are saying "We won't send any more
        fucking troops because it will make things worse", enabling terrorists
        to get trained and exported from Iraq.  SNAFU.  Doh.
        \_ I think gwbush made up his mind about invading Iraq long
           before any intelligence from the CIA got to him, I think it's
           dumb to blame the CIA
           \_ Indeed, Bush was talking about invading Iraq as far back as
              1999.
           \_ Well, that's certainly an opinion held by many Americans, just
              like the opinion that Dubya relied on intelligence that was dead
              wrong.  I could see the latter group calling your opinion dumb,
              which doesn't get us anywhere. -op
              \_ Take a look throught these essays, letters, and editorials:
                 http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqmiddleeast2000-1997.htm
                 Several of them are signed by both Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld, and
                 they wanted to invade Iraq since 1998 or before.  For better
                 or for worse, they planned this war long before 9/11.
        \_ The CIA didn't fuck up, they did exactly what they were ordered to
           do -- they told Dubya what he wanted to hear ; what he wanted them
           to tell him.
        \_ Yes the world would be safer with Saddam in power. Al-queda would
           leave the West alone. And we all sing kum-by-a around the fire
           place at night.
           \_ Yawn. Your sarcasm is misplaced.
           \_ We are definitely not singing kum-by-a now after removal of
              Saddam.
              \_ Whether Saddam supported terrorism or not, it's no great
                 stretch to imagine terrorists taking refuge in Iraq with
                 Saddam's blessing.
                 \_ I can imagine you storing 5 golf balls up your ass,
                    does that make it true?
                 \_ !AQ. There were ideological differences between the two
                    that could not be reconciled.
                 \_ Yes, but now we don't have to imagine it.
                 \_ I can imagine all kinds of things, but I think we should
                    deal with real threats, not imaginary ones.
                 \_ Saddam had the perfect reason to not allow terrorists
                    within his borders. They would have been the perfect
                    reason to invade/continue to deny sactions/stop the
                    oil-for-food sales.
        \_ Do you actually think capturing OBL would be good? It would only
           turn him into a martyr and rally support around him. The best
           thing we could possibly do is keep him contained and let him
           fade into obscurity IMO.
           \_ That's because you're an idiot.
              \_ No.
           \_ No, the best thing we could do is to convert to Islam. That
              way he will be less inclined to attack us. We should also
              hide Korans in all major terrorist targets. That way, when
              they are blown up the burning Korans will fly out everywhere
              and land in gutters &c. Then we can denounce bin Laden,
              exploder of Korans.
              \_ Doesn't work.  Muslim terrorists blow up mosques full of
                 Korans all the time.  It's only bad if an infidel
                 accidently holds on with one hand.  That's way worse.
2005/7/7-9 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Computer/Theory] UID:38465 Activity:nil
7/7     I never took AI but I'd like to learn something about Bayesian
        belief, inference, etc. Something like a 10 page intro PDF or
        a URL would be useful. Recommendation?
        \_ http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~murphyk/Bayes/bayes.html
           Kevin is a former Cal grad student, btw.  Very smart guy. -- ilyas
                 \- how do you know kevin?
                    http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/ASSOCIATES/Mike+Kevin81.jpg
                    He actually fits into this story:
                      *Boredcast Message from 'psb': Mon Aug  4 15:22:19 2003
                      ||let's see: A is hosting B for a few days ... B
                      ||who used to date C who is marrying D who was
                      ||interested in A and was told by B to go out with
                      ||A. D was the roomate of the office mate of E who
                      ||used to date X and later dated F who got
                      ||together with B.
                      ||A = psb
                      ||X = rob pike
                    I note in passing B also works on graphical models and
                    was formerly trafficking with various UCLA and Harvard
                    and Berkeley Bayesians.
                    \_ I worked on Kevin's toolbox a long long time ago.
                       We took some classes together also.  Kevin interviewed
                       at UCLA for a faculty position, but didn't take it.
                         -- ilyas
           \_ spasibo ilya! That is exactly what I was looking for. You are
              a very cool guy. Why do people make fun of you?
              \_ Probably because I am considered the motd retard. -- ilyas
2005/7/7-11 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:38466 Activity:nil
7/7     So my old first gen Apex 600 dvd player is starting to show its age.
        It has served me well over the years.  What the new "cool" dvd
        player to get?  Region Unlock and ability to play DVD-R is at the
        top of the requirement.  Thanks.
        \_ when was apex ever "cool"?
           \_ Any dvd player that has the "you should not be here" menu
              is cool.
              For OP - if you don't mind mod'ing, I'd say go w/ an xbox.
           \_ It was the first well known dvd player in US to play every media
              you throw at it and can disable region encoding and macrovision
              right from the secret menu.  It sold out at most Circuit Cities
              when the word got out and had weeks-worth of waitlist.  It
              practically created the hobby of modding set-top dvd players.
        \_ Go to http://videohelp.com, click on DVD Players, Order by Rating, select
           options you want, click Search, identify the ones with lots of
           reviews.  E.g., the Philips DVP642 (available on Amazon for $63)
           supports DivX, progressive scanning, can be region-hacked by
           pressing buttons on the remote, and has lots of positive reviews.
           On the other hand, if you search for DivX + progressive + DVI/HDMI
           output, you only get 7 hits.  Fun.
           \_ Of course the Philips DVP642 has a crappy remote, can't fast
              forward faster than 8x IIRC, and barfs on many DivX files.  I
              returned it within 24 hours of buying it.
              \_ What do you have now?
                 \_ An old AIWA that needs to be replaced.  But its remote is
                    fantastic and I can't find anything else I like.
        \_ I'm currently thinking about getting this:
           http://tinyurl.com/8kjhc (amazon.com)
2005/7/7-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:38467 Activity:nil
7/7     Is there an easy way in Perl to parse command-line arguments like:
        -opt1 val1 -opt2 val2?
        \_ Getopt::Std module
           \_ Ah, thank you--both for the useful answer and the quick reply.
           \_ Specifically, look at the getopts() function in there.
        \_ How about in Python?
           \_ python has a standard getopt too. stfw.
2005/7/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:38468 Activity:high
7/7     Isn't it amazing that Timothy McVeigh's 1 bomb killed 168 people in
        open space, but 4 bombs in the London tunnel killed 1/4 of that? Thank
        god Al Qaeda isn't compenent enough to build McVeigh-strength bombs.
        \_ there's nothing complicated about a truckload of ANFO.  Al queda
           could easily do the same thing.
        \_ Al Qaeda didn't use any bombs on 9/11.
        \_ It's pretty tricky to get a Ryder truck on the subway.
        \_ The IRA set of a truck bomb (with ~1 ton of fertilizer) in the
           City of London in 1993.  That was on a Saturday morning, and only
           1 was killed.  (I actually went to a meeting near Bishopsgate the
           day before the bomb went off.)  In comparison, the McVeigh bomb
           had ~3 tons of fertilizer, and it was set off on a Wednesday
           morning.  The McVeigh bomb killed 168 people.
           \_ I heard the IRA used to call the police to give out warning for
              evacuation between when a bomb was planted and when it would go
              off.
              \_ Actually, the IRA would call and warn for evacuation and
                 sometimes there was no bomb. I was in Covent Garden for one
                 of these. My fellow employees explained this happened
                 frequently. The truth was planting actual bombs was a losing
                 affair for the IRA. Causing a disturbance without the negative
                 vibe from actually injured/killed people was working for them
                 pretty well. It's still FUBAR if you ask me but quite
                 different from my perceptions when all I knew about it was
                 what I learned from the news. -- ulysses
              \_ The London police was in the middle of evacuating the City
                 when the bomb went off.  I am not sure if the information
                 source was an illicit informer or back channel.  The IRA
                 even used to apologize when their bombs accidentally kill
                 kids.
                 \_ If you set off a bomb it doesn't "accidentally" kill
                    children.  Sorry, buzz.  A random terrorist bombing kills
                    people big and small.  Fuck the IRA pretending they
                    are better than any other terrorists.
                    \_ The IRA kills a lot fewer people by accident than
                       the US Air Force does. Fuck the Air Force pretending
                       they are better than other terrorists.
                       \_ Be careful Jim. They are watching liberals like you.
                          \_ Oh boo hoo, I am really fucking scared of idiots
                             like you, Mark. Call the FBI and tell them I
                             said something bad about the Air Force on the
                             motd.
                       \_ Oh fuck you with a broken broomstick.  If you can't
                          understand the difference between war and PUTTING A
                          FUCING BOMB IN THE MIDDLE OF CIVILIANS INTENTIONALLY
                          go choke on a broken-glass sandwich.
                          \_ The Air Force deliberately puts bombs in the
                             middle of civilian places all the time. Why
                             is that okay, in your book of moral relavancy?
                             Was firebombing Dresden a war crime or not?
                             I am sure the IRA killed far fewer civilians
                             per bomb attack than the Air Force does.
                             \_ [insert "Dresden was transit hub for German
                                troops" vs. "Dresden was cultural center"
                                debate here]
                             \_ Very simple.  The US Military wears
                                uniforms, and operates by the rules of war.
                                Terrorists do not.  This is why you extend
                                Geneva to soldiers but not terrorists.  This
                                is why civilian casualties in war is a different
                                animal from terrorist casualties.  There is
                                also the matter of intent.  The US Military
                                doesn't want to harm civilians, and is going to
                                extraordinary lengths (unheard of throughout
                                history) to avoid harming civilians, even if
                                this means putting its soldiers under extra
                                risk.  Terrorists harm civilians as a goal.
                                There is a difference in law between
                                manslaughter and first degree murder for a
                                reason.  Finally, learn to fucking spell.
                                  -- ilyas
                                \_ yeah, this is why we use napalm.  to
                                   avoid civilian casualties.
                                   \_ Napalm has its legitimate war use.
                                      But of course you never bothered to
                                      read or study the lengths at which
                                      the military avoids collateral
                                      damage. Your frame of thought is
                                      one life accidently killed is too much.
                                      I hope one day you are a plane with
                                      Al-queda when it dawns on you that this
                                      is a numbers game.
                                \_ I disagree. Mass civilian casualties was the
                                \_ Bullshit. Mass civilian casualties was the
                                   stated intent of the firebombings of Dresden
                                   and Tokyo. And we are discussing the IRA,
                                   which went out of its way to avoid civilian
                                   casualties, too, not some mythical
                                   "terrorist" bogeyman you dreamed up.
                                   Deliberate targeting of civilians is
                                   always a crime. And killing civilians,
                                   except in self-defence, always should be.
                                   The War in Iraq was in no sense a war
                                   of self-defence.
                                   \_ Wait.  The IRA went out of its way to
                                      avoid civilian casualties when it
                                      planted bombs?  That's a new one on me.
                                      What do you suppose the purpose of those
                                      bombs was for?  What was the intended
                                      target? -- ilyas
                                      \_ Knee-jerk uninformed "US army = teh
                                         ghei baby kilerz" b.s. aside, he's
                                         actually right--the IRA's main point
                                         was to show "hey, look what we can do,
                                         whenever we feel like it."  Civilian
                                         casualties, like at Hiroshima, were an
                                         "oh yeah, by the way" sort of thing.
                                         Unlike ETA, which wants to kill
                                         civilians.  And Dresden _was_ part of
                                         a deliberate campaign to both disrupt
                                         strategic communications and terrorize
                                         people--a legitimate but regrettably
                                         uninformed and ill-conceived goal at
                                         the time.  Do yourself a favor and
                                         ignore the "everything the US does is
                                         terrorist" trolls.  -John
                                      \_  http://csua.org/u/cn0
                                          See table 2.
                                          The IRA targeted the British
                                          Army, RUC and UCR, mostly.
                                          http://csua.org/u/cn1 (PBS)
                                          Okay, this analysis is biased,
                                          but it gets to the heart of it.
                                   \_ The problem is terrorists don't kill
                                      enough people with their bombs. The
                                      US and its allies was able to kill
                                      hundreds of thousands in a single
                                      bombing run. It's like that quote:
                                      "Kill a man, and you are a murderer.
                                      Kill millions of men, and you are a
                                      conqueror. Kill everyone, and you are
                                      a god."  Or Stalin: "one death is a
                                      tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic"
                                      In order to be legitimate, they'd need
                                      to wipe out large chunks of cities
                                      on a regular basis.
                                          The IRA targetted the British
                                          military and RUC, mostly.
2005/7/7-8 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:38469 Activity:nil
7/8     Is there a good website to check the origin of a last name?
        searching the web turns up lots of useless pay sites.
        \_ You could put the name into the Ellis Island database:
           http://www.ellisisland.org
           They list the home of each listed immigrant there, so you can
           get an idea of where people with that name were comming from.
        \_ ask on the motd
2005/7/7-12 [Uncategorized] UID:38470 Activity:nil
7/7     Anyone here works for mySimon?  How is the company doing?
2005/7/7-10 [Politics/Domestic] UID:38471 Activity:kinda low
7/7     Endowment per student:
        Princeton: $1,492,065
        Harvard:   $1,147,146
        $tanford:  $  602,217
        Cal:       $   61,594
        \_ Interesting discussion of endowments in the Ivy League:
           http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/cheri/wp/cheri_wp16.pdf
           The 90's drastically increased the wealth gap among universities,
           even just within the Ivy League.
        \_ rich private, rich private, rich private, PUBLIC SCHOOL.
           get a life, eat shit, go away, etc.
           \_ it would be interesting to see how much UT Austin's endowment/
              student is since I believe their endowment is second only to
              Harvard's in absolute terms
        \_ Yes we know. We got the same pamphlet in the mail.
        \_ Why? Because Princeton treats their students like a mother treats
           her children, whereas Berkeley treats their students like the
           real world treats them. Berkeley treated me like SHIT, why should
           I donate a single penny. If they want us to donate anything,
           maybe they should cut costs on stupid things like athletic
           equipments and field upgrades and spend it on BASIC things that
           matter, like better/more housing, less student-to-prof ratio
           in introductory classes so that we don't have to CRASH them
           all the time. Also the L&S administrators are aloof and don't
           seem to care about anyone. And while I'm at it, they just should
           do something about long lines and red tapes. Oh well, it'll never
           happen.
        \_ So?  Cal also has more students.  What do you expect?
        \_ So?  Cal also has more students.
        \_ But Cal is also funded in part by the state (although that
           funding is drying up), so in a sense all Californians are
           endowing it.
           \_ you're not exactly clear what is meant by "endowment" here,
              are you?
              \_ No, I'm not, are the numbers meant to be total endowment
                 amount or just private endowments? When figures like this
                 are posted one tends to automatically think "private
                 endowments." If that's the calculation including public
                 endowments then it is a sad state of affairs. However,
                 does public endowments automatically include what the
                 state directly and indirectly supports? What about
                 endowments to graduate programs?
                \_ My endownment is large and tax free.
        \_ Cal doesn't invest the donations it recieves, it spends them
           as fast as it can. Otherwise, the State would give it less
           money.
           \_ do you see cal's spending habits as a good thing?  wouldn't it
              be nice if uc or at least cal wasnt entirely depending on ever
              shrinking funds from the state?  had they invested all the money
              all these years instead of whatever they did with it, would cal
              be better off financially today?
              \_ If Cal had invested it, Davis or Schwartzenneger would have
                 just raided it the first time they got in trouble. AFAIK,
                 Cal mostly built buildings with it, which is fine by me.
                 \_ Not if it is in some trust for that purpose.  What would
                    have happened is the UC system would have ended up
                    financially independent and got nothing from the state
                    except maybe a capital expenditures budget.  Ya know...
                    buildings.
                    \_ Why do you think there is no such trust? The Trustees
                       of the UC aren't political naifs. They know that the
                       existence of a huge enodowment would prove irresistible
                       to greedy politicians. They would use it as an excuse
                       to cut the UC budget entirely.
                 \_ Or the unions would just strike until they got it.
                    It's useful to be able to say you don't have any money
                    in a public organization.  School districts expend an
                    incredible amount of effort on hiding money from the
                    teachers unions so that they have some for something
                    else.
2005/7/7-8 [Uncategorized] UID:38472 Activity:low
7/7     Brit Hume's first thought on hearing of London attacks?  Time to buy!
        http://mediamatters.org/items/200507070007
        \_ Talk about deceptive titles.  Can we just drop http://mm.org?  His whole
           quote (bold in the http://mm.org article):
           "I mean, my first thought when I heard -- just on a personal basis,
           when I heard there had been this attack AND I SAW THE FUTURES THIS
           MORNING, which were really in the tank, I thought, 'Hmmm, time to
           buy.'"
           \_ How does that make it better?
              \_ Because his thought resulted from seeing the futures numbers,
                 not simply by hearing about the attack.  And he's right on.
                 \_ So you don't find it at all tactless?
                    \_ Are you kidding?  He was asked a question about the
                       futures.  He saw the futures dip.  He answered the
                       question.  It's not tactless.  What I find appalling is
                       http://MM.org's deceptive title.
                       \_ Wow, you sure twisted yourself in knots to excuse
                          the heartless bastard.  Way to go!
                          \_ Well, you're an idiot.  Just because he saw the
                             futures numbers and didn't ignore them doesn't
                             make him heartless.  Where did the quote indicate
                             that he didn't have sympathy for the injured or
                             killed?  How is this heartless?
2005/7/7-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll, Reference/Law/Court] UID:38473 Activity:nil
7/7     Can someone with some more legal experience clue me in to why
        Berkeley theatres aren't open to anti-trust violations?  They
        actively try not to compete.  This is in my mind today because
        I intended to go see "Fantastic Four" tommorow, but it is not playing
        in any of the 6(?) local theatres.  The closest is like 20 blocks
        north.  -mrauser
        \_ Oh no, you might have to go all the way to OAKLAND
        \_ I like this quote from a "positive" review: "It's not great but it's
           not utter crap either." Which leaves room for being mostly crap.
           People should be more selective and not support shitty films.
           \_ I appreciate the extent to which you both have not answered
              my question at all.  And as for it being crap, I'm not supporting
              a shitty film, but a hot actress.  I still think there is
                                   \_ Mr. & Mrs Smith!  -John
                                      \_ Ug.  Miss Worm lips really turns
                                         me off.
              something very wrong about how berkeley theatres decide to show
              or not show movies. -mrauser
                 \- the answer to your question is indeed "drive to oakland".
                    you dont understand the basis of anti-trust. i dont think
                    "the motd" needs to give you a lecture on the framework.
                    years ago a roll of kodak film was $8.50 at the top of
                    the empire state bldg. the vendor there indeed had a
                    local monopoly. but clearly there was no public policy
                    reason to bring anti-trust action agaisnt him. a more
                    interesting challege might be to the "no bringing in your
                    own food" for ballparks [?] and movie theaters.
                    the FF movie might not have been offered to one of the
                    ass theaters in berkeley. --psb
              \_ Why don't you get the city to flex their ED might to put in
                 a 30 screen multiplex?  Seriously, just take the BART to
                 Eville.
        \_ Anti-trust has been gutted by 2 decades of neglect.
           \_ Dear vladimir, dear comrade, why do you hate Capitalism?
2005/7/7 [Uncategorized] UID:38474 Activity:nil
7/7     This is test.
2005/7/7-10 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Religion] UID:38478 Activity:nil
7/7     About time American Muslims made statements like this:
        http://www.ing.org/latestnews/default.asp?num=23
        \_ From the same site: "(San Francisco Bay Area, 9/11/01) - Joining
           Muslims around the country, the San Francisco Bay Area based Islamic
           Networks Group is appalled by and strongly condemns the terrorist
           attacks in New York and Washington."  The American Muslim community
           is simply not the problem.  As Thomas Friedman pointed out yesterday,
           however, we're still waiting for a fatwa from any international
           muslim leader condemning Bin Laden.
           \_ Further proof that even a broken clock (i.e., Friedman) can be
              right twice a day.
2005/7/7-12 [Uncategorized] UID:38479 Activity:nil
7/7     Is there a way to change the host name resolution order on MacOS X 10.3
        so that /etc/hosts is being used before netinfo (and dns)?
2005/7/7-12 [Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:38480 Activity:nil
7/7     Hello, I low-sided my motorcycle and the front fairing broke into
        pieces.  I tried to fix it instead of getting new ones since they're
        pretty expensive. I've put on fiber-glass cloth, bondo, and sanded
        it to the exact same shape it used to look like. Here is my question.
        Where do I get decent paint? Someone told me that auto paint shops
        actually do color matching for DIY spray paints, has anyone tried it?
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:July:07 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>